Add your own of course.
Both Qin and Hollow Earth Expeditions have some great pregens in the book, fully statted, with brief but relevant backgrounds and nice pictures of the characters.
Neither has these for download on their sites, well, HEX has two or three of them but not the whole bunch.
And that would be really handy, because having them in the book is fine but I'd really like just to print them off and hand them to the players, so we can give the game a spin swiftly without going through chargen for the first session.
It wouldn't be hard to do, in both cases you'd still need the book for play, but it would make my life much easier as a GM.
So, what easy things would you like to see companies do?
I guess it may not be that easy considering how poorly some RPGs have done it, but I want an accurate and comprehensive index in my books. RPGs are a kind of technical manual and to not have any kind of organization outside of the Contents and the actual layout is a sin.
I'd like to see better development and editorial direction (Mongoose, I am looking at you!!) but I don't think that's easy at all on the money that they have (they recently advertised for an editor/developer for £16k - I am a fairly junior chap working as a proof/reader editor for an investment-based wotsit and make nearly three times that. Even in trade publishing the pay isn't that rank - £16k is entry level doofus who will fuck everything up for two years).
Er, sorry about that. Anyway... my list is mostly the usual suspects.
* Sample adventure in every game. And every game to be designed with the aim of getting you to play as quick as poss, not getting you to consider and mull over every fucking option - plus pre-gens, as you say Balbinus).
* Mechanical crib sheets - summary at the end of each chapter (Burning Wheel style) or appendix (HeroQuest style).
* Index, character sheet, decent sub-head organisation to assist navigation (M&M is fantastic in this regard).
* Cheap/free player's guide (like the HeroQuest Player's Book). Maybe a player's guide chapter with permission to photcopy.
Umm...
Ned
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyI'd like to see better development and editorial direction (Mongoose, I am looking at you!!) but I don't think that's easy at all on the money that they have (they recently advertised for an editor/developer for £16k - I am a fairly junior chap working as a proof/reader editor for an investment-based wotsit and make nearly three times that. Even in trade publishing the pay isn't that rank - £16k is entry level doofus who will fuck everything up for two years).
Er, sorry about that. Anyway... my list is mostly the usual suspects.
* Sample adventure in every game. And every game to be designed with the aim of getting you to play as quick as poss, not getting you to consider and mull over every fucking option - plus pre-gens, as you say Balbinus).
* Mechanical crib sheets - summary at the end of each chapter (Burning Wheel style) or appendix (HeroQuest style).
* Index, character sheet, decent sub-head organisation to assist navigation (M&M is fantastic in this regard).
* Cheap/free player's guide (like the HeroQuest Player's Book). Maybe a player's guide chapter with permission to photcopy.
Umm...
Ned
Good list. And if not a player's guide, definitely quick-start rules (when applicable) available as a download. (Troll Lord Games were handing out C&C quick-play guides at Gen Con a few years ago--I'd love to get my hands on some of the print copies for my new campaign, but evidently it will be going up on site in a few months anyways).
Concrete examples of play, with the numbers, just to show a newbie (or someone confused by unclear prose) how the rules work in practice. Runequest 1st and 2nd editions had "Rurik's Saga", IMO the best example of play ever. Tunnels and Trolls 5th edition also shone in this department.
Quote from: Zachary The FirstGood list. And if not a player's guide, definitely quick-start rules (when applicable) available as a download. (Troll Lord Games were handing out C&C quick-play guides at Gen Con a few years ago--I'd love to get my hands on some of the print copies for my new campaign, but evidently it will be going up on site in a few months anyways).
A lot of people DL the free StarCluster Light to use as player guides. I can tell because they DL the Light game after buying the full game pdf.
-clash
Cheap entry point games. Though I'll give ICE cudos. HARP Lite is 100 pages and free. That's what I'm talking about.
Cheap entry point is a good one. At the very least one purchase (regardless of price) should be enough for PLENTY of play (yes, I'm think of M*ng**s* again and their MRQ). If I buy a £30 hardback, I don't expect to buy another book for at least a half a dozen sessions (possibly ever), and I expect that other book to be condiment, not main course.
Unfortunately, that's not the business plan.
Ned
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyI am a fairly junior chap working as a proof/reader editor for an investment-based wotsit and make nearly three times that. Even in trade publishing the pay isn't that rank - £16k is entry level doofus who will fuck everything up for two years).
My GF is in publishing and gets that much but she's essentially a glorified data-entry clerk for a music directory. £16k for someone with skills is just ridiculous. £16k is what you'd pay a completely unskilled graduate.
Is it any wonder that RPG companies turn out shit? and that's without touching on the pay for freelancers. When professional dead tree publishers pay their freelancers less than free websites then there's a problem.
Back when I was freelance ('03) Mongoose were paying £1/page of typescript (approx 350 words) for copy editing (they called it proof reading, even though it was reading the manuscript not the fucking proof, but whatever).
To make that worth while, one had to manage AT LEAST ten pages an hour. £15 an hour would have been a decent freelance rate (outside of RPGs, I wouldn't accept anything less than £20/hour but I tended to be doing more complex stuff than proofing). That manuscript needed much more work than £1 a page was going to pay me. They were paying "fix the typos" money, when they should have been paying "re-write this gibberish" money.
I did one book before I was sucked back in by the investment industry, thank God. On the plus side, I used one of the character builds from that book in our next D&D game - ah, O'Grady!
Ned
EDIT: Actually, in their defence it'll be their margins that dictate the shitty pay. I'd say only WotC and WW have career publishers on staff, rather than enthusiasts. Still, Green Ronin also produce fantastic books - I was massively impressed with the whole Mutants & Masterminds line.
Id like to see consistent usage of gaming terms throughout the introduction, especially when introducing new ideas and concepts.
Rounds, Turns, Phases, Slices, Action Points etc.... I think you get the idea.
Stats, Attributes, Talents, make clear definitions of what you are trying to convey.
Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey* Sample adventure in every game. And every game to be designed with the aim of getting you to play as quick as poss, not getting you to consider and mull over every fucking option - plus pre-gens, as you say Balbinus).
Check.
Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey* Mechanical crib sheets - summary at the end of each chapter (Burning Wheel style) or appendix (HeroQuest style).
Check. Although we do it on our character sheets. Easy ref during play and in char gen.
Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey* Index, character sheet, decent sub-head organisation to assist navigation (M&M is fantastic in this regard).
Check. Although I need to work on the sub-heading in the index layout. It all kind of blurs right now.
Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey* Cheap/free player's guide (like the HeroQuest Player's Book). Maybe a player's guide chapter with permission to photcopy.
Check. Our ISCR is the core rules for free download all over the place.
My personal biggies are:
-Step by Step clear char gen. All too often you do not have an up front x step procedure for creating a character. I can read the setting information to get a clear idea of what will fit but give me the mechanics that allow me to step through and at the end have a character.
- Indexing as noted and with many of the same caveats.
- Cross Referencing. If you can't do it well, don't do it. If you can, then it is a big plus for me.
Just some of mine.
Bill
Way, way back in the day, games like Traveller and Runequest had supplements which consisted entirely of page after page of pregenerated NPC stats. Not particularly good value if you had to buy them separately, but if they came as part of a package (like Far Future's Traveller Supplements reprint, or the Runequest 2nd Edition boxed set) they're absolute gold. When I'm starting to GM a system, I'm going to be a little rusty until I've got used to it; as such, I love being able to grab some stats for typical bandits/space pirates/ducks/whatever and throwing them at the players, since while I could just write down a bunch of stats on the spur of the moment they might not be especially well thought through.
Furthermore, some game systems require a lot of work to create characters. Even if you just scribble down the attributes and stuff rather than rolling them, if you care at all about your NPCs being "legal", the process of checking might take a while. The higher the barrier to coming up with NPC stats on the spot is, the greater the temptation to railroad, because as a GM you'll end up trying to avoid situations where the PCs fight or interact with people you weren't expecting them to.
So, game companies, please consider printing a page or two of quick and dirty NPC stats in your core rulebooks, or perhaps to fill up space in a supplement (Contested Ground did this at the back of the Lostfinder's Guide to Mire End for the A|State game.) Or at the very least, give me an NPC generation system which lets me produce lots of NPCs in a short period of time. Say what you like about Dogs In the Vineyard, it does have an excellent system for cranking out dozens of NPCs at the back of the book.
Alternately, if there's a program on your website I can download to churn out NPC stats quickly and easily that's gold.
Honestly, I've always liked Afterwords -- something direct, heartfelt and perhaps even a little cheesy from the author, creative director, editor-in-chief or whomever who can wrap up the book, say something pithy and nudge you out the door to adventure. I realize pages are money and recognize the need to cram every page with content, but they don't even have to be a full page, a couple of paragraphs will do. I don't read RPG books from front cover to back cover but I do feel a very slight twinge of dissapointment when you get to the last page of material...and that's it.
The last RPG book I've read that had something like that was Allen Varney's Paranoia XP. It wasn't the last page of the book, but it was still appreciated :)
The Hex guys saw my equivalent thread on rpg.net, and posted up all their pregens.
http://www.exilegames.com/downloads/hex_characters.pdf?bcsi_scan_4768CB94A8A496D0=0&bcsi_scan_filename=hex_characters.pdf
The Hex guys rock on toast.
Quote from: BalbinusThe Hex guys rock on toast.
Thanks for posting the link, Balbinus. I hadn't gotten over here to do it myself until now.
Also, thanks for bringing up that little oversight. I'm happy to fix those things whenever possible.
Jeff Combos
Exile Game Studio
//www.exilegames.com
Sample adventures don't really work for me, as a consumer or a writer. They're restrictive, don't get used very often and eat up space in the book. Maybe seperately as a download or something.
Quote from: David JohansenCheap entry point games. Though I'll give ICE cudos. HARP Lite is 100 pages and free. That's what I'm talking about.
Yes. A thousand times,
yes. Games with fat-ass quick starts (e.g., HARP, The Riddle of Steel) or a self-contained, one book, rule set with a small sticker price (e.g., C&C) are very attractive to hobby newcomers.
Quote from: GRIMSample adventures don't really work for me, as a consumer or a writer. They're restrictive, don't get used very often and eat up space in the book. Maybe seperately as a download or something.
See, I am entirely the opposite. I always include an introductory adventure to better convey what adventure is to be had in the setting. I like them in other games for similar reasons.
Bill
Quote from: HinterWeltSee, I am entirely the opposite. I always include an introductory adventure to better convey what adventure is to be had in the setting. I like them in other games for similar reasons.
I like them for basically those reasons—they tell me how the designers and authors think the game should run—but I, too, would rather they be available elsewhere.
Seanchai
Do books as 3 ring binder style so you can easily replace pages that have errors on them by printing out the page with the correction on it and putting it in.
Another thing would be to make books with a B&W option so they can be printed out more cheaply for gamers on a budget.
But mostly I'd like to see more companies do rulesbooks as 3rb products for ease of correcting ertta and adding updates wihtout having to leaf thru printed eratta and supplements.
(BTW, last time I brought up 3rb rulesbooks ideas I got shouted down by people claiming that in their countries they used 5rb or 7 rbs, so 3rbs wouldn't work there. Well, I've solved that problem: FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FOREIGNERS!!! I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS OR NOT!!!! IT'S HOW WE DO IT AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT THAT WAY THEN YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!)
There, the objection that other countries use 5-7 rb systems is solved neatly. Since that was the only objection to more 3rb products I hope more companies start doing their stuff in that format.
Quote from: SeanchaiI like them for basically those reasons—they tell me how the designers and authors think the game should run—but I, too, would rather they be available elsewhere.
Seanchai
Not everyone has access to the internet, believe it or not, and I am against putting necessary content somewhere other than the book as a matter of principle. Even if you don't use the sample adventure, I think they are important as an indication, at least, of what the game is supposed to be about: studies have shown that one page of sample adventure is worth approx. 10 pages of flavour text.
Ned
EDIT On binder products: My own publishing experience suggests that these things are significantly more expensive than ordinary bound books to produce. The are a number of arguments against them - they are, eg, the shittiest binding possible for books that are going to see a lot of use - but are think the sheer cost of doing it is the killer.
Quote from: Dominus Nox(BTW, last time I brought up 3rb rulesbooks ideas I got shouted down by people claiming that in their countries they used 5rb or 7 rbs, so 3rbs wouldn't work there. Well, I've solved that problem: FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FOREIGNERS!!! I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS OR NOT!!!! IT'S HOW WE DO IT AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT THAT WAY THEN YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!)
There, the objection that other countries use 5-7 rb systems is solved neatly. Since that was the only objection to more 3rb products I hope more companies start doing their stuff in that format.
I know it shouldn't have, but this really did make me laugh.
I am a terrible human being, also a foreigner as it happens.
That said, I don't like ring binders because I find them a bit bulky, I don't have any trouble getting hold of 3rb though.
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyNot everyone has access to the internet, believe it or not, and I am against putting necessary content somewhere other than the book as a matter of principle. Even if you don't use the sample adventure, I think they are important as an indication, at least, of what the game is supposed to be about: studies have shown that one page of sample adventure is worth approx. 10 pages of flavour text.
That's a good point. However, everyone does have access to the Internet. They just might not have it at home.
Seanchai
Quote from: Dominus Nox(BTW, last time I brought up 3rb rulesbooks ideas I got shouted down by people claiming that in their countries they used 5rb or 7 rbs, so 3rbs wouldn't work there. Well, I've solved that problem: FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FOREIGNERS!!! I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS OR NOT!!!! IT'S HOW WE DO IT AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT THAT WAY THEN YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!)
There, the objection that other countries use 5-7 rb systems is solved neatly. Since that was the only objection to more 3rb products I hope more companies start doing their stuff in that format.
Yeah! and on your way out take that damn metric system of yours too! it makes no sense and just confuses everbody. Damn Commies...
Quote from: Dominus Nox(BTW, last time I brought up 3rb rulesbooks ideas I got shouted down by people claiming that in their countries they used 5rb or 7 rbs, so 3rbs wouldn't work there. Well, I've solved that problem: FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FOREIGNERS!!! I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS OR NOT!!!! IT'S HOW WE DO IT AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT THAT WAY THEN YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!)
I don't know which binders are standard in Australia, but I reckon a good stationary store would have
all of them. Having said that, I prefer more rings than less.
Quote from: David JohansenCheap entry point games. Though I'll give ICE cudos. HARP Lite is 100 pages and free. That's what I'm talking about.
I like the TriStat model... the generic rules are free and pretty much complete. If you want to play in a particular genre and/or setting, then you buy a supplement like Ex Machina.
Shame that I don't actually like the TriStat
system :D
Quote from: Leo KnightConcrete examples of play, with the numbers, just to show a newbie (or someone confused by unclear prose) how the rules work in practice. Runequest 1st and 2nd editions had "Rurik's Saga", IMO the best example of play ever. Tunnels and Trolls 5th edition also shone in this department.
The best ever: http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/examples/redbox_example.txt
If you're going to make a game available in a digital format, make it available in a screen reading friendly fashion. PDFs suck dong for screen reads, though they can at least be tolerable if you stick to single columns. Better to use a compressed HTML archive of some kind. Most fanmade games have understood this for as long as the bloody internet has been available, so I remain baffled as to why it remains so difficult for commercial producers.
Further, I wouldn't mind some support for Palm/PDA friendly formats, like Plucker or Aportisdoc.
I'd like less game fiction. WW has gotten worse on this over the years, now opening supplements with ten page short stories I'm not particularly interested in. Even D&D has started adding more of the stuff to its supplements. A page or a paragraph here and there doesn't bother me, but it's not what I'm paying for when I buy a book for a game.
I'd like fewer crappy GMing sections. By this, I mean sections of GM advice that talk in overly-abstract terms about how to establish themes or how to plot out character arcs without telling you useful specific things like "Here's how you make combat interesting" or "Here's how you set up a mystery plot".
Quote from: J ArcaneIf you're going to make a game available in a digital format, make it available in a screen reading friendly fashion. PDFs suck dong for screen reads, though they can at least be tolerable if you stick to single columns. Better to use a compressed HTML archive of some kind. Most fanmade games have understood this for as long as the bloody internet has been available, so I remain baffled as to why it remains so difficult for commercial producers.
Because you're also producing for POD and possibly commercial print. Multiple layouts are a lot of work for minimal (if any) extra return.
Quote from: PseudoephedrineI'd like less game fiction. WW has gotten worse on this over the years, now opening supplements with ten page short stories I'm not particularly interested in. Even D&D has started adding more of the stuff to its supplements. A page or a paragraph here and there doesn't bother me, but it's not what I'm paying for when I buy a book for a game.
It's like artwork and hardback covers though, it's padding used to up the page count and therefore increase the impression of value and therefore justify a much higher price for the same material.
You're unlikely to see the back of it unless there's a fundamental change in the hobby's economics such as gamers actually growing some kind of taste or critical instinct... but while we're doing that we might as well say a little prayer for world peace.
People REALLY like the shitty characters that Exalted's full of. I remember seeing TBP threads devoted to them. Despite the fact that, if the first edition rulebook is anything to go by, they're completely misrepresentative of the character of the game. The first piece of fiction's all about this exalted character leaping out and taking down a load of imperial soldiers with his or her kewl powerz. Its all very free flowing and quick, the characters don't stand around going "Wait... what does that power do again? I need the rulebook" and then spending half an hour rolling dice.
Actually, game fiction annoys me so much that I want to do to people that like game fiction what happens HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m10GYS9cunc) at the 40 second mark
Proofreading. Here's the deal -- plenty of qualified fans will do it for free in exchange for a credit. While they may not be English majors, they'll certainly do a better job than most computerized spell-check software (most of which simply doesn't work at all).
I recently reviewed a game that weighed in at about 97 pages and was very obviously not proofread by anybody -- the sheer number of word substitution errors was a dead giveaway (e.g., "there" for "their") that a rather crippled spell-check program had been used. The game is otherwise great.
There's no excuse for that, really. If I can get a guy to render a professional full-color cover for free, other small-press publishers can get a professional (or nearly professional) proofreader to look over their game prior to publication.
There have been a lot of good ideas here, most of which I agree with (except the 3 ring binder thing; I had the 2e AD&D Monstrous Compendiums that were in 3 ring binders, and they sucked cock (in a bad way) - pages tore out easily, they were bulky, and they weren't easy to reference (and try making a usable index for one).
One thing I wish I'd see more of is electronic/online statblock sources for monsters and NPCs, which could be cut & pasted so one could print out what one needs at the table for a particular session. Along with that, I agree wholeheartedly with the call for pregens that can be printed out.
ACtually, I've thought of another thing, though this may not necessarily fall into the "easy" category, but one I'd like to see:
More goddamn official software.
Every game company out there with an even moderately complex system needs to take a look at e-Tools, and then ape it like there's no tomorrow.
It's an awesome program, and pretty much beats the pants off anything else I've seen, commercial or fan-made.
It also makes the game a hell of a lot more managable in some ways.
I'd also point again to d20srd.org as another example of "tools I can't stand being without when I play other games". It's just so unspeakably useful and well organized. I use it more than print books, especially when referencing stuff in play.
It's also part of why I'm so down on PDF producers who basically just make a print book, slap it into a PDF, and call it good. There's potential for digital documents to be so much more useful than that.