Sometimes humans are killed. Be they "bandits" or townsfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Are characters ever held accountable to the families of those they kill?
What about the other side? Can surviving characters demand weregild for companions that are killed?
I do remember one particular game where a warning shot at the Town Guard resulted in a nat 20 critting and killing the Guard. That resulted in a trial scene where the party paid the wereguild to get out of prison.
Otherwise it would really depend on the level of the party as well as their Murder-Hobo rating.
Quote from: Shasarak;1124046I do remember one particular game where a warning shot at the Town Guard resulted in a nat 20 critting and killing the Guard. That resulted in a trial scene where the party paid the wereguild to get out of prison.
That's really stupid. "You got a critical success! Congrats! You succeeded so well that you got exactly the opposite of what you wanted!"
Quote from: Xuc Xac;1124060That's really stupid. "You got a critical success! Congrats! You succeeded so well that you got exactly the opposite of what you wanted!"
Dont worry, mate. That was back in ADnD days so getting screwed was just another Tuesday.
In D&D, the weregild would be "get them raised from the dead".
"Raise Dead" spells in a setting have far reaching consequences. In fact, the weregild from a family could be a demand for gold because they don't want you to raise their family member!!! Or when the family member refuses to return to life!!
For my D&D games, weregild seems like a hassle to me, the sort of thing that maybe plays out as "interesting" at first and quickly degenerates into a bookkeeping chore once the novelty wears off and people want to get on with treasure hunting. If the PCs are killing innocent townies or guards doing their jobs, the town leader's having them killed if they get caught, not making them pay a fine.
Yeah, you're getting into some deep waters here.
Note that a variant of weregild might be to set things right. Tricked into killing someone? Unravel the mystery and find out who put you on that path.
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1124089Yeah, you're getting into some deep waters here.
Note that a variant of weregild might be to set things right. Tricked into killing someone? Unravel the mystery and find out who put you on that path.
I was thinking it may be done more often than the responses indicate as it sets up a lot of potential adventures.
It also helps with the immersion in the world.
Maybe for more human centric games as it was often intended to head off feuds.
All my games are about he setting reacting to the events that occur to and around and from the PC's actions. Weregild is *always* on the table. So is bloody vendetta. But conversely, so is tragic loss when those townsfolk justifiably try to exact these things on my PC's and the PC's turn their black hearts upon them... and show them why they believe they're above such concepts.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. That's the game.
Quote from: Greentongue;1124042Sometimes humans are killed. Be they "bandits" or townsfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yes, why not?
Quote from: Greentongue;1124042Are characters ever held accountable to the families of those they kill?
Yes, but the people demanding weregild need to be strong enough to make the PCs pay.
Quote from: Greentongue;1124042What about the other side? Can surviving characters demand weregild for companions that are killed?
Yes, depending on the circumstances. If the PCs attack a village and someone on their side is killed, then it would be difficult. But, if they were attacked out of hand then they could demand payment for their losses.
There were times when bandits turned out to be children of nobility, relying on their family connections to keep from getting hunted down like wolves as they preyed upon commoners. I can easily see PCs getting in trouble that way, although if there are complications like that then the DM needs to give clues to the PCs that something isn't as it seems.
Of course, it could be that the 'Wanted Dead' poster put up was by a rival noble family trying to engage in sub rosa assassination.
Before TBP banned Michael Mornard, IIRC he said something in a thread about players learning to pay attention to clues. A good attitude to take, although I haven't seen many tools intended to help DMs create and dispense those clues.
-Albert
Quote from: Greentongue;1124042Sometimes humans are killed. Be they "bandits" or townsfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Are characters ever held accountable to the families of those they kill?
What about the other side? Can surviving characters demand weregild for companions that are killed?
If held accountable includes being hunted down and killed, yes several times. But that's in nearly forty years of gaming. An entire party (7) that thought that they could hoorah the town of Bad Ankle back in the 1990s found out that dozens of townspeople firing from cover can ruin a cowboy's day. The survivors were hanged without trial. No one quit the game; they just rolled up new characters.
Our hobbits in C.Js game are the local sheriffs but there was a collateral casualty a few weeks ago. Everyone cried and got drunk and ate at the funeral and there were no hard feelings.
I think the characters in my Thursday night game are starting to get that above the law feeling. We will see.
In your games, how often do PCs face the consequences of killing the innocent? Or the powerful?
As gaming is mostly about playing out power fantasies, I've used that judiciously because most players don't enjoy that aspect of world simulation. However, I'm very upfront about the possibility of a comeuppance existing in the game world. They know the powerful are the most likely to seek revenge, but sometimes its from the ones you least expect.
Quote from: Albert the Absentminded;1124121Before TBP banned Michael Mornard,
Gronan got banned??? Perma-banned or did he just get put in TBP's toddler time out?
I think perma-banned. He repeatedly pushed the mods very narrow envelope.
Sagas of the Icelanders, the PbtA game of life in the 10th century Iceland, has this by default. If I remember correctly it's pretty expensive, but there were ways to circumvent it. I think Holmganga (the consensual duel of honor) was one - it's usually to first blood but could be to the death if the participants agreed.
Paying a weregild is actually being merciful. Normally you'd just get executed. I've had players get hit with a 15,000 gold piece fine for destroying a church and killing some of its top clergy, leading to a year long (IRL) quest to reclaim their lost honor and pay back the fine.
It does depend in some sense on the party's own sense of honor. If they're 100% murder hobos, they'll be able to cut down pretty much everyone in their way unless they're like level 1, but then the campaign is effectively just about them being on the run from the law at that point.
For the rest of us left scratching our collective skulls at "Weregild":
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Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1124294Paying a weregild is actually being merciful. Normally you'd just get executed. I've had players get hit with a 15,000 gold piece fine for destroying a church and killing some of its top clergy, leading to a year long (IRL) quest to reclaim their lost honor and pay back the fine.
It does depend in some sense on the party's own sense of honor. If they're 100% murder hobos, they'll be able to cut down pretty much everyone in their way unless they're like level 1, but then the campaign is effectively just about them being on the run from the law at that point.
Is there some sort of rule that I never knew about that everyone you meet has to be a mook? No player-character in my campaign could ever be confident that they could "cut down pretty much everyone in their way," whatever system I was running.
And just to muddy the waters further, in some cases weregild is paid when someone dies under your command.
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings references an incident where King Folcwine of Rohan sent two sons to lead an army in support of Gondor against a Haradrim invasion. Sadly, both sons died in the defense, and Turin II (the Steward of Gondor) would send a great weregild of gold as compensation.
Are PCs required to pay Weregild or can demand Weregild?
Sure...if they're in a place where the culture accepts Weregild.
I may have missed one or two posts, but how exactly does one get a were to stand still long enough to gild them? I would think werewolves, werebears, wereboars, etc. would resist the gilding process.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1124325Is there some sort of rule that I never knew about that everyone you meet has to be a mook? No player-character in my campaign could ever be confident that they could "cut down pretty much everyone in their way," whatever system I was running.
It's a general assumption of adventuring. The player characters are a league above everyone else and that's why they're needed for help.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1124351It's a general assumption of adventuring. The player characters are a league above everyone else and that's why they're needed for help.
It's an assumption, but it's not one everyone uses. In 46 years of gaming, I don't think I've ever run or played in any setting where that assumption was true.
Quote from: Greentongue;1124042Sometimes humans are killed. Be they "bandits" or townsfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Are characters ever held accountable to the families of those they kill?
What about the other side? Can surviving characters demand weregild for companions that are killed?
I suppose I don't know this for certain, but I'm guessing this question is at least partly inspired by Tekumel, where wergeld-like compensation for torts (including death but also injury, property damage, slander, minor slights, etc) is baked pretty hard into the setting?
On Tekumel, it is emphatically a thing. Playing D&D, I don't remember it ever being so much a formal thing in any game I've played in, although, most every game I can remember, killing people (humans) always comes with consequences
Quote from: Zirunel;1124395I suppose I don't know this for certain, but I'm guessing this question is at least partly inspired by Tekumel, where wergeld-like compensation for torts (including death but also injury, property damage, slander, minor slights, etc) is baked pretty hard into the setting?
On Tekumel, it is emphatically a thing. Playing D&D, I don't remember it ever being so much a formal thing in any game I've played in, although, most every game I can remember, killing people (humans) always comes with consequences
While yes, I've used it most often playing in Tekumel, it can certainly apply in most settings that have feuds as a real possibility.
I doubt that most wandering Murder Hobos style games consider it but if I knew all the answers there would be no point in asking.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1124351It's a general assumption of adventuring. The player characters are a league above everyone else and that's why they're needed for help.
Eventually, maybe, they reach that stage but it takes time and trials to get there. Most of the player-characters in my campaigns have been people who are, in their minds,
temporarily adventuring for cause. Professional adventurers have been rare. And most characters who reach a stage where they are leagues above everyone else retire.