Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
I never did in my campaigns & I never realized it was a cliche until I heard about it on the internet about 20 years ago.
Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
I never did that either.
So what do the NPCs want in your games?
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
Yes, sure, quite often, especially when the Players don't know what to do next.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Sometime,s not very often, but Taverns can be a good place for such things, if you have a typical Adventuring Party.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Yes, sure, why not? Temples are a good source for Quests or Scenarios. "We can fix your arm for you, if you do us a teensy weensy favour".
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
Only if they are patrons, or important people. sometimes, you might get a mad old prophet giving out Quests, but that is rare in my games.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820I never did in my campaigns & I never realized it was a cliche until I heard about it on the internet about 20 years ago.
It can be a thing. I don;t use it very often, but have used it in the past. Taverns are a good source of information, so why not get some information in exchange for a Quest?
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
Very, very rarely. I have done so once or twice, at the start of a campaign, but not at the moment.
The trouble with starting in a tavern with a random group of strangers, is that they don;t really have a reason to be together. Maybe if they are all framed and are in it together, maybe, or if they are put on a Quest together, or get into a fight and help each other. It's a very shaky start to a campaign, though.
Quote from: Graytung;1112821So what do the NPCs want in your games?
Power, glory, happiness, revenge none of which is gained by hiring complete strangers in tap rooms.
Quote from: soltakss;1112822Very, very rarely. I have done so once or twice, at the start of a campaign, but not at the moment.
The trouble with starting in a tavern with a random group of strangers, is that they don;t really have a reason to be together. Maybe if they are all framed and are in it together, maybe, or if they are put on a Quest together, or get into a fight and help each other. It's a very shaky start to a campaign, though.
This is my view.
Quote from: soltakss;1112822Yes, sure, quite often, especially when the Players don't know what to do next
My players were always very proactive they generated their own plots.
In many ways my players were the antagonists of the campaign always shaking things up & causing problems.
The NPC's mostly reacted to the players when they stumbled into one of their plots.
Often PC's went to NPC's bearing gifts {bribes} & got themselves involved by making themselves useful especially to Temples.
The OP assumes D&D/fantasy I'm guessing...I don't think it's possible to play an espionage or military game without NPCs giving quests. Unless all the PCs are criminals or something.
That said, for fantasy, it depends. Sometimes sure, it helps move things along. In my sandbox games, there's always a lazy NPC with way too much money and not enough time who needs something done. The players can choose to seek them out or ignore them, though. Taverns are the best trope in swords and sorcery, so I think it's fun to have PCs meet there.
The PCs in my DCC game live in a tavern (The Pig & Whistle, in the City State of the invincible Overlord). One of them is the reigning champion pig wrestler.
I have not done the "random person approaches them in the tavern to ask them to perform a mission". But only because they are not famous enough to garner that kine of attention. When that time comes, it will likely be a false flag or double cross, as my PCs have been accumulating their fair share of enemies.
One PC does have Ningaubule as his patron, so retrieving Mcguffins is going to be a recurring plot theme.
Quote from: Brad;1112827The OP assumes D&D/fantasy I'm guessing...I don't think it's possible to play an espionage or military game without NPCs giving quests. Unless all the PCs are criminals or something.
Not really clear in my OP, but taking orders & doing favors for your superior/boss is not quite what I'm talking about more strangers approaching strangers.
And yes assuming Fantasy.
I didn't have that sort of thing in CoC either & CoC & Fantasy RPG's are about 99% of my gaming experience.
Yes. Quite a bit depending on the setting.
There might be a single NPC hiring people to deal with a problem. Or several. Things might crop up with a new NPC while they are busy with the first. There might even be a job board if the area is a sort of hotspot for trouble or exploration. In such places, especially if the opposition is plentiful. There will tend to be people in need of help for this or that task.
My view is that this is not much different than how it was sometimes run in days of yore where travelling specialists and mercenaries might get hired fro this or that task. They might need reference, or the patrong might be in a hurry or desperate and not care who they are long as the job gets done.
Other times the NPCs are just possible sources of info on the surrounding area. No one is hiring now. That might change later if a problem crops up.The PCs just free roam the area. Successes on their own might get them noticed by someone who has need of adventurers to perform some task.
And tasks do not necessarily mean dungeon delves. They might be asked to deliver a package or letter. Or go pick one up and bring it back. They might just be hired to stand around and look important so the patron isnt bothered. And so on.
As for the "Gather in a tavern" being "cliche"... only to stupid or elitist fucks who cant even bother to grasp the reasons.
I don't know about anyone else, but this whole thread smells like "Look at me, I'm elite, I don't use tropes."
I actually get the impression that the OP is a 20 year old, new to the hobby, never actually played a game type. I'm not saying that's the case, but I'm sure these juvenile points have been discussed an infinite amount of times by now.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112830Not really clear in my OP, but taking orders & doing favors for your superior/boss is not quite what I'm talking about more strangers approaching strangers.
And yes assuming Fantasy.
I didn't have that sort of thing in CoC either & CoC & Fantasy RPG's are about 99% of my gaming experience.
Good for you..? If you don't like NPC quests, don't use them. I find them useful and realistic to some degree. If Conan waltzes into town, and people know who he is, you better believe he's gonna get hit up to do some stuff. Any character over 3rd or 4th level is probably notorious enough to be recognized and asked to do some dirty work for someone.
In one particularly silly campaign I had a sacred order of quest givers who wore question mark topped hats.
Quote from: David Johansen;1112838In one particularly silly campaign I had a sacred order of quest givers who wore question mark topped hats.
If it was a setting like Planescape it could be an ! made of pure light or something.
Nah, I like silly hats. But in an Infinite Worlds game they might be plastic with LEDs in them.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I play Traveller. So Travellers interact with NPCs that tell them somethings.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
I never did in my campaigns & I never realized it was a cliche until I heard about it on the internet about 20 years ago.
Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
I never did that either.
Are you assuming that the NPCs have no connections with the PCs? Quest givers often come from NPCs that have a reason to be communicating their needs to the PCs because of shared bonds. I too avoid NPCs that are dropping jobs into the laps of randos at a tavern, but I frequently use backgrounds (in games like 5e) or membership in organizations (a noble house, guild, corporation, church, social organization or whatever is campaign appropriate) to have appropriate NPCs drop fitting quests.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1112844Are you assuming that the NPCs have no connections with the PCs? Quest givers often come from NPCs that have a reason to be communicating their needs to the PCs because of shared bonds. I too avoid NPCs that are dropping jobs into the laps of randos at a tavern, but I frequently use backgrounds (in games like 5e) or membership in organizations (a noble house, guild, corporation, church, social organization or whatever is campaign appropriate) to have appropriate NPCs drop fitting quests.
Yes I'm talking about generic Dragon Age:Origin style blandness. I assumed it was only an artifact of computer gaming. I am going to be running for new people in a new area just wondered if they are going to expect that kind of hand holding/railroading stranger quests.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112845Yes I'm talking about generic Dragon Age:Origin style blandness. I assumed it was only an artifact of computer gaming. I am going to be running for new people in a new area just wondered if they are going to expect that kind of hand holding/railroading stranger quests.
If the NPC is a total stranger, that's a GM issue; just do a little work and connect the NPC to one or more PCs and the issue is avoided.
Of my 4 current campaigns:
My Primeval Thule campaign started (Jan 2019) with the PCs in a tavern being given a quest, twice - Sunday group by a merchant, Wednesday group by the innkeeper.
My Red Hand of Doom campaign started (August 2019) with the PCs being gathered together & given a quest/mission by the Lord of Brindol.
My Princes of the Apocalypse game started (Jan 2019) with the PCs already together & on a quest, arriving at the tavern.
My Runelords of the Shattered Star game started (November 2015) with the PCs as Pathfinders, at the Pathfinder Lodge being given a mission by the Venture Captain.
So, both taverns & quest givers tend to feature heavily at the start. It's a good way to kick off a campaign. I don't have many quest-giver NPCs *during* the campaign, though.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112845I am going to be running for new people in a new area just wondered if they are going to expect that kind of hand holding/railroading stranger quests.
They are likely to expect some
clear options. The way to immediately cure them of find-the-railroad is to start with at least two different & mutually exclusive options. In my Wilderlands campaign, it was rumours of two different Dungeons. But it could equally well be two different would-be quest givers.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
All the time.
NPCs have a motive. They want something. If they don't have the resources of their own, they will consider asking for the help of those nutters with swords and magic who enjoy risking their lives in monster filled ruins.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Depends on the NPC's social status. Lords send servants with personal invites. Most NPCs of power prefer to meet in their own lairs to emphasize their status. NPCs who want to keep their quests more secret might meet in a noisy tavern.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Often. I have involved gods in my campaigns, much like the Greek Gods. Non-clerics are often members of various temples and being attached to a temple means the temple gets to ask favors and it means you are semi-obligated to the needs of other temple members (of course, depending on the cult's alignment).
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
If that's what's motivating the NPC.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
Unless the PCs have a regular residence in the region, they are probably staying at an inn and the communal area is usually a tavern, but of course, this depends on the campaign.
Cliches are a cliches for a reason--usually meaning they work. They are called cliches because they can be over used and abused, thus taking away some of their value. As with a lot of things in life, the key to good use of cliches is moderation mixed with other things.
I used a bunch of cliches yesterday, including rumors in a tavern, because I was play testing some rules. If you want good feedback on how the rules work, make the situation one that the players can navigate with half their brain. I had other stuff in the situation too, but the players could interact with as little or much of that as they wanted and still make progress. Contra-wise, a situation that drops the cliches altogether works best when the players have internalized the system.
Quote from: S'mon;1112854My Primeval Thule campaign started (Jan 2019) with the PCs in a tavern being given a quest, twice - Sunday group by a merchant, Wednesday group by the innkeeper.
Are you running two groups in the same campaign world simultaneously? How do they interact with each other in-world?
Where it makes sense. Parties without enough funds to get a comrade raised can choose to quest instead. If something is going on in an area the PCs come into and movers and shakers are aware of them, it's likely they'll be approached to see if they can be drawn into (and disrupt to the advantage of one faction or another) the struggles of the area.
The classic "NPC quest" I'd rather not do, but that really depends on how assertive a group of players is in the campaign with their own goals. The players always, always can say no. There are no "this is what we're doing tonight" NPC quests.
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1112863Are you running two groups in the same campaign world simultaneously? How do they interact with each other in-world?
Sunday group ran for 10 weekly-ish sessions from January. Wednesday group has run 31 sessions from February and is still going. PCs could move back and forth between the groups, and often did so.
Campaign blog https://simonsprimevalthule.blogspot.com/
They interacted as individual PCs rather than as permanent adventuring parties. There was some tricky timekeeping around the crossovers, with occasional flashbacks & flash forwards to keep the timeline coherent. Still it worked really well.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
Sometimes.
QuoteI mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Almost never. It's usually the case of the PCs wanting or needing something, and an NPC wanting or needing something in exchange.
QuoteDo they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
I've done something like this. PCs need healing of some sort, but lack the funds for the required donation/purchase of the required items and ingredients for sacrifice and ritual/etc. The high priest might come up with a different arrangement if the PCs can do such-and-such.
QuoteDo you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
Sometimes. This is more common for PCs that have a master/apprentice relationship with an NPC (who probably functions as their trainer when they need to level up). First level magic-user Bocilado wants to advance to 2nd level. His master (a 6th level magic-user) requires him to go such-and-such placed and bring back this-and-that. Perhaps this can even count for part of the training expense.
QuoteAdditionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
I've done that, but not in a long, long time. These days, I'm more likely to just hand-wave the PCs meeting at the start of a campaign. I'll say something like "We're going to begin play assuming your PCs are already acquainted are have agreed to work together. If the details of that matter to you, feel free to work them out. I'll give you about 5 mins or so if you'd like to that. Otherwise, we'll get going with the game..."
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112824Power, glory, happiness, revenge none of which is gained by hiring complete strangers in tap rooms.
Not true.
Don't think modern day. Think a small medieval town. Everyone knows everyone. Gossip is deadly. Who do you hire when you don't want your neighbors to know everything? Strangers. Dangerous, greedy strangers.
Where do you hire them? In an area of town your neighbors don't visit. That raucous tavern full of strangers, wandering merchants, thieves and assorted scum.
If you could do the job yourself, you would have. If you could hire trusted friends, you would have. If you could hire reputable upstanding citizens, you would have. Welcome to the worst option for desperate men...hiring complete strangers in a tap rooms.
Murder Hobos are nobody's first choice.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112826My players were always very proactive they generated their own plots.
You don't even know how lucky you are.
Proactive players are gold.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112845Yes I'm talking about generic Dragon Age:Origin style blandness. I assumed it was only an artifact of computer gaming.
Where do you think cRPGs got these tropes? They stole it from decades of D&D.
As others have mentioned, the key to using tropes and cliches is to make them fresh. Never let them become bland.
Remember the real world doesn't have D&D heroes. However, the D&D worlds have them. Thus, society isn't real world society, but a society where D&D heroes exist and are needed.
Sure, I've done this. It's not a problem, as long as it is something that is happening organically in the campaign world. What you can't do is just have some rando show up with a quest for no good reason, unless you're playing in a very gonzo type of campaign.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1113513Sure, I've done this. It's not a problem, as long as it is something that is happening organically in the campaign world. What you can't do is just have some rando show up with a quest for no good reason, unless you're playing in a very gonzo type of campaign.
Gandalf was just that kind of rando.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
I never did in my campaigns & I never realized it was a cliche until I heard about it on the internet about 20 years ago.
Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
I never did that either.
Interestingly, the PCs in my current DCC game are technically on a fetch quest given by a NPC. The wizard had a book that belonged to his mentor, lost it in the course of play, then when the mentor visited the PCs he was pissed that he'd gotten the book lost. Definitely a good mcguffin quest which caused all kinds of fun issues.
Tropes and clichés exist for a reason, they're common ground, easy-to-grasp concepts. That being said, they're also quite boring. I think framing things in a way that makes sense with the game world and the PCs' interactions is more important than anything else.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
Not usually explicitly, at least not at first. In a long running campaign, increasingly so - as word gets around about a group of capable people, they will get sought out. I expected at lower levels the party to be slightly more self-motivated, but there will be NPCs giving out hints of things to do if people follow up on it, it will just usually be much less explicit than someone approaching you in a bar with a sad story about his lost gold and the ghost of a long-dead warlock, or what have you.
I approach it the way I approach jobs in Shadowrun. When nobody has heard of you and your team, nobody is going to seek you out. You've gotta find jobs yourself, sell yourself to the Mr. Johnsons looking for a team. When you've got a reputation as a team that can get shit done, then people start to come to you, rather than the other way around.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
Not initially, no, never. At least not unless I'm just doing a one-shot game or something, when characters are little more fleshed out than just stat blocks. I always insist that players have some hook to draw them together. I generally stop short of communal character generation sessions, but I've done those before.
Replacement characters for players who lost theirs may get picked up in a tavern, I suppose, or new players to the table. Or any other way that seems apt and not too hard to swing.
It is rather rare to have an NPC give the PCs a quest in my campaign but I've been running it since 1980, so it has happened.
Taverns are often featured but the PCs generally know one another and go to the tavern to eat and drink.
In my forthcoming module, "At the High Point Inn," an NPC transporting valuables has his security team fail to show up and has to hire others, who will be player-characters. That leads into "In the Pass," a second module.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
I never did in my campaigns & I never realized it was a cliche until I heard about it on the internet about 20 years ago.
Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
I never did that either.
Yes, I definitely have NPCs that give quests, but not at the tavern. Taverns are where the players go to look for leads and trouble, but nobody is handing out quests at the bar or anything. My NPC quests are often pretty vague, like "I heard there is some trouble in the next town... if you can go deal with it, I'll pay you."
By the way, for those that don't like NPC quests... why not?
Quote from: HappyDaze;1113527Gandalf was just that kind of rando.
Well, there's a difference between an NPC with a real motivation coming along and doing something that makes sense in the campaign context of a living world, and someone just being invented out of nowhere with nothing more than the superficial motive of giving the PCs direction.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1114779Well, there's a difference between an NPC with a real motivation coming along and doing something that makes sense in the campaign context of a living world, and someone just being invented out of nowhere with nothing more than the superficial motive of giving the PCs direction.
In many cases, that difference is really just one of word count spent on the NPC. Some players even shy away from NPCs with real motivations because they realize those are often conductors ushering them onto a railroad. Of course, sometimes that's what they want, in which case
all aboard!
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
I mean do they approach the PC's at Taverns?
Yes. The Tavern is often the life and the soul of a small town or village. It's a place where stuff gets talked about and where plans get made. In real life I've interacted with strangers in bars that have resulted in me taking up new hobbies, some of which have led to exploration and adventure (expedition kayaking). I've seen a plumber get work from a random stranger in bar, and I've seen a guy come into a bar, talk to a few folk, gather a small crowd and go out to bust some heads. If it's good enough in real life, it's certainly works for a fantasy world.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
Do they tell them their woes at the Temple when the PC's go to get healing?
I've used scenarios that amount to the same thing. The PCs go to the sanctum to get healed and while they learn they aren't the only ones that have needed healing, the healer suggesting that they should check out someone or something.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
Do you have NPC quest-givers distributing "go-fetch" quests?
Some of my group have had patrons in the past, a lot of which boiled down to "go-fetch" quests, although they would have been presented with a bit more of a façade.
Quote from: Kyussopeth;1112820Do you have NPC's giving out Quests in your campaign?
Additionally, do you have party randomly meet in Taverns?
I've had the party meet in taverns, jails, defending the castle walls, in a dungeon mid-session (Oldenhaller Conract – WHFRP), guarding a caravan, lost in the desert, on small boat, in the ruins of what was once the tavern etc. etc. As long as it makes sense in the context of the adventure, I don't think it really matters how or where the party meets.
My NPCs don't stand around with signs saying "Quest Giver" but they do often hire PCs (well, presumably NPCs as well but the players don't see that, typically) to do adventure stuff they want done. NPCs are generally less powerful in adventuring situations but connected to the game world's institutions and other NPCs more thoroughly - so they can produce the 500 gold pieces they offered if the PCs succeed, but don't usually have it in their pockets and have enough other NPC alies that the PCs are ill-advised to try to murder them for the payment instead. Occasionally the NPCs are more powerful, including local authorities, but too busy with other things for the low level quest.
And plenty of NPCs don't hire PCs but set off adventures; they just know stuff that the players can use to find an adventure, or appeal to the PCs to do something without payment (playing on their background or connections or personalities - curiosity, pride, empathy, etc).
Inns (in the common room or attached tavern) make a reasonable place for disparate PCs to meet at pick-up game tables, or they met while traveling to the same location, with a caravan or simply falling in together after some initial suspicion; they might come together by the town gate or in the market square because an NPC publicized their intent to offer an adventuring job.
The only case where an NPC would never "give a quest" in some form would be game worlds where there are no NPCs, or so few that they will be potential adversaries or allies rather than bartenders, shopkeepers, local authorities or bystanders.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1114781In many cases, that difference is really just one of word count spent on the NPC. Some players even shy away from NPCs with real motivations because they realize those are often conductors ushering them onto a railroad. Of course, sometimes that's what they want, in which case all aboard!
The difference should be that if its a real NPC with real motivations, the PCs should have the freedom to respond to him how they like. Of course, part of his motivation might be to try to force them to do something, but it shouldn't be because of metagame pressures.