So, I stopped getting my monthly dose of Dragon magazine sometime back. I just didn't have much use for it anymore. Now I had stopped playing D&D for a long time, but I still found some use for Dragon magazine. The articles, the monsters, the character classes etc inspired me in my other games. This was during the 90's.
Now I'm vaguely aware that this was a time of great unrest at TSR. The shit was about to hit the fan, and the folks there mistook the stench for really bad takeout.
IMO though, it was a great time for Dragon magazine. The art was great - someone on another board said that the difference between the art these days and that of those of back in the day, was that the latter told a "story" and the former just kind of stared blankly at you. I can relate to this.
Like I said, even though I did not play D&D anymore, the stuff was useful to me. Maybe that was the problem. A lot of folks I knew, found the mag useful and they weren't really into D&D. So maybe the new mag - the one that came into being a couple of years before 3e suited the core D&D fans better.
So with the arrival of 4e, whenever that may be, I'm sure Dragon mag will reinvent itself again. What do you folks think of Dragon? Do you like where it has gone or do you prefer where it was from? Is the mag of any use to you?
In other words, Dragon mag -"What's it all about?"
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RSo, I stopped getting my monthly dose of Dragon magazine sometime back. I just didn't have much use for it anymore. Now I had stopped playing D&D for a long time, but I still found some use for Dragon magazine. The articles, the monsters, the character classes etc inspired me in my other games. This was during the 90's.
Now I'm vaguely aware that this was a time of great unrest at TSR. The shit was about to hit the fan, and the folks there mistook the stench for really bad takeout.
IMO though, it was a great time for Dragon magazine. The art was great - someone on another board said that the difference between the art these days and that of those of back in the day, was that the latter told a "story" and the former just kind of stared blankly at you. I can relate to this.
Like I said, even though I did not play D&D anymore, the stuff was useful to me. Maybe that was the problem. A lot of folks I knew, found the mag useful and they weren't really into D&D. So maybe the new mag - the one that came into being a couple of years before 3e suited the core D&D fans better.
So with the arrival of 4e, whenever that may be, I'm sure Dragon mag will reinvent itself again. What do you folks think of Dragon? Do you like where it has gone or do you prefer where it was from? Is the mag of any use to you?
In other words, Dragon mag -"What's it all about?"
Regards,
David R
I dig Dragon.
I mean, I play a very narrow band of characters (smart ass spellcasters) so it's rare that I find an entire issue that I love. As a DM though, I find that themed issues recently, while not immediately usable, will be saved on the chance that my players decide to become pirates, or some other type of theme.
The line of diety articles are great, because they give my a perfect form to follow when I work on my homebrew game and even if I can't use it all verbatim, there are great huge chunks I can steal and contort into material I want to use.
Class Acts are useful, no so much for me, but for helping my n00bie players (who have never played Pen and Paper games) achieve the overall goal they have in mind for what they want to play.
I really don't have much use for the ecology articles, but they can be inspiring every once and a great while.
Quote from: David RLike I said, even though I did not play D&D anymore, the stuff was useful to me. Maybe that was the problem. A lot of folks I knew, found the mag useful and they weren't really into D&D. So maybe the new mag - the one that came into being a couple of years before 3e suited the core D&D fans better.
Pretty much. I find my dragon archive immensely useful despite the fact I am not using the systems to which those were written... in addition to netting other games, there were articles that were very rules independant. Those are harder to find these days.
While I was heavy into D&D 3e, Dragon was pretty useful, though I still found my tastes better catered to by third party d20 products. Now I am drifting off a bit more into Spycraft and D20 Modern, it's use for me is fading a bit... but there are still articles that are worth my subscription for me, like the demonomicon. And of course, when I get back to 3e again, those issues will be of more use to me.
QuoteSo with the arrival of 4e, whenever that may be, I'm sure Dragon mag will reinvent itself again. What do you folks think of Dragon? Do you like where it has gone or do you prefer where it was from? Is the mag of any use to you?
As a player who wanders both sides of the D&D/non-D&D fence, I'll say both have their virtues.
Dragon and Dungeon both entered another golden age for themselves with the taking of the helm by Erik Mona. I've bought Dragon since issue 45, and have had the CD-ROM archive since it was released, so I know what the mag was like way back when. Right now, it's about as good as it's ever been, better in some instances. The Demonomicon articles, for example, are fantastic, even to someone like me who's never been a big fan of demons. The recent one about Kostchchie was one of my favorite articles in years. Plus, Dragon has had a lot of generally interesting articles of late. I especially like the "Worm Food" articles that supplement the "Age of Worms" campaign in Dungeon. These articles are for that campaign, but can be used for other purposes.
The only thing I miss from the days of old are articles about games other than D&D. I recall loving when the old Dragon had articles about Traveller, for example. Even if they don't want to do non-WotC games articles, it'd be nice to see d20 Modern/Past/Future articles occasionally.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonDragon and Dungeon both entered another golden age for themselves with the taking of the helm by Erik Mona.
Erik Mona's stewardship of the magazine was a good one. I think I stopped subscribing as opposed to buying of the rack when he left.
QuoteThe only thing I miss from the days of old are articles about games other than D&D. I recall loving when the old Dragon had articles about Traveller, for example. Even if they don't want to do non-WotC games articles, it'd be nice to see d20 Modern/Past/Future articles occasionally.
I fondly recall writers such as Arthur Collins and Thomas Kane,to name a few. Dragon (
despite what some may say) has IMO always featured some interesting writers. Also Ray Winnigers Dungeoncraft column was pretty good. Robin Law always writes some fine stuff.
But like I said in my original post, I can't find much useful for my games in it's current state. I think though a lot of folks who play D&D do. I still occasionaly read the mag, but I do miss the old days.
I would definately start buying it again if d20 games (WotC or otherwise) were to become a regular feature.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Harry JoyUrhh, Erik Mona is the current Editor-in-Chief.
And I like what he's done. But the magazine really started improving around about the reboot late in 2004, with Matthew Sernett.
Interesting. I remember reading some of his editorials, and then I assumed he left. Don't really dig what Matt has done. But this is just my opinion, a lot of folks dig his work.
QuoteGotta say, I really don't get these threads where folks say they haven't touched Dragon mag since *whenever* for *whatever* reasons, "...tell me I'm wrong or if the magazine ever got better." Which is usually followed by page after page of Dragon still sucks but I love Erik Mona but I will never subscribe again Dungeon Rulez!
Not my intention :) I was just going through my Dragon stuff and wanted to hear what folks think of the mag. I don't think Dragon mag ever sucked, not even when it become apparent to me, that I was finding it less useful.
But I have been hearing a lot of good things about Dungeon though.....
Regards,
David R
I got my editors mixed up. I was thinking about Jesse Decker (sp) and Chris Thomasson (sp). So, I stopped collecting after they left or thereabouts - if they left at all. I think when the new format was introduced, I kind of lost interest.
But if I'm not mistaken, Erik and Matt really gave D&D fans what they wanted. Which is a good thing.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Harry JoyUrhh, Erik Mona is the current Editor-in-Chief.
Actually, he's not. He's now publisher for both Dragon and Dungeon. This bodes well for both mags.
Quote from: David RBut if I'm not mistaken, Erik and Matt really gave D&D fans what they wanted. Which is a good thing.
Actually, that should be present-tense. Dragon and Dungeon are currently as popular as they've ever been, and are getting rave reviews. Dungeon is generally getting the most love - and it should, as the adventures (the adventure paths like Shackled City and Age of Worms especially) are as good as they've ever been, and some of the stuff in the back of the magazine is cool also. However, Dragon is generally winning people over, and I'm seeing less and less of the "Dragon sucks" kind of posts and threads that ran rampant some years back. Erik and crew seem to really be in tune with what readers want.
I get both magazines, and even while I was not playing for many years while in the military, I still picked up Dragon. I missed articles when they were phased out, or the layout changed of the magazine, some things improved at times, others did not. I've always been able to find something in the magazine, that I felt kept me in touch with D&D. Something, a story, article, whatever that kept D&D alive for me, when I wasn't playing. I may be a bit late getting my subscription paid sometimes. But I plan on buying both magazines whether I play or not, for some time to come. The last magazine, inspired an encounter in my current game, and some feats to suggest to one of the players. How can that not be worth a couple dollars?
GW
Quote from: GraywolfI've always been able to find something in the magazine, that I felt kept me in touch with D&D. Something, a story, article, whatever that kept D&D alive for me, when I wasn't playing. I may be a bit late getting my subscription paid sometimes. How can that not be worth a couple dollars?
GW
Emphasis mine.This is what's it's all about. I know many folks who feel the same way. Even though I was not playing D&D, Dragon was a way to keep in touch with the whole D&D scene. Not to mention, the older stuff was more useful to me.
As the Colonel mentioned, both mags seem to be in tune with what players want from it, and this is cool. What I had hoped this thread could be about was what folks liked about the old or
current mag.
One of the aspects that I liked about Dragon when I was reading it, was what Erik Mona did with the Living Greyhawk section. (
I don't know if it is still a feature in the mag). Building on the foundation(
I assume) Carl Sargent layed down with his reimagining of Greyhawk, Mona managed to get someone like me who was pretty ambivalent about the whole setting to pay more attention to it.
Now although, I would like Dragon to have more coverage of other D20 games - it would be cool if they had articles on Conan (Slaine), Starship Troopers, D20 Modern, M&M, etc - I realize that this would be a big mistake.
Why ruin a good thing? But yet, I still can't help thinking, that they would do a great job with content like this. But it would not cater to D&D, which is what the mag is there for.
Regards,
David R
Dragon seems to thrive or appeal to me the most during major changes. Dragon just before 3e came out and shortly afterward, and just before and during 3.5, were the highlights for me. Right now it's vaguely good, but not on par with some of my favorite issues.
I love the subscription and there are a few keeper issues that really enhance my gaming experience. Dragons 310-312 and 325 spring to mind, because they covered topics and issues well outside of most supplements in a way that still hasn't been handled as well by multiple supplements afterward.
I also like that they give little themes instead of always having an entire book dedicated to them.
I do wish the themes were a bit more relevant at times though, they seem to go back to Dragons as a theme every 15 issues or so, but only do one or maybe two magic issues or fighting issues per 100.
I'd love to see more updates of older material too, handled ala the Dragon Compendium. I think that's a wealth of material they've only lightly touched on, but is very ready for conversion. Easy conversion of older mods would be great too.
I think my favorite part, since around issue 324 is Class Acts. Despite only being a few pages (and getting shorter), it's by far the most relevant and useful info I get out of every issue.
Dragon to me is like National Geographic. Often there is stuff I want to read, and there's stuff I don't want to read, but I know that every issue is going to have boobies.
I have an entire bookshelf full of issues at home, ranging from the early 80s through the latter days of TSR (mostly in the 50-200 range).
Dragon is pure gamer comfort food. Especially back during the TSR years when it had clean layout (no paintings behind the text!), dense text, and fresh ideas (instead of just old stuff revisited, reiterated or restatted under current rules). There's nothing quite like flipping through an old issue on a rainy day and just being inspired all over again in a dozen different ways.
I miss it. The mag out there today has dreadful, gaudy layout, much shorter articles, insultingly simplistic language geared at an overall lower literacy level and fewer new ideas. Not to mention that it doesn't have non-D&D features anymore (I like D&D, but the old Dragon turned me on to so many other new games with its industry-spanning monthly review column and occasional non-D&D feature article).
I don't even like to call this current magazine "Dragon."
EDIT: ColonelHardisson is right, though. Dragon is getting better, as opposed to the last few years when it has positively wallowed in the above-mentioned mediocrity. It just has a lot of ground yet to regain.
QuoteThe art was great - someone on another board said that the difference between the art these days and that of those of back in the day, was that the latter told a "story" and the former just kind of stared blankly at you
This really resounds with me, too. I can spend all day looking at an old Dragon, even if it's one I've just added to my collection and never read back in the day.
Quote from: YamoThis really resounds with me, too.
Is
resonates the word you are looking for here?
Quote from: Caesar SlaadIs resonates the word you are looking for here?
Either works, I think. It resounds, in that I am happy to echo the sentiment. :)
the end of the publication of DRAGON was pretty much the end of me spending money on the hobby. I still play, but that was their last chance to get my money.