Between Dead of Night and Chill 3e, which do you think is the better horror RPG? I'm looking between these 2 games to run some online horror gaming sessions soon.
https://steampowerpublishing.com/dead-of-night/ (https://steampowerpublishing.com/dead-of-night/)
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/148433/Chill-Third-Edition (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/148433/Chill-Third-Edition)
I've run chill 3e and it's delightful.
I've run original Chill for ages. It does the job. No idea about 3e nor Dead of Night.
However, regardless of the system, I highly recommend you pick up SILENT LEGIONS by Sine Nomine / Kevin Crawford as a toolkit / supplement because its pure awesome even if you never use the OSR system. So much GREAT stuff.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions)
Also, Goblinoid Games put out a retro of original Chill called CRYPTWORLD
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/118860/Cryptworld?manufacturers_id=760 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/118860/Cryptworld?manufacturers_id=760)
I own Cryptworld but find that I prefer Chill 3e.
Quote from: Batjon on August 27, 2021, 03:10:40 AM
I own Cryptworld but find that I prefer Chill 3e.
Can you share what the differences are?
Quote from: Batjon on August 26, 2021, 03:17:33 AM
Between Dead of Night and Chill 3e, which do you think is the better horror RPG? I'm looking between these 2 games to run some online horror gaming sessions soon.
https://steampowerpublishing.com/dead-of-night/ (https://steampowerpublishing.com/dead-of-night/)
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/148433/Chill-Third-Edition (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/148433/Chill-Third-Edition)
If I may?
Dead of Night has some neat ideas, but you'd probably be better off running a different game and stealing the good bits of DoN for it. Chill... was an interesting alternative when Call of Cthulhu was the only other horror RPG out there, but there's better options now.
I'd look into Monster of the Week (if you can handle Powered by the Apocalypse style games), Nightbane (horror/dark supers using Palladium's non-MDC systems), Delta Green (which trades Chill's generic organizations vs generic monsters for more flavorful ones vs their take on the Mythos), Silent Legions (because you love D&D-derived systems and Sine Nomine random table generators), Spite and/or Dread (both by Rafael Chandler, and offering a simple and brutal game of super-powered martyrs fighting angels and demons with "haemoglobin bukkake" attacks), or even Hunter the Vigil (because then you can use the entire nWoD product line as a highly detailed monster manual).
Branching out into settings for separate systems a bit: Savage Worlds has a -bunch- of horror themed settings (Deadlands and Rippers are fun, and War of the Dead is a huge zombie apocalypse game), and D&D has Ravenloft options for 2nd, 3rd, and 5th editions (you could do worse than to raid the old 2e modules for scenarios). And I've ran some near Scanners-style games using HERO system before, but you could use anything.
Be careful about Nightbane as it is PG rated take on Hellraiser/Cabal AKA Nightbreed and has that 70s Marvel Satan comics vibe where they WANT to be a sleazy Eerie magazine but the code stops them from getting there yet they constantly strain at the leash.
Example:
There are some beings who thrive on aguish and torture (a phrase you'll see permutations of quite a bit in descriptions of villains in Paladium writing) and they are called....
WAIT FOR it....
A little longer...
TENSION BUILDS....
the Torturians. Which is like calling a plumber a Pipesmanian or something.
What I'm saying is, for a proper horror feel by which I mean a Straub/Barker feel you may want to rename 40% of everything because the tone will not quite click into place with the subject matter.
But if you want that Son of Satan/Werewolf By Knight/Living Zvumbie/Brother Voodoo/early Ghost Rider feel which I would describe as a truncated corniness made nominally 80s kid safe, then Nightbane works fine as is.
I don't own either but I do have Chill 2e which I really like - well-written, solid system and GM advice, evocative and atmospheric art.
Reviews of 3e are mixed - gameplay wise, they have apparently streamlined the rules quite a lot from 2e, and introduced some sort of token exchange economy between players and GM to allow more player agency in the plot, which might be a plus or a minus for you. I've seen it slated for poor writing, layout and organisation, bad art, and poorly thought through additions to the game's background. According to somebody's review on drivethru 3e has been made more "inclusive". Apparently the intro story is a comic strip about a transitioning teenager getting involved in the fight against the darkness, and having a fight with their ex-monster-hunting father over pronouns in the process. Then again I almost always skip game fiction anyway.
My advice is Chill 2e is worth a look. It is less than half the price of 3e (in pdf anyway) and there is a free quickstart
Quote from: Marchand on August 28, 2021, 12:45:12 PM
My advice is Chill 2e is worth a look. It is less than half the price of 3e (in pdf anyway) and there is a free quickstart
I suspect 3e isn't going to live so much longer either. Someone else looks like they own the IP and are working on a 4th edition.
Quote from: Habitual Gamer on August 27, 2021, 03:36:29 PM
Dead of Night has some neat ideas, but you'd probably be better off running a different game and stealing the good bits of DoN for it. Chill... was an interesting alternative when Call of Cthulhu was the only other horror RPG out there, but there's better options now.
I think other people have more experience with Chill. I reviewed Dead of Night back in 2007. My conclusion was:
QuoteAs I mentioned, this is a short game with a lot of options. Under a vanilla scenario with a GM-controlled monster attacking human PCs, the contest rules can be a little dull. There are no maneuvers or positioning, and few (if any) modifiers. Essentially the same roll of Assault vs Protect can be repeated many times until the one side or the other is out of Survival Points. I think it is more interesting to use the various options -- like playing the monsters, hidden monsters, distributed GMing, and many others. However, most of these are only sketchily detailed. I think it is a promising system, but it needs more fleshing out of the options to be more than a one-shot system.
On the good side, I think the pocket format is excellent. Character creation is extremely quick, so it is easy to hand out cards, make characters, and jump into play. The symmetric rolls are fast and fit well with the horror genre.
On the bad side, the basic mechanic can be dull. Combat in this system doesn't have a lot of options, and over several rounds can be mechanically repetitive.
Full review here: https://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/reviews/deadofnight.html
Quote from: Lynn on August 28, 2021, 06:38:12 PM
Quote from: Marchand on August 28, 2021, 12:45:12 PM
My advice is Chill 2e is worth a look. It is less than half the price of 3e (in pdf anyway) and there is a free quickstart
I suspect 3e isn't going to live so much longer either. Someone else looks like they own the IP and are working on a 4th edition.
This is not completely accurate. Martin Caron is the current owner of the IP and has been for many years, even when the 3rd. edition was being developed by Growling Door Games.
Salt Circle Games is now developing new content for the game and you can subscribe to their Patreon where they are making new content, including the book Horrors of the Unknown Vol 1, which is already out. They are also developing updates and expansions to the core rules for 3e and depending on how that goes, are considering folding it into an eventual 4th. edition of the game, but so far it is more that they are just adding on and expanding what is already there in 3e.
Quote from: Batjon on August 30, 2021, 10:01:40 AMThis is not completely accurate. Martin Caron is the current owner of the IP and has been for many years, even when the 3rd. edition was being developed by Growling Door Games.
Salt Circle Games is now developing new content for the game and you can subscribe to their Patreon where they are making new content, including the book Horrors of the Unknown Vol 1, which is already out. They are also developing updates and expansions to the core rules for 3e and depending on how that goes, are considering folding it into an eventual 4th. edition of the game, but so far it is more that they are just adding on and expanding what is already there in 3e.
Is anyone keeping the game in print? I saw a reply from Martin on DriveThruRPG, but I couldn't see any obvious relationship between him and SCG, and a whole lot more about the previous scandal / drama.
Quote from: palaeomerus on August 27, 2021, 07:11:17 PM
Be careful about Nightbane as it is PG rated take on Hellraiser/Cabal AKA Nightbreed and has that 70s Marvel Satan comics vibe where they WANT to be a sleazy Eerie magazine but the code stops them from getting there yet they constantly strain at the leash.
Example:
There are some beings who thrive on aguish and torture (a phrase you'll see permutations of quite a bit in descriptions of villains in Paladium writing) and they are called....
WAIT FOR it....
A little longer...
TENSION BUILDS....
the Torturians. Which is like calling a plumber a Pipesmanian or something.
What I'm saying is, for a proper horror feel by which I mean a Straub/Barker feel you may want to rename 40% of everything because the tone will not quite click into place with the subject matter.
But if you want that Son of Satan/Werewolf By Knight/Living Zvumbie/Brother Voodoo/early Ghost Rider feel which I would describe as a truncated corniness made nominally 80s kid safe, then Nightbane works fine as is.
Tonally it's all over the place. There's "blink and you miss it" mature stuff scattered throughout, the later books (after Carella stepped away especially) get more and more fixated on concepts of cosmic balance it can seem, and it suffers from being a Palladium game. That is, the rules for character creation are probably cut-n-paste from another Palladium game... and literally unworkable RAW because of it. But even if they do work, things like party balance and speed of play are a pipe dream, and you'll be -constantly- tracking hit point loss and regeneration among at least one other changing resource pool. It's a mess.
Which, if you're not familiar with Palladium games, has to be seen as a feature rather than a flaw. Palladium was OSR before OSR was a thing, and have basically been tweaking on the same game engine since the 80's (MDC was their last big change, but it doesn't apply to Nightbane). Alternatively, you can gut the system and keep the setting (which even the author admitted to doing for some of his Palladium games), and that's where Palladium's stuff tends to stand out better.
Still, I find it one of the more interesting settings. Nightbane are people who discover they're unique monsters (think Clive Barker's "Nightbreed", an obvious inspiration), trapped in a way against the Nightlords, sorcerer gods from another dimension who want to -slowly- kill all life on Earth for the magical boost they get. One day, the world went without sun for 24 hours, and now authoritarian governments, hate groups, etc. are rising up out of fear (and Nightlord manipulations) to help choke the world in the name of safety. To help the Nightbane are weird alien/angel beings (who may not be as good as they claim), spellcasters and wielders of magical artifacts, rogue vampires, dream lords, psychics, and so on. Meanwhile, the Nightlords have access to evil duplicates, alien monsters, cults, traitors, etc. Scenarios (IME) can be a bit like your standard "Monster of the Week" story, except with more espionage, more monsters, and bigger battles (PCs throwing around energy blasts... or cars... or their own exploding/regenerating head).
Quote from: Lynn on August 27, 2021, 02:31:30 PM
Quote from: Batjon on August 27, 2021, 03:10:40 AM
I own Cryptworld but find that I prefer Chill 3e.
Can you share what the differences are?
Cryptworld is an OSR clone of Chill 1e, and a very good one. It's totally compatible with all the 1e modules and sourcebooks, in addition to working well with the Mayfair edition material. Plus, it has had pretty solid support from Goblinoid Games for close to a decade now.
Chill 3e, from what I understand, is an entirely new system, making it less compatible. I will say that I like a lot of the art produced for the game--the more realistic color images are well done and seem to set a pretty solid tone. Cryptworld relies on an old school line art style that I also like, I just wish there was more of it. But while it self-consciously has a throwback 1980s horror tone, you can do anything with Cryptworld. Serious modern day supernatural, gothic, campy, etc.
Quote from: Spinachcat on August 26, 2021, 06:52:26 PM
I've run original Chill for ages. It does the job. No idea about 3e nor Dead of Night.
However, regardless of the system, I highly recommend you pick up SILENT LEGIONS by Sine Nomine / Kevin Crawford as a toolkit / supplement because its pure awesome even if you never use the OSR system. So much GREAT stuff.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions)
Also, Goblinoid Games put out a retro of original Chill called CRYPTWORLD
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/118860/Cryptworld?manufacturers_id=760 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/118860/Cryptworld?manufacturers_id=760)
I'd vote for Cryptworld over the both of them. Chill 1E I have experience with. I read C3 but I am not really super fond of the whole SAVE thing tbh. Never was that big on using large organizations for monster hunting games.
Technically Cryptworld has organizations that you can use (which I use in my campaign), but yes they're not built into every adventure in the same way as Chill.
There's just something about Chill 1e being the original Gothic/non-cosmic horror game that continues to inspire, and Cryptworld preserved that game and updated it rather nicely. I've thought about giving Chill 3e a try but it just seems too different for me. As clunky as action table mechanics may be, it just doesn't feel like the game without them.
If you like vampire-themed horror, then there's Night's Black Agents. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/340/Pelgrane-Press/subcategory/561_20365/Nights-Black-Agents
It even has conversion of Paul Feval's Vampire City from the 19th century. https://site.pelgranepress.com/index.php/tag/vampire-city/
Quote from: Dropbear on September 06, 2021, 06:44:11 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat on August 26, 2021, 06:52:26 PM
I've run original Chill for ages. It does the job. No idea about 3e nor Dead of Night.
However, regardless of the system, I highly recommend you pick up SILENT LEGIONS by Sine Nomine / Kevin Crawford as a toolkit / supplement because its pure awesome even if you never use the OSR system. So much GREAT stuff.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions)
Also, Goblinoid Games put out a retro of original Chill called CRYPTWORLD
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/118860/Cryptworld?manufacturers_id=760 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/118860/Cryptworld?manufacturers_id=760)
I'd vote for Cryptworld over the both of them. Chill 1E I have experience with. I read C3 but I am not really super fond of the whole SAVE thing tbh. Never was that big on using large organizations for monster hunting games.
I run Chill 3e without Save I also dislike it
It does seem sort of weird in retrospect why Chill 3e decided to stay with SAVE. It seems like such a relic of the game's past that it may have been wiser to totally junk it for a truly modern re-do of the game. Everything else about Chill 3e seems to say modern horror except that.
That being said, I don't mind investigative organizations in Cryptworld or Chill. They certainly make it easier for the GM to explain how players get to where they're at and to supply them with necessary resources when appropriate. I would, though, like to run a campaign without one just to see how it plays. I assume it would involve plenty of Direct Action Checks and asking NPCs for help getting to locations. (I guess that Bribery skill would come in handy too.)
Just found this recent podcast, and it sounds like there's a new re-make of Chill in the works in the tradition of Cryptworld:
https://thisoldungeon.podbean.com/e/episode-10-pacesetter-and-chill/
Quote from: Yeti Spaghetti on September 13, 2021, 01:36:11 AM
Just found this recent podcast, and it sounds like there's a new re-make of Chill in the works in the tradition of Cryptworld:
https://thisoldungeon.podbean.com/e/episode-10-pacesetter-and-chill/
Any idea at what timestamp they actually discussed this Chill-like new game in development? I am almost 40 minutes into listening already and there has been no mention.
I jumped ahead to 51 minutes, and they talk about Chill after that for about 45 minutes.
I think they are finally getting into it at around the 52 minutes mark.
I don't agree with everything that Barsh says. For example, I doubt that their goal is to make a widely popular game that attracts the "5e crowd." I just don't see how you do that with a horror game at this point. But if their goal is to pick up where Cryptworld seems to have left off (given that Goblinoid has been pretty silent lately) and where Chill 3e seems to have floundered, then I support what he wants to do.
I think OSR-style modules (and as many as possible) with a core mechanics that offers easier play while retaining some of what made Chill 1e great would be a tantalizing option. I just hope they don't make things so different that there's little compatibility with earlier material, which was Chill 3e's mistake.
I may still stick with the Chill 1e/Cryptworld rules, but I look forward to traditional individual modules.
I have owned Cryptworld from its release and just cannot get myself to like the imho antiquated system. I found Chill 3e much more to my liking. I disagree with him on Chill 2e as well. Chill 2e is an excellent ruleset. It is actually what we were playing here in my group locally before Chill 3e. There are still things being created and released for Chill 3e by Salt Circle Games and it is not true that they or Martin Caron, the current owner of the Chill IP, are just sitting on the IP to bury it. They are actually developing new rules for the game and are thinking of eventually releasing the updates to 3e as a 4th, edition of the game.
2 years is also a long wait for their version of the game.
Agreed. I'm not as negative on the Mayfair version as he is, since it's the horror game that I started with 30 years ago. And yes, two years is an eternity in the gaming world, I would think. By that time there very well could be a lot of new support for both Cryptworld and Chill 3e. But I think Barsh is sort of looking at the lay of the land right now and figuring that there's a vacuum, and I sort of agree.
I think Goblinoid is missing an opportunity to do more with the Pacesetter line, which would help Cryptworld by default. (I know how you feel about the system, but there's still a lot of love for it as creaky as it is.) Their website hasn't been updated in over a year and their forum is down. If they're not going to offer any more support they should say so, IMHO. In the meantime, there seems to be room for competition. And if Barsh can pull off OSR horror modules with great ideas, compatibility, and art that is reminiscent of Chill 1e, I think there's a definite market for that.
I agree wholeheartedly about the adventures and I want to see what they come up with overall. I need to sit down one day and force myself to read Cryptworld again and try it in play to see if it plays for me any better than what I'm envisioning in my head.
I wish Goblinoid would do more to support it as well.
I just received my backer KS PDF of They Came From Beyond the Grave by Onyx Path Publishing and this is the NEW chill. It captures the EXACT same aesthetic/ambiance as Chill 1e.
Here is its description:
"They Came from Beyond the Grave! is a dramatic, hammy, and horrifying tabletop roleplaying game encompassing the shock, terror, eroticism, and humor of 1970s horror. This game allows you to play with all the magnificent content from the movies of Hammer, Amicus, and Roger Corman, and promises the fun and thrills of the horror movie genre!
In They Came from Beyond the Grave!, you play humans faced with the horrors of the supernatural. You'll find yourself pitted against vampires, werewolves, ghosts, and constructed critters, along with demons, slashers, and THE DEVIL HIMSELF. Adventures range from the one-shot exploration of a haunted house, to the multi-era play across the 19th century and 1970s.
They Came from Beyond the Grave! contains a mix of serious threat, unmitigated ham, and nonsensical farce. We never tell you what is amusing and what is not, but we do provide the tools to make a seriously fun game incorporating all the elements of 1970s horror movies. This game provides rules for funny quips and amusing cinematics for incorporation in a story, along with dozens of special powers and story devices."
If I can find some peeps, I am going to run some sessions online and will show brand new folks how to play. Anyone in this forum that is interested can PM me and I will invite you to the Discord server I am setting up for the game.
Quote from: Batjon on September 23, 2021, 04:49:32 PM
I just received my backer KS PDF of They Came From Beyond the Grave by Onyx Path Publishing and this is the NEW chill. It captures the EXACT same aesthetic/ambiance as Chill 1e.
Here is its description:
"They Came from Beyond the Grave! is a dramatic, hammy, and horrifying tabletop roleplaying game encompassing the shock, terror, eroticism, and humor of 1970s horror. This game allows you to play with all the magnificent content from the movies of Hammer, Amicus, and Roger Corman, and promises the fun and thrills of the horror movie genre!
In They Came from Beyond the Grave!, you play humans faced with the horrors of the supernatural. You'll find yourself pitted against vampires, werewolves, ghosts, and constructed critters, along with demons, slashers, and THE DEVIL HIMSELF. Adventures range from the one-shot exploration of a haunted house, to the multi-era play across the 19th century and 1970s.
They Came from Beyond the Grave! contains a mix of serious threat, unmitigated ham, and nonsensical farce. We never tell you what is amusing and what is not, but we do provide the tools to make a seriously fun game incorporating all the elements of 1970s horror movies. This game provides rules for funny quips and amusing cinematics for incorporation in a story, along with dozens of special powers and story devices."
If I can find some peeps, I am going to run some sessions online and will show brand new folks how to play. Anyone in this forum that is interested can PM me and I will invite you to the Discord server I am setting up for the game.
Onyx Path? My interest has dried up immediately. Even if they weren't on the Red list, I already know they suck at game design.