Quote from: Rhedyn;10948735e has the problem of mechanically falling apart before mid levels and it doesn't seem intentional to me.

What do you consider mechanically falling apart?

I think he means that all the classes operate kinda similarly.
Which is kinda true. It's the same with the D&D Races, they're not all very varied and are only aesthetic.

Howdy new members!

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1094876What do you consider mechanically falling apart?

It becomes difficult to actually challenge 5e PCs without a lot of attrition or creating impossible scenarios. "Combat as sport" becomes a chore to pull off.

I also feel like the HP bloat prevents "combat as war" from being fun or exciting at higher levels.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1094897It becomes difficult to actually challenge 5e PCs without a lot of attrition or creating impossible scenarios. "Combat as sport" becomes a chore to pull off.

I also feel like the HP bloat prevents "combat as war" from being fun or exciting at higher levels.

I mean, you could increase enemy damage as a band-aid, but I kinda see what you mean.

Translated, what he really means is that it does something different than what he wants it to do.  He confuses this with "mechanically falls apart".

The way things are looking, Pathfinder 2E is probably going to influence D&D 6E in the same way a cautionary tale would

D&D 5E is solid and ironclad as a system despite its flaws and it is popular enough across the board that it will likely be in production until at least 2024.

I'm guessing 2024 since it would be a good year release the Sixth Edition to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of D&D and the 10th Anniversary of 5th Edition, or at the very least, they'd announce that 6E is in the works.

By 2024, Trump Derangement Syndrome won't be a thing since he will either be out of office or on his way out.

Chances are that by 2024 the cultural pendulum will have swung back against the SJW culture of the 2010's enough to the point that we won't see dumb shit about gender pronouns, tokenism passed off as diversity, or cringe filled rants about how white males are the Devil.

Heck, we still got a little under six months left in this miserable decade and we're already starting to see a major backlash against SJW culture with the uproar over Andy Ngo and innocent men like Vic Mignogna and the Covington Catholic boys fighting back against the commie punks by suing their asses and taking those punk-ass neon-haired bitches to court.

Even major Democrat leaders are finally officially denouncing Antifa and the SJW mob mentality, including major 2020 candidates like Joe Biden. Then there's the Project Veritas leaks providing a goldmine of incriminating evidence for the DOJ to use against the techno-commissars who run Google.

I know we shouldn't talk about politics in the gaming forum, but I am bringing this stuff up because it's important to realize that a lot more people are getting sick of the SJW takeover of our culture and there is a growing backlash. Even with the current SJW climate at WOTC and Gen Con right now, they're reined in mainly because WOTC are a subsidiary of Hasbro.

Hasbro are not "true believers" like Onyx Path or Paizo are, they can't afford to be.

Paizo only got successful and became the second-biggest RPG publisher (and the only one besides WOTC with a consistently visible presence in regular bookstores) because of how badly WOTC dropped the ball with D&D 4E and how the OGL allowed them to make a successful official retro-clone of D&D 3.5 in Pathfinder 1E (even if the game drifted further away from 3.5 as it went along)

Hasbro cares about the bottom dollar first and foremost, and they know that "Get Woke, Go Broke" is being proven more and more every day. And they're not going to let D&D die on the vine if 6E goes woke (like Paradox did to White Wolf when V5 turned into a pretentious wokepunk shitshow) since D&D is still a viable brand and still has a presence in pop culture (especially in the wake of 5E) unlike World of Darkness, which was dead for the most part (although the 20th Anniversary Editions were successful, it was a far smaller success than 5E)

Even with their more profitable IP's taken into account, the fact is that they struck gold in the 2010's with both MTG and the very unexpected resurgence of D&D.

Even if 5E's success is a drop in the bucket compared to their other IP's, the higher-ups at Hasbro are still impressed with how well 5E turned out and how it led to a revitalization of the hobby, which digital self-publishing is helping out.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1094914Translated, what he really means is that it does something different than what he wants it to do.  He confuses this with "mechanically falls apart".

And what does mid-high level 5e do well?

Quote from: Rhedyn;1094917And what does mid-high level 5e do well?

Hit points. Hundreds of hit points. Hit points everywhere...

Honestly closer we get to release more I think PF2E is going to have somewhere between little to no impact. I mean is it just me or outside of there own forums no one is really talking about it at all? compare that to there first edition where people were talking about it all over both in support and in the "this is gonna crash and burn" sense this time theres just...........nothing not even bad mouthing (Which is a really bad sign since any publicity is good publicity and all that)

Quote from: Rhedyn;1094917And what does mid-high level 5e do well?

I'm not going to argue with you about it.  You are a broken record on the subject and clearly not subject to reason.  But about once every 1,000 times you repeat it (I exaggerate only slightly), I'm going to disagree with you.  Consider your next several hundred complaints of that nature to be free and clear.

If someone else wants to talk about it when you aren't around, I'll consider it.

Quote from: Kevin197;1094919Honestly closer we get to release more I think PF2E is going to have somewhere between little to no impact. I mean is it just me or outside of there own forums no one is really talking about it at all? compare that to there first edition where people were talking about it all over both in support and in the "this is gonna crash and burn" sense this time theres just...........nothing not even bad mouthing (Which is a really bad sign since any publicity is good publicity and all that)

That is a good idea actually!

Quote from: Kevin197;1094919Honestly closer we get to release more I think PF2E is going to have somewhere between little to no impact. I mean is it just me or outside of there own forums no one is really talking about it at all? compare that to there first edition where people were talking about it all over both in support and in the "this is gonna crash and burn" sense this time theres just...........nothing not even bad mouthing (Which is a really bad sign since any publicity is good publicity and all that)

Yeah that is a sign that it will crash and burn.  No one is talking about it and thus there is no passion to drive anyone to buy it.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1094922If someone else wants to talk about it when you aren't around, I'll consider it.

I have no opinion on the mechanical viability of higher-level 5e, aside from usual complaints that the spell system is bonkers at higher levels, which is true of pretty much every edition.

So I'd be curious as to your opinion regarding what higher-level 5e does well.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1094931Yeah that is a sign that it will crash and burn.  No one is talking about it and thus there is no passion to drive anyone to buy it.

It will be a massive volume, with great artwork, that will look good on a bookshelf.  I anticipate that several, if not many YouTube RPG reviewers will turn out 20 - 40 minute review videos of PF2E; especially for the Core Rulebook.  Primarily, because it will be the big, shiny, new thing in August, 2019.