https://twitter.com/iammattsanders/status/1382614912522936320 (https://twitter.com/iammattsanders/status/1382614912522936320)
This is absolutely a logical out growth of the current "gaming culture". Discuss, weep, etc.
Quote from: Arkansan on April 15, 2021, 12:24:12 PM
https://twitter.com/iammattsanders/status/1382614912522936320 (https://twitter.com/iammattsanders/status/1382614912522936320)
This is absolutely a logical out growth of the current "gaming culture". Discuss, weep, etc.
Can you quote it? I don't really do Twitter. :-\
Quote from: Matt Sanders @iammattsanders on April 15, 2021, 01:16:30 PM
Remember my local store that was organizing a very bureaucratic sounding D&D council to oversee store games?
Well, their DM application process is up.
That'll be a hard nope from me.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzAItufWEAAEHfg?format=png&name=small)
Definitely a canary in the coal mine. And yes, it's in the vein of the kind of control mechanisms being pushed into the hobby.
Quote from: RandyB on April 15, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
Definitely a canary in the coal mine. And yes, it's in the vein of the kind of control mechanisms being pushed into the hobby.
This is odd to me, because I had to follow a very similar process to become a Storyteller in a Cam/Mind's Eye Theatre -descended game back in the mid-to-late nineties (they were running about five groups across two or three states). I was a player for about a year, then an Assistant Storyteller for several months, then the "Coordination Team" got together to review my work as an assistant, then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
The intent appears to be that this is for a 'shared world', multi-GM campaign. This may take off if WotC decides to take that step with their Organized Play offerings.
Quote from: Arkansan on April 15, 2021, 12:24:12 PM
https://twitter.com/iammattsanders/status/1382614912522936320 (https://twitter.com/iammattsanders/status/1382614912522936320)
This is absolutely a logical out growth of the current "gaming culture". Discuss, weep, etc.
I saw that going around this morning.
"Leveling a store character..." Yeah, no. If by that time you've enjoyed the game enough, you've likely bought the books if not own them already, so why waste your time at the store when playing at home or elsewhere is more liberating?
Everything after that comes across as a heavy-handed attempt to control everything the players and DM do.
Yeah this'll definitely happen everywhere for sure. Gonna gitcher tables next, bois.
Quote from: This Guy on April 15, 2021, 02:21:46 PM
Yeah this'll definitely happen everywhere for sure. Gonna gitcher tables next, bois.
No one said it will happen everywhere, merely that it's an interesting indicator of the cultural trends in table top rpgs. Nice straw man though.
Thanks I'm glad you like it I think the corncob pipe is a real good symbolic indicator of a corncob pipe.
What's it indicate to you about cultural trends in tabletop rpgs that you didn't already know
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: RandyB on April 15, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
Definitely a canary in the coal mine. And yes, it's in the vein of the kind of control mechanisms being pushed into the hobby.
This is odd to me, because I had to follow a very similar process to become a Storyteller in a Cam/Mind's Eye Theatre -descended game back in the mid-to-late nineties (they were running about five groups across two or three states). I was a player for about a year, then an Assistant Storyteller for several months, then the "Coordination Team" got together to review my work as an assistant, then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
And how much were they paying you?
Because for someone to have that kind of control they better be paying me good money.
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: RandyB on April 15, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
Definitely a canary in the coal mine. And yes, it's in the vein of the kind of control mechanisms being pushed into the hobby.
This is odd to me, because I had to follow a very similar process to become a Storyteller in a Cam/Mind's Eye Theatre -descended game back in the mid-to-late nineties (they were running about five groups across two or three states). I was a player for about a year, then an Assistant Storyteller for several months, then the "Coordination Team" got together to review my work as an assistant, then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
White Wolf always was ahead of their time.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2021, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: RandyB on April 15, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
Definitely a canary in the coal mine. And yes, it's in the vein of the kind of control mechanisms being pushed into the hobby.
This is odd to me, because I had to follow a very similar process to become a Storyteller in a Cam/Mind's Eye Theatre -descended game back in the mid-to-late nineties (they were running about five groups across two or three states). I was a player for about a year, then an Assistant Storyteller for several months, then the "Coordination Team" got together to review my work as an assistant, then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
And how much were they paying you?
Because for someone to have that kind of control they better be paying me good money.
If I'm remembering rightly, I had my membership fee (for rental of the venue) waived, and I got a small discount (10% maybe?) at the gaming store associated with the group. But it was more about getting my gaming on out of the house. Also, it was fun to run in a shared universe with other Storytellers.
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
If I'm remembering rightly, I had my membership fee (for rental of the venue) waived, and I got a small discount (10% maybe?) at the gaming store associated with the group. But it was more about getting my gaming on out of the house. Also, it was fun to run in a shared universe with other Storytellers.
Yeah the lure of shared universe and continuity among many groups is fucking crack to a lot of gamers, most of em should really know better it's hard to do.
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2021, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: RandyB on April 15, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
Definitely a canary in the coal mine. And yes, it's in the vein of the kind of control mechanisms being pushed into the hobby.
This is odd to me, because I had to follow a very similar process to become a Storyteller in a Cam/Mind's Eye Theatre -descended game back in the mid-to-late nineties (they were running about five groups across two or three states). I was a player for about a year, then an Assistant Storyteller for several months, then the "Coordination Team" got together to review my work as an assistant, then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
And how much were they paying you?
Because for someone to have that kind of control they better be paying me good money.
If I'm remembering rightly, I had my membership fee (for rental of the venue) waived, and I got a small discount (10% maybe?) at the gaming store associated with the group. But it was more about getting my gaming on out of the house. Also, it was fun to run in a shared universe with other Storytellers.
I rather run MY own universe without other imput than the PCs acctions on it thank you.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 15, 2021, 03:26:58 PM
I rather run MY own universe without other imput than the PCs acctions on it thank you.
What's good about it
Probation periods, bureaucratic submission reviews, being part of the party long enough to be deemed worthy.
I get why the store is doing it but why would anyone want to go through all this to become a member of the NKVD&D?
They're going to offer an opportunity to buy the store's stuff at cost to work for them? Sounds splendid comrade!
Need free space? Use the library: it needs more patronage these days.
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 01:38:50 PM[...]then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
In other words, a gas with the stench of storygames.
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on April 16, 2021, 12:30:17 AM
Probation periods, bureaucratic submission reviews, being part of the party long enough to be deemed worthy.
I get why the store is doing it but why would anyone want to go through all this to become a member of the NKVD&D?
They're going to offer an opportunity to buy the store's stuff at cost to work for them? Sounds splendid comrade!
Need free space? Use the library: it needs more patronage these days.
Hell, there's a nearby brewpub in my neck of the woods with plenty of space; pretty certain they wouldn't mind several folks getting together for a beer and a few hours of dice rolling.
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on April 16, 2021, 12:30:17 AM
Need free space? Use the library: it needs more patronage these days.
Many libraries already run games, either staff GMed, or volunteer. If you want to extend game mastering beyond your own home, it's a great way to spread the hobby.
even better if you are less SJW inclined. You have the opportunity to counter some of the indoctrination going on.
Didn't see any requirement for Kung-flu vaccine, but I assume that's coming soon enough.
Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 16, 2021, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on April 16, 2021, 12:30:17 AM
Need free space? Use the library: it needs more patronage these days.
Many libraries already run games, either staff GMed, or volunteer. If you want to extend game mastering beyond your own home, it's a great way to spread the hobby.
even better if you are less SJW inclined. You have the opportunity to counter some of the indoctrination going on.
Reject bad and wrong SJW indoctrination, embrace good and right conservative indoctrination. Always Be Indoctrinatin
This seems to be for a shared world, so I think it is reasonable to ask for some conformity from the DMs. However it way to much bureaucracy, they are treating it like it is a job interview. It is a game people it is supposed to be fun.
Quote from: Brad on April 16, 2021, 09:51:45 AM
Didn't see any requirement for Kung-flu vaccine, but I assume that's coming soon enough.
If WOTC makes that mandatory, this whole experiment will die overnight. Probably for the best though, no matter how it happens.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 16, 2021, 12:50:00 AM
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 15, 2021, 01:38:50 PM[...]then I was allowed to run my own plot/campaign as a full Storyteller. If this kind of control by a group over who runs their games is a canary in the coal mine, the mine has always been full of gas.
In other words, a gas with the stench of storygames.
If you're confusing storygames and the Storyteller system (especially the one from c. 1998), I reserve the right to point and laugh.
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 16, 2021, 05:26:06 PMyou're confusing storygames and the Storyteller system
The father of a bastard son is still the father.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 16, 2021, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: ScytheSong on April 16, 2021, 05:26:06 PMyou're confusing storygames and the Storyteller system
The father of a bastard son is still the father.
That thing Edwards hated and made storygames in reaction to is def a father, which is why D&D is the worst bastard of all.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 16, 2021, 10:05:37 PM
The father of a bastard son is still the father.
More like claiming that NATO stinks of Josef Stalin.
Quote from: This Guy on April 16, 2021, 10:09:49 PMThat thing Edwards hated and made storygames in reaction to is def a father, which is why D&D is the worst bastard of all.
Edwards hated all games. But his ideas of "story" came from Vampire et al. He just thought they didn't do it properly.
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/archive/index.php?topic=18707.0
A guy mentions Vampire, and Edwards says,
Quote from: Ron EdwardsConsider that there's a reason I and most other people call an adult having sex with a, say, twelve-year-old, to be abusive. Never mind if it's, technically speaking, consensual. It's still abuse. Why? Because the younger person's mind is currently developing - these experiences are going to be formative in ways that experiences ten years later will not be. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the characteristic behaviors of someone with this history, but I am very familiar with them - and they are not constructive or happiness-oriented behaviors at all. The person's mind has been damaged while it was forming, and it takes a hell of a lot of re-orientation even for functional repairs (which is not the same as undoing the damage).
If someone wants to take issue with my use of the term "brain" when I'm talking about the "mind," I just shrug. As I see it, the mind is the physiological outcome of a working brain. Mess around with the input as the brain/mind forms, and you short-circuit it, messing up steps which themselves would have been the foundation of further steps. You could be talking about an experience such as I mention above, or you could be talking about sticking a needle into someone's head and wiggling it around. Brain, mind, damage. I don't distinguish.
All that is the foundation for my point: that the routine human capacity for understanding, enjoying, and creating stories is damaged in this fashion by repeated "storytelling role-playing" as promulgated through many role-playing games of a specific type.
Thus, Ron Edwards' experiences of, or perception of other people's experiences of trying to create "story" through the Storyteller system were the inspiration for his "storygame" retardation.
Thus: White Wolf is the father of the bastard son, storygames.
And for bonus points:
Quote from: Ron Edwardsthe Sorcerer rules work, but the gamer brain (well, the "story-oriented" variety) does not.
"My rules r great u r teh dumb lolz"
meh...I own the store I DM in.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 18, 2021, 04:22:26 PM
meh...I own the store I DM in.
Well, that's one way to solve the problem.
I have two local game stores and they have avoided this for the moment. Rest assured if the woke ever get their way they will go this route or worse.
Weird. I wouldn't run a game there. I suppose that's kinda what they're after: only attracting the kind of DM that would agree to such things. Whatever.
None of these rules seem, in themselves, bad. The problem is the people who are in WotC & its community organization. Unfortunately no amount of rules can actually fix problems that arise from broken, petty people.
Shit like this is why I use Discord to game.
Fuck this noise.
it's bad enough that fucking GW has commissars at every official 40k event to make sure you only use their overpriced, limited availability limited options miniatures and terrain, and that your army isn't offensive to anyone (No slannesh daemons with big dicks or naked tit modelend on them for example)
I hope this dies a quick death.
I already play MMOs. Why would I want this?
In itself, it's laughable because the real appeal is to do this at home with your friends. Playing in stores at and cons? Why? Hell--as mentioned upthread--I don't even need to be in the same room anymore thanks to VOIP clients like Discord and VTTs like Tabletop Simulator.
Until I see something else that would serve to drive the masses into WOTC's Organized Gulag, I'm not going to freak out over this. I'm going to see it as incompetent overreach.
Doesn't pick-up DnD/RPGing (as in, not just you and your m8s) already have a problem with the GM to Player ratio? Wouldn't stuff like that just exacerbate this, or is there some long-term plan to push Solo Play/Choose-Your-Own-Adventure coming up?
Quote from: Jaeger on April 15, 2021, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: Matt Sanders @iammattsanders on April 15, 2021, 01:16:30 PM
Remember my local store that was organizing a very bureaucratic sounding D&D council to oversee store games?
Well, their DM application process is up.
That'll be a hard nope from me.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzAItufWEAAEHfg?format=png&name=small)
Their #Twitter Bio:
Quotehttp://sealedlibrary.itch.io Mostly indie RPGs. Everything is politics. Also respecting people. he/him.
So make no mistake, these people would implement equivalent policies if
they were in charge.
It also doesn't matter if the group is not directly run by the store, they can still come in and gatekeep, which is exactly what happened at my LGS. Since the #Meetup was run by 'the club' you couldn't reserve a table or find a game without going through them, as the owner did not care enough to interfere.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 18, 2021, 04:22:26 PM
meh...I own the store I DM in.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on May 13, 2021, 03:49:23 AM
So make no mistake, these people would implement equivalent policies if they were in charge.
It also doesn't matter if the group is not directly run by the store, they can still come in and gatekeep, which is exactly what happened at my LGS. Since the #Meetup was run by 'the club' you couldn't reserve a table or find a game without going through them, as the owner did not care enough to interfere.
Hmmm...so how would it work if the owner said GTFO? Would they start some sort of Twitter campaign to get his store shutdown? The issue here is these fucks have infiltrated pretty much every aspect of modern culture under the guise of being "oppressed," but do everything they can to oust anyone they remotely disagree with as soon as they have the means available. If they opened their own gaming store and wouldn't let me in, I wouldn't give a fuck; I wouldn't want to play with them, anyway. But if *I* had a gaming store and didn't want them to play there, well, now the whining and frivolous lawsuits begin.
Fuck those retards.
Quote from: Brad on May 13, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: David Johansen on April 18, 2021, 04:22:26 PM
meh...I own the store I DM in.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on May 13, 2021, 03:49:23 AM
So make no mistake, these people would implement equivalent policies if they were in charge.
It also doesn't matter if the group is not directly run by the store, they can still come in and gatekeep, which is exactly what happened at my LGS. Since the #Meetup was run by 'the club' you couldn't reserve a table or find a game without going through them, as the owner did not care enough to interfere.
Hmmm...so how would it work if the owner said GTFO? Would they start some sort of Twitter campaign to get his store shutdown? The issue here is these fucks have infiltrated pretty much every aspect of modern culture under the guise of being "oppressed," but do everything they can to oust anyone they remotely disagree with as soon as they have the means available. If they opened their own gaming store and wouldn't let me in, I wouldn't give a fuck; I wouldn't want to play with them, anyway. But if *I* had a gaming store and didn't want them to play there, well, now the whining and frivolous lawsuits begin.
Fuck those retards.
Trying to gatekeep against the wishes of a store owner strikes me as a great way to be told 'leave the premises or be charged with trespassing'.
Most gaming stores can't afford to run off customers for 'wrongthink'.