Quote from: Mistwell on May 24, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Often there is a lot of discussion here about who plays D&D these days. Here is some semi-official data on that I thought might be worth discussing here.

According to Wizards' internal studies of the player population:

60% of D&D players are male, 39% are female, and 1% identify otherwise
60% are "hybrid" players, who switch between playing the game physically or online
58% play D&D on a weekly basis
48% identify as millennials, 19% from Generation X and 33% from Generation Z
The majority of current D&D players started with 5th Edition. This is a recent shift, as previously the most popular answer for this question was 2nd edition

That was a survey of 5e players for the most part. The OSR players were not invited unless someone made them aware of the survey URL at the time.

Quote from: S'mon on May 28, 2023, 02:43:24 PMIME Tomb of Annihilation attracted a lot of black players, because it was set in a cool pseudo-Africa

Thats a really....improbably premise in my opinion, any more so then saying a setting really attracts white people for being set in pseudo-Scandinavia.
Like when it comes to black people, a lot of them like Dragonball and Naruto (and Yugioh TCG is strangely popular with them as well).

I think one of the most popular RPGs from Brazil was one of the most weeb-ish and wannabe anime things I have seen in recent memory. It was fun from what I remember (based on D&D 3e).

Not saying the secret to black hearts is anime. Im saying that the sort of people that like pasty lame white people's hobbies, are the sort of people not to really care. It might be a "Oh thats neat" but not a "Oh boy, blackness, do I feel represented!"

Quote from: Mistwell on May 26, 2023, 06:37:26 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 25, 2023, 06:24:33 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 24, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Often there is a lot of discussion here about who plays D&D these days. Here is some semi-official data on that I thought might be worth discussing here.

According to Wizards' internal studies of the player population:

60% of D&D players are male, 39% are female, and 1% identify otherwise

I think we can throw these numbers in the trash. If they count those who "identify otherwise" as a category, how many of the other categories are just "identifying" as such?

You're hung up on 1% thinking that is enough to trash the entire thing? Weird.

No. I'm considering the category to be indicative of a skewed method. Not the number.

It's not 40% women.  I remember a large hobby shop I game at and they had 4 women to about 20 men.  When you go to a large gaming convention you see about 20% women playing.  I would not be surprised if the "women" they got were millenial men who think they are women or they did some very creative cherry picking to pump up those numbers.

Their Gen X number is low because they have been encouraged to play other games by Wotc behavior.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on May 28, 2023, 10:48:42 PM

Quote from: S'mon on May 28, 2023, 02:43:24 PMIME Tomb of Annihilation attracted a lot of black players, because it was set in a cool pseudo-Africa

Thats a really....improbably premise in my opinion

It's not a 'premise', it's an observation. The only time I ever saw multiple black players at the same table at the London D&D Meetup was when I played in a Tomb of Annihilation campaign.

I GM'd for one of those black players, Dionne, later in my own Wilderlands campaign. When her PC died, she had the choice of raising that PC, or raising Nemesis, an NPC, and playing her as her future PC. Nemesis was a very blonde, very topless, very German, Amazon - pic included. Dionne grabbed Nemesis' character sheet with both hands, taking it away from the Spanish guy who was also slavering over it.  She played Nemesis for years, long after another guy took over that campaign (stealing my players!). 

So, I'd say two things can both be true:

1. Black nerds like cool black stuff. I remember the first Black Panther movie was really popular with African friends of mine, former students.
2. Black nerds like cool non-black stuff, including un-PC stuff.

Female participation in my neck of the woods has run from about 33-50% pretty much regardless of genre except for the one female GM whose VTT players are all men.

Now an interesting correlary is that these are all home/regular FLGS campaigns and, while it's anecdotal, the ladies have shown far less interest in attending conventions than the men have. Some are mothers with younger children, but I suspect that for others the idea of one-shot adventures running a random pregen just isn't their jam.

So I really have no reason to doubt WotC's sex breakdown as that's pretty much in the middle of the range I've experienced in the last decade.

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 24, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
2 other points:

1) I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that a lot of the female players have few books outside of the player's manual, and most probably aren't too knowledgeable about the game mechanics.

2) Once the fad-bubble for acting nerdy pops, the hobby will shed a TON of the new type of players, and to play Nostradamus again, most of them will be the women.

Some will obviously stay, because some chicks are actually cool, and have minimal cooties.

Re #1 -- you just mean most players right? Because frankly . . . most players probably don't own any books at all.

Quote from: Thondor on May 30, 2023, 02:14:38 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 24, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
2 other points:

1) I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that a lot of the female players have few books outside of the player's manual, and most probably aren't too knowledgeable about the game mechanics.

2) Once the fad-bubble for acting nerdy pops, the hobby will shed a TON of the new type of players, and to play Nostradamus again, most of them will be the women.

Some will obviously stay, because some chicks are actually cool, and have minimal cooties.

Re #1 -- you just mean most players right? Because frankly . . . most players probably don't own any books at all.

I know plenty of players that have to own every book for any game they play, and often everything for any game that just interests them.

Then a bunch that just own player guide type books, so they can level up their characters without waiting on a shared book.

Then there's a minority that you're lucky if they bring a pencil.

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 30, 2023, 02:28:38 PM

Quote from: Thondor on May 30, 2023, 02:14:38 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 24, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
2 other points:

1) I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that a lot of the female players have few books outside of the player's manual, and most probably aren't too knowledgeable about the game mechanics.

2) Once the fad-bubble for acting nerdy pops, the hobby will shed a TON of the new type of players, and to play Nostradamus again, most of them will be the women.

Some will obviously stay, because some chicks are actually cool, and have minimal cooties.

Re #1 -- you just mean most players right? Because frankly . . . most players probably don't own any books at all.

I know plenty of players that have to own every book for any game they play, and often everything for any game that just interests them.

Then a bunch that just own player guide type books, so they can level up their characters without waiting on a shared book.

Then there's a minority that you're lucky if they bring a pencil.

My favorite players are those that use digital dice and use D&D beyond to run their character.  It's like "bud could you spend "tree fifty" for the hobby shop and at least buy some dice?".

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 30, 2023, 03:18:16 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 30, 2023, 02:28:38 PM

Quote from: Thondor on May 30, 2023, 02:14:38 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 24, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
2 other points:

1) I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that a lot of the female players have few books outside of the player's manual, and most probably aren't too knowledgeable about the game mechanics.

2) Once the fad-bubble for acting nerdy pops, the hobby will shed a TON of the new type of players, and to play Nostradamus again, most of them will be the women.

Some will obviously stay, because some chicks are actually cool, and have minimal cooties.

Re #1 -- you just mean most players right? Because frankly . . . most players probably don't own any books at all.

I know plenty of players that have to own every book for any game they play, and often everything for any game that just interests them.

Then a bunch that just own player guide type books, so they can level up their characters without waiting on a shared book.

Then there's a minority that you're lucky if they bring a pencil.

My favorite players are those that use digital dice and use D&D beyond to run their character.  It's like "bud could you spend "tree fifty" for the hobby shop and at least buy some dice?".

In my teens I had a player that gamed with me several times a week for about 5 years. Never brought a pencil, never owned a dice, sure as shit didn't buy a rulebook.

It wasn't lack of money, he got way more allowance than I ever did, the guy was just a total freeloader.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 29, 2023, 12:43:04 AM
It's not 40% women.  I remember a large hobby shop I game at and they had 4 women to about 20 men.  When you go to a large gaming convention you see about 20% women playing.  I would not be surprised if the "women" they got were millenial men who think they are women or they did some very creative cherry picking to pump up those numbers.

Their Gen X number is low because they have been encouraged to play other games by Wotc behavior.

LOL they're wrong because it differs from your experience which involved a single hobby shop and single convention?

Quote from: Mistwell on May 30, 2023, 09:08:44 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 29, 2023, 12:43:04 AM
It's not 40% women.  I remember a large hobby shop I game at and they had 4 women to about 20 men.  When you go to a large gaming convention you see about 20% women playing.  I would not be surprised if the "women" they got were millenial men who think they are women or they did some very creative cherry picking to pump up those numbers.

Their Gen X number is low because they have been encouraged to play other games by Wotc behavior.

LOL they're wrong because it differs from your experience which involved a single hobby shop and single convention?

It's multiple conventions and that was the main hobby shop in my area with the largest audience.  For my local hobby shop that I DM at, we have one guy's girlfriend who plays and the rest are men.  You are looking at D&D themselves, most likely a D&D Beyond survey and that place is a hive of gender confused furries more than normies.  The amount of dudes saying they are chicks are going to make that survey off from a reality perspective.  And no that is a few conventions over the last 5 years man.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 30, 2023, 10:49:05 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 30, 2023, 09:08:44 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 29, 2023, 12:43:04 AM
It's not 40% women.  I remember a large hobby shop I game at and they had 4 women to about 20 men.  When you go to a large gaming convention you see about 20% women playing.  I would not be surprised if the "women" they got were millenial men who think they are women or they did some very creative cherry picking to pump up those numbers.

Their Gen X number is low because they have been encouraged to play other games by Wotc behavior.

LOL they're wrong because it differs from your experience which involved a single hobby shop and single convention?

It's multiple conventions and that was the main hobby shop in my area with the largest audience.  For my local hobby shop that I DM at, we have one guy's girlfriend who plays and the rest are men.  You are looking at D&D themselves, most likely a D&D Beyond survey and that place is a hive of gender confused furries more than normies.  The amount of dudes saying they are chicks are going to make that survey off from a reality perspective.  And no that is a few conventions over the last 5 years man.

They survey these things every single survey they put out, for a decade now. They get MASSIVE amounts of response - tens of thousands of responses from around the nation. And to overcome that you cite your own personal small experience and then declare your own bias must be true?

Multiple people in this thread said their own personal experiences are the opposite of yours, but those experiences don't count because...it wasn't you experiencing it? Or what, are they all just liars?

Man, you're just raising a huge narcissist flag. It's one thing to doubt the data but it's entirely another to do it because "I have not seen that myself so it can't be true."

Quote from: Mistwell on May 30, 2023, 11:27:40 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 30, 2023, 10:49:05 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 30, 2023, 09:08:44 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 29, 2023, 12:43:04 AM
It's not 40% women.  I remember a large hobby shop I game at and they had 4 women to about 20 men.  When you go to a large gaming convention you see about 20% women playing.  I would not be surprised if the "women" they got were millenial men who think they are women or they did some very creative cherry picking to pump up those numbers.

Their Gen X number is low because they have been encouraged to play other games by Wotc behavior.

LOL they're wrong because it differs from your experience which involved a single hobby shop and single convention?

It's multiple conventions and that was the main hobby shop in my area with the largest audience.  For my local hobby shop that I DM at, we have one guy's girlfriend who plays and the rest are men.  You are looking at D&D themselves, most likely a D&D Beyond survey and that place is a hive of gender confused furries more than normies.  The amount of dudes saying they are chicks are going to make that survey off from a reality perspective.  And no that is a few conventions over the last 5 years man.

They survey these things every single survey they put out, for a decade now. They get MASSIVE amounts of response - tens of thousands of responses from around the nation. And to overcome that you cite your own personal small experience and then declare your own bias must be true?

Multiple people in this thread said their own personal experiences are the opposite of yours, but those experiences don't count because...it wasn't you experiencing it? Or what, are they all just liars?

Man, you're just raising a huge narcissist flag. It's one thing to doubt the data but it's entirely another to do it because "I have not seen that myself so it can't be true."

Yeah WotC lies, they lie repeatedly, why would you trust anything from a company conquered by ESG where they have one hell of an incentive to lie about their demographics.  You are trusting WotC, a company that would look you square in the face and tell you Orcs and Drow are black people, Goblins are Jews and Flying Monkey Squirels are Blacks.  WotC doesn't live in reality dude.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 30, 2023, 11:31:34 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 30, 2023, 11:27:40 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 30, 2023, 10:49:05 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 30, 2023, 09:08:44 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on May 29, 2023, 12:43:04 AM
It's not 40% women.  I remember a large hobby shop I game at and they had 4 women to about 20 men.  When you go to a large gaming convention you see about 20% women playing.  I would not be surprised if the "women" they got were millenial men who think they are women or they did some very creative cherry picking to pump up those numbers.

Their Gen X number is low because they have been encouraged to play other games by Wotc behavior.

LOL they're wrong because it differs from your experience which involved a single hobby shop and single convention?

It's multiple conventions and that was the main hobby shop in my area with the largest audience.  For my local hobby shop that I DM at, we have one guy's girlfriend who plays and the rest are men.  You are looking at D&D themselves, most likely a D&D Beyond survey and that place is a hive of gender confused furries more than normies.  The amount of dudes saying they are chicks are going to make that survey off from a reality perspective.  And no that is a few conventions over the last 5 years man.

They survey these things every single survey they put out, for a decade now. They get MASSIVE amounts of response - tens of thousands of responses from around the nation. And to overcome that you cite your own personal small experience and then declare your own bias must be true?

Multiple people in this thread said their own personal experiences are the opposite of yours, but those experiences don't count because...it wasn't you experiencing it? Or what, are they all just liars?

Man, you're just raising a huge narcissist flag. It's one thing to doubt the data but it's entirely another to do it because "I have not seen that myself so it can't be true."

Yeah WotC lies, they lie repeatedly, why would you trust anything from a company conquered by ESG where they have one hell of an incentive to lie about their demographics.  You are trusting WotC, a company that would look you square in the face and tell you Orcs and Drow are black people, Goblins are Jews and Flying Monkey Squirels are Blacks.  WotC doesn't live in reality dude.

Man, you're just raising a huge narcissist flag. It's one thing to doubt the data but it's entirely another to do it because "I have not seen that myself so it can't be true," despite many others in this thread saying their personal experience differs from yours.