Yes there are lots of RPG's that are obviously influenced by Dune in varous amounts, but Dune itself has always been a clusterfuck of a license. It might be one of my favorite fictional series of all time, but I'm wondering if it would actually work with broad appeal as an RPG?

With Star Wars it's a no-brainer. But Dune, even with its fantastic elements (Mentats, Fish-Speakers, Fremen, Sardaukar, Bene Gesserit, Gholas etc.) has an entirely different set of conceits that outside of the fictional main storyline would require a lot of infrastructure (that does exist via the Encyclopedia) to be introduced as playable.

So without introducing other elements (as many of the RPG's Dune has influenced have done) how would you handle it? Is it even viable within its own context? Or is it a heartbreaker RPG concept that needs "other stuff" to make it more accessible for the average player?

And if it matters - what system would you use?

Given the source material, I would focus on presenting Arrakis as place to adventure in and only give brief mention of the wider galaxy. If that well received then I would focus on similar sourcebooks for other aspect of the Dune setting. The last Dune RPG I had focused a lot on the noble houses and their intrigues.

Come to think of it, I wonder where I put that Dune RPG? I don't recall selling it or giving it away. I tried too at Origins one year but didn't get the price I was looking for. I will have to look around at home tonight.

I would start with classic traveller (i.e., pre-3rd imperium as a default setting, perhaps folding in a few technical details from later books) and work from there. The system itself is well engineered and doesn't really need to be fixed or expanded to deal with basic game play issues, and the central conceits of the game system - the existence of noble houses, military types, key importance of merchants and trade, mix of swords and laser guns, existence of psi powers, etc. - are in keeping with the setting. Really, you could reduce your pre-play work to the meat of the setting - npc's, planets, etc. - plus a couple of house rules to deal with shield technologies and the specific psi powers of navigators and spice users. I'd much rather do this than spend a year writing yet another fucking novel game system that no one will really play.

I love (most of) Dune*, so I have some things to say about this but I need time to get it all together in my head. First blush, I think you could pull it off well. It would need some big changes on the formula (though nothing that hasn't been done before I don't think). Maybe something more Pendragon or Ars Magica-ish? That's a tough one. Maybe I just want the answer to be yes. I'll think on it.

*Brian Herbert and Keven J. Anderson can go to hell. They can go to hell and they can die.

Quote from: Michael Gray;943772*Brian Herbert and Keven J. Anderson can go to hell. They can go to hell and they can die.

I'm with you on that. So for sake of discussion - let's keep it only with Frank's work. heh.

Quote from: LarsdanglyI would start with classic traveller (i.e., pre-3rd imperium as a default setting, perhaps folding in a few technical details from later books) and work from there. The system itself is well engineered and doesn't really need to be fixed or expanded to deal with basic game play issues, and the central conceits of the game system - the existence of noble houses, military types, key importance of merchants and trade, mix of swords and laser guns, existence of psi powers, etc. - are in keeping with the setting. Really, you could reduce your pre-play work to the meat of the setting - npc's, planets, etc. - plus a couple of house rules to deal with shield technologies and the specific psi powers of navigators and spice users. I'd much rather do this than spend a year writing yet another fucking novel game system that no one will really play.

This is really where the rubber hits the road, isn't it? The conflicts of the setting pre-Paul are essentially just intra-house intrigue and rarely naked warfare. By design - the conceits of the books are tightly controlled for narrative purposes with the Landsraad and the Spacing Guild being these background justifications that prevent wholesale intergalactic war. It's beautifully setup for the purposes of writing fiction - but in terms of doing an RPG... they're straightjackets for some campaign concepts.

The other obvious question is - the Primary Storyline. Are the PC's in it, can they change it? Do they replace it? All of which is on the table. A *lot* of the special stuff about Dune are occluded away on purpose - Mentats, Bene Gesserit for instance serve nobles, but they're not necessarily allies (of course this is hand-waved as necessary) - but when push comes to shove - these individuals serve extremely tight-knit organizations. Hell having a Bene Gesseritt go rogue is one of the great issues with Lady Jessica. Had she not spawned the Kwisatz Haderach (spoiler-alert for those that have been under a rock for the last 40+ years), she might have gotten whacked.

One of the concerns is bringing the PC's together without sacrificing the "cool shit" and not making everyone too snowflakey. I dunno if that makes sense?

Dune as a setting is pretty difficult because it's hard to imagine the Firefly Crew doing much there.  Basically look at 40k, the same problem.  Unless you go micro-scale and stick to a single planet, or single system then you're getting involved with The Powers That Be.  At that point, once you go large, you have to do Epic Zen Handwaving, Extreme Narrative Minigames, or 4th-dimensional Harnmanor to make sense of it.

Once you get a Patron of some sort, or assume a setup as independent Freelancers/Troubleshooters/Mercs/Shadowrunners, then things could get easier as you shift to a more episodic, mission-based campaign.  But the small scale Free Trader role is harder to place in the setting, which is kind of player's go-to mindset for Sci-Fi.

Yeah I looked around to see if anyone had come up with a hack for the setting. I've heard Fading Suns is basically Dune with the serial numbers filed off and is on sale on Bundle of Holding right now. I picked it up.  

Could be tricky as the part I love the most about Dune is all the strange stuff with the Mentats, Bene Gesseritt, Spacing Guild, etc. But that is more about intrigue as opposed to adventure and RPGs have issues pulling off intrigue in my experience. One could just make it all about being part of the resistance on Dune against the Harkonnens but that feels like it would be losing most of what makes the setting so interesting and odd.

I know Amber is pretty intrigue heavy so perhaps that could be hacked for the setting?

How was the one official release for Dune? Any good?

I think that the themes and setting of the first four Dune novels are actually kind of bad for roleplaying games.

The super rigid “faufreluches” class system precludes the kind of mobility (not even upward mobility, just being able to fuck off to adventure) you get in a lot of roleplaying games. Not to mention the Landsraad and The Spacing Guild locking it all the fuck down. The theme of heroes being, generally, destructive to the cultures that venerate them goes against modern roleplaying sensibilities; though a more old school "Just guys doing stupid shit for money" kind of thing (tell me going into a dank dungeon isn't stupid) would work better. All of the focus is on this one desert planet that is the center of the universe. You could go with noble intrigues, but what’s more important than the one rock where Spice is mined? Not much.

Depending on when the game is set, the Noble ruling said planet is either a roid rage, muscleheaded idiot; or a guy who’s going to get assassinated in a ritualized vendetta. The only free-ish folk also have a highly communitarian structure where nails that stick up are hammered down (understandable given the knife’s edge they live on).

There’s…very little room for traditional adventurers.

What you CAN do. Maybe. Is set the game during The Scattering. The Guild has lost its monopoly on space travel with Ixian mechanical navigators, Arrakis is no longer the center of everything because of Tleilaxian ‘artificial’ spice production, and everyone is getting the fuck out of the Old Empire so no one can control them like Leto II did ever again. It’s also blank space. It’s like The Star Wars: The Old Republic era of Dune. Even if you stick to the boundaries of the Old Empire during The Scattering…everything is falling apart as the old guard try and scramble to keep their power. That opens up way more opportunity for roleplay than having it set during the first four novels.

Dune as an RPG setting? I don't see it. Some things need to be left alone. Because they are not condusive to creating a good entertaining product for our hobby.

But bear with me in this. Not every property that comes out has to have an RPG based on it. There are certainly some things that are straight up incompatible with the hobby. And that's perfectly okay.

Quote from: Voros;943777I've heard Fading Suns is basically Dune with the serial numbers filed off and is on sale on Bundle of Holding right now.

Nice, thanks.  You've justified your existence for today.

Quote from: tenbones;943766Yes there are lots of RPG's that are obviously influenced by Dune in varous amounts, but Dune itself has always been a clusterfuck of a license. It might be one of my favorite fictional series of all time, but I'm wondering if it would actually work with broad appeal as an RPG?

With Star Wars it's a no-brainer. But Dune, even with its fantastic elements (Mentats, Fish-Speakers, Fremen, Sardaukar, Bene Gesserit, Gholas etc.) has an entirely different set of conceits that outside of the fictional main storyline would require a lot of infrastructure (that does exist via the Encyclopedia) to be introduced as playable.

So without introducing other elements (as many of the RPG's Dune has influenced have done) how would you handle it? Is it even viable within its own context? Or is it a heartbreaker RPG concept that needs "other stuff" to make it more accessible for the average player?

And if it matters - what system would you use?

Dune is such a straightforward plot that I'm not certain what the benefit of a Dune RPG would be, honestly. I like games that have been highly influenced by Dune (Fading Suns, the original WH40K setting), but while I'm a huge fan of the original books, I can't really wrap my head around what I would actually do in the setting.


But say I were for some reason tasked to run a Dune RPG; I'd probably use Unknown Armies as the system, to be honest (stripped of all the magic, and heavily adapted mind). The mix of grittiness combined with the psychology system hits the right tone forme.

Quote from: Voros;943777I've heard Fading Suns is basically Dune with the serial numbers filed off and is on sale on Bundle of Holding right now. I picked it up.  

Eh, its not that close that I'd use that description, it just wears the influence on its sleeve.

It sounds like you are struggling with the classic dilemma many perceive in trying to create a roleplaying game for a beloved fictional setting: Are you trying to mimic the experience of re-living the specific story of the book (or some side-story you imagine is tucked into the shadowy corners of that story), or are you playing a game in something inspired by the setting of the book, but you are free to do whatever the hell you want with it. I feel like if you are trying to do the former you will never be satisfied with the result. Stories have narrative arcs that are totally antithetical to player freedom of action and fate. People try to spin this by molding systems that will funnel players into acting certain ways and doing certain things, but I don't think I've ever seen a case where it works. I would say you are either playing a game or performing an act of homage to a book, but you can't to both.

Two exceptions here are Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu, which are both directly crafted to reproduce the setting of a set of stories, and succeed on their own terms as games. What is special about them? Most of the focus in the books is on small, self-contained short-stories about the lives of a vast number of characters, whose story arcs have all sorts of good and bad outcomes. They depict a world in which its easy to insert more characters of broadly similar types who are free to act - and live or die - without mutating your sense of how that world works and what's in it.

Another good insight: The City State and Wilderlands campaign was originally designed as a place you can reach from magical portals that are distributed about middle earth (!). The message here is, lighten up - no one really gives a shit about how faithfully your game mind-melds with the book's author.

For those who read french there's an excellent (and free) Dune rpg called Imperium.

I would base it off StarCluster 4, and have the players create their own Noble House, with characters at two or three levels of interest - a major figure: head of house, spouse, mentat: a mover and shaker who deals with the game of Houses; A lower level operative who is more hands on, and possibly a mid-level character like Gurney Halleck or Duncan Idaho pre-ghola-mentat. This way they get their orders from themselves, and don't go all postal against the GM - something I have never seen, but hey, other people are afraid of it! The House planet should be procedurally generated. I'd have to create shields, no big whup.