Anybody heard about this? (https://www.levelup5e.com/) EN publishing is making a D&D 5e remake effectively.
EN publishing has made some pretty great adventures and despite not being popular, I think their ship combat system is one of the best I have ever read.
The ideas into their changes are pretty solid (unless you want pure mechanical minimalism I suppose), and it seems designwork motivated by actual ideas instead of nostalgia (Fireball isn't 10d6 for no reason except muh nostalgia). And I generally dislike 5e (almost all of it) but with design chops it could be reworked into something I could actually call my 2nd favorite edition.
On the other hand priorities: "DIVERSITY. DEPTH. CHOICE.".......Im not sure how much diversity or what kind their talking about. In some ways it feels almost like a pre-emptive placation.
They are trying to be the next Paizo and publish the next Pathfinder.
Quote from: RandyB on October 20, 2021, 08:30:08 PM
They are trying to be the next Paizo and publish the next Pathfinder.
This is proving to be much more of a rework then what Pathfinder did.
My guess is that EN likes to make adventures with options for player interaction. Burning Sky was a 'all parts of the animal' for 3e and 'Zietgiest' was 'all parts of the animal' for 4e. But 5e is so threadbare that it would require a complete rework for the sequel adventure they have planned.
I'm glad to hear that someone is reworking 5E for release. I like the idea of that.
That doesn't mean that I'll like what they do with it. I am curious, though.
I'm interested too. I like parts of 5e, and think it could be really good if reworked, and not in WotC hands.
I wonder if their ideas of how, will be like mine....
On the surface of 5e Level Up a lot of the adaptations En Publishing is doing look good. There is a LOT of focus on filling in the Exploration gaps of 5e by giving every class more non-combat game abilities while still keeping the combat stuff the classes already have. Then you get to some of the class name changes, like the Monk renamed the Adept, which the writers are doing specifically to get away from any kind of "cultural" assumprions.
The art production looks great. But it is a woke left leaning publisher. Daniel Kwan is one of the many additional writers on the project, and his name makes this an instant no-go for me.
"Adept" is a better (maybe not great) name for the class since you can fit a bunch of stuff in it that has nothing to do with a monastery. One of the subclasses is still a life force charged "warrior monk" along with the toughness focused Brawler and the raw physical Exalted Athlete.
That said, it is throwing into sharp relief why I am getting sick of modern D&D, which is the focus on building effective characters with a bunch of abilities that may or may not do what they say on the tin.
There are already people doing mathalympics trying to figure out what is a good value for an ability and what is trash and... fuck, I am just tired of all that.
Their goals seem good and all, but damnit there is so much bitching and whining about what +x should go where.
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
Quote from: Zelen on October 21, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
Correct, it's perfect for a Pulp game set in modern-ish times, anything from the 30's to now if you can manage to make now feel Pulp.
Quote from: Zelen on October 21, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
If you want a grounded European appropriate setting then just have Fighters and Thieves.
Some of those people can wear dresses and pretend to cast spells.
Done.
Quote from: Shasarak on October 21, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Zelen on October 21, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
If you want a grounded European appropriate setting then just have Fighters and Thieves.
Some of those people can wear dresses and pretend to cast spells.
Done.
At some point, you can add Clerics. They might stretch those last folks on the rack to obtain confessions.
Quote from: Shasarak on October 21, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Zelen on October 21, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
If you want a grounded European appropriate setting then just have Fighters and Thieves.
Some of those people can wear dresses and pretend to cast spells.
Done.
Mild attempt at reading comprehension or not-strawmanning would be good.
Quote from: DM_Curt on October 21, 2021, 07:20:54 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on October 21, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Zelen on October 21, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
If you want a grounded European appropriate setting then just have Fighters and Thieves.
Some of those people can wear dresses and pretend to cast spells.
Done.
At some point, you can add Clerics. They might stretch those last folks on the rack to obtain confessions.
I believe I covered Clerics in the post you quoted.
Quote from: Shasarak on October 21, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Zelen on October 21, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
I've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
It's always been weird & annoying having a common word like "Monk" being repurposed into meaning, "Superman-like setting-inappropriate unarmed martial artist." I expect this kind of class in Rokugan, or whatever, not D&D's default/implied setting.
If you want a grounded European appropriate setting then just have Fighters and Thieves.
Some of those people can wear dresses and pretend to cast spells.
Done.
Fighters & Thieves, the RPG.
Quote from: Jam The MF on October 21, 2021, 09:00:47 PMFighters & Thieves, the RPG.
Fighter is too much a generic term. Thug is better.
Thugs & Thieves - The RPG
Features:
- In-depth intimidation rules, with a called shots table for limbs you threaten to break
- Elaborate mechanics for avoiding the law.
- Or play AS the law, collect treasure to level up by entering the lairs of tax dodgers and then throwing them in dungeons
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on October 22, 2021, 09:12:18 AM
Quote from: Jam The MF on October 21, 2021, 09:00:47 PMFighters & Thieves, the RPG.
Fighter is too much a generic term. Thug is better.
Thugs & Thieves - The RPG
Features:
- In-depth intimidation rules, with a called shots table for limbs you threaten to break
- Elaborate mechanics for avoiding the law.
- Or play AS the law, collect treasure to level up by entering the lairs of tax dodgers and then throwing them in dungeons
With forward by former WWF legend Irwin R. Shiester.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on October 22, 2021, 09:12:18 AM
Quote from: Jam The MF on October 21, 2021, 09:00:47 PMFighters & Thieves, the RPG.
Fighter is too much a generic term. Thug is better.
Thugs & Thieves - The RPG
Features:
- In-depth intimidation rules, with a called shots table for limbs you threaten to break
- Elaborate mechanics for avoiding the law.
- Or play AS the law, collect treasure to level up by entering the lairs of tax dodgers and then throwing them in dungeons
Kickstarter when?
QuoteI've always disliked the "Monk" class, both from a mechanics perspective and from a flavor perspective. Most of D&D fits a fairly generic setting grounded in European myth and Sword & Sorcery stories, and then out of the blue we get ... Hong Kong Kung Fu inspired characters?
And that's per se - very good thing. As D&D is not Authentic Medieval Experience but instead pulpy mix of kitchen-sinking and always been.
And just like in father of pulpy sword and sorcery Conan - exotic bullshit is expected only bit less then Eurocentric bullshit. And that's fine.
Quote"Adept" is a better (maybe not great) name for the class since you can fit a bunch of stuff in it that has nothing to do with a monastery. One of the subclasses is still a life force charged "warrior monk" along with the toughness focused Brawler and the raw physical Exalted Athlete.
In wider context. In context of D&D being its own thing and terminology it's unecessary virtue signalling. And they did it only due to Asian origin of monk, other classes with different cultural root but European like druids, bards or paladins, they do not care. And justly so - because after 50 years D&D druid and paladin are their own thing.
QuoteI believe I covered Clerics in the post you quoted.
I'm a devout Catholic, but damn that was funny.
Fighter is too much a generic term. Thug is better.
QuoteThugs & Thieves - The RPG
Features:
In-depth intimidation rules, with a called shots table for limbs you threaten to break
Elaborate mechanics for avoiding the law.
Or play AS the law, collect treasure to level up by entering the lairs of tax dodgers and then throwing them in dungeons
Thugs is also historically wrong term - it's new in English based on suposed sect of Hindu outlaw Kali worshippers. So find better word.
I'd say just Thieves is fine.