Galactus help me... I may be getting into Dwarven Forge.
So I retooled some of the rules for Savage Worlds Pathfinder to fit closer to 1e Greybox Forgotten Realms (It's still a work in progress but I've done quite a bit). And we've been playing and it's fun as hell. We even broke out the battlemat and figures... and the snowball got rolling. I found myself using the Chase Rules and we're doing running skirmishes with goblin hordes in the forests... and soon we'll be dungeon/cavern-crawling... and while I've resisted it for years, I started taking notice that most of our combats on the battlemap were *well* within the constraints of even the Dwarven Forge starter kits... barely. And I suspect that's largely for simplicity's sake for the mat.
My thoughts are if I were using Dwarven Forge set-pieces - my players would naturally start doing *more* within the constraints of the battlefield, and it would be more dynamic (and immersive).
I'm actually painting figures again and having some of my players over to the palazzo on Friday nights for grilling and painting (can't paint without beef in the stomach it's a Texas law). So I'm seriously considering picking up Dwarven Forge stuff in the very near future.
I'd like to hear any and all opinions on where to start? Painted or unpainted? Storage? Should I buy used? Any issues I need to know about?
My current plan is to pick up two sets of the Cavern Core megapacks then build from there. Once I have enough for all the underground crawling I'll start working on the Dungeon and Wilderness then City stuff in that order.
Just start building your own stuff... it's way cheaper. :)
Over this past weekend I built these two raised tiles and the elevation change tiles for and upcoming game for specific rooms I needed for that adventure, but that match up with my other modular cavern and dungeon tiles.
(http://mithgarthrentertainm.ipage.com/images/terrain/IMG_20210911_151154.jpg)
(http://mithgarthrentertainm.ipage.com/images/terrain/IMG_4095.jpg)
(http://mithgarthrentertainm.ipage.com/images/terrain/IMG_4108.jpg)
(http://mithgarthrentertainm.ipage.com/images/terrain/IMG_4111.jpg)
I really do love using terrain... combats get way more tactical and inventive (being able to visualize the space helps players think more in 3D with their actions, I've found), and there's nothing better than pulling out a new big build for a wicked boss fight or something to get oohs and aahs from your group.
I am that guy. But I got a LOT going on right now.
I'm designing a game for publication, work, family, GMing, plus picking up painting figures again. I simply don't have the time.
I do have to say - I LOVE those for risers and I could see myself doing some ghetto-versions of those until I bought more DF pieces. So you're giving me some good ideas already.
Side note - did you paint those minis? great work!
Id suggest start slow. Try out Fat Dragon Cardstock dungeon tiles. Way cheaper (you can start with a free sampler), and its a good way to test the idea before devoting a bunch of money on solid tiles.
They don't take nearly as much money or time to build (its akin to the effort of painting minifigs).
If you have access to a 3D printer and a skilled print technician you could do the same thing but with printable 3D tiles.
(http://www.fatdragongames.com/images/FDG0059A10.jpg)
Its less glamarous but it doesn't cost a ton of money per tile.
Yeah man, I feel that... work, two kids, two games, writing the follow-up to my last module (https://princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com/2021/09/09/no-artpunk-entry-7-the-valley-of-karaccia/)... I rarely have time to craft anymore. To be honest, the only reason I got this built was because I forced myself, haha. I'd been sitting at about ~80% of RC2 done for the last couple of months and have been struggling with writing/design block for the final big. I figured if I physically built the encounters, then writing it out afterwards would be easy. (It worked, BTW, I've gotten a couple of pages banged out just today for it.)
What's rad about DF though is you can buy the sets to have your basics covered, then you can just craft set piece rooms yourself. Definitely a huge time saver if that route's taken.
And I did indeed paint the minis, thanks!! :D
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 13, 2021, 07:34:11 PM
Id suggest start slow. Try out Fat Dragon Cardstock dungeon tiles. Way cheaper (you can start with a free sampler), and its a good way to test the idea before devoting a bunch of money on solid tiles.
They don't take nearly as much money or time to build (its akin to the effort of painting minifigs).
If you have access to a 3D printer and a skilled print technician you could do the same thing but with printable 3D tiles.
Now you're going to get me into 3d printing? You think if I got into 3d printing I'd stop at making dungeon tiles?!??!?!
I'll check out Fat Dragon!!! thanks for the tip!
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 13, 2021, 07:34:11 PM
Id suggest start slow. Try out Fat Dragon Cardstock dungeon tiles. Way cheaper (you can start with a free sampler), and its a good way to test the idea before devoting a bunch of money on solid tiles.
They don't take nearly as much money or time to build (its akin to the effort of painting minifigs).
If you have access to a 3D printer and a skilled print technician you could do the same thing but with printable 3D tiles.
If I had the money to buy a 3D printer or access to it I would go this route:
https://www.thingiverse.com/devonjones/collections/openforge-2-dungeon-stone-series (https://www.thingiverse.com/devonjones/collections/openforge-2-dungeon-stone-series)
https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:dungeon_tiles (https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:dungeon_tiles)
https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=dungeon+tiles&dwh=685c9dd21d6015d&type=things&sort=relevant (https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=dungeon+tiles&dwh=685c9dd21d6015d&type=things&sort=relevant)
https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:dungeons_and_dragons (https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:dungeons_and_dragons)
https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:dnd_miniature (https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:dnd_miniature)
https://www.thingiverse.com/search?sort=relevant&q=dungeons+and+dragons+miniatures&type=things&dwh=35e2af7fa6357e&page=1 (https://www.thingiverse.com/search?sort=relevant&q=dungeons+and+dragons+miniatures&type=things&dwh=35e2af7fa6357e&page=1)
Just saying.
It sounds a little bit like you are getting into skirmish gaming with rpg elements or some narrative laid over the top.
Maybe look up the old Savage World "Showdown" rules if they are still around.
I bought a lot of Dwarven Forge's original vinyl tile shortly after their Kickstarter delivered at a garage sale. They were very cheap. A guy's girlfriend was obviously making him sell them. I felt bad but I bought them. I gave them to a friend who was thinking of buy them and bought myself some MDF kits and early neoprene map mats instead and a dry erase treated Square and hex transparent overlay. They looked nice and my friend was very happy but they were unpainted and last I heard he was trying to come up with a nice assembly line system that got consistent results between batches. He hasn't brought them out since then so most of them are probably stored in an attic.
I did 3d printing for a while but somehow I did more mechs and tanks type stuff instead of elven towers built into trees and stuff.
Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 13, 2021, 07:35:07 PM
Yeah man, I feel that... work, two kids, two games, writing the follow-up to my last module (https://princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com/2021/09/09/no-artpunk-entry-7-the-valley-of-karaccia/)... I rarely have time to craft anymore. To be honest, the only reason I got this built was because I forced myself, haha. I'd been sitting at about ~80% of RC2 done for the last couple of months and have been struggling with writing/design block for the final big. I figured if I physically built the encounters, then writing it out afterwards would be easy. (It worked, BTW, I've gotten a couple of pages banged out just today for it.)
What's rad about DF though is you can buy the sets to have your basics covered, then you can just craft set piece rooms yourself. Definitely a huge time saver if that route's taken.
And I did indeed paint the minis, thanks!! :D
Prince of Nothing - you have excellent taste sir. R. Scott Bakker is insanely good... but not something I recommend to those without durable sensibilities, heh.
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 13, 2021, 07:34:11 PM
Id suggest start slow. Try out Fat Dragon Cardstock dungeon tiles. Way cheaper (you can start with a free sampler), and its a good way to test the idea before devoting a bunch of money on solid tiles.
They don't take nearly as much money or time to build (its akin to the effort of painting minifigs).
If you have access to a 3D printer and a skilled print technician you could do the same thing but with printable 3D tiles.
Now you're going to get me into 3d printing? You think if I got into 3d printing I'd stop at making dungeon tiles?!??!?!
I'll check out Fat Dragon!!! thanks for the tip!
Worth checking and the PDFs are PWYW in DTRPG https://www.youtube.com/c/CrookedStaffTerrain (https://www.youtube.com/c/CrookedStaffTerrain)
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 07:44:21 PM
Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 13, 2021, 07:35:07 PM
Yeah man, I feel that... work, two kids, two games, writing the follow-up to my last module (https://princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com/2021/09/09/no-artpunk-entry-7-the-valley-of-karaccia/)... I rarely have time to craft anymore. To be honest, the only reason I got this built was because I forced myself, haha. I'd been sitting at about ~80% of RC2 done for the last couple of months and have been struggling with writing/design block for the final big. I figured if I physically built the encounters, then writing it out afterwards would be easy. (It worked, BTW, I've gotten a couple of pages banged out just today for it.)
What's rad about DF though is you can buy the sets to have your basics covered, then you can just craft set piece rooms yourself. Definitely a huge time saver if that route's taken.
And I did indeed paint the minis, thanks!! :D
Prince of Nothing - you have excellent taste sir. R. Scott Bakker is insanely good... but not something I recommend to those without durable sensibilities, heh.
Well then, be sure and read his review there of my shit. 8)
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2021, 07:42:36 PMIf I had the money to buy a 3D printer or access to it I would go this route:
It is a hassle though. 3D printing takes about as much effort as assembling and painting a Warhammer minifig. And Im a guy with printed 3D terrain (well a little bit anyway).
Quote from: palaeomerus on September 13, 2021, 07:42:54 PM
It sounds a little bit like you are getting into skirmish gaming with rpg elements or some narrative laid over the top.
Maybe look up the old Savage World "Showdown" rules if they are still around.
I bought a lot of Dwarven Forge's original vinyl tile shortly after their Kickstarter delivered at a garage sale. They were very cheap. A guy's girlfriend was obviously making him sell them. I felt bad but I bought them. I gave them to a friend who was thinking of buy them and bought myself some MDF kits and early neoprene map mats instead and a dry erase treated Square and hex transparent overlay. They looked nice and my friend was very happy but they were unpainted and last I heard he was trying to come up with a nice assembly line system that got consistent results between batches. He hasn't brought them out since then so most of them are probably stored in an attic.
Yeah it's definitely that. But....
I figure DF will be a lifelong commitment. They're practically indestructible and I'll definitely use them if I buy them. All the new stuff from DF is made of their composite material that others have said are super strong, and they have magnetic inserts. Of course you're paying for that production.
Money is less of an issue for me (unless I go hog wild and start dropping thousands in - which I'm not going to do with my other hobbies needing supporting heh), but I do care about quality and longevity. These bad boys will get some use.
If I had a *significantly* cheaper option that didn't require my own precious time, that measured up in quality I'll definitely consider it..
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 07:49:15 PMIf I had a *significantly* cheaper option that didn't require my own precious time, that measured up in quality I'll definitely consider it..
I have used services before that 3D printed stuff FOR me. Depending if there is one nearby, that could be a good way to get the parts you want without needing thousands of bucks.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 13, 2021, 07:48:06 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2021, 07:42:36 PMIf I had the money to buy a 3D printer or access to it I would go this route:
It is a hassle though. 3D printing takes about as much effort as assembling and painting a Warhammer minifig. And Im a guy with printed 3D terrain (well a little bit anyway).
Not to mention the space to keep all the 3D stuff. My print and paste tiles and my 2D printed standup miniatures take very little space plus it's very cheap.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2021, 07:55:17 PMNot to mention the space to keep all the 3D stuff.
If you get the proper modular tiles (tiles separate from walls), it doesn't actually take up all that much space. And since its hard plastic, you can just shove em in a tuppaware box or a large scale tuppaware box from Home Depo.
Printable Scenery has some really nice 3d printable buildings. You want to use an good sized FDM printer. Don't waste money on a giant SLA for terrain stuff. MDF slinging ABS is usually fine. Ender 3 clone should be a good start. When you get that all figured out a CR-10 clone is usually big enough for most people.
Save SLA for characters and statues and such.
If you go with Dwarven Forge, I'd recommend painted over unpainted. Unpainted is cheaper, but given the time it would take me to paint them I found the cost difference to be well worth it.
Though a few years back I switched from DF to 3D printed terrain. For the size of the layouts I wanted to do, it was far cheaper to print my terrain rather than buy DF (and that includes the cost of the printer - but I print a lot of terrain).
Here's a few examples:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/h24rwby59krkjuh/dungeon.png?raw=1)
A small dungeon with Dragonlock (Fat Dragon) tiles
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7guq7n9q0axp3y/wild.png?raw=1)
Close up of a modular hex-tile set up I put together (the trees and flocking are obviously not printed; they're Woodland Scenics)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xerddgi5vqk1pj5/IMG_2470.png?raw=1)
The building and bridge/stairs are printed, the other stuff is pre-made from various other companies.
3D printing miniatures & terrain often makes a lot more sense with a resin printer; you can print a whole tray-full of minis in the time it would take to print a single mini with the same printer (just a few hours), and at much higher quality than FDM (the heated nozzle printers). These days, you can get jewelry-grade resin printers for ~$200.
The learning curve for operating a printer is high enough that it won't be worth it for many people, but if you've learned your way around Photoshop or Adobe Premiere or a similarly-technical software (and you wouldn't mind learning something new), 3D printing is definitely something to look into.
This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAUCfU-i0yI) provides a good overview of what the whole process looks like, including a realistic presentation of pros/cons. After watching, you'll probably know for sure whether you'd love or hate printing (I love it).
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PMMy thoughts are if I were using Dwarven Forge set-pieces - my players would naturally start doing *more* within the constraints of the battlefield, and it would be more dynamic (and immersive).
I own a ton of Dwarven Forge and used it back in my 3e days. However, I did have one huge problem; the squares on my original Master Maze sets were 25mm and not 1". The difference is just enough that the Dwarven Forge pieces didn't quite fit with pieces that used 1" square and miniatures on a 1" base didn't fit in the squares.
From their webpage, it seems that they switched over to 1" squares but I'm not sure when this happened or if all their sets are this way now.
[EDIT] One other thing ... from my experience the walls on the tiles aren't really necessary and are more of a hindrance to play. Just having floor tiles laid out works a bit better and looks almost as good.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 14, 2021, 08:00:59 AM
[EDIT] One other thing ... from my experience the walls on the tiles aren't really necessary and are more of a hindrance to play. Just having floor tiles laid out works a bit better and looks almost as good.
Absolutely. They look great, but walls really do get in the way. My cavern tiles I make have short ones that aren't too intrusive, but my dungeon tiles don't use walls at all:
(http://mithgarthr.com/images/tiles.jpg)
Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 14, 2021, 09:09:13 AM(http://mithgarthr.com/images/tiles.jpg)
Are those the old Heroquest skeletons?
Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 14, 2021, 09:19:47 AM
Are those the old Heroquest skeletons?
You're goddamn right they are. 8) That ogre with the yellow shirt is from HQ, also (Against the Ogre Horde).
Quote from: Oddend on September 13, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
3D printing miniatures & terrain often makes a lot more sense with a resin printer; you can print a whole tray-full of minis in the time it would take to print a single mini with the same printer (just a few hours), and at much higher quality than FDM (the heated nozzle printers). These days, you can get jewelry-grade resin printers for ~$200.
Maybe worth going resin for miniatures - but definitely not for terrain. The printer itself may even cost less than a higher-end FDM printer, but that ignores the extra process involved such as needing UV lights and cleaning up the minis with an alcohol vat etc.
And more importantly for something bulky like terrain - the resin itself is WAY more expensive than FDM printing something like PLA. For miniatures the slight upgrade in quality may be worthwhile (though with my *meh* painting skill - probably not for me personally) but definitely not for terrain. (Note: I don't have a 3d printer - but I've been on a binge of youtube videos about it recently and it may be my next big Christmas gift to me - maybe in a year or three when my kid is old enough to justify it by making little toys for him.)
Quote from: Oddend on September 13, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
3D printing miniatures & terrain often makes a lot more sense with a resin printer; you can print a whole tray-full of minis in the time it would take to print a single mini with the same printer (just a few hours), and at much higher quality than FDM (the heated nozzle printers). These days, you can get jewelry-grade resin printers for ~$200.
The learning curve for operating a printer is high enough that it won't be worth it for many people, but if you've learned your way around Photoshop or Adobe Premiere or a similarly-technical software (and you wouldn't mind learning something new), 3D printing is definitely something to look into.
Both you and Kanyenya make some strong cases for me to seriously consider 3d printing. I'm a "technical" guy by trade, I love learning new stuff if it is of interest - and 3d printing has been of interest to me for a long time and I've avoided it because I'm leery of how much it would swallow up my small amounts of free time. Grrr... you guys are making this hard for me in a good way.
@Kanyenya - love those setpieces you printed. Is that building modular? I assume you can pull off the roof and do stuff inside it right? Man that looks awesome.
Dragonlock - I've watched some reviews about it, and they say it's very good but it's comparatively brittle. A couple of reviewers have said the wall pieces separate (i.e. break) from the floor tiles very easily. I'm not sure when those videos were made and if the quality has gone up.
I can very easily see myself getting into 3d printing (for a variety of other reasons - I considered getting a 3d printer a year or so ago to supplement my firearms hobby), so it'll likely happen at some point... but now? HMMmmmm the gravity is pulling at me.
what's the quality like for 3d printed figures?
Edit: you bastards are pulling me into a new hobby... must... resist...
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on September 14, 2021, 09:49:00 AM
Maybe worth going resin for miniatures - but definitely not for terrain. The printer itself may even cost less than a higher-end FDM printer, but that ignores the extra process involved such as needing UV lights and cleaning up the minis with an alcohol vat etc.
And more importantly for something bulky like terrain - the resin itself is WAY more expensive than FDM printing something like PLA. For miniatures the slight upgrade in quality may be worthwhile (though with my *meh* painting skill - probably not for me personally) but definitely not for terrain. (Note: I don't have a 3d printer - but I've been on a binge of youtube videos about it recently and it may be my next big Christmas gift to me - maybe in a year or three when my kid is old enough to justify it by making little toys for him.)
Agree that you want FDM for terrain, but for minis there's much more than a "slight upgrade" in quality with resin. For minis that are designed for FDM (like from Fat Dragon), if your printer is really dialed in you can get quality that is close enough to resin. But those figs tend to be stout/bulky by necessity. For something more akin to what you'd buy from Reaper or Darksword, resin is the way to go. The minis below were printed in resin; I can't see someone getting anywhere near that quality with FDM:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ayjohz5zivfhmw/skel.png?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/q1dzev7atafq0q1/warlord.png?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qo8s7wc6cx450nq/lamashtu.png?raw=1)
That said, there's a lot more hassle with resin - managing the fumes from printing, the washing/curing, the toxicity of uncured resin, support removal, etc.
Quote from: tenbones on September 14, 2021, 10:00:48 AM
what's the quality like for 3d printed figures?
Edit: you bastards are pulling me into a new hobby... must... resist...
Depends upon the printer and if it's FDM or resin. Comparison video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBYs7ArHPKQ&ab_channel=UncleJessy
Resin will be better - but whether it's ENOUGH better likely depends how finicky you are - and how good of a painter.
Note: This video is with the cheapo FDM printer - others have somewhat better quality. I know that I'm eyeing the Prusa mini - which has about x2 the base price but has a rep for quality and not needing the tweaking that other FDM printers do.
Quote from: Kanyenya on September 14, 2021, 10:10:07 AM
That said, there's a lot more hassle with resin - managing the fumes from printing, the washing/curing, the toxicity of uncured resin, support removal, etc.
That part of it is why if I ever pull the trigger I'll stick with FDM. Plus - I'd expect to use it more for terrain than anything else anyway - which resin is a bad value for.
As a Prusa MK 3 Guy - 3D printing of any kind requires dedication, time and space....And some level of money.
Id say go FDM for minis unless you want something like a Wargame minis quality.
Quote from: tenbones on September 14, 2021, 10:00:48 AM
what's the quality like for 3d printed figures?
Edit: you bastards are pulling me into a new hobby... must... resist...
They can be really high quality. I just started printing this last summer, so if I can help at all let me know.
If you want smaller terrain, then resin can be a good way to go. You want FDM for terrain though, as its just a hassle to print those larger pieces in resin.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on September 14, 2021, 09:49:00 AM
Quote from: Oddend on September 13, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
3D printing miniatures & terrain often makes a lot more sense with a resin printer; you can print a whole tray-full of minis in the time it would take to print a single mini with the same printer (just a few hours), and at much higher quality than FDM (the heated nozzle printers). These days, you can get jewelry-grade resin printers for ~$200.
Maybe worth going resin for miniatures - but definitely not for terrain. The printer itself may even cost less than a higher-end FDM printer, but that ignores the extra process involved such as needing UV lights and cleaning up the minis with an alcohol vat etc.
And more importantly for something bulky like terrain - the resin itself is WAY more expensive than FDM printing something like PLA. For miniatures the slight upgrade in quality may be worthwhile (though with my *meh* painting skill - probably not for me personally) but definitely not for terrain. (Note: I don't have a 3d printer - but I've been on a binge of youtube videos about it recently and it may be my next big Christmas gift to me - maybe in a year or three when my kid is old enough to justify it by making little toys for him.)
Yeah, I should have said "small scenery props" or something. FDM definitely makes sense for large structures. Even minis are achievable if your expectations aren't too high, or if you can go with a larger scale than usual.
For me, I'd rather print even-smaller-scale stuff (like the old Battle of the Five Armies (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/16538/battle-five-armies) wargame). I live in a small house. :'( ;D
Quote from: Oddend on September 14, 2021, 01:19:21 PM
Even minis are achievable if your expectations aren't too high, or if you can go with a larger scale than usual.
Yeah - my mini painting skill is 'fine' - so the boosted mini quality I'd get from a resin printer would largely go to waste anyway. Though Kanyenya is probably right that I'd have to give up on printing some of the more extreme fine-pieced miniatures as well.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 14, 2021, 10:55:18 AM
As a Prusa MK 3 Guy - 3D printing of any kind requires dedication, time and space....And some level of money.
Id say go FDM for minis unless you want something like a Wargame minis quality.
Nice - Prusa is the brand I've tentatively wishlisted due the apparent quality control - though I'd probably go with the mini. Both because it's about half the cost and (per reviews) is closer to a plug-and-play, taking only an hour or less to set up.
Any major complaints with your machine?
Quote from: tenbones on September 14, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: Oddend on September 13, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
...
The learning curve for operating a printer is high enough that it won't be worth it for many people, but if you've learned your way around Photoshop or Adobe Premiere or a similarly-technical software (and you wouldn't mind learning something new), 3D printing is definitely something to look into.
Both you and Kanyenya make some strong cases for me to seriously consider 3d printing. I'm a "technical" guy by trade, I love learning new stuff if it is of interest - and 3d printing has been of interest to me for a long time and I've avoided it because I'm leery of how much it would swallow up my small amounts of free time. Grrr... you guys are making this hard for me in a good way.
:) I've found the learning curve depends a lot on the printer you get. They all require some kind of maintenance, but for some it's minimal, others a lot more is required. I have two FDM printers, a Prusa MK3 and a Prusa Mini. The MK3 has been chugging along for over two years and the only thing I generally have to do is wipe down the print bed with isopropyl alcohol every couple of weeks and lube the rods maybe twice a year. I did have to replace the nozzle once, but otherwise it's mostly fire-and-forget. My Mini has been down for awhile due to a bad clog I've been too lazy to do anything about. Since I can print on my MK3, and I have more than enough to paint yet, I haven't been in a hurry to get that one up and going.
Quote
@Kanyenya - love those setpieces you printed. Is that building modular? I assume you can pull off the roof and do stuff inside it right? Man that looks awesome.
Yep; it's actually two separate buildings, with the middle piece designed to join them into a single building. The interiors are all detailed. Most of the buildings I've run across are like that, which is nice. Here's a picture of the floors disassembled:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgkoifljwu8v5eu/interiors.png?raw=1)
Quote
Dragonlock - I've watched some reviews about it, and they say it's very good but it's comparatively brittle. A couple of reviewers have said the wall pieces separate (i.e. break) from the floor tiles very easily. I'm not sure when those videos were made and if the quality has gone up.
I've been using Dragonlock tiles for years now and I haven't had any issues with breakage. They probably would break if I dropped them on a cement floor, but fortunately that hasn't happened :) The material most people use for terrain is PLA, which can be brittle, but there are other materials you can use that are more durable, like ABS or PETG. They're not quite as easy to get good results from as PLA from what I understand, though I haven't tried ABS myself (I did try PETG but I didn't have good luck).
As a side note: For resin terrain I would go the true DIY way, crat a few tiles, use them to cast silicone molds, use the molds to cast an almost infinite amount of tiles with way cheaper resin than the UV curing type.
Hell you can even use color straight into the resin so you need to paint less.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 14, 2021, 07:50:06 PM
As a side note: For resin terrain I would go the true DIY way, crat a few tiles, use them to cast silicone molds, use the molds to cast an almost infinite amount of tiles with way cheaper resin than the UV curing type.
Hell you can even use color straight into the resin so you need to paint less.
I recently stumbled upon a really cool channel around casting: https://youtu.be/Rw1NzWHwqH8
I do a lot of 3D printing.
Dragonlock terrain is high quality and prints well. They are running a Kickstarter now and the existing art is super cheap as an add-on. It is meant for FDM printing and they do have some miniatures specifically made for FDM as well.
I own 3 resin printers (elegoo Mars, Mars Pro and Mars 2) and they each work well. Resin printing much better for miniatures. A little messy but if you are careful no big deal.
The initial printer cost plus learning curve is about $200 to $250. After that, terrain is very inexpensive.
I find that for set piece battles, terrain makes it special.
Last crafting project I had for gaming was making some foamboard tiles and twist-tie minis as my own method ends up at about 25mm scale and can make pretty much anything.
Foamboard is fairly cheap to get from any dollar store for a dollar. Is light and thus easy to transport.
I think what I'm going to do is paint up my figures I currently have.
Then I'm gonna buy some basic DF sets, and get some 3d printed pieces for accessories before I eventually dive into 3d printing. That'll be a ways out. I have some major purchases to make for some of my other hobbies that are currently taking precedent... but I think 3d printing will dovetail with them too.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on September 14, 2021, 02:35:56 PM
Nice - Prusa is the brand I've tentatively wishlisted due the apparent quality control - though I'd probably go with the mini. Both because it's about half the cost and (per reviews) is closer to a plug-and-play, taking only an hour or less to set up.
Any major complaints with your machine?
Prusa makes nice machines with some friendly options but the biggest part of their price is support. You get to call them and email them for advice. That's even if you buy one of their kits and build it yourself.
If you go with Creality or a re-badge place like Monoprice then you are stuck with talking to fellow users online to get your problems solved. So if you choose one of those budget brands make sure it is a popular one that is widely bought and used so you have a lot of fellow customers to serve as a knowledge base to learn from.
And if you are a curious inventive self starter who sees the thing as a lab project and you might even want to look into hacking it or improving it THEN you can buy one of the weirder ones confident that you will overcome anything that might serve as an obstacle to your using the thing.
Black Magic Craft
https://www.youtube.com/c/BlackMagicCraftOfficial
3D Printed Tabletop
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_uz-iWzyR1VJNlN-E1y7w
Crafting Brothers
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEc09OOSKWQCbhXslQZdqhQ
Quote from: tenbones on September 15, 2021, 05:02:46 PMThen I'm gonna buy some basic DF sets, and get some 3d printed pieces for accessories before I eventually dive into 3d printing. That'll be a ways out. I have some major purchases to make for some of my other hobbies that are currently taking precedent... but I think 3d printing will dovetail with them too.
Again try out Fat Dragon games EZ terrain first. It will let you get a 'feel' for terrain first. In addition its WAY faster then 3D printing.
If you go with 3d printer and FDM get an Ender 3. It's exceptionally well supported by Fat Dragon.
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
Galactus help me... I may be getting into Dwarven Forge.
You are officially damned
I'm actually painting figures again and having some of my players over to the palazzo on Friday nights for grilling and painting (can't paint without beef in the stomach it's a Texas law). So I'm seriously considering picking up Dwarven Forge stuff in the very near future.
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
I'd like to hear any and all opinions on where to start?
Because I like running sandbox campaign I want to build things on the fly. After getting in on several of their dwarvenite kickstarters, their current offering break down into two categories. Modular Stuff you can build on the fly with and stuff you build dioramas with. The Diorama sets require to preassemble something set it aside and then pull it out complete when you want to use it. While technically modular, the assembly process is such you can't assemble it in a reasonable amount of time during a session like you can the modular kit.
This show the result of using a modular set which I could (and have) built on the fly without bogging down the session. You have to be organized and have practiced before hand.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WKiylxmvg1k/VJezGPxtvAI/AAAAAAAALR8/_zbT9iCkcuw/s1600/IMG_2304.JPG)
This is the one diorama style set I got the Dwarvenite City. I was disappointed as it didn't work out well for how I use Dwarven Forge. But if prebuilding stuff works with your style then it is very good. Because of this when I had the opportunity I bought two more Resin Medieval building sets which are better for modular builds. The slowdown is a result of using pegs into a base then sliding walls in between. I will say if you have the $$$ the result can be spectacular and eminently usable during a session. As long as you prebuild it.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aB7E-CifMWk/VqZ16RHeyJI/AAAAAAAAMxg/XkserYb9mZo/s1600/File%2BJan%2B25%252C%2B2%2B17%2B25%2BPM.jpeg)
ModularDungeon (Dwarvenite or Resin)
Cavern (Dwarvenite or Resin)
Medieval Building Kit (Resin only)
DioramasCity (Dwarvenite)
Castles (Dwarvenite)
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
Painted or unpainted?
I went with unpainted for the Dungeon, and painted for the Caverns. It is straightforward work but a lot of it. I recommend using the paints they sell. You get a lot paint in a bottle, it applies wells, and holds up.
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PMStorage?
Ah you come to the master. What you need is the below. A tote with sterilite containers. I have three of them that contain all my dwarven and I can transport them anywhere I game.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bt3tShjAOPs/VJe2j6CZnFI/AAAAAAAALSo/WfXvTwzGaXg/s1600/IMG_2406.JPG)
One set I used with the Dwarvenite City Stuff.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S0N0aMW2Cvg/VqZ1v-rF0lI/AAAAAAAAMxY/dNQI-JzlIbE/s1600/File%2BJan%2B25%252C%2B2%2B17%2B01%2BPM.jpeg)
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PMShould I buy used?
Sure especially if was prepainted from Dwarven Forge.
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PMAny issues I need to know about?
So if you opt to build on the fly with the modular sets then have to practice to get a feel for the grain. When you draw a dungeon on a piece of graph paper, the walls fall equally on either side of the grid line. This is not the case with Dwarven Forge. The walls are on one side. For different sets you need to practice assembly them so when different section line up you don't get a discontinuity in the wall. It is not hard to learn it more of a side effect that most are not immediately aware of.
If your dungeon are all rooms and passages and not a compact maze then this won't be an issue. In general caverns are just rooms and passageways so this is not an issue with the cavern sets.
Next I think prebuilt layout with cloth covering the unexplored area are for the birds. In general I build out as the players explore tearing down stuff as they leave an area.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-F5osDLolboQ/Um3DrAD0NkI/AAAAAAAAJNk/Qx-jYTfpE0g/s1600/RSC+004.JPG)
I have a wooden yardstick I use to shove a section over to keep building. Mind you not the entire layout just the section behind the part. Also note I describe while I am building so while their is additional time, I am not stupidly doubling what it takes to setup an area.
Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
My current plan is to pick up two sets of the Cavern Core megapacks then build from there. Once I have enough for all the underground crawling I'll start working on the Dungeon and Wilderness then City stuff in that order.
Sure if caverns are more common adventuring local then that sounds good. If you do what I do you will find you only need enough for a) to build out the party area of awareness and b) variety of pieces to handle what you want to depict.
Hope this is helps. And here are some additional pics from my blog.
While I don't use this box any more this give you a sense of how I nest things in a tote.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HA-nJVPFGPo/UmiHakJ395I/AAAAAAAAJK4/XLF8dh5YQRM/s1600/RSC+010.JPG)
A compact maze built using Dwarven Forge. This was after the session as I built this on the fly. The place was small enough that I ruled that the party didn't lose situational awareness of the layout so I didn't tear anything down.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-L7Jzn7wq8tI/ViYxhyducaI/AAAAAAAAMpU/WivN5x-Awk4/s1600/Full%2BDungeon.jpg)
Awesome! That's pretty much exactly what I was wondering.
Now... I'm walking away thinking, not only am I going to do Dwarven Forge... I'm eyeballing 3d printers. Galactus had no chance...
Quote from: tenbones on September 16, 2021, 03:59:46 PM
Awesome! That's pretty much exactly what I was wondering.
Now... I'm walking away thinking, not only am I going to do Dwarven Forge... I'm eyeballing 3d printers. Galactus had no chance...
I just spent the last few months really getting to know all the ins and outs of 3d Printing. I'm no master, but I have learned quite a bit along the way. If you have any questions or need some insight into the extra costs/supplies that come with it don't hesitate to ask.
Quote from: tenbones on September 16, 2021, 03:59:46 PM
Now... I'm walking away thinking, not only am I going to do Dwarven Forge... I'm eyeballing 3d printers. Galactus had no chance...
The 3D stuff is not bad. I had a friend print me a green devil face that painted up nicely for Tomb of Horrors. As for 3D Printers in general the biggest issue is print time in volume. And then you have to paint them. If you have enough cash for your hobby, the ideal is to go with manufactured for your bulk terrain, and then 3d print the specials to get your variety.
Also look at etsy
https://www.etsy.com/search?q=dungeons+and+dragons+miniature&explicit=1&ref=s2qit&s2qii=3&s2qit=as&prq=dungeons+and+dragons
Quote from: estar on September 16, 2021, 04:16:33 PM
Quote from: tenbones on September 16, 2021, 03:59:46 PM
Now... I'm walking away thinking, not only am I going to do Dwarven Forge... I'm eyeballing 3d printers. Galactus had no chance...
The 3D stuff is not bad. I had a friend print me a green devil face that painted up nicely for Tomb of Horrors. As for 3D Printers in general the biggest issue is print time in volume. And then you have to paint them. If you have enough cash for your hobby, the ideal is to go with manufactured for your bulk terrain, and then 3d print the specials to get your variety.
Also look at etsy
https://www.etsy.com/search?q=dungeons+and+dragons+miniature&explicit=1&ref=s2qit&s2qii=3&s2qit=as&prq=dungeons+and+dragons
There's actually a lot of supporting materials and setup that go into 3D Printing. Most importantly, a workstation that allows you to safely handle the resin and IPA that you will be using during the curing and cleaning process. There are a LOT of little mistakes you make along the way that can end up adding up.
I can work up a shopping list if anyone is interested.
I agree though , I buy my larger terrain from FDM printers, and print smaller things for my personal needs.
I have an FDM 3D Printer (Anycubic) and I get some decent monsters out of it. Mostly monsters and low-def stuff, but my Tiamat paid for it.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/31NzNhwyUZ6R3rQw7)
After watching "Ultimate Dungeon Terrain for D&D & Pathfinder! (Ep. #67)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqhTiE7i84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqhTiE7i84) this is my go-to:
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/31NzNhwyUZ6R3rQw7)
I'm just bad at this picture sharing. https://photos.app.goo.gl/31NzNhwyUZ6R3rQw7
Okay you know it's a good print if I can see in your muddy picture your figure and instantly recognize the dragon types by their heads.
Yeah I've put it down on my list. 3d printing will be happening at some point in the near future.
https://www.etsy.com/shop/myrdin3d/
This is my small store. Unless you enjoy the process and the hobby, it is a matter of overcoming the initial cost and the time. Each wall plus 5' floor section takes about 4 hours to print. Those are all FDM, including the miniatures. The store pictures are fairly high resolution and close so you can see the printing artifacts.
So how toxic is the resin and the products? Give us the scoop!
Quote from: tenbones on September 17, 2021, 04:12:41 PM
So how toxic is the resin and the products? Give us the scoop!
This article is one of many that talk about resin toxicity: https://all3dp.com/2/sla-3d-printing-is-3d-printer-resin-toxic/ (https://all3dp.com/2/sla-3d-printing-is-3d-printer-resin-toxic/). 3D printing resin falls somewhere between Chernobyl and a can of Coke it would seem :)
I'm not an expert, but the main thing with resin is not to inhale the fumes and not to touch it. In rare cases, you can apparently develop an allergy to plastic/resins by repeatedly coming in contact with uncured resin. Regardless, it's still an irritant on your skin. When I print with resin I have a supply of nitrile gloves and 99% IPA for clean up. I also have my printer in a workshop behind my garage so I don't have to worry about fumes in the house.
Printer filters have gotten better over the past couple of years, and I believe the resins have been improved. There are resins that are plant-based and others that are water washable, so I imagine those are less toxic than typical resins, but probably still not something you want to take a swig of :) The key really is just to be careful and use common sense.
The other thing to keep in mind is that once the resin is cured, it's no more toxic than regular plastic.
Quote from: tenbones on September 17, 2021, 04:12:41 PM
So how toxic is the resin and the products? Give us the scoop!
They are an irritant more than anything. Think of most cleaning chemicals. Use in a well ventilated space and use gloves when you handle it. If you get it on your skin, wash it off right away with soap and water.
Not a huge deal unless you are or develop a sensitivity to it.
I have 3 different ones in my garage,
Need room temps (low 70's/ 20/21 depending on what system you use). Warmer is OK, the cooler it gets the less well the resin works.
I was just wondering if they were toxic-toxic - like carcinogenic or something. As I live in TX, being "too cold" won't be an issue for me unless it's the dead of winter, but even then I have a crafting room I'd likely put this machine in.
Hows the odor? Will it permanently stink up a room?
Or is this strictly a garage thing?
All comes to how well ventilated the room is. Plenty of people use them in their apartment. I barely notice the resin smell but the isopropyl alcohol (IPA) I do notice. You use IPA to clean the print and those fumes are flamable so I would crack open a window at least.
For the most part the fumes are more there when the resin is exposed to air and then go away. There is a cover over the printer, so when you load it up and take it off.
Think like primer paint or varish from a can. Noticible right when you use it and then goes away.
There seem to be two camps on the resin fumes. Some people will set up elaborate venting systems to pull the fumes from the printer and send them out a window. Others just leave the printer as-is. I don't know enough about the fumes to know whether the venting is wise or overly-paranoid. My experience with the fumes is similar to Myrdin's (and the IPA smell is always stronger, though I'm not concerned about IPA "fumes"). The fumes still aren't healthy, so I generally just try to stay out of the room the printer is in while it's printing. I do wear a KN95 mask (extras from work for Covid) when I've got the cover to the printer off, but I don't know how necessary that is (I often wear a mask when I'm priming terrain with spray paint as well, but that's mainly because of the smell of the paint).
Quote from: Myrdin Potter on September 17, 2021, 05:01:57 PM
All comes to how well ventilated the room is. Plenty of people use them in their apartment. I barely notice the resin smell but the isopropyl alcohol (IPA) I do notice. You use IPA to clean the print and those fumes are flamable so I would crack open a window at least.
For the most part the fumes are more there when the resin is exposed to air and then go away. There is a cover over the printer, so when you load it up and take it off.
Think like primer paint or varish from a can. Noticible right when you use it and then goes away.
So liable to close down my windpipe so tight I almost suffocate?
That happened to me once when we had a hardwood floor and were trying to re-varnish it ourselves, I almost died.
Quote from: tenbones on September 17, 2021, 03:19:09 PM
Okay you know it's a good print if I can see in your muddy picture your figure and instantly recognize the dragon types by their heads.
Well,
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dragons-color-coded-for-your-convenience/msg1146694/#msg1146694
FDM is decent for big monsters, terrain and other DM shenanigans. I'll echo the part about resin for detail, but FDM is just melting plastic and layering it a little at a time, so those of you with cats or youngins would benefit. Clean up is a snap.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 17, 2021, 05:12:12 PM
So liable to close down my windpipe so tight I almost suffocate?
That happened to me once when we had a hardwood floor and were trying to re-varnish it ourselves, I almost died.
Some people are quite sensitive to different chemical fumes. I don't know if this is the same, but I certainly would be very cautious if you have a sensitivity. Otherwise I don't know how you would react and there are different resins for different uses. Some people use full on chemical fume masks, I occassonaly get some on my hands and just wash it off.
Quote from: Myrdin Potter on September 17, 2021, 06:44:53 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 17, 2021, 05:12:12 PM
So liable to close down my windpipe so tight I almost suffocate?
That happened to me once when we had a hardwood floor and were trying to re-varnish it ourselves, I almost died.
Some people are quite sensitive to different chemical fumes. I don't know if this is the same, but I certainly would be very cautious if you have a sensitivity. Otherwise I don't know how you would react and there are different resins for different uses. Some people use full on chemical fume masks, I occassonaly get some on my hands and just wash it off.
Thanks for the info, I think I'll have to pass on the joys of 3D printing. (Says he as if he had the money to even dream of buying one anyway) ;D
Quote from: Myrdin Potter on September 17, 2021, 06:44:53 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 17, 2021, 05:12:12 PM
So liable to close down my windpipe so tight I almost suffocate?
That happened to me once when we had a hardwood floor and were trying to re-varnish it ourselves, I almost died.
Some people are quite sensitive to different chemical fumes. I don't know if this is the same, but I certainly would be very cautious if you have a sensitivity. Otherwise I don't know how you would react and there are different resins for different uses. Some people use full on chemical fume masks, I occassonaly get some on my hands and just wash it off.
That's what set me for FDM if I do get one in a couple years. Cleaning a bathroom with Scrubbing Bubbles gives me a headache for a half hour - so I can only imagine what resin stink would do.
https://www.3dprintingrealms.com/low-odor-resins/
Quote from: tenbones on September 17, 2021, 04:56:34 PM
I was just wondering if they were toxic-toxic - like carcinogenic or something. As I live in TX, being "too cold" won't be an issue for me unless it's the dead of winter, but even then I have a crafting room I'd likely put this machine in.
Hows the odor? Will it permanently stink up a room?
Or is this strictly a garage thing?
I ran my Sonic Mighty in my spare bedroom. I have two air purifiers that I run constantly when printing and it really cuts down on the fumes. There are also some really nice smaller filters you can put right in the printer.
The fumes aren't as bad as you might think, and different resins can be better than others. Elegoo Standard Grey has a really faint smell.
The IPA can get a bit strong for me sometimes, but I just wear a mask that filters it down some.
The important part is to have a good place to work with the model once it comes off the printer. Removing supports, cleaning in IPA and then curing.