Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 18, 2021, 04:20:49 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

That would imply Orcs are real or that in my fantasy world Orcs are the equal of humans.

Now please tell us, to which human ethnicity you equate Orcs to?

It would only imply they are the same in the game (which they commonly are in more modern games).

Now please tell me what human ethnicity you equate RPG humans to?

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 04:56:47 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 18, 2021, 04:20:49 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

That would imply Orcs are real or that in my fantasy world Orcs are the equal of humans.

Now please tell us, to which human ethnicity you equate Orcs to?

It would only imply they are the same in the game (which they commonly are in more modern games).

Now please tell me what human ethnicity you equate RPG humans to?

Homo floresiensis.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 04:56:47 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 18, 2021, 04:20:49 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

That would imply Orcs are real or that in my fantasy world Orcs are the equal of humans.

Now please tell us, to which human ethnicity you equate Orcs to?

It would only imply they are the same in the game (which they commonly are in more modern games).

Now please tell me what human ethnicity you equate RPG humans to?

Thank God I don't play "modern" games.

Why good sir all of them, in RPGs every single human ethnicity (the only real ethnicity since animals are managed differently and fantasy "races" don't real) is represented even if you can't see it in your current location.

Quote from: Pat on April 18, 2021, 06:11:02 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 04:56:47 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 18, 2021, 04:20:49 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

That would imply Orcs are real or that in my fantasy world Orcs are the equal of humans.

Now please tell us, to which human ethnicity you equate Orcs to?

It would only imply they are the same in the game (which they commonly are in more modern games).

Now please tell me what human ethnicity you equate RPG humans to?

Homo floresiensis.

That's a good one.

Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And what do women universally do upon encountering dangerous, hostile creatures such as Rats, Slugs, Beetles, Wasps, Flies, Snakes, and Spiders?

They cry out to their men, "EWWW! KILL IT!"

But somehow, Human women wouldn't be crying out to their men to do the exact same thing to creatures such as Goblins and Orcs?

R-i-g-h-t.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 08:05:41 PM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And what do women universally do upon encountering dangerous, hostile creatures such as Rats, Slugs, Beetles, Wasps, Flies, Snakes, and Spiders?

They cry out to their men, "EWWW! KILL IT!"

But somehow, Human women wouldn't be crying out to their men to do the exact same thing to creatures such as Goblins and Orcs?

R-i-g-h-t.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'm confused. I thought orcs were black people. Now they're WASPs?

Quote from: Pat on April 18, 2021, 08:14:36 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 08:05:41 PM
Greetings!

Ahh, yes. And what do women universally do upon encountering dangerous, hostile creatures such as Rats, Slugs, Beetles, Wasps, Flies, Snakes, and Spiders?

They cry out to their men, "EWWW! KILL IT!"

But somehow, Human women wouldn't be crying out to their men to do the exact same thing to creatures such as Goblins and Orcs?

R-i-g-h-t.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'm confused. I thought orcs were black people. Now they're WASPs?

Black WASPs From Beyond.

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

There are a couple of sexist assumptions in your passage.

Firstly, do you really expect me to believe that the orcs were polite enough not to rape any of the men? (Men are vulnerable to rape too. Particularly during wartime. They always have been throughout history. The Ancient Greeks called it "the crime of Laius.")

Secondly, do you really expect me to believe none of the surviving women attempted to perform an abortion or infanticide on the demon-spawn? (Abortion has been known since ancient times, and so has infanticide.)

Thirdly, it's all fictional anyway. Orcs aren't real. There are no orcs running around in real life raping women, while politely leaving the men unspoiled, and forcing them to carry demon-spawn to term. That's purely a fantasy. A sick twisted fantasy that doesn't appeal to me in the least, because violence against women and sexual violence against people of all ages and sexes is already a public health crisis in real life.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 03:36:56 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Take your entire post and substitute "human" for "orc" and ask if it makes any difference.  Should humans be inherently evil?

It depends. Do humans in this hypothetical world regularly raid orc villages (or some other race) to murder people, take their stuff and brutally rape them? Cuz if that's the case, then humans in that hypothetical world would at least appear to be evil. Whether it's "inherent" or not (something that wasn't argued) is a different issue. But from the point of view of these orcs at least (or whatever race) humans would seem to be "evil".

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 10:42:30 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

There are a couple of sexist assumptions in your passage.

Firstly, do you really expect me to believe that the orcs were polite enough not to rape any of the men? (Men are vulnerable to rape too. Particularly during wartime. They always have been throughout history. The Ancient Greeks called it "the crime of Laius.")

Secondly, do you really expect me to believe none of the surviving women attempted to perform an abortion or infanticide on the demon-spawn? (Abortion has been known since ancient times, and so has infanticide.)

Thirdly, it's all fictional anyway. Orcs aren't real. There are no orcs running around in real life raping women, while politely leaving the men unspoiled, and forcing them to carry demon-spawn to term. That's purely a fantasy. A sick twisted fantasy that doesn't appeal to me in the least, because violence against women and sexual violence against people of all ages and sexes is already a public health crisis in real life.

Greetings!

BCT, have you forgotten to take your meds, bro?

Of course Orcs are not real. They are a fictional race of creatures that commonly exist in the game world. Most game worlds possess similar dynamics and characteristics as our own world. Hence, assuming a Ancient World/Medieval World milieu, Orcs can be assumed from their traits and attributes, etc, to behave in such violent, terrible ways. That includes brutalizing conquered peoples that get trampled under their brutal, iron hands.

Such a scenario dynamics seems quite realistic and appropriate to me.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 19, 2021, 12:04:37 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 10:42:30 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 18, 2021, 03:24:32 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2021, 01:15:46 PM

Quote from: DocJones on April 18, 2021, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 17, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
I don't think anybody here has ever actually played the orc village massacre scene that commonly appears in leftist blog posts on the subject. That's clearly a misleading caricature.

As a player, I've often come across villages that were massacred by orcs.  That's why we hate them.  They don't blog about that.

Just because some members of ethnic group X massacre villages of ethnic group Y doesn't mean all members of ethnic group X are mass murdering psychopaths.

It does if all members of ethnic group X encountered by ethnic group Y have been mass murdering psychopaths. Or at least, it would make it a reasonable assumption, which could lead to disastrous results of you assume otherwise.

QuoteAssuming such leads to a vicious cycle of ethnic cleansing.

We can only hope.

Greetings!

Exactly, my friend! Some of these intellectual, *moralizing* arguments seem so disconnected to me. It's like total ivory-tower garden delusion.

Imagine you living in a region, some village. For you entire life, for your father's entire life, for your grandfather's entire life--your area, the surrounding villages--have been raided by Orcs on a regular basis. The Orc warbands use your entire region as a supply of food, booty, and women to fuck and breed with. Yes, the Orcs typically capture people here and there, and roast them alive by bonfire and devour them in savage parties. Your sister, or your cousin, has given birth to half-Orc bastard offspring after being brutally raped. Your neighbors have suffered likewise. Your childhood friends, growing up with you--they all have shared similar experiences, just like yours.

Why should Orcs be treated with anything but extermination, fire, and wrath?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

There are a couple of sexist assumptions in your passage.

Firstly, do you really expect me to believe that the orcs were polite enough not to rape any of the men? (Men are vulnerable to rape too. Particularly during wartime. They always have been throughout history. The Ancient Greeks called it "the crime of Laius.")

Secondly, do you really expect me to believe none of the surviving women attempted to perform an abortion or infanticide on the demon-spawn? (Abortion has been known since ancient times, and so has infanticide.)

Thirdly, it's all fictional anyway. Orcs aren't real. There are no orcs running around in real life raping women, while politely leaving the men unspoiled, and forcing them to carry demon-spawn to term. That's purely a fantasy. A sick twisted fantasy that doesn't appeal to me in the least, because violence against women and sexual violence against people of all ages and sexes is already a public health crisis in real life.

Greetings!

BCT, have you forgotten to take your meds, bro?

Of course Orcs are not real. They are a fictional race of creatures that commonly exist in the game world. Most game worlds possess similar dynamics and characteristics as our own world. Hence, assuming a Ancient World/Medieval World milieu, Orcs can be assumed from their traits and attributes, etc, to behave in such violent, terrible ways. That includes brutalizing conquered peoples that get trampled under their brutal, iron hands.

Such a scenario dynamics seems quite realistic and appropriate to me.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I stopped taking anti-psychotics years ago. They were wrongly proscribed anyway. Also, I'm like super stressed all the time because I'm frustrated when know-nothings on the internet praise shit writing in fandoms that I used to like but can no longer associate with, but have no alternatives.

Okay. Thank you, but I play elf-games for escapism. Your idea of escapism might be a hellscape of sexual violence, and no judgment from me so to each their own, but for me my idea of escapism is to sanitize that sort of thing because I get too much of it in reality. So I only play games were orcs pop out of holes in the ground, like 13th Age. It's just so much easier for me.

It's not that I don't like evil races. My favorite race is the evil zerg from Starcraft. Well, more accurately I liked their earliest portrayal as inhuman yet still introspective monsters before the idiot lead writer Chris Metzen made their main character his girlfriend insert. I can't enjoy that fandom anymore because the fans are all fucking morons who worship the girlfriend insert and don't give a flying fuck about the actual zerg. I fucking hate it. I have no alternatives so I can't stop thinking about it even though thinking about makes me unhappy all the fucking time.

At least with D&D you have a huge and diverse fandom with a plethora of opinions so you never feel like you're alone in the universe.

I'm so fucking bitter and unhappy.

Honestly, this is all stupid circlejerking.

The Eberron setting specifically chunked all the 'always/usually' alignments, save for outsiders and a couple aberrations, for intelligent critters. There's nothing wrong with it so long as you're up front about it in your setting (now, whether it makes any sense is another matter entirely, but that's not my problem).

Go ahead and rewrite your orcs into a noble savage WoW/Elder Scrolls expy. More power to you. I don't mind. Nor should anyone else. The next guy over may have orcs be spawned from horrid pools of slime a la Warhammer/LOTR, though. Don't complain about him, unless it's completely stupid. But even then, realize you yourself may also be judged by your setting construction.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 19, 2021, 08:30:47 AMYour idea of escapism might be a hellscape of sexual violence,..., but... my idea of escapism is to sanitize that sort of thing because I get too much of it in reality.

Dude, where tha fuck do you live? The Congo?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 19, 2021, 08:30:47 AMI stopped taking anti-psychotics years ago. They were wrongly proscribed anyway. Also, I'm like super stressed all the time because I'm frustrated when know-nothings on the internet praise shit writing in fandoms that I used to like but can no longer associate with, but have no alternatives.

...

I'm so fucking bitter and unhappy.

You stress over the silliest shit. You're constantly fretting over the fact that people in the INTERNET like things you don't, and the world doesn't revolve around your personal preferences. True self-inflicted first world problems.

You're constantly complaining that people don't share your high-minded view of fiction, or your fragile mental state, where everything has to be fed to you in a sanitized form. And how writers have consistently failed to write the fiction YOU want, as is apparently their job. You worry about irrelevant shit too much, and look at everything through a exaggerated lens where everything has to be hyper-scrutinized and overthought, and any instance of something you find morally objectionable (based on a histrionic worldview) signifies the end of the world.

NO one in the western world lives in a "hellscape of sexual violence". We might be headed into a cyberpunk dystopia, but that's a different problem. I'm not gonna get rid of cyberpunk as a genre just because the Present is Dark and Cyberpunk.

Smoke some weed and try some emptiness meditation to purge yourself of these hyper-active thoughts before you hurt your brain.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 19, 2021, 11:22:15 AM
You stress over the silliest shit. You're constantly fretting over the fact that people in the INTERNET like things you don't, and the world doesn't revolve around your personal preferences. True self-inflicted first world problems.

wheredoyouthinkweare.png

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 19, 2021, 11:22:15 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 19, 2021, 08:30:47 AMYour idea of escapism might be a hellscape of sexual violence,..., but... my idea of escapism is to sanitize that sort of thing because I get too much of it in reality.

Dude, where tha fuck do you live? The Congo?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 19, 2021, 08:30:47 AMI stopped taking anti-psychotics years ago. They were wrongly proscribed anyway. Also, I'm like super stressed all the time because I'm frustrated when know-nothings on the internet praise shit writing in fandoms that I used to like but can no longer associate with, but have no alternatives.

...

I'm so fucking bitter and unhappy.

You stress over the silliest shit. You're constantly fretting over the fact that people in the INTERNET like things you don't, and the world doesn't revolve around your personal preferences. True self-inflicted first world problems.

You're constantly complaining that people don't share your high-minded view of fiction, or your fragile mental state, where everything has to be fed to you in a sanitized form. And how writers have consistently failed to write the fiction YOU want, as is apparently their job. You worry about irrelevant shit too much, and look at everything through a exaggerated lens where everything has to be hyper-scrutinized and overthought, and any instance of something you find morally objectionable (based on a histrionic worldview) signifies the end of the world.

NO one in the western world lives in a "hellscape of sexual violence". We might be headed into a cyberpunk dystopia, but that's a different problem. I'm not gonna get rid of cyberpunk as a genre just because the Present is Dark and Cyberpunk.

Smoke some weed and try some emptiness meditation to purge yourself of these hyper-active thoughts before you hurt your brain.

We live in a capitalist society. I should be able to find something that suits my tastes. I'm frustrated that I can't.

I know I sound entitled. I'm working on my own writing because I know nobody else will write what I'm looking for.

Happy?

You guys complain about SJWs all the time. I should be allowed to complain that one idiot writer fucked up an entire genre to the point that no one else tried to touch it since.

This isn't even about orcs anymore. Orcs are not on my list of things I find interesting unless it's an RTS where I can play orc conquistadors. Go and write some trashy orc rape porn, I dare you. I'm probably not going to read it, but I respect people's free speech rights to write what they want.