Based off of an offhand remark I saw in another thread, what do you think of Bards in D&D?
In my own games I'd love to see someone play a Bard, but so far no one except me has expressed an interest in it. (IN our Earthdawn game I played a Troubadour.) What about all of you? Do you have Bards in your game? Do you use them as NPC's? Do you like them?
Just curious.
I'm a bit mixed about them. I like what most players do with them, but it's not really a "bard" to me. I haven't actually seen a good "troubadour" character. He just wouldn't shine in most games and you'd need some kind of poetic base level for the player (and the willingness to show this in public).
But the fighter-caster-rogue Joat is fun enough.
In the various versions I've seen of the bard class, they always either:
a) Trespass on a bunch of other classes' niches, which pisses people off and undermines the essentially archetypal nature of the class system.
b) Trespass on a bunch of other classes' niches, but are so hilariously inept at all of them that they're constantly outshined by the characters who actually decided to concentrate on filling one or two niches as opposed to three.
with a tendency towards b). I'm hoping 4E will fix that.
I like Jack-of-all-Trade's types who can cast a spell or two, swing a sword, and do swashbuckly or theify type maneuvers. Especially if they are comedically bad at one or more of those skills.
Renfaire rockstars don't do much for me, though.
Quote from: jrientsRenfaire rockstars don't do much for me, though.
Dang, now I really want to do a campaign based on the Almost Famous movie.
In 3.5 at least, other classes have started doing Bard stuff better than the bard. If you're looking for a party-buffer, look at the Dragon Shaman or Knight. If you want a 'face,' a Charisma-based Rogue is always a good choice.
They're neat, but I think they've progressively lost their niche to other classes. I'd much prefer them to go back to being a prestige class, like they were in 1e.
-O
In a Ptolus game I'm in, our bard is affectionately referred to as "Leech" or "+1 Bot". That pretty much says it all.
Somewhat of a tangent: I tried to convince our DM to run a game entitled Ptolus Rock City. In this game, all the players would be bards in the world's first rock n' roll band, and we'd conquer the city with a combination of epic Diplomacy rolls, dazzling displays of swordplay, and unstoppable power chords. We would usher the city into an era of peace, with more excellent waterslides than any other city-state we communicate with.
If looks could kill, I'd be little more than a shadow on the wall.
In my D&D game (which I am about to drop), I'm one of those variant bards that trades out the inspirational stuff and lore for an animal companion.
My character is still basically a joke, but at least the constrictor snake is useful in a fight. Plus we get to make comments about "my snake."
Quote from: obrynIn 3.5 at least, other classes have started doing Bard stuff better than the bard. If you're looking for a party-buffer, look at the Dragon Shaman or Knight. If you want a 'face,' a Charisma-based Rogue is always a good choice.
The bard never had a particular niche. It's able to fill out some of them and support in others. And if you want to talk about other classes, the Beguiler is teh big competition right now. Even for PrC-optimized caster bards...
Every bard I made was an orator. "Perform (Oratory)" works just fine and needs no instrument.
Quote from: Serious PaulBased off of an offhand remark I saw in another thread, what do you think of Bards in D&D?
In 3.5, they made for great villains since they had abilities and spells that made it possible for them to hide their alignment, lie, and con people.
Quote from: Serious PaulIn my own games I'd love to see someone play a Bard, but so far no one except me has expressed an interest in it. (IN our Earthdawn game I played a Troubadour.) What about all of you? Do you have Bards in your game? Do you use them as NPC's? Do you like them?
I had two significant villain Bards in my game, both of which were twisted and Evil individuals that everyone thought were great guys because they hid it well. In fact, I hadn't realized that I hadn't had any good guy bards until my players commented about the negative stereotype I had wound up creating for the class.
I also played a short-lived character who was a Dwarven Fighter-Bard. They should probably be a Sorcerer variant (that, for example, gets some additional power at the expense of always needing a musical instrument and a vocal component) or a Prestige class.
Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerEvery bard I made was an orator. "Perform (Oratory)" works just fine and needs no instrument.
Could be cool with a William Shatner delivery. :)
Bards are an excellent basis for many builds, but tend to go to the extremes - a well built Bard can dominate, but a badly built Bard will suck even more than other badly built characters. Bards have some of the best prestige classes in the game, and can become really fearsome spellcasters. The main thing is to leverage the spellcasting and buffing properly.
Arsenic Canary -
You know about Metal Opera, right?
http://www.harlekin-maus.com/games/metalopera/metalopera.html
My experience with them is with a badly built one played by half ass, player. He could do a little bit of everything. But was horrible at it all. Thank god he didnt get invited back to the group when it reformed.