The premise sounds pretty neat but from what I've read the game machanics seem overerly complicated. Trying to play poker and an RPG at the same time seems a little retarded. Can any one shead some light on this? Is there a non-deck using edition of the game? Is it worth my while from the get go?
Quote from: Thanos;323048The premise sounds pretty neat but from what I've read the game machanics seem overerly complicated. Trying to play poker and an RPG at the same time seems a little retarded. Can any one shead some light on this? Is there a non-deck using edition of the game? Is it worth my while from the get go?
Deadlands Reloaded uses the Savage Worlds system, which is completely different from the original edition. Cards are used for initiative, but that's it (and it's pretty minor and could easily be replaced with die rolling.)
I'd suggest Deadlands Reloaded, mostly because I find Savage World's simpler than original Deadlands. I liked the mechanics in concept but found them a bit more difficult to juggle in play, and generally I like cards as potential randomizerzs in play.
Reloaded uses Savage Worlds which uses cards for initiative (and has a few edge based tricks based on that setup.) Otherwise though it uses dice for resolution. You need two books to play--Savage Worlds and Deadlands Reloaded, but you can get the Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition for under ten dollars, so its not terrible.
The poker element really only applies to Hucksters (Weird West), and the combat system uses drawn cards to control the order of combat lending to it a "poker" feel.
But dont think for one minute it dominates the game.
Deadlands was ok, but these days I'd strongly recommend Aces & Eights.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;323070Deadlands was ok, but these days I'd strongly recommend Aces & Eights.
Someone mentions complexity as an issue and you try to sell them on Aces & Eights?
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;323101Someone mentions complexity as an issue and you try to sell them on Aces & Eights?
Seanchai
The deck of cards and poker chips work in Deadlands, quite well imho
The horror and western mix was almost perfect in Deadlands. They also had a great line in mythos too. What killed it was the serialised backstory/metaplot handed out each book release.
If you want a similar feel go for Call of Cthulhu, but set in the same era.
Quote from: Lawbag;323152The horror and western mix was almost perfect in Deadlands. They also had a great line in mythos too. What killed it was the serialised backstory/metaplot handed out each book release.
If you want a similar feel go for Call of Cthulhu, but set in the same era.
And when the meta-plot ended, it ended... badly
I was consistently disappointed with the supplement (splat book's) references to required books to be able to use the adventure or additional rules. It then proceeded to reveal some small tidbit of information, and the promise it will all be revealed in the next book. Which blatantly it wasnt.
Im sure some enterprising lawyer could raise a lawsuit against PEG for their mis-representation of the product.
For all said and done, I do adore the books, and the world, and even have a soft spot for the back story.
Quote from: Randaconda;323156And when the meta-plot ended, it ended... badly
And there are still questions they refuse to answer unless they get to make a movie...
/sigh
Quote from: Lawbag;323162I was consistently disappointed with the supplement (splat book's) references to required books to be able to use the adventure or additional rules. It then proceeded to reveal some small tidbit of information, and the promise it will all be revealed in the next book. Which blatantly it wasnt.
Im sure some enterprising lawyer could raise a lawsuit against PEG for their mis-representation of the product.
For all said and done, I do adore the books, and the world, and even have a soft spot for the back story.
Yeah, that annoyed the fuck out of me too...
But I do looooooooove the setting. I've always been in love with big gonzo settings(Hell, I still have all my Rifts books).
Quote from: jadrax;323166And there are still questions they refuse to answer unless they get to make a movie...
/sigh
What kind of questions?
Quote from: Randaconda;323190What kind of questions?
Who the fuck is the Cackler, apart from him being the first harrowed.
Quote from: jadrax;323193Who the fuck is the Cackler, apart from him being the first harrowed.
You're right :angry:
Their is also a Gurps and D20 version of the Deadlands rules.
The D20 version is an awful hacthet job. It's not even D20 Modern based, it is based D&D 3e with a bunch of tweaks. We muddled through - it not the first or last time I'll run a game with incomplete of half-backed rules, but I would not reccomend it.
Quote from: Soylent Green;323204Their is also a Gurps and D20 version of the Deadlands rules.
The D20 version is an awful hacthet job. It's not even D20 Modern based, it is based D&D 3e with a bunch of tweaks. We muddled through - it not the first or last time I'll run a game with incomplete of half-backed rules, but I would not reccomend it.
I have the GURPS version and both books ofr it. It was actually pretty well done.
But nothing will beat the sheer awesomness of the GURPS conversions of the first three oWoD books :worship:
I wish I could stand the GURPS rules, because the supplements for it are pretty much always spot on.
Quote from: jadrax;323208I wish I could stand the GURPS rules, because the supplements for it are pretty much always spot on.
GURPS is my favorite system :cool:
I'm working on a subtler horror game in the west, called Whispered West, but its still in pretty much rough note form. (I've got the style of attributes, an idea for a system and PC's roles in play and little more.)
I know that Whispered West, just assumes history is the same as its always been, but behind the scenes black magic has lurked, its up to the PC's to deal with those black magic people and the things they stir up. I doubt you'll see much in the way of vampires, werewolves, or corporeal undead--but black magic, spirits, and the like. Of course the system will use cards, but use them very simply and speedily.
Quote from: Thanos;323048The premise sounds pretty neat but from what I've read the game machanics seem overerly complicated. Trying to play poker and an RPG at the same time seems a little retarded. Can any one shead some light on this? Is there a non-deck using edition of the game? Is it worth my while from the get go?
1) You don't try to play poker and an RPG at the same time. A couple of character types have arcane abilities powered by making poker hands. I have never had to generate a poker hand as a player, because I've never played one of those character types.
2) The only non-deck (that I am aware of) are GURPS Deadlands and d20 Deadlands, and they may still use decks. That said, I just run Deadlands Reloaded (Savage Worlds) again today, and while it does still use cards, it rocks on toast.
Savage Worlds is my favorite RPG right now, and Deadlands is one of my favorite settings of all time.
Quote from: Seanchai;323101Someone mentions complexity as an issue and you try to sell them on Aces & Eights?
Seanchai
A&8s doesn't have to be complex, its a question of how many optional rules you use. And now that I've done some actual play, using pretty much all of the optional rules, I've found that in actual play it plays pretty smoothly IF: a) the GM has read the rules carefully and b) the Players are being careful to keep track of their shit, and not slack off and have to make the GM look it all up for them moment to moment.
That said, I get your point, and certainly if you want a less complex system for western RP, I would strongly recommend Coyote Trail.
RPGPundit
D20 Deadlands pretty much put the nail in the coffin for the original Deadlands game in the same way D20 helped kill off 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures.
Quote from: Lawbag;323818D20 Deadlands pretty much put the nail in the coffin for the original Deadlands game in the same way D20 helped kill off 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures.
The reason d20 killed Classic Deadlands was two-fold: 1) It was crap. Shane Hensley admits to this. They had no real idea what they were doing. 2) The lost the information war. They were releasing dual stat books with d20 logos, but a lot of folks didn't realize that they were dual-stat, so word got around that Classic was cancelled...which became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'm in a classic Deadlands game right now... the rules are simple... it's fun, but I'm finding it's not what I expected or wanted.
Most of my issues with it probably stem from our group's take on it, but the game itself seems to encourage them.
Too many powerful NPCs who are untouchable because of the metaplot... and the horror elements really seem to get watered down by the comedy/gonzo stuff... especially the mad scientist crap.
I like gonzo just fine but I was (and still am) in the mood for a 'straight' horror western game... like the aforementioned COC old west or Aces High (new horror western setting for BRP).
Do any of the D20 books for Deadlands hold any value for the Classic Deadlands player?
Quote from: Lawbag;324085Do any of the D20 books for Deadlands hold any value for the Classic Deadlands player?
Not in my estimation.
Seanchai
Quote from: Lawbag;324085Do any of the D20 books for Deadlands hold any value for the Classic Deadlands player?
Just the dual stat ones. The rest were basically cut and paste from Classic books.
Yes, D20 was the nail in the coffin of Deadlands and 7th Sea, though it was really just their final blow, they'd been in decline for a while before that.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;324582Yes, D20 was the nail in the coffin of Deadlands and 7th Sea, though it was really just their final blow, they'd been in decline for a while before that.
RPGPundit
It was the final nail for both games. Point taken.
But seeing as there is a fan base for both games, was it a case of the company´s moving on to newer and or more profitable ventures.
Quote from: Simlasa;324049I'm in a classic Deadlands game right now... the rules are simple... it's fun, but I'm finding it's not what I expected or wanted.
Most of my issues with it probably stem from our group's take on it, but the game itself seems to encourage them.
Too many powerful NPCs who are untouchable because of the metaplot... and the horror elements really seem to get watered down by the comedy/gonzo stuff... especially the mad scientist crap.
I like gonzo just fine but I was (and still am) in the mood for a 'straight' horror western game... like the aforementioned COC old west or Aces High (new horror western setting for BRP).
The "untouchable NPCS" bit is a common complaint from Classic. In the Savage Worlds version, all the major NPCs are fully statted, complete with "Hey, we have something big planned for these guys, but if you wanna go ahead and kill them off, here are their weaknesses."
As for stuff like mad scientists...I ran the game for years without a mad scientist, or any of their inventions, even being MENTIONED. Just didn't come up. When I finally did bring in a mad scientist, he creeped one of the players out with his weird quirks.