make me a fart sniffing elitist douchebag or is there some wiggle room? Full disclosure... I have dealt some real stinkers and have revelled in their jaw dropping potency but I've never been deluded in that they were anything but that. Similarly, I'm considering using a non-"gamemaster" term that better fits the genre but everytime I hear something else used myself I instantly assume the worst (usually spot on) of the game designer. Even in the last MCDM video I watched, Matt Colville struggled to correct himself repeatedly when using the traditional gamemaster term... and I don't want to be like Matt (except for the money of course). I have no hangups regarding the use of the term "master" in connection with slavery as that has nothing to do with the role in playing ttrgps. In fact, my default setting will have slavery as an evil element of the fantasy world I plan to have as well as other things that may trigger those with unnatural neon hair colors and worldviews. If I use a variant term but don't espouse the other features of the mental illness that is leftist ttrpg theory, am I still the baddie?
I'd suggest you use the term "slave master", that should be entertaining at the table.
If you want something different there are all sorts of terms:
Arbiter (my favorite)
or
Referee
or
Judge
or
Arbiter of Truth (the AT)
Have some fun with it and go back to the wargaming roots of RPG's.
I own a few non fart-smelling non-woke games that don't use it, at the table we always revert to the familiar term, the only term with more familiarity is Dungeon Master but somehow people never use it when not playing D&D, even if we're playing a retroclone.
Colville was having trouble sticking to his own term due to this familiarity.
Game Master is probably the most generic and ubiquitous term available. it's been around a long time so just use it and move on.
No, but if you're gonna go for the brass ring here, go completely overboard with it. Once. Something akin to "Taylspynner" and then dispense with that bullshit and go back to GM.
Quote from: RNGm on March 17, 2024, 12:00:17 PM
make me a fart sniffing elitist douchebag or is there some wiggle room? ...If I use a variant term but don't espouse the other features of the mental illness that is leftist ttrpg theory, am I still the baddie?
Yes.
No there isn't. Not even a little bit.
Also Yes.
I've deteriorated to the point I mostly just call it "the master."
Quote from: Jaeger on March 17, 2024, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: RNGm on March 17, 2024, 12:00:17 PM
make me a fart sniffing elitist douchebag or is there some wiggle room? ...If I use a variant term but don't espouse the other features of the mental illness that is leftist ttrpg theory, am I still the baddie?
Yes.
No there isn't. Not even a little bit.
Also Yes.
Dammit. That means I have to keep holding it in then; I'm practically ready to explode by this point!
Quote from: Thornhammer on March 17, 2024, 07:37:01 PM
No, but if you're gonna go for the brass ring here, go completely overboard with it. Once. Something akin to "Taylspynner" and then dispense with that bullshit and go back to GM.
Legally, I think you have to work for Games Workshop to do that but I could be mistaken in my interpretation of UK law.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 17, 2024, 12:25:14 PM
I own a few non fart-smelling non-woke games that don't use it, at the table we always revert to the familiar term, the only term with more familiarity is Dungeon Master but somehow people never use it when not playing D&D, even if we're playing a retroclone.
Colville was having trouble sticking to his own term due to this familiarity.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 17, 2024, 12:20:53 PM
I'd suggest you use the term "slave master", that should be entertaining at the table.
If you want something different there are all sorts of terms:
Arbiter (my favorite)
or
Referee
or
Judge
or
Arbiter of Truth (the AT)
Have some fun with it and go back to the wargaming roots of RPG's.
Very true but they're admittedly grandfathered in before the industry wide Awokening and therefore avoid the taint.
Quote from: David Johansen on March 17, 2024, 07:47:11 PM
I've deteriorated to the point I mostly just call it "the master."
The defacement of Dr. Who makes me sad to use that villain's name now even in that stick in the eye way designed to annoy the same people.
Quote from: BadApple on March 17, 2024, 07:08:32 PM
Game Master is probably the most generic and ubiquitous term available. it's been around a long time so just use it and move on.
Definitely both the most generic (in a non-derogatory use of the term) and ubiquitous... but I'm admittedly looking for it to be a bit more specific/thematic. I don't ever play "narrative" type story games but I can see why the GM there could/would be called a "director" for example. Yeah, it's a bit snowflakey in retrospect.
Quote from: RNGm on March 17, 2024, 08:36:22 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 17, 2024, 12:25:14 PM
I own a few non fart-smelling non-woke games that don't use it, at the table we always revert to the familiar term, the only term with more familiarity is Dungeon Master but somehow people never use it when not playing D&D, even if we're playing a retroclone.
Colville was having trouble sticking to his own term due to this familiarity.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 17, 2024, 12:20:53 PM
I'd suggest you use the term "slave master", that should be entertaining at the table.
If you want something different there are all sorts of terms:
Arbiter (my favorite)
or
Referee
or
Judge
or
Arbiter of Truth (the AT)
Have some fun with it and go back to the wargaming roots of RPG's.
Very true but they're admittedly grandfathered in before the industry wide Awokening and therefore avoid the taint.
I can't remember specific games off the top of my head, but I seem to remember "cutsey" terms for Game Master in RPGs at the time of AD&D/2nd edition.
*google* For instance, the Ghostmaster. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters_(role-playing_game))
I prefer that a game just use the standard terminology for things. To me, using odd terms for standard concept like gamemaster, player character or encounter just comes across as twee, gimmicky, pompous or some combination of all three. It just makes me roll my eyes. If you call the GM in your gritty movie Western rpg, the Hangin' Judge, I am just going to shrug, say, "Whatever" and never use that term at all. I have been not using these terms since White Wolf decided to call the GM the storyteller in the early 90s. Too much of this can hurt readability and gets obnoxious. If you want to see this sort of thing taken to its obnoxious extreme, read Immortal: The Invisible War. They refused to use the standard terms for anything and the result is a practically unreadable mess.
My official title might be GM, but I call my position "Herder of Cats" as I feel this most accurately conveys what the task of running a game actually involves. ;D
Quote from: yosemitemike on March 18, 2024, 03:04:15 AM
I prefer that a game just use the standard terminology for things. To me, using odd terms for standard concept like gamemaster, player character or encounter just comes across as twee, gimmicky, pompous or some combination of all three. It just makes me roll my eyes. If you call the GM in your gritty movie Western rpg, the Hangin' Judge, I am just going to shrug, say, "Whatever" and never use that term at all. I have been not using these terms since White Wolf decided to call the GM the storyteller in the early 90s. Too much of this can hurt readability and gets obnoxious. If you want to see this sort of thing taken to its obnoxious extreme, read Immortal: The Invisible War. They refused to use the standard terms for anything and the result is a practically unreadable mess.
It's definitely gimmicky but that's the intent I suppose. I definitely wouldn't change the standard terms for everything I reserve the right to repace the term "adventures" with "sagas" instead for thematic reasons. :)
Just this weekend, I read "A quick primer for OSR gaming" by Matt Finch from 2008 to get a feel for the scene and it suprisingly used the term "referee" instead; I definitely wasn't expecting that from an OSR product. Is that just a rare one-off instance from a single company or is it also common/uncommon in the OSR scene?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 17, 2024, 12:20:53 PM
Arbiter (my favorite)
Yeah, me too, way underused!
"Gamemaster" may be the "generic" term this decade, but I still recall with disgust its inception.
Frankly, everyone is a douche that doesn't use "Dungeon Master". Alas, we're all douches at legal gunpoint.
Quote from: RNGm on March 18, 2024, 09:05:20 AM
Just this weekend, I read "A quick primer for OSR gaming" by Matt Finch from 2008 to get a feel for the scene and it suprisingly used the term "referee" instead; I definitely wasn't expecting that from an OSR product. Is that just a rare one-off instance from a single company or is it also common/uncommon in the OSR scene?
"Referee" gets used from time to time as a casual replacement for GM/DM. However, usually what it refers to is a subset of what the GM is doing. As in, "The GM should be an impartial referee when running the game," or something like that.
Referee is the original term. D&D was created out of tabletop wargaming as a way of explaining where fantasy army generals get their gear for the next battle.
Those wargaming battles used an arbitrary neutral 3rd person to referee the edge cases of how and when rules applied, and to provide a double-blind option for hidden units.
Dungeon Master came from that, but that is a copy-write protected term. So Game Master replaced it for non-D&D games.
But, the OG term is Referee. Use that.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 18, 2024, 10:16:45 AM
"Referee" gets used from time to time as a casual replacement for GM/DM. However, usually what it refers to is a subset of what the GM is doing. As in, "The GM should be an impartial referee when running the game," or something like that.
In this particular case, the document seems to alternate between exclusively Gamemaster/GM or "the referee" when describing the role/duties/advice from section to section of the guide. I don't know if it was actually written by committee despite only having one credited writer but that might explain the inconsistent use of both depending on the section. Below is an example of its use...
QuoteYou have to tell the referee where you're looking for
traps and what buttons you're pushing. You have to tell the referee whatever tall tale
you're trying to get the city guardsman to believe. You have to decide for yourself if
someone's lying to your character or telling the truth. In a 0e game, you are always
asking questions, telling the referee exactly what your character is looking at, and
experimenting with things.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 18, 2024, 10:30:09 AM
Referee is the original term. D&D was created out of tabletop wargaming as a way of explaining where fantasy army generals get their gear for the next battle.
Those wargaming battles used an arbitrary neutral 3rd person to referee the edge cases of how and when rules applied, and to provide a double-blind option for hidden units.
Dungeon Master cams from that, but that is a copy-write protected term. So Game Master replaced it for non-D&D games.
But, the OG term is Referee. Use that.
I was definitely aware of the wargaming roots of D&D/Chainmail but not of the use of the term. When did it switch over from referee to DM?
How about "Overseer"? That should work right? One who oversee's the game...
Oh wait...
Quote from: RNGm on March 18, 2024, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 18, 2024, 10:30:09 AM
Referee is the original term. D&D was created out of tabletop wargaming as a way of explaining where fantasy army generals get their gear for the next battle.
Those wargaming battles used an arbitrary neutral 3rd person to referee the edge cases of how and when rules applied, and to provide a double-blind option for hidden units.
Dungeon Master cams from that, but that is a copy-write protected term. So Game Master replaced it for non-D&D games.
But, the OG term is Referee. Use that.
I was definitely aware of the wargaming roots of D&D/Chainmail but not of the use of the term. When did it switch over from referee to DM?
Not sure, but probably in original white box D&D is my guess.
Referee has been around for a LONG time when it comes to wargaming. Real militaries used war games to test tactics and strategies, as well as train officers.
The other term used a lot is Umpire.
How about Gamesmith?
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 18, 2024, 11:08:45 AM
How about "Overseer"? That should work right? One who oversee's the game...
Oh wait...
I'd say that one is slightly more likely one referencing the master of the environment whose job it is to bait the players into combat... a masterbaiter of sorts.
Overlord...and each session must begin with a three round chant of "all hail the overlord!" or rocks fall and everybody dies.
You aren't 100% instantly the bad guy for using a different term, as long as it's 1. relavent to the game and 2. not a dumb pretentios name.
Gamemaster is definetly the default, referee is a secondary default. Gillespie uses mazecontroller in dragonslayer since that game grew out of his barrowmaze campaign. but going of the rails and using something like stagedirector or other theater adjacent terms would give me at least the whiff of somebody that has their head up their rear.
Quote from: Zalman on March 18, 2024, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 17, 2024, 12:20:53 PM
Arbiter (my favorite)
Yeah, me too, way underused!
"Gamemaster" may be the "generic" term this decade, but I still recall with disgust its inception.
Frankly, everyone is a douche that doesn't use "Dungeon Master". Alas, we're all douches at legal gunpoint.
It was GM when I started playing nearly 35 years ago, and it's what I've always used.
I mean, Dungeon Master makes sense...when the game takes place in a dungeon. Why am I going to use that specific handle for the vast majority of games that don't take place in dungeons?
Greetings!
What's wrong with using the term GM?--(Gamemaster)?
What need is there for any other term?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
>:( My preferred term is "Grand High Overlord, who Oppresses You for Your Own Good!" GHOwOYfYOG!
But if you're well behaved I'll accept GameMaster. ;)
Quote from: SHARK on March 18, 2024, 11:41:34 PM
Greetings!
What's wrong with using the term GM?--(Gamemaster)?
What need is there for any other term?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Abolutely nothing is wrong with using the term GM no matter what any purple haired mentally unstable baristas tell you otherwise. Sometimes, though, it feels more thematic to use another term that fits the niche/genre of the game better.
I'm really not a fan of the term "dungeonmaster" and no one would every mistake me for a leftist wingnut. It's been around so long that it's vanilla ice cream in gaming circles, but it's still irredeemably nerdy to folks outside the hobby. I think such terms create a real barrier to trying RPGs in many cases. We're so used to our own lingo that we don't realize or care that it makes the hobby less accessible to newbies. There are a few good options. "Gamemaster" is almost as bad as "dungeonmaster," IMO, but I like "arbiter" which someone upthread suggested. For my current project I went with "narrator," because that's what a GM actually does. He narrates what happens, taking into consideration player choices, dice rolls, the rules, and the fictional environment. This time around I am making a conscious effort to use words that will be intuitive to nongamers in an effort to make the game accessible to folks who want to try an RPG for the first time.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 19, 2024, 02:00:53 AM
For my current project I went with "narrator," because that's what a GM actually does. He narrates what happens, taking into consideration player choices, dice rolls, the rules, and the fictional environment.
I don't think narrator is a terrible term, but I wouldn't use it. The only thing your description's missing is the decision making, which I think is more important than the narration itself. The narration could be done by a TTS program, you need the gamemaster or whatever else your calling it for everything else.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 19, 2024, 02:00:53 AM
This time around I am making a conscious effort to use words that will be intuitive to nongamers in an effort to make the game accessible to folks who want to try an RPG for the first time.
Gamemaster is plenty intuitive I think, master of the game. Part of getting into a hobby is learning its idiosyncrasies and lexicon, I don't wanna sand down all the rough edges too much.
GameMaster is fine.
I do prefer his holy royalness, lord of all lands and seas, first and last arbiter of thy rules, and consumer of pizza & soda.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 19, 2024, 02:00:53 AM
I'm really not a fan of the term "dungeonmaster" and no one would every mistake me for a leftist wingnut. It's been around so long that it's vanilla ice cream in gaming circles, but it's still irredeemably nerdy to folks outside the hobby. I think such terms create a real barrier to trying RPGs in many cases. We're so used to our own lingo that we don't realize or care that it makes the hobby less accessible to newbies. There are a few good options. "Gamemaster" is almost as bad as "dungeonmaster," IMO, but I like "arbiter" which someone upthread suggested. For my current project I went with "narrator," because that's what a GM actually does. He narrates what happens, taking into consideration player choices, dice rolls, the rules, and the fictional environment. This time around I am making a conscious effort to use words that will be intuitive to nongamers in an effort to make the game accessible to folks who want to try an RPG for the first time.
1.- I don't think that having more people in the hobby is a net good.
2.- Someone who is so easily discouraged as to GameMaster being enough for them not to try the hobby isn't a good fit anyway IMHO.
3.- You might have a case for the terms being "obscure" lingo if it wasn't for TV shows and movies helping popularize them.
In Portuguese, the term used more often is just "mestre" as in "mestre do jogo", a literal translation of game master. Purple-haired people won't be able to make associations to slavery in our case because "mestre" wasn't the word used for a slave owner, it was "senhor", which is translated to "mister, sir, lord". Other common terms in Brazil is "narrador" (narrator), because Vampire was big here, and dungeon master, no translation (actually, "dê-emê", DM, as we do love short terms and acronyms). What is used in Mexico, Geeky?
I find narrator borderline cringe, so things like stage director would make me leave the room in shame. My favorite game, unfortunately (?), uses narrator. It is the SAGA System for Dragonlance: Fifth Age. The whole game uses a lot of literary terms, like scene and act. Maybe that is why I flirt with pretentious terms like protagonist in my own game system.
Another kind of terms for game master that I never grew to like are the very specific to the product ones, like castle keeper. I think read too many indie games from the early 2000s with lots of 'tude and "proprietary" names for the GM.
Quote from: zer0th on March 25, 2024, 09:57:18 AM
In Portuguese, the term used more often is just "mestre" as in "mestre do jogo", a literal translation of game master. Purple-haired people won't be able to make associations to slavery in our case because "mestre" wasn't the word used for a slave owner, it was "senhor", which is translated to "mister, sir, lord". Other common terms in Brazil is "narrador" (narrator), because Vampire was big here, and dungeon master, no translation (actually, "dê-emê", DM, as we do love short terms and acronyms). What is used in Mexico, Geeky?
I find narrator borderline cringe, so things like stage director would make me leave the room in shame. My favorite game, unfortunately (?), uses narrator. It is the SAGA System for Dragonlance: Fifth Age. The whole game uses a lot of literary terms, like scene and act. Maybe that is why I flirt with pretentious terms like protagonist in my own game system.
Another kind of terms for game master that I never grew to like are the very specific to the product ones, like castle keeper. I think read too many indie games from the early 2000s with lots of 'tude and "proprietary" names for the GM.
IME and in order of popularity:
Dungeon Master (occasionaly translated to Amo del Calabozo like in the cartoon translation) DM
A very far second place goes to GM Game Master (Maestro del Juego)
Tied in second place DJ (Director del Juego) Game Director a loose translation from GM.
Narrator because Vampire.
Quote from: zer0th on March 25, 2024, 09:57:18 AMOther common terms in Brazil is "narrador" (narrator), because Vampire was big here, and dungeon master, no translation (actually, "dê-emê", DM, as we do love short terms and acronyms). What is used in Mexico, Geeky?
I find narrator borderline cringe, so things like stage director would make me leave the room in shame.
Interesting. The English version of Vampire and, I believe, the rest of the White Wolf games used "storyteller." So I find "storyteller" cringey due to the association despite it otherwise being an alright word, while "narrator" is free of negative associations.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2024, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: zer0th on March 25, 2024, 09:57:18 AMOther common terms in Brazil is "narrador" (narrator), because Vampire was big here, and dungeon master, no translation (actually, "dê-emê", DM, as we do love short terms and acronyms). What is used in Mexico, Geeky?
I find narrator borderline cringe, so things like stage director would make me leave the room in shame.
Interesting. The English version of Vampire and, I believe, the rest of the White Wolf games used "storyteller." So I find "storyteller" cringey due to the association despite it otherwise being an alright word, while "narrator" is free of negative associations.
storyteller translates to "narrador" which can also be translated to narrator in English, bet the same is true in Portuguese.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2024, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: zer0th on March 25, 2024, 09:57:18 AMOther common terms in Brazil is "narrador" (narrator), because Vampire was big here, and dungeon master, no translation (actually, "dê-emê", DM, as we do love short terms and acronyms). What is used in Mexico, Geeky?
I find narrator borderline cringe, so things like stage director would make me leave the room in shame.
Interesting. The English version of Vampire and, I believe, the rest of the White Wolf games used "storyteller." So I find "storyteller" cringey due to the association despite it otherwise being an alright word, while "narrator" is free of negative associations.
The direct translation of storyteller would be "contador de estórias", but that would sound too folksy to Brazilians. So, as Geeky assumed correctly, narrador is an acceptable translation of storyteller.
(double post, sorry)
Quote from: zer0th on March 26, 2024, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2024, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: zer0th on March 25, 2024, 09:57:18 AMOther common terms in Brazil is "narrador" (narrator), because Vampire was big here, and dungeon master, no translation (actually, "dê-emê", DM, as we do love short terms and acronyms). What is used in Mexico, Geeky?
I find narrator borderline cringe, so things like stage director would make me leave the room in shame.
Interesting. The English version of Vampire and, I believe, the rest of the White Wolf games used "storyteller." So I find "storyteller" cringey due to the association despite it otherwise being an alright word, while "narrator" is free of negative associations.
The direct translation of storyteller would be "contador de estórias", but that would sound too folksy to Brazilians. So, as Geeky assumed correctly, narrador is an acceptable translation of storyteller.
Well yes, I wasn't making a direct translation to Spanish either, which would be "contador de historias", too cumbersome so it was switched to narrador because it's one word and conveys the same meaning.
"Keeper" from Call of Cthulhu is about the only good unique name I can think of. It really depends on the game and what term would make sense. If there was a Matrix rpg I could totally vibe with the GM being called the "Architect". Otherwise just stick to generic.
Or you could go Latin and call yourself the "magister ludi". :o
It's officially Keeper of Arcane Lore but no one says that.
I use "referee" when I play Traveller, because it is the official term there.
Quote from: Nakana on March 30, 2024, 01:05:15 AM
Or you could go Latin and call yourself the "magister ludi". :o
Thanks for the recommendation; I think magister is a viable alternative option with the flavor of the original but without the baggage liable to trigger the ignorant (of history) whiners.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/49d079ecf537c476b986358a266cc1c9/tumblr_inline_pqlk9dOIZp1ukdt0r_540.gifv)