Alright the other thread was sort of a "Let's bitch about the problems with the DEADLANDS setting and fictional timeline" thread.
Let's go at it from a different angle here -
How would you make the "Deadlands" idea work better?
Be more believable?
Made Less offensive to various groups?
GEneral Question:
Whats a better way to make an "The Old West With Magic/Spells!" setting?
I remermber there being a thin book compatible with D20 called 'Spellslinger' - Was it any good?
- Ed C.
I personally would do it more "Magic Horror+Wild West," think of it as a subtle take on it. Old World Monsters are real, but few; same with new world monster. A large amount of the major opponents would be humans with black magic, and with rare exceptions magic would be corrupt and dangerous.
I'd keep slavery/Civil war just as it was, but perhaps with some of that magic towards the end, then I'd likely just leave racism/sexism alone. I don't need it to have fun in my games, and I don't think it would add much to play. (That isn't to say some wouldn't occur, just that it wouldn't be a big and notable element.)
It's pretty much the basis of my Whispered West game, where you might fight a gunslinger who steals a lock of hair to loop it through his magical watch--so that when he duels you, it pauses you for a heartbeat. Enough to let him win. A man might pour lead through the eye of a man hanged but was innocent to make sure his bullet struck true, and so on.
I'm actually working on some stuff right now.
I've chosen to go all the way back to 1840. I'm going down two separate paths right now - one for my actual story (doing a book about Oklahoma before the war) and one for my nWoD game that will feature all that game type stuff.
You have to ask yourself, are you married to certain aspects of the genre? The Blue and Grey? Cuz that's another era entirely.
Gunslingers are post civil war also.
Also, how historically accurate do you want to be? I've been researching this pretty much my whole life, so I intend to represent things as historically accurate as it can be, with only a little deviation to allow for a place like Smokefall Ridge (a fictional area in southern Oklahoma where the nWoD will take place) to exist.
Chaosium's 'Aces High' setting LINK (http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=2528) is more to my taste... no big changes to history... add a bit of occult magic/monsters... no wacky steampunk.
It's more like 'Deadwood' or various spaghetti Westerns with some horror elements.
Unfortunately everyone in our 'Deadlands' group (except me) hated 'Deadwood'.
Quote from: Simlasa;426403Unfortunately everyone in our 'Deadlands' group (except me) hated 'Deadwood'.
Never play with those people again.
Quote from: CRKrueger;426416Never play with those people again.
Ha! I think maybe they were 'offended' by all the swearing.
Quote from: Simlasa;426420Ha! I think maybe they were 'offended' by all the swearing.
I don't like it, personally. It's not that I'm offended by the swearing it's just that it's distracting and takes away from everything else going on when it's a constant. The people behind the series said that the slurs and insults people would have thrown around in that time "wouldn't make sense" today. It was also said that "...if you put words like "goldarn" into the mouths of the characters on "Deadwood," they'd all wind up sounding like Yosemite Sam." So they replaced any slur or insult with "Fuck" to keep with the "shockingly crude" feel they wanted for the show.
The word "fuck" was said 43 times in the first hour of the show. It has also been reported that the series had a total count of 2,980 "fucks" and an average of 1.56 utterances of "fuck" per minute of footage.[1] For me it was just annoying enough that I didn't care about what was happening.
1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadwood_%28TV_series%29#Use_of_profanity
Quote from: Simlasa;426420Ha! I think maybe they were 'offended' by all the swearing.
I don't like it, personally. It's not that I'm offended by the swearing it's just that it's distracting and takes away from everything else going on when it's a constant. The people behind the series said that the slurs and insults people would have thrown around in that time "wouldn't make sense" today. It was also said that "...if you put words like "goldarn" into the mouths of the characters on "Deadwood," they'd all wind up sounding like Yosemite Sam." So they replaced any slur or insult with "Fuck" to keep with the "shockingly crude" feel they wanted for the show.
The word "fuck" was said 43 times in the first hour of the show.[1] It has also been reported that the series had a total count of 2,980 "fucks" and an average of 1.56 utterances of "fuck" per minute of footage.[2] For me it was just annoying enough that I didn't care about what was happening.
1 - http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/n_10191/
2 - http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm
When I play Deadlands I like it to have more of a forklore bent than wacky steampunk, ghost rock-powered Weird West flavor. Magic is usually something more rare, superstition is stronger and the bads are more themed around the folklore of the period than what I find in the books. As to the politics of the time I don't think I've been in a game where it has ever been a
huge deal so I never put too much thought into it.
The swearing didn't bother me at all... maybe because I've got friends that talk like that so I'm used to it.
I read somewhere that the guy who created the show came to a meeting with a stack of research to support using the world 'fuck' in the show.
In a Deadwood game I could pull off the colorful swearing but the faux-Shakespearean double-talk that the 'Mayor' puts out would be beyond me... much as I enjoy it.
QuoteWhen I play Deadlands I like it to have more of a forklore bent than wacky steampunk, ghost rock-powered Weird West flavor. Magic is usually something more rare, superstition is stronger and the bads are more themed around the folklore of the period than what I find in the books.
Most all of the creatures in 'Aces High' are from Native American folklore... it gives a different flavor compared to the usual zombies, werewolves and vampires.
I do like the 'rattlers' in Deadlands though... they remind me of the Cthonians in CoC.
I'd stick with history as much as possible, and simply include a section mentioning what was going on with minorities and women that includes some PC options for people who want to play those sorts of characters, preferably with a few historical examples mentioned so that people who wanted to could look them up for inspiration. When I did depart from history, I'd make sure that I didn't require any nonsensical turnabouts or deviations, and that the consequences of those changes interacted with relevant features of the world.
IME, the few minority, gay and women players I know don't really want to pretend that the bad stuff didn't happen when they read a historical setting, they want to have their very existence acknowledged and some information on how they can play someone who is ____ and still fit into the setting.
Yeah, real history, but with secret magic is the way to go. Blatant mashups seldom come out well.
I could still run a Deadlands setting. I would make the following changes however:
The Civil War ends as it does in our time-line.
Mrs. Lincoln is assassinated rather than the President. He goes on to lead an actual, functioning Reconstruction. He is elected to a total of four terms. He remarries during his third term to a woman 25 years his junior. He goes on to have three children with her. Racial relations never achieve the horrific levels they do in our time-line. The Klan fails to ever gain purchase post-war.
The Event still takes place in 1868. Without the CSA the campaign conflicts would be more supernatural based. Though the US-Native American conflicts remain. The US never makes as many gains against the natives. True Native American nations arise. As does Deseret.
The North American continent ends up as a patchwork of nations. But with overall better racial relations. Plus steampunk.
Basically, something closer in tone to Aces & Eights. A more realistic alt-history that doesn't bend over backwards to try to include 20th/21st century social concepts. Keep the prejudice and sexism, because that is prime fodder for roleplaying potential.
I wouldn't really have a problem with the magic level still being just as visible as it is in the default setting. Just make it more credible 19th century culturally.
RPGPundit
I'd use the wonderful map from Kenzer's Aces&Eights: Mexican West, CSA, Deseret, Republic of Texas, etc. I'd make the horror and fantasy increased as you travel west: occult yet known in the big, civilized cities of the coast, and unchained weird and blatant in the interior of the continent. Plus, the magic-users classes from Spellslinger are very, very nice.
Socially, I'd keep the prejudices of the era as they were: it was the real thing those days and, more important, brings drama and grittiness to the game.
Discovered this over on the big purple. Might be useful for people trying to do Western games, whether Deadlands or not. It's a rail map of the US in 1870... done as a D&D hex map.
http://inkwellideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/usrails-rev.gif
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;426769Discovered this over on the big purple. Might be useful for people trying to do Western games, whether Deadlands or not. It's a rail map of the US in 1870... done as a D&D hex map.
http://inkwellideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/usrails-rev.gif
I get a 403 Forbidden error.
Quote from: Cole;426770I get a 403 Forbidden error.
? It's loading fine for me. It might be that the server doesn't allow deep links, in which case, here's the post it came from: http://inkwellideas.com/?p=1018
Try clicking that and then clicking on the image.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;426782? It's loading fine for me. It might be that the server doesn't allow deep links, in which case, here's the post it came from: http://inkwellideas.com/?p=1018
Try clicking that and then clicking on the image.
That worked. Thanks. Excellent map.
So far I like Tetsubo's take on it the best .
Or maybe a blend of his version mixed witrh Pundit's.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;426782? It's loading fine for me. It might be that the server doesn't allow deep links, in which case, here's the post it came from: http://inkwellideas.com/?p=1018
Try clicking that and then clicking on the image.
That's saved. I don't know for what, but I have great certainty that someday it'll be useful.
RPGPundit
A couple more:
Africa continent hex map, sans cities though:
http://inkwellideas.com/?p=1060
Europe:
http://inkwellideas.com/?p=947
Each map has the raw .hxm file so you can open it in Hexographer (free version too) and add cities, move things around, or whatever.
(And yep, the server doesn't allow for direct links from outside to the images. A few years back I found out a picture of my grandma was the #3 Google Image Search result for "grandma" and I didn't care for that.)
I'm afraid that the .png file of that map is not working, the link leads to a "File not found" result. It looks like whoever you were linking to on your blog has since taken it down, which is a real pity. I don't suppose there's some other place it might be?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;427218I'm afraid that the .png file of that map is not working, the link leads to a "File not found" result. It looks like whoever you were linking to on your blog has since taken it down, which is a real pity. I don't suppose there's some other place it might be?
I think you're looking for the Europe map... Yep, the direct png link does go to a 404, but the D&D campaign link 2 lines below it has the map on it, and clicking the map on that page gives you the large version.
Here's the D&D campaign link with the Europe map:
http://admc.pbworks.com/w/page/1397219/FrontPage
(Scroll 3/4 of the way down the page.)
Ah, great! Thank you.
RPGPundit
On the positive side of things.....
The Old West and oppurtunities for Black men to have a career - Have you heard about Bass Reeves?
Take a look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_Reeves
He was among the first Afican Americans and maybe even the first one to receive a commission as a Deputy U.S. Marshal west of the Mississippi.
This part makes it clear there are realk life examples of what I said in the other thread:
......farmed until 1875 when Isaac Parker was appointed federal judge in Fort
QuoteSmith. Parker appointed James F. Fagan as U.S. marshal. It was Fagan's job to hire 200 deputy U.S. marshals. Fagan heard about Bass Reeves who knew Indian Territory and could speak several Indian languages. Fagan recruited Reeves as a deputy U.S. marshal.[2]
Although he arrested some of the most dangerous criminals of the time, Reeves was never shot (despite having his hat and belt shot off on separate occasions). He had to arrest his own son for murder. Reeves worked a total of thirty-two years as a federal peace officer. During his career he worked the Indian Territory, pre-state Oklahoma. At statehood, Reeves became a member of the Muskogee, Oklahoma, police department at the age of 68. Bass Reeves became a legend in the Indian Territory and was one of Judge Isaac C. Parker's, (of Fort Smith, Arkansas' federal court), most valued deputies.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Simlasa;426469The swearing didn't bother me at all... maybe because I've got friends that talk like that so I'm used to it.
I read somewhere that the guy who created the show came to a meeting with a stack of research to support using the world 'fuck' in the show.
In a Deadwood game I could pull off the colorful swearing but the faux-Shakespearean double-talk that the 'Mayor' puts out would be beyond me... much as I enjoy it.
The swearing didn't bother me either, mainly because I talk like that.
I think it'd be fun to try to advance Ars Magica to different time periods and places, and the American west would one of them, along with colonial America and of course the 20th/21st century.
I should note, from the OP, that Spellslinger was indeed a very good game, quite enjoyable, though kind of brief.
Also, I never really managed to get into deadwood. It didn't feel particularly authentic to me, plus I don't care for people who swear.
RPGPundit