So... something that I'm implementing in my new 5e game since the DMG landed is scaling magic-items. To keep "item-bloat" down - the items will scale as the PC's level. I might require additional requirements to "unlock" these other powers. The guide on item design is pretty straightforward. And the beauty of it is that it let's PC's keep those family heirlooms or favorite low-level attained items.
Yep - I ripped it from Fantasy Craft. I have no shame in that. FC rocks. (even more now that Spellbound is coming out)
Anyone else doing anything like this? Or maybe just post up your own items you're creating.
I honestly don't know how much scaling you'll need since the math is much flatter. You're not expected to see your first +3 item until level 17, so that +1 heirloom would stay usefull pretty much for most the game.
I like the idea of magic items providing powers rather than stats (as I've mentioned a billion times before), and I think treating them like, say, aasimar racials might be fun.
That is, at low levels you get Bla cantrip, and then at level 5 you get a different spell, too, and so on.
If players are only having one or two main magic items, this should provide flavor and a feeling of connection to their special item.
(In 3e, a friend ran games with some sort of souped up 'Legacy' weapons, which essentially unlocked abilities at various levels and accounted for some fraction of our 'expected wealth by level.')
Quote from: Sacrosanct;802082I honestly don't know how much scaling you'll need since the math is much flatter. You're not expected to see your first +3 item until level 17, so that +1 heirloom would stay usefull pretty much for most the game.
Well the idea is that magic items shouldn't be assumed to be replaced at specific intervals per se in this campaign I'm running (necessitating a proliferation of magic items floating around your world). So that +1 Heirloom Sword is +1 at level three when your father hands the "family blade" over to you. But then after playing for a while - and you level up to 7 - you "discover"* it can burst into flame... or whatever. At level 17 it's a goddamn lightsaber (or whatever). This isn't about the flatter math - this is simply about the assumptions of how prevalent magic is in the world vs. what the party owns.
* whatever means that leads the character to discover this trait is subject to the DM and the campaign.
@Will - sure! I'm with you on that too. I'm just saying I don't like item-proliferation in some of my games and this is a convenient way of keeping the Christmas Tree effect down.
Tinkered briefly with the idea.
+1 at level 5, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 17.
It is my current guide for what levels might be appropriate to start seeding a few magic items into the loot and at what + level or equivalent.
I would probably do this in my game but not for many of the magic items. I like that sort of Blooming Magic item to be more unique. Though It would work fine in what you have described. Mechanically it makes no difference where or how you get that sword. Campaign wise it may make a world of difference!
I would like all items to be unique but I don't have a huge problem giving a +3 sword to a second level guy to be honest.
One of my mates had a theory that magic items should have much more cataclysmic effects. So he had a sword that was +20 to hit or damage but you could only call on it once then you would always hit at that critical moment because calling on the blood of your ancestors and missing is feeble but you save it for the special moment. Or a shield you can use to absorb the damage from any one blow or a ring that lets you make any one save. Some of the items could be recharged through complex ritual some would vanish with one use.
I am in two minds I like weapons that unlock powers but wouldn't base on level but on some in game event, kill a 100 foes, slay a fire breathing dragon, or a small child. I like one off items that become strategic rather than tactical. I also don't mind a subset of low powered items that are linked, valarian steel blades, the armour of the Legion of the Blessed which can be identified by the sigil of the original knight of the order that wore it, that kind of stuff.
I guess it al comes down to setting consistency
just steal canabilise from weapons of legacy
damit how do you do a strikethrough in vBulletin
I dunno. The trouble with scaling magic weapons is that they seem like participation awards, rather than something special.
Quote from: JeremyR;802133I dunno. The trouble with scaling magic weapons is that they seem like participation awards, rather than something special.
That is why you tie then to in game events like slaying a certain foe or being carried to a certain place and not to meta game events like levelling or spending a feat slot
Quote from: tenbones;802080So... something that I'm implementing in my new 5e game since the DMG landed is scaling magic-items. To keep "item-bloat" down - the items will scale as the PC's level. I might require additional requirements to "unlock" these other powers. The guide on item design is pretty straightforward. And the beauty of it is that it let's PC's keep those family heirlooms or favorite low-level attained items.
Yep - I ripped it from Fantasy Craft. I have no shame in that. FC rocks. (even more now that Spellbound is coming out)
Anyone else doing anything like this? Or maybe just post up your own items you're creating.
Intending to do something like this in my game. I'm ripping it shamelessly from Midnight, which did it before Fantasy Craft. It's a good idea, and I hate the idea of characters just casting off magic swords because something better came along.
I used to do this in 3e, where really the only difference between 'I sell off my heirloom +2 sword for this new +3 sword' and 'I honor my ancestors by sprucing up the family temple, and hey, look, my ancestral sword went from +2 to +3' is accountancy handwaving.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;802142It's a good idea, and I hate the idea of characters just casting off magic swords because something better came along.
Yeah! me too. It's always bugged me.
I did not realize that about Midnight either! I never cared for Midnight, though I own it. I never ran it. I think my sensibilities towards it as a setting have changed - I should give it a good re-look.
Not convinced in the specifics of the world - just I like the concept of it. Might be worth looking at for some good inspiration. Thanks for the reminder!
Quote from: tenbones;802245Yeah! me too. It's always bugged me.
I did not realize that about Midnight either! I never cared for Midnight, though I own it. I never ran it. I think my sensibilities towards it as a setting have changed - I should give it a good re-look.
Not convinced in the specifics of the world - just I like the concept of it. Might be worth looking at for some good inspiration. Thanks for the reminder!
I love Midnight, but I run it with a more hopeful tone: Yes, the odds ARE completely stacked against you, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T win...I own the whole set. Great books.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;802310I love Midnight, but I run it with a more hopeful tone: Yes, the odds ARE completely stacked against you, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T win...I own the whole set. Great books.
I did the same thing.
Do you no longer get better hit/save/etc. chances at higher levels? I'm used to the TSR rules sets in which you do - hence the same quantitative bonus makes a greater difference in proportion to unmodified chance of failure, while increasingly smaller ones become superfluous (as you can't succeed more than 100% of the time).
AC bonuses then are worth less in proportion to better hit chances, while hit % is the multiple of a damage bonus. The slant in favor of offense goes up against increased hp.
You do get better as you level. However there is a monumentally important distinction that a lot of people overlook in 5e that was very much assumed or baked-into D&D 3.x/4e especially - Itemization is not part of class balance.
So this keeps with the modularity concept that GM's can run their games according to whatever magic-economy they want based on the genre/setting conceits they have for their game.
Quote from: tenbones;803241You do get better as you level. However there is a monumentally important distinction that a lot of people overlook in 5e that was very much assumed or baked-into D&D 3.x/4e especially - Itemization is not part of class balance.
So this keeps with the modularity concept that GM's can run their games according to whatever magic-economy they want based on the genre/setting conceits they have for their game.
It is worth noting that in 5e by default you don't get a lot better as you level.
The difference from a 1st level guy to a 20th level guy is +2 rising to +7 and that is the same for all classes.
Now on top of that you have feats, skills and stat increases but that is up to individual players and even then not a huge lift.
This is in marked contrast to earlier editions (fighter thaco is +1 to +20 over the same range for example) and is I guess the bounded accuracy part of the game.
Magic items weren't presumed in TSR D&D until you get into one of those Fighter vs MU arguments and the Pro fighter lobby insist that you give a 15th level figther +4 armour and shield and a +5 weapon although they are generally quite light on the MU side of the fence.
This might fly in the face of people that hate making the comparison...
but even in fiction, it seemed that the non-casters got all the iconic goodies. Sure casters invariably had their staves and wands and shit - and Gandalf was running around with Glamdring - but fuck it, he was already OP *long* before any of the Hobbits and humans were introduced...
Unless you're running a very strict setting in terms of what magic is and how is it used - you almost have to pimp items out to non-casters to keep them relevant. I don't necessarily have an issue with doing that as much as I'd simply rather keep the proliferation factor down.
Of course you can introduce whatever campaign elements you want to mitigate Caster dominance. I introduced the concept of a Psionic "legendary" item I lifted from R. Scott Bakker's 'Prince of Nothing' - called a 'Chorae'. They called them "The Tears of God" - they look like little rune-carved metal marbles. Basically kills an Arcane caster on contact (turns them into a crumbling statue of salt), unweaves magic and makes you immune to directed magical effects, was a very convenient tool to scare the bejeezus out of everyone when Elminster got salted, followed by Khelben a month later. Yeah, talk about putting all the casters on notice. Good times.
Edit: I added the stipulation - that if you possessed one of these, you couldn't therefore *have* any arcane crafted items. So...