I know I'm not the only person who generally muses that Exalted's setting, Creation, is kind of interesting, but the whole thing is spoiled by the Exalted themselves.
Well in the Time of Glory, before the Primordial War and Exalted were even thought of, just such a setting existed. Humanity is ruled over by the Dragon Kings (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Dragon_Kings), humanoid dinosaurs with superpowers (and perfect reincarnation) who were given their stewardship by the gods. They worshipped the sun with great temples and Aztec-style sacrifices of humans.
I'm imagining this gradual slide towards the Primordial War, where the gods and elementals are chafing at their bonds and making moves towards the war. That includes sending their half-divine children as agents of chaos, sowing dischord and encouraging the human population to rebel, along with acting as emissaries recruiting others to the cause.
Basically it's an excuse to play and focus on all the stuff that is usually all but ignored - Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk, Heroic and Enlightened Mortals, God-Blooded, spirits and Fae. There's no demons or unquiet dead, since neither of those things exist yet.
It lacks all the accretion of magitech and bizarre transhumanism that developed over the line, since none of that stuff exists yet. There's a bit more focus of themes, rather than seven different types of super-people each thinking the world is run for their benefit.
Not the thread people might have been expecting, eh?
Quote from: Kiero;597978I know I'm not the only person who generally muses that Exalted's setting, Creation, is kind of interesting, but the whole thing is spoiled by the Exalted themselves.
Well in the Time of Glory, before the Primordial War and Exalted were even thought of, just such a setting existed. Humanity is ruled over by the Dragon Kings (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Dragon_Kings), humanoid dinosaurs with superpowers (and perfect reincarnation) who were given their stewardship by the gods. They worshipped the sun with great temples and Aztec-style sacrifices of humans.
I'm imagining this gradual slide towards the Primordial War, where the gods and elementals are chafing at their bonds and making moves towards the war. That includes sending their half-divine children as agents of chaos, sowing dischord and encouraging the human population to rebel, along with acting as emissaries recruiting others to the cause.
Basically it's an excuse to play and focus on all the stuff that is usually all but ignored - Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk, Heroic and Enlightened Mortals, God-Blooded, spirits and Fae. There's no demons or unquiet dead, since neither of those things exist yet.
It lacks all the accretion of magitech and bizarre transhumanism that developed over the line, since none of that stuff exists yet. There's a bit more focus of themes, rather than seven different types of super-people each thinking the world is run for their benefit.
Not the thread people might have been expecting, eh?
I ran a 1e game set in the Second Age that focused wholly on God-bloods and Heroic Mortals and the odd Outcaste, eschewing all of the First Age cruft and the more powerful Exalted as anything other than powerful, Howardian or Moorcockian demonic threats, and had a rollicking time. It was effectively a wuxia sword & sorcery game. I had some actual play writeups at RPG.net under the heading "Pendragon-Blooded," I think, because I introduced Pendragon's annual play framework to the whole thing, as well as a bit of a savage, David-Drakean Arthurian vibe.
Good luck! I had fun with it.
Quote from: Future Villain Band;597982I ran a 1e game set in the Second Age that focused wholly on God-bloods and Heroic Mortals and the odd Outcaste, eschewing all of the First Age cruft and the more powerful Exalted as anything other than powerful, Howardian or Moorcockian demonic threats, and had a rollicking time. It was effectively a wuxia sword & sorcery game. I had some actual play writeups at RPG.net under the heading "Pendragon-Blooded," I think, because I introduced Pendragon's annual play framework to the whole thing, as well as a bit of a savage, David-Drakean Arthurian vibe.
Good luck! I had fun with it.
That sounds awesome, is this the AP thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?123372-Actual-Play-PenDragon-Blooded-Actual-Play)?
In a similar sort of vein, I've actually sold my group on a God-Blooded game as a trial for Qwixalted. I think this premise might be a bit too far out there for them, but it might be a good one to trial Exalted 3rd edition.
Quote from: Kiero;597994That sounds awesome, is this the AP thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?123372-Actual-Play-PenDragon-Blooded-Actual-Play)?
In a similar sort of vein, I've actually sold my group on a God-Blooded game as a trial for Qwixalted. I think this premise might be a bit too far out there for them, but it might be a good one to trial Exalted 3rd edition.
That's one of the threads -- there were three or four more, I think. It was one of my better games.
So are you enjoying your visit to my little corner of the gaming world? What was it you used to call us over here again?
RPGPundit
Who cares? The thread is interesting.
Kiero - does your idea cover pre-War Exalts? From my understanding, the Exalted were introduced as helpers to the Incarna, and largely ignored by the Primordials until it was too late.
Quote from: RPGPundit;598604So are you enjoying your visit to my little corner of the gaming world?
It's be surprisingly productive, all things considered.
I'd had a login here for the longest time and forgot I even had it until recently.
Quote from: RPGPundit;598604What was it you used to call us over here again?
RPGPundit
I honestly don't even remember.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;598611Who cares? The thread is interesting.
Kiero - does your idea cover pre-War Exalts? From my understanding, the Exalted were introduced as helpers to the Incarna, and largely ignored by the Primordials until it was too late.
It assumes no Exalts of any kind, so not even experimental Incarnae-helpers. It's intentionally and deliberately designed to cut them out of the setting. Both to simplify things, and focus the themes a lot.
Basically no one but some of the more powerful gods (and Fae) have anything on the Dragon Kings and Jadeborn, and if you play a human you've got to be clever (and Enlightened or at a stretch, God-Blooded).
I have wanted to run Ruins of Rathess with a heroic mortals group for such a long time. No need to travel back in time to do this IMO. It just screams to me "Red Nails" style pulp sword and sorcery. I love the idea of heroic mortals swaying the various powerful factions against each other for their own advantage :D
Quote from: Skywalker;598720I have wanted to run Ruins of Rathess with a heroic mortals group for such a long time. No need to travel back in time to do this IMO. It just screams to me "Red Nails" style pulp sword and sorcery. I love the idea of heroic mortals swaying the various powerful factions against each other for their own advantage :D
On that note, I've always wanted to do guardians of the Wall in a Whitewall game, heavily influenced by Sean Stewart's The Night Watch (http://www.amazon.com/Night-Watch-Sean-Stewart/dp/0441004458/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0), which was listed as one of the original inspirations of the game.
Quote from: Kiero;598707It's be surprisingly productive, all things considered.
The question was actually meant to be for FVB, but I guess it applies to you too.
RPGPundit
A kernel of another premise goes like this. You have a Raptok philosopher, sociologist, anthropologist and thaumaturge, think a Dragon King version of Diane Fossey, who looks at humans the way Fossey did great apes. Viewed as a "lesser" species but worthy of study and being given more thought than is usual. Spends time travelling amongst the barbarians outside of civilisation to aid her study.
She suffers some sort of upset that causes her to be denounced, and rather than defend herself in the traditional duels and possibly die and interrupt her research, she flees to the margins with her trusted servants. She brings with her an advanced understanding of thaumaturgy, a grounding in Terrestrial Martial Arts and experience of teaching both to humans. Finding a tribe who were previously friendly to her, she begins her own bit of social engineering teaching what she knows and being venerated as a wise elder by the people.
There you have the PCs, a mixture of her original servants and barbarians who've been enhanced with thaumaturgy and (for those who are Enlightened) TMA as well. Where you go from that point depends on the players.
Quote from: Exalted WikiBecause there was a set population of Dragon Kings (about 150 million) and the Primordials (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Primordial) desired more servants, humanity was created and put under the charge of the Dragon Kings.
That initially struck me as being pretty wacky, I guess that's because since all the Dragon Kings are reincarnated there's a limited number of souls to go around?
It seems like they need an employee benefits program for their human slaves, where if you're sacrificed to the Sun you get promoted to be a Dragon King in the next life.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;600610That initially struck me as being pretty wacky, I guess that's because since all the Dragon Kings are reincarnated there's a limited number of souls to go around?
It seems like they need an employee benefits program for their human slaves, where if you're sacrificed to the Sun you get promoted to be a Dragon King in the next life.
Well, humans aren't a part of Dragon King reincarnation - once a Dragon King always a Dragon King. Their souls aren't property reincarnated until they leave their initial savage phase, so I guess that acts as a control to prevent there being any waiting around to be taken up.
Human slaves/servants always stay humans. Because Exalted is unfair like that.
Quote from: Kiero;600628Human slaves/servants always stay humans. Because Exalted is unfair like that.
If the premise didn't depend on certain people just being BORN special, it wouldn't be a white wolf game! What, you want a game where the great artistes are no better than the "unwashed masses" they revile? Or worse, one where the premise is that what you DO is what makes you special, not just what you are or pretentiously imagine you are??
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;600713If the premise didn't depend on certain people just being BORN special, it wouldn't be a white wolf game! What, you want a game where the great artistes are no better than the "unwashed masses" they revile? Or worse, one where the premise is that what you DO is what makes you special, not just what you are or pretentiously imagine you are??
RPGPundit
Ironically, this particular premise is counter to that theme of Exalted, since they don't exist. Mortals with Enlightenment have (usually) had to claw their way up through grit, determination and skill. They weren't born with their power, it wasn't gifted by some external process/god that decided they were awesome enough, they took it.
It remains, however, a fundamentally unfair setting.
Quote from: Kiero;600756Ironically, this particular premise is counter to that theme of Exalted, since they don't exist. Mortals with Enlightenment have (usually) had to claw their way up through grit, determination and skill. They weren't born with their power, it wasn't gifted by some external process/god that decided they were awesome enough, they took it.
It remains, however, a fundamentally unfair setting.
The most talented ordinary people in a WW game are still tremendously less special than the most basic pc-level Special People. The option to play mortals is an afterthought; the main focus of the game is on the Chosen Ones.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;600960The most talented ordinary people in a WW game are still tremendously less special than the most basic pc-level Special People. The option to play mortals is an afterthought; the main focus of the game is on the Chosen Ones.
Speak for your gaming table. We had a blast playing mortals in the oWoD.
Quote from: RPGPundit;600713If the premise didn't depend on certain people just being BORN special, it wouldn't be a white wolf game! What, you want a game where the great artistes are no better than the "unwashed masses" they revile? Or worse, one where the premise is that what you DO is what makes you special, not just what you are or pretentiously imagine you are??
RPGPundit
Hey Pundit, your jealousy is showing.
Seriously, Exalted is tradder than trad can be, aside from the stunt mechanic.
Back to Exalted, actually, anyone can become an Exalt, if they fulfill the right conditions at the right time, except for Sidereals and Dragon Blooded. Solars have to show great heroism, Lunars survive at all costs Alchemicals are made by their city states,Infernals are those who could have been heroic but are instead offered an infernal bargain, Abyssals are folks who are offered a devil's deal to the forces of Oblivion.
So, read and play the damned game before making a judgement. The action isn't terribly different than what you'd find in a retroclone.
And - Exalts are chosen by the programming in the shards from the unwashed masses. The gods have nothing to do with the process.
EDIT - Sidereals are pre-destined to get their Exaltations, and Dragoblooded inherit theirs. But DBs are kind of the heavies for a typical Solar game. One of the reasons that DBs hate Solars is that any poltroon can do an act of great heroism and earn power that's greater than what they will ever have, without any breeding or lineage!
Quote from: RPGPundit;600960The most talented ordinary people in a WW game are still tremendously less special than the most basic pc-level Special People. The option to play mortals is an afterthought; the main focus of the game is on the Chosen Ones.
RPGPundit
Exalted's awful system actually functions with heroic mortal characters (which are covered in the corebook as a starting option). While the main focus is the "special ones", exceptional but otherwise mortal characters are supported in Exalted.
Quote from: RPGPundit;600960The most talented ordinary people in a WW game are still tremendously less special than the most basic pc-level Special People. The option to play mortals is an afterthought; the main focus of the game is on the Chosen Ones.
So? :confused:
Do you have a problem with an RPG that focusses on the PCs being demi-gods? Or that such an RPG also has rules for PCs being just mortals?
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;600964Hey Pundit, your jealousy is showing.
Seriously, Exalted is tradder than trad can be, aside from the stunt mechanic.
I have never said it wasn't. Mechanically speaking, Exalted (like all WW's main games) is absolutely in every sense a regular RPG, and has nothing actually new in it to justify the pretentious claims that its a superior kind of RPG.
QuoteBack to Exalted, actually, anyone can become an Exalt, if they fulfill the right conditions at the right time, except for Sidereals and Dragon Blooded. Solars have to show great heroism, Lunars survive at all costs Alchemicals are made by their city states,Infernals are those who could have been heroic but are instead offered an infernal bargain, Abyssals are folks who are offered a devil's deal to the forces of Oblivion.
Except that not anyone can become an Exalt. You have to have the pre-existing condition of being the soul of an exalt to be one; obviously all the PCs are that, but someone else, a mere mortal, could be just as heroic and only end up dying a grisly death for their troubles.
QuoteEDIT - Sidereals are pre-destined to get their Exaltations, and Dragoblooded inherit theirs. But DBs are kind of the heavies for a typical Solar game. One of the reasons that DBs hate Solars is that any poltroon can do an act of great heroism and earn power that's greater than what they will ever have, without any breeding or lineage!
But again, ONLY because they're CHOSEN to be that. That's why the dragon-blooded are desperately running around trying to hunt down the solars and lock up their "spirits" or whatever, so they can't just rebirth into some other mortal frame.
Or did I read the book wrong?
RPGPundit
Quote from: Skywalker;600976So? :confused:
Do you have a problem with an RPG that focusses on the PCs being demi-gods? Or that such an RPG also has rules for PCs being just mortals?
Not really either, in fact, on its own. Otherwise I wouldn't be a fan of Amber or have written Lords of Olympus.
Its when that's one feature of an overall mentality that appears throughout WW's product line, of this kind of pretentiousness of being the inherently special artist, and that you're playing a game that's meant to be a metaphor for your own tortured life of having your greatness persecuted and misunderstood (and said greatness being something you think you should be recognized for not by some kind of merit but just because you're a self-declared elite), and how much better you are than the "unwashed masses" that play other RPGs (again, this from WHITE WOLF's OWN WORDS, not just something I'm saying) for using the rpg medium to create some great work of art or literature, rather than just "roll-playing" (again, their words, not mine).
That's what pisses me off about them, that they're Swine. The particular way Exalted does it is just a symptom; its in some ways the funniest example of all WW's stable, because it clearly at the same time was made for all the WW-swine who were getting bored of playing angsty goth-vampires and were looking enviously over at those of us "unwashed masses" having fun playing epic D&D, but couldn't lower themselves to admit that's what they wanted to be doing too. So Exalted is the equivalent of the "art film" that's actually just pornography with a thin veneer of pseudo-artistry, for people who think they're above looking at normal porn.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;601244Not really either, in fact, on its own. Otherwise I wouldn't be a fan of Amber or have written Lords of Olympus.
So, your post pretty much has nothing to do with this thread, right? Its just a threadcrap against WW.
Do you mind moving on now you got it out of your system?
Quote from: RPGPundit;601239Except that not anyone can become an Exalt. You have to have the pre-existing condition of being the soul of an exalt to be one; obviously all the PCs are that, but someone else, a mere mortal, could be just as heroic and only end up dying a grisly death for their troubles.
But again, ONLY because they're CHOSEN to be that. That's why the dragon-blooded are desperately running around trying to hunt down the solars and lock up their "spirits" or whatever, so they can't just rebirth into some other mortal frame.
Or did I read the book wrong?
RPGPundit
You read the book wrong.
Exaltation is something that attaches itself to a mortal soul, in their original creation they were a divine power welded to that of an otherwise ordinary human. The gods couldn't act directly against their Primordial creators (a magical geas preventing them doing so), so they slapped a load of supernatural power on humans - something the Primordials didn't even notice they considered them so insignificant.
Exaltations seek out exceptional people, but those people aren't pre-ordained to Exalt at all. That's why it was possible to lock away the Solar Exaltations, because they are something separated from the soul in death and have to find a new carrier in order to be reborn.
In the case of Dragonblooded, it's slightly different because their specialness is hereditary. But even with the right genes it's still only the most exceptional who Exalt.
@Pundit:
You read the book wrong.
Most kinds of exalted "reincarnate" by glomming onto some guy who already has his own life. The different types of exaltations look for different things, but they all attach to people who are already out doing stuff.
Solar exaltations are looking for great deeds (or something). Maybe you're Admiral Nimitz, and your flagship has just come under fire: suddenly you're shinier and also have vague memories of being Admiral Nelson. But you're just as likely to be Seaman Schmuckatelli, desperately repelling a boarding action, and suddenly you're shinier and have Nelson's memories. Under no circumstances are you born shiny and grumpy.
There are two semi-exceptions: terrestrial exaltation is hereditary, but not guaranteed (like porphyria). They are the high-power mooks of the exalted world. Sidereals cheat. Nominally, they follow the same rules as solar exalted, but they arrange fate to put pre-groomed candidates in those situations.
Aside from those exceptions though, Exalted all start out as the unwashed masses.
But you aren't playing the ordinary people; you're playing the immortal solar chunks or whatever. So on top of everything else, you're basically otherkin...
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;601472But you aren't playing the ordinary people; you're playing the immortal solar chunks or whatever. So on top of everything else, you're basically otherkin...
RPGPundit
You're both. When you Exalt (which usually happens in adulthood), you don't become a different person, the shard doesn't overwrite your original life and memories with that of some dead historical person. But you also gain access to knowledge and memories of that historical person. You're an (exceptional) ordinary person with access to an immortal Exalted chunk.
Oh wow, Pundit didn't read Exalted and decided to hate it all the same. Who woulda thunk? :rolleyes:
There are lots of good reasons to dislike Exalted (I have a few of my own), and Pundejo has yet to produce one.
Really, he used to be better at this.
Quote from: RPGPundit;601472But you aren't playing the ordinary people; you're playing the immortal solar chunks or whatever. So on top of everything else, you're basically otherkin...
Unlike Greek demigods who have a divine parent and are actually not ordinary mortals, Exalted are mortals with a shard of divine essence placed in them. All the memories, personality and identity are that mortal remain after Exaltation. In fact, how that mortal from the unwashed masses deals with the divine power suddenly granted to them is one of the central questions posed by the RPG.
Quote from: RPGPundit;601472But you aren't playing the ordinary people; you're playing the immortal solar chunks or whatever. So on top of everything else, you're basically otherkin...
RPGPundit
To be fair, if you're playing AD&D and your Elf Fighter/Magic-User dies and a Druid casts reincarnate and they come back as a Human you're playing an otherkin.