I decided to put this here. Since I know Pundit had a hand in the development of the product.
Aside from the core 3 rulebooks. What are the most important supplements for the game system?
I ask this because: I'm constructing a shopping list of stuff to get. And so far my list isn't very big.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952951I decided to put this here. Since I know Pundit had a hand in the development of the product.
Aside from the core 3 rulebooks. What are the most important supplements for the game system?
I ask this because: I'm constructing a shopping list of stuff to get. And so far my list isn't very big.
There aren't any. Although from what people are saying you can get a lot of value out of Adventure in Middle Earth
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;952951I decided to put this here. Since I know Pundit had a hand in the development of the product.
Aside from the core 3 rulebooks. What are the most important supplements for the game system?
I ask this because: I'm constructing a shopping list of stuff to get. And so far my list isn't very big.
Supplements? There are no official supplements aside from Volo Guide to Monsters. There is however a series of Unearthed Arcana article presenting options. There are also extensive 3rd party material under the OGL and the DM's Guide.
I for one have the Halfling Shadow (http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%205e%20Halfling%20Shadow.pdf) and the Berserker (http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%205e%20Berserker.pdf) avaliable for free download.
The Dungeon Master's Screen if you're into that sort of thing, and Volo's Guide to Monsters which is basically a second Monster Manual with new PC races as well.
There are two official supplements outside of the campaign books and starter box.
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is 2/3rds a setting guide for the Sword Coast and 1/3 a rules supplement for Forgotten Realms specific mechanics. Its a pretty good book in respect of both.
Volo's Guide to Monsters is 1/3 an ecology guide, 1/3 monster races for PCs and 1/3 a monster manual. Again its pretty good on all three fronts.
There is also a slim Elemental Evil Adventurer's Guide incorporating some of elemental options that was partially reprinted in the Princes of the Apocalypse campaign.
Outside of WotC, I would recommend Adventures in Middle Earth for an alternative setting for D&D5e.
I decided on D&D 5th Edition instead of taking the plunge with Pathfinder.
Pathfinder being way too much for me to keep up with.
Quote from: HorusArisen;952956There aren't any. Although from what people are saying you can get a lot of value out of Adventure in Middle Earth
Volos Guide. New monsters. New PC races.
and to a VERY lesser degree Adventurers Guide to the Sword Coast, its got some new backgrounds and class paths.
Thats it. You might or might not find any of the UA articles of use.
I would emphasise that you will have heaps of material in the three corebooks alone. So you may not need any supplements to start with.
There also looks to be Unearth Arcana, a big book of mechanical options, due at the end of this year but it is not yet confirmed.
For myself, I wouldn't buy anything beyond the core, because I'm not a fan of additional widgets. That's if I were actually buying the system. I can make do with their SRD and basic packets at this point, and feel I have what I need.
But, based on the people at my table who play 5E on other nights, they own the core, plus Sword Coast. I do not know if they sprung for Volo's. One of them is a DM, so I'm guessing he probably did.
Volo's is mildly useful, but the three core books are plenty IME.
I like Volo's but it is pretty optional unless you want monster races, adventure seeds and more monsters. Loads of UA stuff in their site, revised ranger being the most important. I also like the 5e Mystic.
Quote from: S'mon;953008Volo's is mildly useful, but the three core books are plenty IME.
Mostly for the monsters. But half the book is inane drivel on what the writers think these monster races should be now which at times contradicts whats been allready established. Really unimpressed.
Quote from: Voros;953016I like Volo's but it is pretty optional unless you want monster races, adventure seeds and more monsters. Loads of UA stuff in their site, revised ranger being the most important. I also like the 5e Mystic.
I'm going to expand on that. The designers seem to be making sure that the game continues to play much the same whether you have anything beyond the core material or not. There's little-to-nothing you can't make just from the core books*, especially if you're willing to re-fluff stuff. The latest attempt at the 5e Mystic (the psionics class) is pretty good (but again, you can also just refluff a sorcerer or warlock or something), as is the updated ranger (the original isn't horrible, just a little weak and a little boring). Both are free (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles-tags/unearthed-arcana). They are considered still in playtesting, so "unofficial" for whatever that's worth.
*some of the cantrips in Sword Coast Adventures makes it more viable to do certain warrior/other-character-concept hybrids that otherwise couldn't keep up.
Quote from: Omega;953034Mostly for the monsters. But half the book is inane drivel on what the writers think these monster races should be now which at times contradicts whats been allready established. Really unimpressed.
I dislike moving gnolls full on into demon-worshipping super-evil guys. It looks like they thought that they and lizardfolk couldn't both occupy the "ultimate survivalist/utilitarian man-eater" niche (even though they have for decades). Also dislike how they did the whole "reptilians are so alien they are emotionless" thing. The book is well done, however, even if they made decisions I would not have made.
Well as I have run around the net. Looking for info and contents of the three core books. I have managed to find quite a bit of the info I needed to make an informed purchase decision.
It has been helpful.
I'll be getting the core three books, the DM's Screen, and Volo's.
I haven't yet been convinced on Sword Coast, I need more research there before I can make an informed decision.
Unless you intend to play in FR I wouldn't say Sword Coast is essential.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953162Well as I have run around the net. Looking for info and contents of the three core books. I have managed to find quite a bit of the info I needed to make an informed purchase decision.
It has been helpful.
I'll be getting the core three books, the DM's Screen, and Volo's.
I haven't yet been convinced on Sword Coast, I need more research there before I can make an informed decision.
If you're playing specifically in that area of FR it's a resource .
Otherwise your looking at an arcane domain, Storm sorcerer path and some spells from memory .
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953162Well as I have run around the net. Looking for info and contents of the three core books. I have managed to find quite a bit of the info I needed to make an informed purchase decision.
It has been helpful.
I'll be getting the core three books, the DM's Screen, and Volo's.
I haven't yet been convinced on Sword Coast, I need more research there before I can make an informed decision.
If you have any older FR background books then you can likely pass.
The book is written as a series of travelogues by various adventurers and to me, someone who knows very little of FR. I came away with very little impression of the setting still. Stuffs changed but theres so much prose and so little data. You might find the new paths and backgrounds interesting. Or not.
I can probably do a quick rundown. Still working on a full review. But its low on the to-do list.
One other thing to possibly pick up though is the free Elemental Evil Players guide PDF WOTC released free instead of as a sourcebook. New races and such mostly.
Quote from: Omega;953272One other thing to possibly pick up though is the free Elemental Evil Players guide PDF WOTC released free instead of as a sourcebook. New races and such mostly.
I'm greatful to know it was a free download. Because I couldn't find it when I looked through available books to buy.
I downloaded it immediately. It seems to have some nice stuff in it.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953284I'm greatful to know it was a free download. Because I couldn't find it when I looked through available books to buy.
I downloaded it immediately. It seems to have some nice stuff in it.
Most of it is printed in Princes of the Apocalypse campaign book.
Adventures in Middle Earth: Player's Guide is probably just as useful as Volo's Guide, if not more so, but mainly if you're interested in a low-magic setting. It's got a bunch of new feats (virtues), and some neat subsystems and heirlooms. It is 3rd party, but the production is top notch.
The codebooks, particularly the Player's Handbook, are packed full of material and character options that you never need to own another book. That said, the Mastermind and Swashbucker Archetypes for the Rogue Class are found in the Sword Coast book, and for me they are pretty common archetypes in fantasy literature and I wish they had been in the core.
I added Sword Coast to my list of stuff to buy.
Just be prepared for a let down. Or at least finding 75% of the book useless. Most of the maps sure are.
Though it was interesting to learn that elves (just high elves?) at age 150 go blind and instinctively leave the world for some hidden land.
Quote from: Omega;953400Just be prepared for a let down. Or at least finding 75% of the book useless. Most of the maps sure are.
I just borrowed a copy, took photos of the four or so pages that were actually useful for my campaign and transcribed them over a lunch break.
Quote from: Omega;953400Though it was interesting to learn that elves (just high elves?) at age 150 go blind and instinctively leave the world for some hidden land.
Wait, what!?
Quote from: Omega;953400Though it was interesting to learn that elves (just high elves?) at age 150 go blind and instinctively leave the world for some hidden land.
My character concept: guy who mugs blind elves.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;953403My character concept: guy who mugs blind elves.
After 150 years they should have lots of loot!
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;953402Wait, what!?
Just pulled out the book and re-read the entry.
All elf races. Not sure if all elves have it happen though. When they reach a certain age their eyes change and they can only see Evermeet and are drawn to it.
Quote from: Omega;953414Just pulled out the book and re-read the entry.
All elf races. Not sure if all elves have it happen though. When they reach a certain age their eyes change and they can only see Evermeet and are drawn to it.
Jesus Wept that's idiotic.
Actually, you should consider Tome of Beasts.
5e was, well, not exactly playtested thoroughly (admittedly, that would be a huge task), and there are lots of little issues; the Monster Manual, while functional, is more like a manual of monsters written for an older set of rules, unaware how things have changed. Tome of Beasts has monsters made well after the main 5e rules came out, so it has lots of curveballs to toss at adventurers, with attacks that aren't laughable nearly so oten.
Quote from: Omega;953400Just be prepared for a let down. Or at least finding 75% of the book useless. Most of the maps sure are.
Though it was interesting to learn that elves (just high elves?) at age 150 go blind and instinctively leave the world for some hidden land.
Every time I think the Forgotten Realms can't be a dumber setting, I get proven to be an unimaginative idiot.
I added Tomb Of Beasts to my shopping cart.
I may not get it next month with the rest of my D&D 5th Edition stuff. But I will get it eventually.
I love collecting monster books.
Tome of Beasts is solid. There are a lot of good boss monsters in there. They also hired a few of the artists who worked on 5e, so it keeps a look consistent with the 1st-party stuff.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953450I added Tomb Of Beasts to my shopping cart.
I may not get it next month with the rest of my D&D 5th Edition stuff. But I will get it eventually.
I love collecting monster books.
Note that it was originally created for 3e not 5e. They seem to have done at least an ok job of converting. But after getting suckered by their other supposedly 5e book Im really leery of trusting them now. At the very least some of the monsters mat not be balanced for 5e as they appear to all be conversions.
If that isnt a problem then its probably a good book as its got
alot of new monsters.
Quote from: Omega;953400Just be prepared for a let down. Or at least finding 75% of the book useless. Most of the maps sure are.
Though it was interesting to learn that elves (just high elves?) at age 150 go blind and instinctively leave the world for some hidden land.
Quote from: Omega;953414Just pulled out the book and re-read the entry.
All elf races. Not sure if all elves have it happen though. When they reach a certain age their eyes change and they can only see Evermeet and are drawn to it.
Quote from: CRKrueger;953421Jesus Wept that's idiotic.
The specific age has changed, and it never said anything about going blind, but that whole drawn to leave [strike]Middle Earth [/strike] Faerûn is not new. It was actually in the non-FR description of elves in 2e AD&D. Elves "lived" 350+4d100 years according to the age chart, but actually could live to 1,200 years or so. However, "Elves often live to be over 1,200 years old, although long before this time they feel compelled to depart the realms of men and mortals. Where they go is uncertain, but it is an undeniable urge of their race." In FR they just decided it was Evermeet. This just seems like another refluffing of the same stuff. It's stupid, but it's not new.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953450I love collecting . . . .
Obsessively so.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;953455The specific age has changed, and it never said anything about going blind, but that whole drawn to leave [strike]Middle Earth [/strike] Faerûn is not new. It was actually in the non-FR description of elves in 2e AD&D. Elves "lived" 350+4d100 years according to the age chart, but actually could live to 1,200 years or so. However, "Elves often live to be over 1,200 years old, although long before this time they feel compelled to depart the realms of men and mortals. Where they go is uncertain, but it is an undeniable urge of their race." In FR they just decided it was Evermeet. This just seems like another refluffing of the same stuff. It's stupid, but it's not new.
Everyone just completely ignored that horseshit back then in the rulebook. In FR, there were old elves all over the place though, like Evereska for one example.
The difference between "an urge" to go to Evermeet and "go blind, being capable of seeing only Evermeet" is like the difference between someone having an urge to have children and forming your own cult so you can have 35 wives to knock up.
Different enough to not be the same thing at all.
Quote from: Omega;953452Note that it was originally created for 3e not 5e. They seem to have done at least an ok job of converting. But after getting suckered by their other supposedly 5e book Im really leery of trusting them now. At the very least some of the monsters mat not be balanced for 5e as they appear to all be conversions.
If that isnt a problem then its probably a good book as its got alot of new monsters.
I appreciate the heads up.
My original goal was: To focus on just the D&D stuff initially by Wizards. And only dabble outside of it, if something truly caught my eye.
Monster books are one of the areas that I feel pretty safe being pretty experimental with.
But I have also heard about 5th Edition's pretty simple monster creation system. Which makes me pretty happy.
Everything I have heard about 5th Edition has been positive. i'm really looking forward to getting it.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;953455The specific age has changed, and it never said anything about going blind, but that whole drawn to leave [strike]Middle Earth [/strike] Faerûn is not new.
As noted. I know allmost nothing of FR so its news to me. :o
But it specifically mentions blindness.
"The arcs can blind the elf to this world and vanish when they enter the next, allowing sight of the elven heaven."
"I felt bad taking advantage of the elfs blindness and forcing him to leave behind some baggage."
Current elf life spans are up to 750. Co clue where I got 150 from. Not in the book.
Quote from: Omega;953502As noted. I know allmost nothing of FR so its news to me. :o
But it specifically mentions blindness.
I know, and I suppose it could be a big distinction, but I file it under "stupid stuff someone liked that I will promptly ignore" in both instances so for me it is the same. It's not hard to figure out what's going on. The designers want elves to be quasi-ageless or undying-except-through-violence, but not have to deal with scads of 1000+ year old PC or NPC elves running around (except when they choose to ignore their own rules, as CRKrueger pointed out). Thus, they invented a way for the elves not to die, but instead go "off to a farm." At least that's what I'm reading into it.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;953506I know, and I suppose it could be a big distinction, but I file it under "stupid stuff someone liked that I will promptly ignore" in both instances so for me it is the same. It's not hard to figure out what's going on. The designers want elves to be quasi-ageless or undying-except-through-violence, but not have to deal with scads of 1000+ year old PC or NPC elves running around (except when they choose to ignore their own rules, as CRKrueger pointed out). Thus, they invented a way for the elves not to die, but instead go "off to a farm." At least that's what I'm reading into it.
Well evermeet is the bridge to literally elf heaven so going there pretty much means your PC is dead. Or about to start a high level Planescape campaign?
I was a fan of some of the Forgotten Realms novels. Back before they started going crazy with Drizzt.
But eventually it fell to metaplot. And just stopped being what I considered a viable accessible game setting.
Too many NPCs making the big setting decisions. Not enough of: The PCs being center stage.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;953720I was a fan of some of the Forgotten Realms novels. Back before they started going crazy with Drizzt.
But eventually it fell to metaplot. And just stopped being what I considered a viable accessible game setting.
Too many NPCs making the big setting decisions. Not enough of: The PCs being center stage.
That's what they tried to do with D&D 4e. They changed the setting to make it more dangerous and adventurer friendly and less Elminster's Theme Park. Unfortunately, they brought back Salvatore and Greenwood, who absolutely HATED that, and they've been trying to reign that back to how it was back in 2-3e.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;953804That's what they tried to do with D&D 4e. They changed the setting to make it more dangerous and adventurer friendly and less Elminster's Theme Park. Unfortunately, they brought back Salvatore and Greenwood, who absolutely HATED that, and they've been trying to reign that back to how it was back in 2-3e.
Fiction authors and gamers come at a game setting from different directions. What's good for fiction authors doesn't equate to being good for gamers.
Gamers want their characters to be center stage. And that's pretty much the intent of the D&D experience. The PCs being the protagonists. The focus of what is going on.
Fiction authors come at a setting seeing that: Only their fictional characters matter. So they largely don't take into account the game-ability of the setting they are working on.
We have seen this with the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and just about every other major setting to take off in gaming. The fiction writers disregarding everything outside of their little bubble. And only believing their characters they are choosing to write matter in the setting. And it is that view that has spawned the ugliness of metaplot.
A proper working gaming setting needs to be about the PCs. About their impact on the world about them. About the footprints they leave behind. Because that's really what the players are there for. For their characters to be the heroez, To eventually be the legends.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;954015Fiction authors and gamers come at a game setting from different directions. What's good for fiction authors doesn't equate to being good for gamers.
Gamers want their characters to be center stage. And that's pretty much the intent of the D&D experience. The PCs being the protagonists. The focus of what is going on.
Fiction authors come at a setting seeing that: Only their fictional characters matter. So they largely don't take into account the game-ability of the setting they are working on.
We have seen this with the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and just about every other major setting to take off in gaming. The fiction writers disregarding everything outside of their little bubble. And only believing their characters they are choosing to write matter in the setting. And it is that view that has spawned the ugliness of metaplot.
A proper working gaming setting needs to be about the PCs. About their impact on the world about them. About the footprints they leave behind. Because that's really what the players are there for. For their characters to be the heroez, To eventually be the legends.
The thing is, the stories and the characters, were meant to be non-canon originally, then the game designers started statting them in, or the book writers took the characters in the various adventures.
Here's the thing, the problem I've had with the setting is not that the players want to be the ONLY important people (and I'm talking anecdotally here) they want the CHANCE to be the legends, but also, they don't want to be the ONLY legends. However, the various FR NPCs are often written as THE ONLY LEGENDS and NO ONE can ever reach their levels (Elminster being Level 45-CR 39- and the various Chosen of Mystara in FR 3.x) that was the biggest complaints were. And there was an implication that not using them in your game, you're doing it wrong.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;954051Here's the thing, the problem I've had with the setting is not that the players want to be the ONLY important people (and I'm talking anecdotally here) they want the CHANCE to be the legends, but also, they don't want to be the ONLY legends. However, the various FR NPCs are often written as THE ONLY LEGENDS and NO ONE can ever reach their levels (Elminster being Level 45-CR 39- and the various Chosen of Mystara in FR 3.x) that was the biggest complaints were. And there was an implication that not using them in your game, you're doing it wrong.
It's the pet NPC thing all over again. Which never ends well for anyone.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;954015We have seen this with the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and just about every other major setting to take off in gaming. The fiction writers disregarding everything outside of their little bubble.
And only believing their characters they are choosing to write matter in the setting. And it is that view that has spawned the ugliness of metaplot.
A proper working gaming setting needs to be about the PCs. About their impact on the world about them. About the footprints they leave behind. Because that's really what the players are there for. For their characters to be the heroez, To eventually be the legends.
1: Actually the early DL books were I believe essentially based on gaming sessions? Akin to the Lodoss War novels were based off the original DX sessions.
2: Um... You mean the stories that are (usually) following usually a specific group of adventurers? You mean like any standard game session?
3: In yours maybee. Not in other peoples.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;954054It's the pet NPC thing all over again. Which never ends well for anyone.
I dunno, I've done it a couple of times, using them to pad the party, actually, I had a couple NPC's that I created and the players want to keep them around. Then again, I do give the PC's full info on their stats, and let THEM roll for the characters, maybe that's what's different? I dunno, it's best done in short bursts, I think, and they should not overshadow the PC's.
Quote from: Omega;9540563: In yours maybee. Not in other peoples.
I have been playing and running RPGs since the mid-80's. I have seen a lot of what works and what doesn't.
D&D players come into the experience with certain base assumptions. And the game's basic setup caters to that. Those assumptions haven't really changed since the game's earliest editions.
If a DM decides they are too clever. And they deviate too far from those assumptions the players come to the table with. They are risking disappointed and unhappy players. Which invites a bad end.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;954059I dunno, I've done it a couple of times, using them to pad the party, actually, I had a couple NPC's that I created and the players want to keep them around. Then again, I do give the PC's full info on their stats, and let THEM roll for the characters, maybe that's what's different? I dunno, it's best done in short bursts, I think, and they should not overshadow the PC's.
Actually. What you describe is not the pet NPC thing. Thankfully.
The Pet NPC is created as a star character. Most commonly used to outshine the player characters. They are almost always the result of an insecure DM on an ego trip. One that believes that they need to be the center of of the group's attention. More than they already are just by being the DM.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;954138I have been playing and running RPGs since the mid-80's. I have seen a lot of what works and what doesn't.
D&D players come into the experience with certain base assumptions. And the game's basic setup caters to that. Those assumptions haven't really changed since the game's earliest editions.
If a DM decides they are too clever. And they deviate too far from those assumptions the players come to the table with. They are risking disappointed and unhappy players. Which invites a bad end.
This definitely calls for a lawsuit.
Quote from: Matt;954251This definitely calls for a lawsuit.
I see what you did there.
JG
My interest in D&D 5th Edition was greatly enhanced when I heard that the concepts of Kits from AD&D 2nd Edition had been revisited. It was one of the big aspects I really missed from that age.
D&D 3rd Edition was a fine enough implementation to me. But I thought it was lacking in options for personalizing and customizing just the basic character classes.
Prestige Classes are all well and good for what function they perform. But honestly. It just felt that the basic classes were treated as mostly vanilla and uniform.
There seemed, design-wise, just excuses made to make more new classes that in general filled the same roles as many of the basic classes instead.
I just sent for the following 5th Edition D&D books:
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Volo's Guide To Monsters
Sword Coast Player's Guide
Dungeon Master's Screen
And I would like to thank the people here who convinced me to take the plunge and get them. I got each product at very close to 50% off with Amazon. And I am excited to get my hands on them.
Amazon said they could be here in my hands as early as the 5th. So I am really happy.
I also bought the data package for D&D 5th Edition for Hero Lab.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;960234I just sent for the following 5th Edition D&D books:
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Volo's Guide To Monsters
Sword Coast Player's Guide
Dungeon Master's Screen
And I would like to thank the people here who convinced me to take the plunge and get them. I got each product at very close to 50% off with Amazon. And I am excited to get my hands on them.
Amazon said they could be here in my hands as early as the 5th. So I am really happy.
I also bought the data package for D&D 5th Edition for Hero Lab.
Make sure to find the instructions to install the community pack for Hero Lab 5e. It's a very good tool.
Quote from: Krimson;960239Make sure to find the instructions to install the community pack for Hero Lab 5e. It's a very good tool.
Did so just a few moments ago. Thank you very much for the heads up.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;960253Did so just a few moments ago. Thank you very much for the heads up.
If you use Fantasy Grounds, when I'm home later I can link to a XML converter someone made.
Quote from: Krimson;960258If you use Fantasy Grounds, when I'm home later I can link to a XML converter someone made.
I don't use Fantasy Grounds.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;960320I don't use Fantasy Grounds.
AH no worries then. I find it useful since they added an option to manually input dice, which means it can be used as a campaign manager for pen and paper games as well as a VTT.
I got my D&D 5th Edition books today. They were waiting downstairs in the package lockers. Safe and sound.
The one thing I noticed right away was: The turn to simplicity that 5th Edition has taken. Gone are Prestige Classes and all of the attendant complexity. They are replaced with a simpler, more elegant method of presenting the ideas. Allowing a lot of basic class customization.
In the end: I am very happy with the products I now have.
The books I have seem to be a later printing. With errata incorporated. So this definitely was the time to buy 5th Edition for me.
Yes. The books are now in I believe the 6th printing so depending on the iteration you got. Yes it has all the errata and corrections in.
Mine are 1st prints so had lots of little goofs and a few omissions. Check the WOTC site and they have a list. Should be able to tell what printing you have in the front of the book?
They don't list more than the first printing date. But it also has a notice beside that date of "(This printing contains corrections)".
I have nothing negative to say about these books.
I'm eager to see what comes next.
I would really like to see the material in the Unearthed Arcana articles become the contents of some future game supplements. It's really good stuff.
IIRC, Unearthed Arcana is supposed to be its own book, released sometime late this year.
Besides what's already mentioned, and depending on the setting you want to run there's a ton of stuff on the DM Guild and I personally love Forgotten Characters of the Realms by Thomas M. Costa. He's an author and developer that worked on a few 3e-Era stuff with WotC and mostly the Forgotten Realms. He's detailed a LOT of stuff in the PDF that I have: mostly character creation stuff like races, arch-types for classes, a new Scout class, and spells. All of the lore in the book pertain to the Forgotten Realms though, so if you're not using that particular setting it's gonna need re-worked.
There's also a lot of free stuff on their site as well. Things like the Player's Companions for stuff like Elemental Evil (new spells, a new races or two I think, etc.) If I remember correctly there was a big Compilation of Unearth Articles in one PDF called the Codex - Unearthed Arcana that was up to date until about February of 2017. I'm sure you can find that with a quick Google search or on DM Guild.
Then there are the adventures: of which there are quite a few so far. I really liked the older ones (Murder in Baldur's Gate, Legacy of the Crystal Shard) because they're open ended enough AND they have stats available online (for free) to run it in 3.5, 4e, and 5e. For the newer ones I'd say Curse of Strahd is often said to be one of the best and who doesn't want to fight Demogorgon (now that Stranger Things is super-popular) in Out of the Abyss adventure?
Quote from: Celestial;961298IIRC, Unearthed Arcana is supposed to be its own book, released sometime late this year.
Yes. But no pending release date yet. I plan to buy it. I would just like to know when I can.
Quote from: Celestial;961298IIRC, Unearthed Arcana is supposed to be its own book, released sometime late this year.
It sure feels like it from some of their comments. Like these are mini-playtests for some of this stuff.
But other bits have made it into later books. The Pale Master for example.
Quote from: Omega;961316Like these are mini-playtests for some of this stuff.
I'm pretty sure they are using the UA articles to test reception at the very least.
Each one has had a questionair afterwards so far and its the same system they used during the 5e playtest.
Last night, I spent quite a bit of time scouring over the character classes in the 5th Edition PHB. Giving them a thorough examination.
I like the different variant paths in which the character classes can go. The different options. It eliminates most of the reasons for Prestige Classes. And gets players back to just using the core classes. It makes me very happy.
I went to the DMsGuild website and noticed that people are just offering Prestige Classes in the stuff they put up there in the 5th Edition catagory. Even though they are now counter to the basic design of 5th Edition. It's just a lot of stuff to dig through to actually find something good there. It's like a lot of people just are putting out supplements without actually reading and understanding the 5th Edition. Which is just odd to me.
What interests me most are: New options. New ways of broadening the classes. Sorcerous Traditions and other branches off the main character classes. The more cool options, the better. To me.
Some are just copying, sometimes whole cloth, stuff from 3 and even 4e and slapping 5e on it willy nilly. The GMs Guild very quickly became a total mess.
Who needs more rules? I'm more interested in adventures on the DM's Guild.
Quote from: Voros;964260Who needs more rules? I'm more interested in adventures on the DM's Guild.
A lot of people do considering that a good portion of 5e's player-base came from 3e and 4e. Two systems that, for the past 15 years, created mechanical conceptions for thousands of conceivable option or combinations. In 4e I could play a Vampire Race, with a Vampire background, and a Vampire class with Vampire Feats. In 3e I could play a Centaur barbarian/ cleric/ fighter/ bard with a demon-werewolf template. Yea.......ridiculous but still, when people become accustomed to having all these options at the buffet NOT offering them for the new system in some manner will create a desire for more "crunch".
Quote from: Batman;964290A lot of people do considering that a good portion of 5e's player-base came from 3e and 4e. Two systems that, for the past 15 years, created mechanical conceptions for thousands of conceivable option or combinations. In 4e I could play a Vampire Race, with a Vampire background, and a Vampire class with Vampire Feats. In 3e I could play a Centaur barbarian/ cleric/ fighter/ bard with a demon-werewolf template. Yea.......ridiculous but still, when people become accustomed to having all these options at the buffet NOT offering them for the new system in some manner will create a desire for more "crunch".
You can also play all that as fluffy bits in most any system. The difference now, I think, is that players expect to be mechanically rewarded for everything their PC is. More crunch wanted, as you say, hence the whole video game comparison.
That said, I'm not entirely sure about the desire for more crunch from anyone over 50.:-)
I don't mind a rules heavy game but once your rules are out I want more fluff or lore. I'll take it in an adventure format if I have to but give me a campaign box any day.
Problem with D&D in general is that the game adds way too many unnecessary bolt ins in class/race books which usually have very little, barely justified or downright weird lore to go with them.
Quote from: cranebump;964296You can also play all that as fluffy bits in most any system. The difference now, I think, is that players expect to be mechanically rewarded for everything their PC is. More crunch wanted, as you say, hence the whole video game comparison.
I'm not even sure if it's a reward they are necessarily looking for. I think people just like having options to choose from, metaphorical buttons to push and levers to pull, etc.
Quote from: cranebump;964296You can also play all that as fluffy bits in most any system. The difference now, I think, is that players expect to be mechanically rewarded for everything their PC is. More crunch wanted, as you say, hence the whole video game comparison.
That said, I'm not entirely sure about the desire for more crunch from anyone over 50.:-)
I'd say that the majority of players who were/are prominent in 3e and 4e are probably under 50. And yea, there's an expectation from players to be mechanically rewarded. There's a collection of players who still prefer Pathfinder to 5e because it's seemed (to them) to be more complex or, and I've heard this many times over on their boards, a "Big-Boy RPG" whatever the hell that means? Having played a LARGE amount of 3e and 4e and to a lesser extent Pathfinder I feel most of the options released are rather "meh" overall. The distance between options that are practically required to those that are easily overlooked is HUGE. At least in 5e most options have a significant benefit that no one takes because it's so utterly lacking in mechanical benefit.
I don't think the preference for crunch is just for those under 50. A lot of people who returned to D&D with 5e started with Basic and 2e and part of the attraction is the less crunchy rules and character builds. They would tend to be in their 30s/40s. Plus look at the popularity of rules light and storygame systems for those in their 30s and younger. A lot of grognards who are 50+ online seem to prefer crunch heavy systems.
Basically I don't think it breaks down based on age and while the crunch heavy crowd are the most vocal I don't think they're the majority.
Quote from: Voros;964360Basically I don't think it breaks down based on age and while the crunch heavy crowd are the most vocal I don't think they're the majority.
It makes sense that it wouldn't break down by age. Both heavy crunch and low crunch have been well represented almost since the beginning. Traveller--one of the earliest sci-fi games out there and you get to design spaceships down to the displacement-ton, with every choice having a mechanical benefit. Aftermath? Extremely crunchy. 1e AD&D? Kinda split the difference, since the book contained tons of crunch but lots of people only used the parts they wanted. Certainly once GURPS and Champions came out, people could spend all the time they wanted fine tuning their character build for maximum game benefit.
Good point regarding GURPS and Champions. Crunch heavy systems existed long before 3.5e.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;964313I'm not even sure if it's a reward they are necessarily looking for. I think people just like having options to choose from, metaphorical buttons to push and levers to pull, etc.
That's a reasonable assumption.
Quote from: Voros;964360I don't think the preference for crunch is just for those under 50. A lot of people who returned to D&D with 5e started with Basic and 2e and part of the attraction is the less crunchy rules and character builds. They would tend to be in their 30s/40s. Plus look at the popularity of rules light and storygame systems for those in their 30s and younger. A lot of grognards who are 50+ online seem to prefer crunch heavy systems.
Basically I don't think it breaks down based on age and while the crunch heavy crowd are the most vocal I don't think they're the majority.
No way to know. Your point about storygames being more popular among younger players makes sense, but it feels like an apples-oranges comparison for me, since I'm thinking evels of crunch in similar systems, that is, D&D. I honestly don't even know what "rules medium" is anymore, since my yardstick is based on ease and speed. Using that as my guide, my worst experiences the last decade have been with 3.5, 4E, and 5E, in that order (with 5E having a lot of aspects I actually like). On the subject of options, I'm in the camp of "options at the table" versus "options in chargen and charbuild." Maybe that's simply me looking at it from the side I prefer, though. I prefer not to be noodling around in the books, so, from here on out, it's less is more. For me, anyway.
Quote from: Voros;964372Good point regarding GURPS and Champions. Crunch heavy systems existed long before 3.5e.
The crunch for GURPS is primarily before you get to the table. D&D 3.x and 4E was both.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;964313I'm not even sure if it's a reward they are necessarily looking for. I think people just like having options to choose from, metaphorical buttons to push and levers to pull, etc.
Widgets and gew-gaws and shinies for everyone! Plaster them all over yourself, beyond rhyme or reason! More means more, so who cares?! You're all stars in my universe!
-- RPG Katamari Damacy
:p