I'm joining a D&D game in the middle of a campaign, and I need to make a character. I've been told not to worry about "what the group needs", so I have a lot of freedom, but still, I'm reluctant to simply overlap the function of another character exactly. Currently the group consists of:
Dwarf Paladin 4/Fighter 2 (tank in some kind of magical full plate)
Elf Rogue 4/Fighter 2 (utility rogue, a bit combat focused) /w Bard cohort
Ranger 6 (very archery focused)
Sorcerer 6 (evoker-style - a fireball-machine)
Cleric 6 (npc)
If I make a cleric, the npc will probably go away at some convenient time, but I'm not particularly tempted of playing the healbot, so that option is probably out.
I'm tempted to either do some kind of Barbarian multiclass, a druid, or a wizard.
The game is very tactical in style - there is (virtually) no first-person roleplaying, no character-driven plots (I have seen no other character motivations than "do good" and "get rich" so far), so this is an exercise in maximising the utility of a lvl 5 character (I'm starting at half the xp of the other characters which translates into one level behind the rest).
So...do you have any nasty combos? Any good ideas for how I can make myself useful to this group?
It's point-buy, 28 points, everything not in the standard books need to be checked with the GM beforehand.
You could go a Warmage make the Sorcerer feel totally redundant. :heh:
What's "Standard Books" is it just the PHB & DMG?
Standard books are are table are PHB, DMG, Complete X books, with certain classes banned (Warmage, for example).
Personally I'ld be inclined to go a Cleric and ask the DM to phased out the NPC cleric. If you are worried about being a healbot, go neutral, and channel negative energy, and only memorize a small number of Cures or Vigor spells. Although I find not having to memorize cure spells means that I actually have more slots free for none healing magic. If you do go for negative energy you end up with less choices since you have to memorize the few Cures you do take. This could also be a problem if you decide to go a Druid, especially if the GM feels he can get rid of the NPC cleric now he has a PC that can do divine healing.
I play a Dwarven Cleric CN cleric (postive energy), who very rarely casts Cures in combat as he is too busy with Enlarge Person (Domain spell) and swinging his Large Greataxe at everything in his 10ft reach. Afterwards I drop a few cures, where needed.
My theory is if I kill something before it damages us then I'll need to do less healing afterwards.
A Barbarian/Druid might be an interesting mix.
Standard here is just PHb and DMG. I think that pretty much anything released by WotC would have a good chance of getting acceptance, but I don't own much besides those two anyway.
I've always wanted to play a diviner. But, played well, they can be real pains for the DM...
Bah, make them keep the npc medic and play a wizard.
Quote from: Name LipsI've always wanted to play a diviner. But, played well, they can be real pains for the DM...
Actually, that's what I played most recently, in Cyberzombie's game. A paladin/diviner... ;)
It worked well there. It could be useful in this group as well, I suppose.
Quote from: Name LipsI've always wanted to play a diviner. But, played well, they can be real pains for the DM...
Knowledge = power.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheActually, that's what I played most recently, in Cyberzombie's game. A paladin/diviner... ;)
It worked well there. It could be useful in this group as well, I suppose.
Heh. She would blow your current parties fucking mind. Especially when she shows up with the parasol. :heh:
With just the PHB, your choices are pretty limited. See if your DM has and will let you use Unearthed Arcana. If so, play a human. Take your first level as rogue and pick the option where you trade the sneak attack progression for the fighter bonus feat progression. 5th level -- hmm. I'd take 3 levels of rogue, to knock your skill points up, and 2 levels of fighter. You'd get fighter bonus feats for every level except your 3rd rogue level, so you'll have 6 feats in all. See if you can convince your DM to trade medium and heavy armour proficiencies for Dodge.
Dump your feats into being a cuisinart (get the whole tree up to whirlwind attack; I think you'll have enough feats). Get a high-ish Dex and max out your Tumble skill. When you get another feat, get Combat Reflexes; after that, two-weapon fighting and bastard sword proficiency are always fun.
If you go the barbarian/druid route, do a half-orc. The Int and Cha penalties are almost meaningless to the druid (you're not going to be communing with the wittle forest critters). Once you have wildshape, you will also be a cuisinart -- just a different type of one. :)
Quote from: CyberzombieHeh. She would blow your current parties fucking mind. Especially when she shows up with the parasol. :heh:
It really would, I'd expect. My early impression is that they don't see a lot of characters like the posh paladin/diviner school mistress with a strong preference for pastel colours and a cohort whose main function was to set up the pavilion when the party made camp...
QuoteWith just the PHB, your choices are pretty limited. See if your DM has and will let you use Unearthed Arcana. If so, play a human. Take your first level as rogue and pick the option where you trade the sneak attack progression for the fighter bonus feat progression. 5th level -- hmm. I'd take 3 levels of rogue, to knock your skill points up, and 2 levels of fighter. You'd get fighter bonus feats for every level except your 3rd rogue level, so you'll have 6 feats in all. See if you can convince your DM to trade medium and heavy armour proficiencies for Dodge.
Dump your feats into being a cuisinart (get the whole tree up to whirlwind attack; I think you'll have enough feats). Get a high-ish Dex and max out your Tumble skill. When you get another feat, get Combat Reflexes; after that, two-weapon fighting and bastard sword proficiency are always fun.
If you go the barbarian/druid route, do a half-orc. The Int and Cha penalties are almost meaningless to the druid (you're not going to be communing with the wittle forest critters). Once you have wildshape, you will also be a cuisinart -- just a different type of one. :)
Hm. I don't have Unearthed Arcana. I'll ask the GM about using it. If he's okay with it, I'll go look it up at the FLGS.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheIt really would, I'd expect. My early impression is that they don't see a lot of characters like the posh paladin/diviner school mistress with a strong preference for pastel colours and a cohort whose main function was to set up the pavilion when the party made camp...
That could be a lot of fun with such a tactical-oriented group. You might give 'em fits. :heh:
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheHm. I don't have Unearthed Arcana. I'll ask the GM about using it. If he's okay with it, I'll go look it up at the FLGS.
If you're only going to own one 3.5 book outside the Core, UA is it. It has some of the *best* crunch they've put out. (Complete Arcane is also good, but more specialized.) The variant base classes and the racial paragon classes make it a book worth buying right there.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheIt really would, I'd expect. My early impression is that they don't see a lot of characters like the posh paladin/diviner school mistress with a strong preference for pastel colours and a cohort whose main function was to set up the pavilion when the party made camp...
That sounds like a BADASS character! I might steal that!
Quote from: Name LipsThat sounds like a BADASS character! I might steal that!
Feel free. :)
If you don't mind a lot of paperwork, a summoner druid could prove very interesting. The Summon Nature's Ally spells have a lot of useful choices at low levels (like Wolverines at II, they just won't go down, and the Dire Wolf at III, which can hit and trip almost anything you'll be fighting.) Your minions won't be putting out the best damage, but they can take up space, and the ones with automatic trips or improved grapple can simply remove an opponent from the fight.
The only problem is that since you'll be playing at least two characters during battle, your turns will take much longer, and there's a lot more to juggle tactically. Also, the Summon XX spells take a while to get off, so you might miss the battle depending on how much damage your group puts out.
And of course who doesn't want to be a master of beasts?
I think I'll pass on the summoning, thanks. :)
For the first session I played the cleric npc, which was specialized in summoning, and it was a pain even at that low level.
And I've been told that Unearthed Arcana is a no-go, but the Complete books are tentatively ok, though the GM still wants to check any class, feat or spell used from them.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheAnd I've been told that Unearthed Arcana is a no-go, but the Complete books are tentatively ok, though the GM still wants to check any class, feat or spell used from them.
Tell your DM that he SUCKS. UA is better balanced than most of the stuff in the splat books. :p
Well, warlocks in Complete Arcane are fun -- you get very few powers, but you get to use them *all the time*. Being able to fly and use eldritch blast every round rocks. Just make sure that if you do that, you get pre-approval for the class as a whole, including all powers. It would suck to not have access to all their variety of powers.
Hmm. I'm not sure exactly where to steer you with the splatbooks. It kind of depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a wizard, for example, you'll need Complete Divine and the divine munchkin, er, oracle class. (Full wizard spell progression, d6 HD, *and* nifty powers? Sign me up!) Doesn't matter what kind of wizard you are -- if you're an evoker, you're still going to want the divine oracle. :)
Any type of character really appealing to you? I could help you totally munchkin just about anything out, but I'd need more clues. :)
I've narrowed it down to three possibilities, I think. Either a rogue, as dissimilar to the duelist class as I can get, since I think the other rogue in the group is heading that way. A barbarian type, multiclassed as needed with fighter, or ranger. Or a specialist wizard, I'm open to pretty much any school, though I'm probably throwing out evokation (since that's our sorcerer's forte anyway).
Quote from: CyberzombieTell your DM that he SUCKS. UA is better balanced than most of the stuff in the splat books. :p
I think it's mostly about consistency. The others didn't have UA available when they made their characters, so he doesn't think I should either. Or something like that. I could possibly argue a case for any specific rule in UA, but it would be a bit of a battle I'm not sure I want to bother with.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheEither a rogue, as dissimilar to the duelist class as I can get, since I think the other rogue in the group is heading that way.
Hmm. Well, I don't know if a social rogue will be the way to go -- doesn't sound like your group has much social interaction. I'll have to think about this one.
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheA barbarian type, multiclassed as needed with fighter, or ranger.
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder. Brute strength is the obvious way to munchkin a barbarian.
Or you could be sneaky and do a halfling barbarian/rogue. A halfling greataxe does 1d10 damage. Couple rage and sneak attack and you've got a pretty deadly little bastard. :D
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheOr a specialist wizard, I'm open to pretty much any school, though I'm probably throwing out evokation (since that's our sorcerer's forte anyway).
Well, you've also rejected conjuration -- not that they're worth playing without the UA mods. Illusion and enchantment are usually too unreliable. Necromancy is fun, but necromancers are weak compared to clerics.
That leaves abjuration, divination, and transmutation. Abjuration is powerful, but tends to move you into a support role. Divination you already know about. Transmutation is a good all-around choice -- though with the dumbassed duration nerfing of 3.5, some of the best spells have been seriously weakened.
Oh, be sure to check out the Arcane Disciple feat in Complete Divine if you go this route. You pick a god and then you get to add one of their domains to your spell list. Divination is a good one if you go the diviner route -- you get spells like augury and commune, which are really useful for an arcane diviner. And it even gives you a "valid" excuse to go into divine oracle. :heh:
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheI think it's mostly about consistency. The others didn't have UA available when they made their characters, so he doesn't think I should either. Or something like that. I could possibly argue a case for any specific rule in UA, but it would be a bit of a battle I'm not sure I want to bother with.
Well, that would be okay, I guess. It's at least not *as* lame. :)
How are the new base classes in Complete Adventurer? I see I could play a NINJA!!! :ninja:
Unpredictable or not, make an enchantment spec. wizard. Ya might drop the ball sometimes, but when ya catch it, serious fun ensues. Just do everything ya can to max your enchantment save dcs and keep a defensive and offensive spell handy just in case :) Improved invis is reall handy for an enchanter too ;)
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheHow are the new base classes in Complete Adventurer? I see I could play a NINJA!!! :ninja:
Ninjas seem okay, though I haven't played 'em or even really analyzed 'em. From what I remember, they look like a great class for a halfling -- the abilities come together in wonderful munchkiny synergy. :D
I have had players in my group try out the scout and ninja classes. The scout is definitely pulling his own weight and then some, while the ninja seems kinda weak in comparison to the rogue. The ninja's Sudden Strike is a lot more limited than the rogue's Sneak Attack (it doesn't work while flanking), though they do have their "go invisible" ability to compensate. However, going invisible can only be used a handful of times per day. IIRC, they also get fewer skill points.
I've always wanted to try a support character specializing in buff spells. Probably a cleric would be the fun way to go with this, since your combat abilities won't suck. That way, the NPC healer wouldn't be redundant.
-O
Quote from: DackeI have had players in my group try out the scout and ninja classes. The scout is definitely pulling his own weight and then some, while the ninja seems kinda weak in comparison to the rogue. The ninja's Sudden Strike is a lot more limited than the rogue's Sneak Attack (it doesn't work while flanking), though they do have their "go invisible" ability to compensate. However, going invisible can only be used a handful of times per day. IIRC, they also get fewer skill points.
What abilities of the scout has made it particularly useful?
The Skirmish ability has been pretty useful (my game is kinda combat-heavy). Sure, it doesn't do the massive damage that sneak attack does, but on the other hand it's totally under the control of the player - you move, you get bonus damage. The character in question has also taken quite a few archery feats, which lets him snipe from the sidelines while the other characters tie the opponents up in melee, and his speed is exceptional (he took a level of barbarian as well, in order to get the +10 movement bonus - total base speed 50).
He also has quite a few skills that prove useful a lot, as befits an 8 skill point class.
A bit of an update: In the end, I decided to make a diviner, with a strong secondary emphasis on enchantment and evocation. The character survived for a whole three hours before an invisible monk/assassin stabbed him dead.
Now, that campaign is going to be put on ice for a bit (until the end of summer, probably), in order to get back to the "main campaign", where I've been told to make a lvl 9 character. It looks like another wizard might be what the group needs, but I've been told that they're fine with everything, though the cleric presence is already strong.
The party as far as I understand it:
Dwarven Defender/Fighter/Ranger
Cleric
Cleric/Paladin/Fighter? with Diviner Cohort
Rogue/Thief-acrobat
The healing role looks covered. From what I understand the group has gone through many character deaths, so being the backup-anything is really a viable choice, especially since I'm starting at one level lower than everybody else.
Maybe simply go fighter-rogue? Straight ranger? Barbarian-fighter-rogue? A warmage perhaps?
Sorry for the inane babbling, but if you don't mind acting as the voices in my head, I would appreciate the input.
And if it's any help, I'm getting temple of elemental evil vibes from the game description. I expect dungeons...
Well, you could always go the evoker/spellsword route for this one. By 9th level, you could have quite a bit of munchkinizing under your belt, even without access to Unearthed Arcana. You could have pretty darn good spellcasting abilities and a decent defense by that level.
Of your other choices, fighter/rogue sounds the best, especially if dungeons are involved. Evasion is your friend. :)