It seems there is no Earthdawn : The Age of Legend topic here yet. I hope I didn't make a mistake of placing it under RPGs section and not Other Games section, even though this game states to be using "story game" system. I think it still has more traditional RPG feel as there is GM, etc.
So, it's new game in Earthdawn setting and is using simpler rules-light system to be more accessible. The system underneath is FU (Freeform Universal RPG) which is available here:
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/89534/FU-The-Freeform-Universal-RPG
I am really excited about this product and am eagerly waiting for it's release, which should be happening quite soon (in few months maybe?). I am both new to this narrative FU system and as well to Earthdawn setting.
More information can be found at the product's home page:
http://www.vagrantworkshop.com/index.php?categoryid=26
Has anyone tried the FU system?
- Create interesting characters quickly by creating descriptors.
- Resolution mechanic pushes towards interesting narrative with Yes and / Yes but / No but / No and results.
- Only players roll the dice, leaving the Narrator free to plot the character's doom!
Hooray, yet another classic gaming IP purchased to be the vehicle of a new narrative shitshow system.
Say what you want about Vince Baker, at least he has the balls to stand on his own designs.
Oh, and welcome to theRPGsite. :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;888304- Create interesting characters quickly by creating descriptors.
- Resolution mechanic pushes towards interesting narrative with Yes and / Yes but / No but / No and results.
- Only players roll the dice, leaving the Narrator free to plot the character's doom!
Hooray, yet another classic gaming IP purchased to be the vehicle of a new narrative shitshow system.
Say what you want about Vince Baker, at least he has the balls to stand on his own designs.
Oh, and welcome to theRPGsite. :D
Hey, at least this one doesn't require a degree in calculus to figure out the target number for a given action.
The target number system was pretty bad. Every talent seemed to have its own TN chart, plus there is Physical/Spell/Social Defense as different TNs to tasks. At least opposed rolls work relatively well.
Still, I think the rules work in the hands of a skilled GM, I wouldn't have run the game for 17 years (6+ campaigns) if I didn't like the step and dice system.
One of the more refreshing things about Savage Worlds is the 4 or Parry as TN except on opposed rolls. Streamlines things considerably. One of the reasons this is my game system of choice currently.
Welcome to the forum!
Quote from: slayride35;888420The target number system was pretty bad. Every talent seemed to have its own TN chart, plus there is Physical/Spell/Social Defense as different TNs to tasks. At least opposed rolls work relatively well.
Still, I think the rules work in the hands of a skilled GM, I wouldn't have run the game for 17 years (6+ campaigns) if I didn't like the step and dice system.
One of the more refreshing things about Savage Worlds is the 4 or Parry as TN except on opposed rolls. Streamlines things considerably. One of the reasons this is my game system of choice currently.
Welcome to the forum!
Have you tried the Savage Worlds version of Earthdawn? I've got all the books and it looks interesting (albeit not perfect, IMO), but unfortunately it came out right after my group was wrapping up a two-year Earthdawn campaign so we weren't exactly looking to start another one.
I passed on the latest edition of Earthdawn because I was a little cautious about the company, but this version might work for short games and one-shots. I'm not especially familiar with FU, but for my own group I've already got more Earthdawn books than I can use. So I doubt this version will be one I pick up, but I could see it being useful for some groups that don't like to do extended campaigns or just want to do a quick one- or two-night adventure before playing something else.
Quote from: CRKrueger;888304Hooray, yet another classic gaming IP purchased to be the vehicle of a new narrative shitshow system.
It's being made by a different company than, and is not interfering with the production of, Earthdawn 4e. The crunchy version is still available and still kicking, albeit slowly.
Thank you for welcoming me to the boards. Looking forward to a more open and ban-free environment than rpg.net is :)
About Age of Legend, GeekEclectic has it right. This is only a sideproject for Earthdawn - not replacing it's system. I like that they are using established system (FU) which seem to have positive reviews on DTRPG. I think more "clever" little systems (mini 6) should do that.
I am welcoming it, because it has really good production values (preview PDF is out, though there is not much content there) and regarding to FAQ on the home page, I seem to be the exact target audiance.
I am always a sucker for another rules light fantasy RPG system, to introduce non-gamers to the hobby. Especially with a good setting. Especially with sandbox, little-prep guidelines (which I hope to be there).
Narrative rules - this is why I game - to experience a story! Now, there are narrative rules that are doing it right, that enhance immersion, enrich the details and inspire to role play. And there are the bad narrative rules, which are actually rules of some kind of meta-game, that accomplish the opposite and hinder my immersion. Tastes are different, I will wait and see.
The Earthdawn step-system is currently too big step for me to go forward. Rules heavy games are something I am not looking for at the moment (too many games, so little time).
Also, I have considered picking up the Savage Worlds Earthdawn setting in the past, but the harsh reviews scared me away. Also the production vales were not impressive. Also it's hard to sell anything SW to me, because I have already covered the whole spectrum of awesomeness for this system - so much so, that there is nothing exciting in SW for me anymore.
This is a separate licencing deal with Vagrant Workshop, and is a parallel system alongside Earthdawn 4E (meaning it should be dead simple to use 4E source books like Travar or Elven Nations, or earlier souce books, with the FU incarnation of the system). It is headed up by Carsten Damm, one of the main developers from Germany for Earthdawn Classic/early 3e. Kathy Schad is also on-board to do Art for Age of Legend, and I loved her stuff for Classic/3E. I'm excited, as this is a mending of the relationships that fell apart at the end of the Redbrick era.
(Aside for full disclosure, I now do development work for FasaGames, just got onboarded recently for Earthdawn 4E mechanics development, so that's where my perspective is coming from.)
I'm interested in Age of Legend. I was heavy into Earthdawn years ago but these days the system is a bit too involved for me.
Quote from: Brand55;888433Have you tried the Savage Worlds version of Earthdawn? I've got all the books and it looks interesting (albeit not perfect, IMO), but unfortunately it came out right after my group was wrapping up a two-year Earthdawn campaign so we weren't exactly looking to start another one.
I passed on the latest edition of Earthdawn because I was a little cautious about the company, but this version might work for short games and one-shots. I'm not especially familiar with FU, but for my own group I've already got more Earthdawn books than I can use. So I doubt this version will be one I pick up, but I could see it being useful for some groups that don't like to do extended campaigns or just want to do a quick one- or two-night adventure before playing something else.
I own all the Earthdawn Savage Worlds books on PDF. Unfortunately, they converted Earthdawn to Savage Worlds rather than converting it into a Savage Worlds mechanically. So its the same clunky system with a Savage Worlds skin with tons of talents as edges, spells, etc. They didn't adopt the less is more approach of SW. Like Mind Dagger, Earth Darts, Ephemeral Bolt, and Spirit Dart are all Bolt with a different trapping. Yet all have their own entries still.
Ironically, the Earthdawn Savage Worlds books make an excellent midpoint for converting from D&D/Pathfinder to Savage Worlds because of the reason above. Has all the crunch but in Savage Worlds, and can get people in the door so to speak with familiar spell and class lists but allow people to experience the much more brief Savage Worlds combat.
Looks good, color me interested. I read FU a few years ago and I really liked it.
The artwork and overall production value of the book seems superb. Kudos to those behind it.
My only (small) complain is the book size. I mostly buy PDFs, so this is going to be a nightmare to print in A4.
This is going to be a joke.
Carsten has fallen into the same trap so many other wannabe designers have. Hubris.
Fasagames has to liscense the ip already? They haven't even finished with their KS yet, from 2 years ago....and already the "LD"(I use that term very loosely, makes me giggle to even say it) is whining about not being paid so where did the $100k go?
This is still happening? Cool!
Looking forward to it. I have a load of 1st Ed stuff acquired over the years, but barring a short stint as GM never actually got it off the ground. I got the SW Player's pdf as I thought it might be easier to sell but it just didn't click. Have no experience with FU but from the look of the (very pretty) previews it might suit newbies - and I can recycle the old adventures for a low prep campaign.
Quote from: Sommerjon;889547This is going to be a joke.
Carsten has fallen into the same trap so many other wannabe designers have. Hubris.
Fasagames has to liscense the ip already? They haven't even finished with their KS yet, from 2 years ago....and already the "LD"(I use that term very loosely, makes me giggle to even say it) is whining about not being paid so where did the $100k go?
Same as the Exalted money.
Up someone's nose.
I just never got into this game.
Earthdawn's setting is a post-apocalyptic one with the normal apocalypse changed to evil creatures from another dimension with the most advanced that feed on negative human emotions such as fear, jealousy, and hate, but with also creatures that exist purely to destroy and consume that care little for emotions. The Horrors forced the people of Barsaive, Thera, Cathay, and other nations to live underground in kaers. Many kaers were shattered by Horrors and did not survive the Scourge, the period of major Horror activity that coincided with the strongest magic levels on the Earth. Thus you have tons of dungeons filled with treasure from underground cities filled with monsters (Horrors and their constructs). So a rationale for one of the major DnD tropes.
The goal of the PCs as heroes is to fight the Horrors and reestablish civilization through new settlements by unsealing kaers that are still sealed and to expand trade routes as well as fight off the Horrors and claim back the world from evil.
You also have a political backdrop of the island of Thera and the Theran Empire which once ruled over most of the world. With the Scourge their control was broken. The Empire is trying to reestablish its control over the provinces and take back its empire from provinces that have tasted independence during the long night.
The magic system is also very interesting with magicians that exchange time for always being able to use magic through threading spells and then casting them, with each thread making the spell take longer to cast in rounds, but usually much more powerful for the extra time spent threading it before casting. However, they can only have so much of their spell book in their spell matrices, a way of filtering magic safely through astral space polluted by the Horror's corruption compared to more dangerous methods such as using a magic item as the spell matrix (Risking the item such as a grimoire) or casting raw magic (risking your own person through damage and the potential to expose yourself to a Horror's curse or mark). Safely putting spells into matrices costs time through meditation or weaving on the fly to put them in a matrix.
Magic items cannot simply be used, you need to connect them to your pattern with experience points and understand their legend and history as well as accomplish deeds to unlock their powers.
Overall, Earthdawn is a lot like a Dungeons and Dragons game except with a heavy Horror vibe and a lot of its tropes are used with an explanation of them with in game flavor. The flavor is a lot better than the mechanics, but I always found them fun.
Earthdawn is connected to Shadowrun in the older FASA editions. The concept of drain is actually from Shadowrun mages not being aware of matrix casting or casting through items, using their own bodies as the astral filter, the most dangerous method. Shadowrun with its goblinization is actually caused by the magic level rising with the existence of dwarves, elves, trolls, and other Earthdawn races potentially possible again with the magic level being high enough to support their existence again. As the magic level goes towards its zenith, a new Scourge can arrive except that the people in Shadowrun will have both magic and technology to fight the Horrors as they arrive again on the Earth. If I was Catalyst I'd be building towards this concept.
It's ready!
http://www.vagrantworkshop.com/index.php?categoryid=26&p2_articleid=116
Heya!
Quote from: Maese Mateo;889163Looks good, color me interested. I read FU a few years ago and I really liked it.
The artwork and overall production value of the book seems superb. Kudos to those behind it.
My only (small) complain is the book size. I mostly buy PDFs, so this is going to be a nightmare to print in A4.
Thank you! The PDF that went live was designed to look good in print first and foremost, hence the bloat. We're working on an optimized PDF for reading, printing, and playing, which will be added to the product's files as soon as possible.
Quote from: Sommerjon;889547Carsten has fallen into the same trap so many other wannabe designers have. Hubris.
You might want to explain that to me, because I really don't get the hubris part. ;)
Best,
Dammi
Quote from: Dammi;893561You might want to explain that to me, because I really don't get the hubris part. ;)
Best,
Dammi
Perfect!
Since FASA'a collapse, Earthdawn has stumbled from one shitty-assed wannabe designer to another to another. Now we find out one of the jackasses is back for round two.
w00t? :(
Still trying to figure out what Earthdawn did to deserve this. :idunno:
Quote from: Sommerjon;893790Still trying to figure out what Earthdawn did to deserve this. :idunno:
It was never considered good enough to rate better.
Quote from: Sommerjon;893790Quote from: Dammi;893561You might want to explain that to me, because I really don't get the hubris part. ;)
Perfect!
Since FASA'a collapse, Earthdawn has stumbled from one shitty-assed wannabe designer to another to another. Now we find out one of the jackasses is back for round two.
I mistook you for a thread-crapping troll at first, and thought presenting yourself as practical example would be below you. But then you did that anyway, which is both hilarious and awesome. Thank you for that!
Quote from: Christopher Brady;893795It was never considered good enough to rate better.
That was FASA and their lousy marketing.
Followed up by 3 shitty companies getting the IP
Quote from: Dammi;893823I mistook you for a thread-crapping troll at first, and thought presenting yourself as practical example would be below you. But then you did that anyway, which is both hilarious and awesome. Thank you for that!
2 options
1A. Someone runs to you and says someone said something bad about you.
Or
1B. You google yourself multiple times a day.
Or
2. You'll say "I've been lurking here for years, never felt the need to say anything until now"
Of course you'll say it's 2 but we both know it's actually 1B.
And this was done to help me save face.......:rolleyes:
What was your grand accomplishment with Earthdawn?
Reprinting the core rules, not once, not twice, but three goddam times.
Good Job!:hatsoff:
Quote from: Sommerjon;8938532 options
1A. Someone runs to you and says someone said something bad about you.
Or
1B. You google yourself multiple times a day.
Or
2. You'll say "I've been lurking here for years, never felt the need to say anything until now"
Of course you'll say it's 2 but we both know it's actually 1B.
1B is my secret. Its the only thing I do most days, actually. But in this case, I googled what people say about our latest release. I never bothered to sign up on theRPGsite before, and probably wouldn't have for people calling me names--but being accused of hubris was too interesting to pass up.
"Maybe he's right and I didn't realize?" were my thoughts.
"Or just some guy venting about stuff he doesn't really understand?" (I think I know the answer, but haven't given up hope yet.)
So I hope you don't mind me showing up here for a little company? You're the one who made it personal, after all. I can take the negativity, don't worry.
Quote from: Sommerjon;893853What was your grand accomplishment with Earthdawn?
Reprinting the core rules, not once, not twice, but three goddam times.
Good Job!:hatsoff:
I can only take credit for Classic and Third, but hey, it's something! A lot of people liked those books, I'm glad you did too! I wouldn't call reprinting some core rules a grand accomplishment, though. That was just neccessary to do something with an OOP game. We all learned a lot doing that (especially with Classic), and I wouldn't dismiss those experiences from my past. I think my greatest accomplishment here was being able to drive a whole team of people scattered across the globe to the point of actually producing something with decent quality for several years. In everyone's spare time, besides families, paying jobs, and personal tragedies.
But talking of grand accomplishments, what's yours? (Bad-mouthing complete strangers on public forums can't be the only thing you're proud of, right?)
To be fair, Sommerjon, reprinting the rules has been pretty much what the fans of Earthdawn ever wanted. At least that way, their game was in print and meant something to them, instead of being a 'dead game'. Which somehow makes it unplayable.
For the record, I like Earthdawn. It takes the D&D conceits, runs with them and make them work, in a much better way than any edition of D&D (in my opinion, which is not in any way, shape or form, fact.) I've played in a couple of campaigns and have always had a blast with them.
Hi Dammi, :hatsoff:
Perhaps an introduction is in order, because I haven't kept up with Earthdawn ever since it split from Shadowrun in the original FASA days and I have no idea who you are.
Quote from: Dammi;8938741B is my secret. Its the only thing I do most days, actually. But in this case, I googled what people say about our latest release. I never bothered to sign up on theRPGsite before, and probably wouldn't have for people calling me names--but being accused of hubris was too interesting to pass up. "Maybe he's right and I didn't realize?" were my thoughts. "Or just some guy venting about stuff he doesn't really understand?" (I think I know the answer, but haven't given up hope yet.)
So I hope you don't mind me showing up here for a little company? You're the one who made it personal, after all. I can take the negativity, don't worry.
1B isn't a secret, it is what desperate people do.
Quote from: Dammi;893874I can only take credit for Classic and Third, but hey, it's something! A lot of people liked those books, I'm glad you did too! I wouldn't call reprinting some core rules a grand accomplishment, though. That was just neccessary to do something with an OOP game. We all learned a lot doing that (especially with Classic), and I wouldn't dismiss those experiences from my past. I think my greatest accomplishment here was being able to drive a whole team of people scattered across the globe to the point of actually producing something with decent quality for several years. In everyone's spare time, besides families, paying jobs, and personal tragedies.
Where did I say I liked those books?
I already have the 1e books, so why in the hell would I buy classic for?
3e was a joke taken way too far, right? Come on, you can't possibly be proud of that drivel. Oh wait, my bad, I forgot who I was talking with. You would be proud of that garbage.
Quote from: Dammi;893874But talking of grand accomplishments, what's yours? (Bad-mouthing complete strangers on public forums can't be the only thing you're proud of, right?)
Don't be trying to deflect, this is all about you baby.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;893931To be fair, Sommerjon, reprinting the rules has been pretty much what the fans of Earthdawn ever wanted. At least that way, their game was in print and meant something to them, instead of being a 'dead game'. Which somehow makes it unplayable.
It was? Was there a flier that went out or something?
Heya!
Quote from: CRKrueger;893934Perhaps an introduction is in order, because I haven't kept up with Earthdawn ever since it split from Shadowrun in the original FASA days and I have no idea who you are.
A few years back, I was Line Developer for Earthdawn Classic and Third Edition. Classic came into being as an attempt to produce RPGs through print-on-demand (which was still in its babyshoes back in 2004/2005). Both the size of the books (all rules and material contained in two volumes, each over 500 pages) put a strain on the team as well as the print service. It worked out well in the end, even though there was limited exposure since there was no was to get these into regular distribution channels. We still sold almost a thousand copies, way more than expected.
We did Third Edition after Lulu's shipping prices went through the roof unexpectedly, teaming up with Mongoose and using traditional print and distribution channels. A constraint was that we had to cut down page size, however, and we took the opporunity to add the development work we had done and tested with the fanbase in the meantime. We managed to produce several books per year, both reprints and new material, all in our spare time. That edition was received very well, beyond any expectation we or Mongoose had. I dropped out somewhere in 2011, because I needed more time to raise my new-born kids. Things at RedBrick had already started to go south, and ended badly later on for various reasons.
I started my own label with some of the team members that stuck around, producing "small" roleplaying games from various authors as well as my own line, equinox. We have recently picked up a separate license for Earthdawn to try something new with it (FASA is doing the regular Fourth Edition, with which we have nothing to do). Earthdawn: The Age of Legend is the result and was released this month: a rules-light story-based roleplaying game that utilizes all the material that has previously been published. It's meant as an alternative to the old Step System juggernaut that has been around since the 90's. The game caters to a different audience, and we hope it rekindles interest in the setting. Plus, there are a lot of people owning but not playing Earthdawn with the Step System because they find it too clunky.
And that's why I am here. I noted there was a thread about our game and checked it out. Confronting that Summerjon guy (or girl, for all I know) was another reason, because I feared his (or her) personal attacks on me were based on something substantial. I wanted to find out why he (or she) was so filled with bile--sitting on such a high horse forgetting his good manners--but I guess the truth is he (or she) never had any in the first place. I'm sorry that part took up so much space in this thread, but it was oddly entertaining because he (or she) constantly tried to stick attributes on me but made a spectacular display of having all these traits* himself in pretty much every post of this thread. (I didn't bother to look into others, but I'd bet money it's the same everywhere.) Sarcasm wasn't his (or her) strong suit either, so I gave up and here we are. I hope there'll be talk about the game again.
Best,
Dammi
*) Here's the list: "being desperate", "being filled with hubris", "being a wanna-be", "narcicissm", "being a jackass" -- can you find them all? :-)
I'm interested in Earthdawn, What do you mean by 'Rules light' in Age of Legend, though?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;894189I'm interested in Earthdawn, What do you mean by 'Rules light' in Age of Legend, though?
It's a different rules system, one geared primarily toward storytelling. It's not Fate, but is closer to that family of systems than the original Step System. Very easy to learn and pick up, and very GM-friendly (low to none prep time). No number crunching.
There is a short FAQ (http://www.vagrantworkshop.com/index.php?categoryid=27) over on the product site, and you can find an example of play in the Resources (http://www.vagrantworkshop.com/index.php?categoryid=28) section.
Quote from: jux;888301Has anyone tried the FU system?
I have, as a player. We used it in a game based on the setting of a novella that one of the GM's friends has written and is now awaiting publication:).
Of course, since only the GM had read it, he placed us before the story of the novella.
So of course, the first thing our PCs did was to kill the major protagonist antihero;). We kinda had reasons - he was a jerk, seemed to be involved in illegal shit, and tried to recruit us for these activities forcefully. We wanted none of his BS. Did I mention that we were in a kind of prison?
To be honest, I wasn't meaning to kill him. I just ambushed him and knocked him out, then tied him up - all acting on orders of the warden, who wanted to talk to him, might I add. But when he woke up, he started threatening us. And he managed to hit exactly a threat that made another PC freak out (not system-mandated, that's how the player had described him).
So he said "ah yes? But you can't do much while you're tied up, right?"
"They're going to untie me. And I'll come after you, both of you, I swear by the dark gods!"
Kinda stupid last words, when a tied guy says them to someone who's doing time after a violent freak-out:D! Although many people are prone to doing this. (Allegedly, some even survived, because modern medicine, or because the attacker only aimed to administer a beating).
My point is - the FU system isn't an issue. People still play their characters, pretty much how you'd expect.
Sure, it's "pick your own descriptors", and it's low granularity (normally, this might have changed). But it's no more story-gamey than if you crossed RuneQuest6 with Unknown Armies. (Again, that goes for the core rules, when used by players that aren't interested in using them in a storygamey fashion. This version might be better or worse, I have no way of knowing).
Now, if they've managed to deal with the baked-in lack of granularity? I'd be interested, and not even because of Earthdawn.
Otherwise, I might decide to pass or not to pass, but it wouldn't be because of the system so much as the setting never appealing too much (I like some of the central concepts, but not others).
I have a sense that FU system on similar "genre" as FATE. What do you think, which has more story gamey feel - FATE or FU?
Quote from: jux;894752I have a sense that FU system on similar "genre" as FATE. What do you think, which has more story gamey feel - FATE or FU?
Opinions might vary, but I'd say Fate is more of a storygame - though I'd suggest reading the free FU rules. Of course, the Fate engine was used in Fudge RPG before that, and Fudge is a simulationist immersion-oriented game:).
My point is, it's not about the specific mechanics, the presentation and the way they are combined are just as important;).
Quote from: Dammi;894088A few years back, I was Line Developer for Earthdawn Classic and Third Edition. Classic came into being as an attempt to produce RPGs through print-on-demand (which was still in its babyshoes back in 2004/2005). Both the size of the books (all rules and material contained in two volumes, each over 500 pages) put a strain on the team as well as the print service. It worked out well in the end, even though there was limited exposure since there was no was to get these into regular distribution channels. We still sold almost a thousand copies, way more than expected.
We did Third Edition after Lulu's shipping prices went through the roof unexpectedly, teaming up with Mongoose and using traditional print and distribution channels. A constraint was that we had to cut down page size, however, and we took the opporunity to add the development work we had done and tested with the fanbase in the meantime. We managed to produce several books per year, both reprints and new material, all in our spare time. That edition was received very well, beyond any expectation we or Mongoose had. I dropped out somewhere in 2011, because I needed more time to raise my new-born kids. Things at RedBrick had already started to go south, and ended badly later on for various reasons.
I started my own label with some of the team members that stuck around, producing "small" roleplaying games from various authors as well as my own line, equinox. We have recently picked up a separate license for Earthdawn to try something new with it (FASA is doing the regular Fourth Edition, with which we have nothing to do). Earthdawn: The Age of Legend is the result and was released this month: a rules-light story-based roleplaying game that utilizes all the material that has previously been published. It's meant as an alternative to the old Step System juggernaut that has been around since the 90's. The game caters to a different audience, and we hope it rekindles interest in the setting. Plus, there are a lot of people owning but not playing Earthdawn with the Step System because they find it too clunky.
And that's why I am here. I noted there was a thread about our game and checked it out. Confronting that Summerjon guy (or girl, for all I know) was another reason, because I feared his (or her) personal attacks on me were based on something substantial. I wanted to find out why he (or she) was so filled with bile--sitting on such a high horse forgetting his good manners--but I guess the truth is he (or she) never had any in the first place. I'm sorry that part took up so much space in this thread, but it was oddly entertaining because he (or she) constantly tried to stick attributes on me but made a spectacular display of having all these traits* himself in pretty much every post of this thread. (I didn't bother to look into others, but I'd bet money it's the same everywhere.) Sarcasm wasn't his (or her) strong suit either, so I gave up and here we are. I hope there'll be talk about the game again.
Best,
Dammi
*) Here's the list: "being desperate", "being filled with hubris", "being a wanna-be", "narcicissm", "being a jackass" -- can you find them all? :-)
What
A
Joke
Here is a tool proud of his mediocrity. Proud. People wonder what is wrong with the RPG industry. This tool is what is wrong with the RPG industry
Lets compare material
FASA 1993-1999Earthdawn Game System
Earthdawn Gamemaster Pack
Barsaive (boxed set)
Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 1
Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 2
Legends of Earthdawn, Volume 1
Parlainth: The Forgotten City (boxed set)
Creatures of Barsaive
The Adept's Way
Horrors
Sky Point & Vivane (boxed set)
Serpent River
The Book of Exploration. Legends of Earthdawn, Volume 2
Throal: The Dwarf Kingdom
Earthdawn Survival Guide
The Blood Wood
The Theran Empire
Secret Societies of Barsaive
Crystal Raiders of Barsaive
Ork Nation of Cara Fahd
Earthdawn Companion
Magic: A Manual of Mystic Secrets
Arcane Mysteries of Barsaive
With this tool was able to accomplish while in charge of Earthdawn 2004-2011Kratas: City of Thieves
Cathay: The Five Kingdoms Player's Guide
Cathay: The Five Kingdoms Gamemaster's Guide
Wanna get into the travesty of 3e?
Yes please,
It
Sucks
Balls
Sommerjon, you're an asshole.
People like you, who piss on the work of others, are scum. Worthless, degenerate scum.
Quote from: Sommerjon;894948Wanna get into the travesty of 3e?
Yes please,
It
Sucks
Balls
What's so bad about 3e?
Rules-wise, it was the best iteration so far. So i guess you didn't like the fluff?
Quote from: Anglachel;895041What's so bad about 3e?
Rules-wise, it was the best iteration so far. So i guess you didn't like the fluff?
He has a personal grudge against the man it seems.
Quote from: Tybalt;894960Sommerjon, you're an asshole.
People like you, who piss on the work of others, are scum. Worthless, degenerate scum.
Stop it Dammi. At least have the balls to say this openly. Don't be hiding behind a sock puppet.
Quote from: Anglachel;895041What's so bad about 3e?
Rules-wise, it was the best iteration so far. So i guess you didn't like the fluff?
ROTFLMAO.
I'm sorry, my bad. Please tell me why it was the best iteration so far. Then I'll tell you why you are wrong.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;895051He has a personal grudge against the man it seems.
I have a grudge against lousy work.
Ok, so evasive bullshit is all you got. Disappointing.
Quote from: Anglachel;895170Ok, so evasive bullshit is all you got. Disappointing.
You give nothing beside "it's da best" and you call me evasive?
But here I'll give you a bone.
Qualifying for fifth circle.
Edition A. Of the 13 talents 8 needed at rank 5, 1 talent has to be from fourth circle
Edition B. Of the 13 talents the 8 discipline talents are needed at rank 5
Which is better?
Edition A has only 1 stipulation. Edition B has an ever increasing number of stipulations.
According to you Edition B is better.
Quote from: Anglachel;895170Ok, so evasive bullshit is all you got. Disappointing.
You want another one?
Discipline Talent Use: Some Disciplines emphasize the importance of particular talents and mold a greater portion of their magic around these talents. These talents are called Discipline talents. When your character uses a Discipline talent, you may....
1e/2e Air Sailor: How does 2e define them? Air Sailors are fighters who use magic to enhance their techniques of piloting the airships that fly the skies of Barsaive. Used to operating as part of a crew, Air Sailors adapt very well to other types of groups. They are the most common crewman on the airships of the civilized nations and trading companies of Barsaive and Thera.
What do they use as discipline talents?
Great Leap: The Great Leap talent allows characters to jump across large distances. Sky Raiders/Air Sailors often use this talent to cross the chasms between airships and to leap clear of burning rigging and debris. To use this talent, the character rolls his Great Leap dice...
Wind Catcher: The Wind Catcher talent givesa character a chance to control his fall from a height. The character makes a Wind Catcher Test, using the test result to determine what effect the talent had on his or her descent...
Let's look at 3e
Discipline Talents form the core of a Discipline and are identical for each member of that Discipline. A Discipline Talent is always available from the indicated Circle....
Talent Options are more versatile, facilitating diversity among members of each Discipline. A player can choose which Talent Options fit his character's philosophy best. At each Circle, he can choose one talent from a pool of optional talents,...
3e Air Sailor: How does 3e define them? Air Sailors are the swashbuckling brotherhood of the sky. Air Sailors never leave their fellows behind and embrace the idea of togetherness, working to protect and spread civilization, rather than preying upon it.
What do they use as discipline talents?
Distract: The adept diverts an opponent's attention by making a Distract Test against the target's Social Defense. If successful,...
Empathic Sense: he adepts gains information about the emotional state of a character within 10 yards by making an Empathic Sense Test against the target's Social Defense. If successful, he senses the target's emotions and gains information appropriate...
What do they use as talent options?
Great Leap
Wind CatcherSo, yeah... Evidently in 3e the whole concept of the Air Sailor, you know those people who crew flying ships, is not to actually crew flying ships anymore. It's now about getting in touch with each others feelings while distracting them from 'stuff'.
That's just the first Discipline in the list.
But according to you...
"Rules-wise, it was the best iteration so far." :rolleyes:
Heya!
Quote from: Christopher Brady;895051He has a personal grudge against the man it seems.
I think that's pretty obvious, although I have no idea why and Sommerjon isn't sharing. So he hates what we did a few years back and blames me--so what? There are certainly better reasons to hate me.
Using sock-puppet accounts on a forum without moderation makes as much sense as posting insults to someone when his/her behavior speaks for itself. I have no need to get down into that mud, I'd just upset the pigs.
Anyways, shouldn't we rather discuss the actual game and answer questions and feedback about that instead of reading insults and half-assed comparisons on OOP game systems that aren't even the topic here?
Best,
Dammi
Quote from: Dammi;895555Heya!
I think that's pretty obvious, although I have no idea why and Sommerjon isn't sharing. So he hates what we did a few years back and blames me--so what? There are certainly better reasons to hate me.
Using sock-puppet accounts on a forum without moderation makes as much sense as posting insults to someone when his/her behavior speaks for itself. I have no need to get down into that mud, I'd just upset the pigs.
Anyways, shouldn't we rather discuss the actual game and answer questions and feedback about that instead of reading insults and half-assed comparisons on OOP game systems that aren't even the topic here?
Best,
Dammi
So much for being proud of your work Dammi. :rolleyes:
Par for the Dammi course, when someone points out your mediocrity you go all passive aggressive. Have you started whining to the mods yet? Tell people the real reason.
You turned a Traditional Game into a
Storygame ain't noone here gonna discuss that.
It wont be long until it gets moved over to Other Games
Sorry, mods - is this place for mentally challenged? Clean this shit up.
Quote from: jux;895583Sorry, mods - is this place for mentally challenged? Clean this shit up.
Ah, let him. We had way more proficient haters back in the day.^^
Nah. You banned any opposition to your vision and if not able you ran right quick like to the mods and pouted over and over and over and over again about the meanies:( .
Ok, so here's what I can easily find about the different ED versions. I have some questions if anyone knows the answers.
Earthdawn First Edition - FASA Corporation (this is the one I have a ton of stuff for) This was Weisman and Babcock.
Earthdawn Second Edition - Living Room Games (a company made up of fans who kept ED alive). They licensed Earthdawn from FASA Corporation, which was for a long time just an owner of IP.
Q. Anyone want to chime in on how this version is different?
Earthdawn Classic - RedBrick Limited (this is where ED made the move to the dual core book format of Player's Compendium and GM's Compendium). This was licensed from FASA Corporation (or maybe Wizkids, the IP bounced back and forth I think).
Q. Dammi (Carsten Damm) are you RedBrick Limited?
Q. At this point, was EarthDawn Classic basically First Edition reprinted with errata and combining stuff out of splats or was there more to it then that?
Earthdawn Third Edition - RedBrick Limited (this is where the rules are now 4 books, Player's Guide, Player's Companion, GM's Guide, GM's Companion). Still licensed from FASA Corporation.
Q. Sommerjon, this is the one you posted the changes from, right, not Earthdawn Classic?
Earthdawn Revised Third Edition -FASA Games Inc. (Apparently FASA Corporation, gave the license to FASA Games, Inc, a new company with Babcock on the board.)
Q. What did they change from Third Edition?
Q. Dammi, you had nothing to do with this one, correct?
FUN FACT: FASA has all computer game rights to Shadowrun, Battletech and Crimson Skies again. In fact Weisman got those back from Microsoft like 8 years ago. Who knew?
Earthdawn 4th Edition - FASA Games, Inc. So now FASA is putting Earthdawn out again.
Q.What the hell is the system like at this point?
Q. Is Earthdawn back to being the Fourth World, ie. the previous magical upcycle before Shadowrun?
Q. Dammi, you had nothing to do with this one, correct?
Earthdawn: Age of Legend - Vagrant Workshop. Licensed from FASA Corporation.
Q. So Dammi, you're now Vagrant Workshop instead of Redbrick Limited?
Q. What ever happened to Equinox?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot...
Earthdawn: Savage Worlds Edition - Redbrick Limited
Q. Anybody have this, how does it translate? Is is a paintjob or a more in-depth version like Totems of the Dead?
BTW, looks like every single title of every single version is available by FASA on DTRPG, as well as Fading Suns Revised and Second Edition(that's a history lesson for another thread).
Heya!
Quote from: Sommerjon;895588Nah. You banned any opposition to your vision and if not able you ran right quick like to the mods and pouted over and over and over and over again about the meanies:( .
Ah, so you displayed your splendid behavior on a RedBrick forum and got yourself shown out. That explains a lot.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Q. Dammi (Carsten Damm) are you RedBrick Limited?
Ages ago, I was part of them yes. Classic was the first line we did, and the first attempt to publish via PoD.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Q. At this point, was EarthDawn Classic basically First Edition reprinted with errata and combining stuff out of splats or was there more to it then that?
New adventures, mostly. Kratas and Cathay were developed at that time, but released after the (forced) switch to Third.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn Revised Third Edition -FASA Games Inc. (Apparently FASA Corporation, gave the license to FASA Games, Inc, a new company with Babcock on the board.)
...
Q. Dammi, you had nothing to do with this one, correct?
Nope, they reconfigured the material and re-released it after most of the design team had left.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Q. Dammi, you had nothing to do with this one, correct?
Yep, correct.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn: Age of Legend - Vagrant Workshop. Licensed from FASA Corporation.
Q. So Dammi, you're now Vagrant Workshop instead of Redbrick Limited?
Q. What ever happened to Equinox?
Yes, that's the company I am running now. Find it here: //www.vagrantworkshop.com
Equinox has been released in 2012, check //www.equinox-rpg.com
Oh, and for the record: yes, I am proud of my creations, of every creation of any of our writers, and everything we achieved with the team. Something would be wrong if it were otherwise.
Best,
Dammi
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Ok, so here's what I can easily find about the different ED versions. I have some questions if anyone knows the answers.
Earthdawn First Edition - FASA Corporation (this is the one I have a ton of stuff for) This was Weisman and Babcock.
Yes.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn Second Edition - Living Room Games (a company made up of fans who kept ED alive). They licensed Earthdawn from FASA Corporation, which was for a long time just an owner of IP.
Q. Anyone want to chime in on how this version is different?
Earthdawn Classic - RedBrick Limited (this is where ED made the move to the dual core book format of Player's Compendium and GM's Compendium). This was licensed from FASA Corporation (or maybe Wizkids, the IP bounced back and forth I think).
Q. Dammi (Carsten Damm) are you RedBrick Limited?
Q. At this point, was EarthDawn Classic basically First Edition reprinted with errata and combining stuff out of splats or was there more to it then that?
2e and EDC are essentially reprints with a bit of errata. EDC combined multiple books down to 2 books.
Redbrick was owned by James Flower/Sutton
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn Third Edition - RedBrick Limited (this is where the rules are now 4 books, Player's Guide, Player's Companion, GM's Guide, GM's Companion). Still licensed from FASA Corporation.
Q. Sommerjon, this is the one you posted the changes from, right, not Earthdawn Classic?
Yes.
You can equate this edition to your love of 4e D&D.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn Revised Third Edition -FASA Games Inc. (Apparently FASA Corporation, gave the license to FASA Games, Inc, a new company with Babcock on the board.)
Q. What did they change from Third Edition?
Q. Dammi, you had nothing to do with this one, correct?
They shrunk the book size to journal.
Yes this was after the Sutton-Flowers vs Damm soap opera.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn 4th Edition - FASA Games, Inc. So now FASA is putting Earthdawn out again.
Q.What the hell is the system like at this point?
Q. Is Earthdawn back to being the Fourth World, ie. the previous magical upcycle before Shadowrun?
Q. Dammi, you had nothing to do with this one, correct?
A. Complete trash
A. Yes, but wait it gets better. They came out with "1879"(since they lost the SR connection) A sophomoric take on steampunk. It's bad, real bad but they got a miniature game tie in. Too bad it's 15mm and the models are shit.
A. Thank gawd. Unfortunately we went from Tweedledee to Tweedledum. The new LD(Harrison) makes Dammi look competent.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Earthdawn: Age of Legend - Vagrant Workshop. Licensed from FASA Corporation.
Q. So Dammi, you're now Vagrant Workshop instead of Redbrick Limited?
Q. What ever happened to Equinox?
A. Yes.
A. It has gone no where.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630Oh yeah, I almost forgot...
Earthdawn: Savage Worlds Edition - Redbrick Limited
Also a PF version of it as well.
Both make your vurp a bit
To tell you had bad it was, Some Guy bought the PF version and spent a bunch of time dissecting the flaws in it...They turned around and hired him as the LD for it.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895630BTW, looks like every single title of every single version is available by FASA on DTRPG, as well as Fading Suns Revised and Second Edition(that's a history lesson for another thread).
Yes
Quote from: Dammi;895640Ah, so you displayed your splendid behavior on a RedBrick forum and got yourself shown out. That explains a lot.
Sorry I was never banned.
I did, however, observe your petty "how dare you question me!" behavior for years. You always had a readily available excuse. Nothing was ever on you.
Here I can call you a fucktard and not have to worry about you or your 'disciples'.
Thanks, Sommerjon. ;)
Quote from: Sommerjon;895643A. Complete trash
You feel like unpacking that a bit?
Quote from: CRKrueger;895650You feel like unpacking that a bit?
Honestly, I wish he wouldn't. I want them both to drop the vitriol. No matter what Jon is thinking, it's obviously not working, and Dammi seems to be having 'fun' at just egging him on.
Quote from: CRKrueger;895650You feel like unpacking that a bit?
Thread Weaving is now a 1st circle talent
Durability is no longer a talent it works exactly like HP in D&D i.e. gain a circle gain 1 'rank' in Durability.
Karma Ritual is no longer a talent work like durability. No longer requires Legend Points to be spent.
Karma is spent like bennies now.
Armor defeating hits are gone.
They based their rules around +mods instead increasing step number
Spells were totally revamped. Was supposedly done to add 'drama' to spellcasters. Too much micromanagement with little return
Been 2 years. With a whole whopping 2 books released.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;895652Honestly, I wish he wouldn't. I want them both to drop the vitriol. No matter what Jon is thinking, it's obviously not working, and Dammi seems to be having 'fun' at just egging him on.
Then don't look at the thread.
No one here gives a shit about the story-game version of Earthdawn
Quote from: Christopher Brady;895652Honestly, I wish he wouldn't. I want them both to drop the vitriol. No matter what Jon is thinking, it's obviously not working, and Dammi seems to be having 'fun' at just egging him on.
Yeah, sorry about that. If anyone wants to discuss the game, you know where to find me.
Quote from: Dammi;895726Yeah, sorry about that. If anyone wants to discuss the game, you know where to find me.
No one here gives a shit about the story-game version of Earthdawn.
Quote from: Dammi;895640Ah, so you displayed your splendid behavior on a RedBrick forum and got yourself shown out. That explains a lot.
I was trying really hard to bite my tongue and not get involved in this but holy crap! I got banned from the forums for daring to ask when Age of Legend -- the Earthdawn D&D 4th edition conversion -- was going to happen. You were at least silently complicit in the bullshit that was happening on the forums and now you are trying to dump on other people? Don't bother answering since you're going on ignore.
Please blame me for everything. No need to ignore, I'm out. Y'all win.
Quote from: Anglachel;895170Ok, so evasive bullshit is all you got. Disappointing.
Where did ya go?
Don't be smack talking and unwilling to man up when proven wrong.
Quote from: Sommerjon;895185You give nothing beside "it's da best" and you call me evasive?
No, i asked you a question and all you gave me was evasive bullshit. On top of that, you still have not answered the question. And you seem to confuse a lot of things...for example fluff and rules.
Personal taste in what is in a circle or discipline or whatever or what does better reflect the world (in your opinion, anyway) is not what i was talking about.
But again, all i was looking for was an answer to why YOU think 3e is so bad. I was not, and am still not, interested in a pissing contest about (your) ED taste.
Quote from: Anglachel;896142No, i asked you a question and all you gave me was evasive bullshit. On top of that, you still have not answered the question. And you seem to confuse a lot of things...for example fluff and rules.
Personal taste in what is in a circle or discipline or whatever or what does better reflect the world (in your opinion, anyway) is not what i was talking about.
But again, all i was looking for was an answer to why YOU think 3e is so bad. I was not, and am still not, interested in a pissing contest about (your) ED taste.
What da fuck are you babbling about? Evidently you forgot what you said.
Quote from: Anglachel;895041What's so bad about 3e?
Rules-wise, it was the best iteration so far. So i guess you didn't like the fluff?
My response appears to be too much for you to understand, let me change this to help you understand where your
'Rules-wise, it was the best iteration so far.' is wrong
Qualifying for fifth circle.
1e/2e: Of the 13 talents 8 are needed at rank 5, of those 8, 1 talent has to be from fourth circle
3e: Of the 13 talents the 8 discipline talents are needed at rank 5
Which is better?
1e/2e has only 1 stipulation. 3e has an ever increasing number of stipulations.
According to you 3e is better? How?
You seem to want a ten word answer, I can do that
The crinkly nuances of the system was ironed into blandness.
Quote from: Sommerjon;895643A. It has gone no where.
WTF are the setting book and rules book for Equinox that I own, then?
Quote from: AsenRG;896387WTF are the setting book and rules book for Equinox that I own, then?
Owning a copy of equinox doesn't mean it went someplace.
Quote from: Sommerjon;896408Owning a copy of equinox doesn't mean it went someplace.
Actually, it means exactly that. It means it went to DTRPG, at least.
Way too many projects don't get there.
Quote from: AsenRG;896511Actually, it means exactly that. It means it went to DTRPG, at least.
Way too many projects don't get there.
ROTFLMAO.
Drivethrurpg =/= going someplace.
Lets look at the forums for equinox.
35 topics since Jan. 16, 2012. 6 of those topics started by the designer
G+ page 150 peeps.
It didn't go anywheres.
Quote from: Sommerjon;896539ROTFLMAO.
Drivethrurpg =/= going someplace.
Lets look at the forums for equinox.
35 topics since Jan. 16, 2012. 6 of those topics started by the designer
G+ page 150 peeps.
It didn't go anywheres.
Because forum activity totally defines whether a game is getting played, or would be fun to play. Got your point;).
And since I don't start threads about them, my campaigns in homebrew systems and settings have never happened, right:D?
Why are we still engaging Jon? It's clear he's not even remotely objective about this. He's clearly got this hatred against this one person, and nothing that anyone says will change his vitriol. Let it go.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;896650Why are we still engaging Jon? It's clear he's not even remotely objective about this. He's clearly got this hatred against this one person, and nothing that anyone says will change his vitriol. Let it go.
For fun.
Quote from: AsenRG;896597Because forum activity totally defines whether a game is getting played, or would be fun to play. Got your point;).
Yes. If no one is talking about your product then your product wasn't successful.
If you have to google your own product to see if anyone is talking about it, the product isn't successful.
Nowhere
:adjective: having no prospect of progress or success.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;896650Why are we still engaging Jon? It's clear he's not even remotely objective about this. He's clearly got this hatred against this one person, and nothing that anyone says will change his vitriol. Let it go.
You need someone to rub it and make it feel better?
Well, this nonsense has put me off caring about Earthdawn for another couple of years.
Quote from: Sommerjon;896711Yes. If no one is talking about your product then your product wasn't successful.
If you have to google your own product to see if anyone is talking about it, the product isn't successful.
That's because you're approaching this as someone who's running a gaming company:). Which, unless you are running one, is theorywank (and if you are running one, is "commenting on the products of your competitors").
I'm approaching it as a GM/player who might want to run Equinox or lure a GM to run it for me. To me, it's a
practical consideration. The game is either good, or it isn't. And popularity, let me repeat, has at best a tangential relationship to that (or, in some cases, is totally unrelated:D)!
Quote from: Mostlyjoe;896726Well, this nonsense has put me off care about Earthdawn for another couple of years.
If you mean the thread, I'd understand;).
Quote from: AsenRG;896727That's because you're approaching this as someone who's running a gaming company:). Which, unless you are running one, is theorywank (and if you are running one, is "commenting on the products of your competitors").
I'm approaching it as a GM/player who might want to run Equinox or lure a GM to run it for me. To me, it's a practical consideration. The game is either good, or it isn't. And popularity, let me repeat, has at best a tangential relationship to that (or, in some cases, is totally unrelated:D)!
And people wonder why the RPG industry has gone down the shitter.
Quote from: Sommerjon;897039And people wonder why the RPG industry has gone down the shitter.
Nah, people wonder why people think it's gone down the shitter when actually a wealth of gaming options still being sold.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;897059Nah, people wonder why people think it's gone down the shitter when actually a wealth of gaming options still being sold.
People would rather have small, but quality options then a wealth of mediocrity.
Quote from: Sommerjon;897039And people wonder why the RPG industry has gone down the shitter.
Even a quick visit to RPGNow should prove you that it has not...
Wait, do you mean that in your opinion, the RPG industry has "gone under" because people aren't thinking like game designers:D?
Quote from: Sommerjon;897171People would rather have small, but quality options then a wealth of mediocrity.
"Lots of quality options and an equal number of not such a great quality" is what we've got now, unlike before the explosion of small press publishers, when we had a dearth of options, half of which also sucked;).
Quote from: AsenRG;897174"Lots of quality options and an equal number of not such a great quality" is what we've got now, unlike before the explosion of small press publishers, when we had a dearth of options, half of which also sucked;).
Yeah, sure there's lot of cool older stuff, but there's also been an absolute overabundance of cool things coming out in recent years that I want to play. Like so much that I just know I'm never going to get to play it all. Sure, there's a bunch of material that's not interesting to me, of low quality, or even both, but . . . wow, I'd be lying if I said the amount of awesome stuff available was less now than it was at any time in the past. That's just objectively not true.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;897250Yeah, sure there's lot of cool older stuff, but there's also been an absolute overabundance of cool things coming out in recent years that I want to play. Like so much that I just know I'm never going to get to play it all. Sure, there's a bunch of material that's not interesting to me, of low quality, or even both, but . . . wow, I'd be lying if I said the amount of awesome stuff available was less now than it was at any time in the past. That's just objectively not true.
I obviously agree, what else can I say:)?