So, I want to do some D&D.  Damn, I want to do it.  I got me a hankerin'.

Problem is, my fellow players balk on two concerns:  Rules complexity and length of commitment.

I have this suspicion that those are actually one concern phrased two different ways:  "Shit, Tony, it's been so long since we've done this game system that we'll need to learn it from scratch, and we don't want to commit twenty hours to relearning it, plus forty hours to then playing enough that we feel that the time spent relearning it was justified."

And, yeah ... if that were the only way to do things then I agree, that'd be a high bar for us to hurdle, given our tight schedules.  Time is a precious commodity.

But then in another thread, Psueodephedrine recommended that we should have a thread for brainstorming how D&D runs well in a single night, from soup to nuts, rules-intro through to a satifsying adventure.

And that, my good fellows, is the solution to my problem with my players.  Me want.  Tell me how to make this happen!

First thought:  Is it possible to make pre-gen characters in such detail that every single rule that character will ever need is printed on the character sheet?  Like, it not only has THAC0 but it has the rules for "If you want to slice a frickin' goblin in half, grab a twenty-sided die and roll below 14"?

That'd cut out the rules-explanation and character creation phase, and just let people pore over big laminated cards saying "Oh wow, this guy can slice a frickin' goblin in half on 18 or less!" and "Oh yeah?  Well this guy can frickin electrocute goblins with his mind!"

Would Microlite 20 suit your group's needs?

Quote from: TonyLBSo, I want to do some D&D.  Damn, I want to do it.  I got me a hankerin'.

Problem is, my fellow players balk on two concerns:  Rules complexity and length of commitment.

The first question is:  what version of D&D would you like to run?  I mean, that will help determine at least the mechanical prep that you would have to do.  

In general, as a starting point for advice that would apply to all versions of the game, how about;

1. Pregen characters (already mentioned)
2. A very focussed adventure
3. A solid reason to be adventuring together to avoid a lengthy setup, so no "you meet in a bar" introductions.  Unless, of course, that is your setup...maybe they are the only customers in a tavern when Something Happens™ and they are must work together to get out of the situation.  Could be a funny riff on a standard D&D trope.  Hmmmmm...


TGA

Quote from: The Good AssyrianThe first question is:  what version of D&D would you like to run?  I mean, that will help determine at least the mechanical prep that you would have to do.

I'm flexible.  I'd prefer to get at least a brief taste of this new-fangled "3.5" thing that everybody's having so much fun with ... but if that turns out to be impossible to do in a one-night format then I want the possible thing.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Would Microlite 20 suit your group's needs?

I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't suit my desire for actual D&D, but I could be convinced otherwise.

No offense, Doc, but the question was how to play D&D.  Now TGA asks a good question about version, but Tony has answered that.

So the preference is D&D 3.5, if possible.

And I love TGA's advice - I think it's the way to go. I think they were playing something along these lines at the ENWorld Gameday at Games Plus when I was there with Bill.  Perhaps one of the authors from there has some advice. Maybe later todayt I'll try to track one down from ENWorld and see if they are willing to answer here...

Quote from: TonyLBSo, I want to do some D&D.  Damn, I want to do it.  I got me a hankerin'.

Problem is, my fellow players balk on two concerns:  Rules complexity and length of commitment.

I have this suspicion that those are actually one concern phrased two different ways:  "Shit, Tony, it's been so long since we've done this game system that we'll need to learn it from scratch, and we don't want to commit twenty hours to relearning it, plus forty hours to then playing enough that we feel that the time spent relearning it was justified."

And, yeah ... if that were the only way to do things then I agree, that'd be a high bar for us to hurdle, given our tight schedules.  Time is a precious commodity.

But then in another thread, Psueodephedrine recommended that we should have a thread for brainstorming how D&D runs well in a single night, from soup to nuts, rules-intro through to a satifsying adventure.

And that, my good fellows, is the solution to my problem with my players.  Me want.  Tell me how to make this happen!

First thought:  Is it possible to make pre-gen characters in such detail that every single rule that character will ever need is printed on the character sheet?  Like, it not only has THAC0 but it has the rules for "If you want to slice a frickin' goblin in half, grab a twenty-sided die and roll below 14"?

That'd cut out the rules-explanation and character creation phase, and just let people pore over big laminated cards saying "Oh wow, this guy can slice a frickin' goblin in half on 18 or less!" and "Oh yeah?  Well this guy can frickin electrocute goblins with his mind!"

Tony, there are enough clues in this post to justify my suspicion 8 months that you have no real experience playing any current version of D&D, and have probably never even looked at it in much detail. (Which is no big deal, obviously, my problem was I thought you were misrepresenting yourself, and I am now convinced more than ever that I was right.)

In any case, I've played D&D with 6th graders, and they had no problem picking it up in a single session. Most of the details a player needs are on a typical character sheet. Certain advanced topics (like certain combat tactics.. ) are kind of beyond the scope of just-starting players.

My suggestions:

I personally would avoid pregenerated adventures. Or if you do, maybe just the Howling Horde or Slaughtergarde or something that is meant to be 1st level. But if you want to learn how to be a DM, you need to not use pregenerated anything.

If you are the GM, I would just have people make characters, draw a couple of maps, and go from there. You need 1 town, 1 dungeon (just the map at this point), 1 temple, and 1 shop. You need to create 4 NPCs- a town priest that heals the character, a shopkeeper, a tavernkeeper, and a captain of the guard. If you can build that, you have the rudiments of a campaign. Have this done before you start a  session.

Create two or three or four (or five) encounters. Make them all Encounter Level 1.  

So for example:
2 human warrior skeletons: EL 1 http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm
1 wolf skeleton http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm
2 stirges http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/stirge.htm
3 Dire rats http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direRat.htm
1 Gnoll http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnoll.htm

Place them around the dungeon. Thats basicly how people start.

DO give out experience awards uniformly to everyone at the end of each session.

DONT try to give out individual awards or use some kind of system where people get XP for fulfilling "keys" or "playing their alignment". That way lies disaster. Just give out XP for overcoming or bypassing challenges. Doesn't have to be battles or monsters. A challenge could be getting past a hazardous area or crossing a river safely. or a puzzle. Or whatever else.

If possible, you may want to find someone non-forgie to be a GM. The forgies generally suck as GM's because they have so many preconceived false notions about gaming and GMing.

Quote from: James J SkachNo offense, Doc, but the question was how to play D&D.  Now TGA asks a good question about version, but Tony has answered that.

Fair enough.  I was just looking for his parameters is all, since M20 is basically stripped-down D&D.

DEFINITELY go to an Enworld gameday if you can. You will learn more from other players than anything else.

In any case, managing a 'single session' once you get started is easy. Since there's no forced or preconceived story, you can literally end it via a timer. So if you wanted to play for three hours, you can set a timer for 2 hrs, 45 minutes, and then spend the last 15 minutes wrapping up and awarding XP. You don't have to get to every encounter (or even.. any encounter, although people will probably feel cheated if they get all geared up as adventurers and don't get to 'do' anything.

The most important thing is: award XP at the end of the session and make it uniform.

Basic D&D (or RC or whatever) is simple enough to explain in a minute I think.   How about running a one shot dungeon crawl?  No in depth character making, everyone rolls stats, picks a class, and goes!  Play it like a tactical resource management game, keep combat simple... maybe even run some kind of deathtrap dungeon game where the goal is to get to the end with as few character deaths as possible?  Winning character gets a name!!!

I've always liked the low level dungeon gameplay.  "You are a bunch of level one characters.  All the odds are stacked against you.  What are you going to do to make it through this thing?!"

Tony,
Heed the Prussian Gamer´s Sound Advice:

click here

I recommend "A dark and stormy knight". It solves all your problems, except chargen. But that´s also easily solved:

take the starting kits from the PHB.

You have got a PHB, do you?

Quote from: SettembriniTony,
Heed the Prussian Gamer´s Sound Advice:

click here

I recommend "A dark and stormy knight". It solves all your problems, except chargen. But that´s also easily solved:

take the starting kits from the PHB.

You have got a PHB, haven't you?

I would like to retract my advice not to do anything pregenerated. Dark and Stormy Knight seems like a fine example of an adventure. It's a bit heavy on the boxed text for my tastes, but I think it's pretty good.

However, I have become suspicious of your post once again since I read the Q&A Commentary thread that spawned it. Are you actually interested in running D&D at all? Do you even have a gaming group?

I avoided D&D 3.5 for quite a long time when I got back into RPGs after a ~10 year hiatus, mostly because people kept telling me it was too complex.

It's not. Seriously, it may seem intimidating when people talk about their crazy builds and advanced battlemat tactics, but it flows much better when you're actually playing than many of the earlier editions.

Maw, you're being an incredible, flaming asshole on this thread in more ways than one.

I did appreciate your discussion of D&D prep though.

Quote from: CalithenaI did appreciate your discussion of D&D prep though.

Mind you, it's nothing any half-competent GM of any experience oughtn't to be able to come up with.