TheRPGSite

Jump in RAW doesn't seem like it's worth a 1st level spell. Seems more like a cantrip. A 1st level jump spell should be like a Luke Skywalker/Wuxia Master kind of jump IMO. Add 20' to standing vertical per level of slot used, something like that.

Agree, disagree?

If you cast it on someone who has a 15 Strength, they could go from moving 30 feet to moving 60 feet (15 feet normal movement, jump 45 feet) - and that's assuming that they have to reserve the normal 15 feet of movement that the jump would take; otherwise 75 feet. (If they had to reserve all 48 feet from their movement and their speed didn't increase, the spell would do almost nothing so I don't think that could be a correct interpretation.) With a Dash action, 120 feet. With Cunning Action or Expeditious Retreat, 180 feet. Great for running someone down or getting away, besides uses to get across or up to things when you don't have any kind of flying. And it could bypass some difficult terrain. I'd probably prefer a fixed increase rather than multiplier, since you need a target with a decent strength in the first place to make it worthwhile, and you get fractions of 5 feet for strengths that aren't a multiple of 5.

I'll concede that it's not that strong as first level spells go; I don't think increasing it by substantial distances jumped would really help that, though. Players will still like the damage spells better.

Comparing Longstrider, which only adds 10 feet of movement but lasts longer, and Expeditious Retreat, which only affects the caster and requires concentration and uses up your bonus action each round but potentially lasts longer, it doesn't seem too far out of line. As a cantrip, even lasting only one round, it would still allow easy defeat of chasms and other obstacles that could be jumped across; mostly cantrips don't solve obstacles that easily.

Unless they changed it in the errata, it doesn't have increased effect for higher spell slot use. Multiple targets affected would be my more likely choice if I added that.

Off the top of my head, I cannot recall any wizard PC ever memorizing Jump in any edition of DnD.  On that basis, yeah the spell could probably use some beefing up.  On the other hand, it probably also indicates something about my particular style of running a game that discounts the spell's utility.

I wouldn't choose it for a character class that can't swap out prepared spells, but I just noticed it's a Druid spell. My Moon Druid can now turn into an Allosaurus: 19 Strength, 60 feet of movement. So, without the spell, he could run 11 feet and jump 19 feet, and then do it again, in one move. With the spell, he could add 76 feet of movement and still have an action and bonus action. I am so preparing that spell the next time I get the chance.

"Nerfed" to me implies an unfavorable comparison to a previous version. Which version do you think was better, and how does it compare?

Indeed, we're looking at a 5e spell that is never used, compared to a spell in earlier editions that was never used. At best, it was a scroll thing, but overall, the spell doesn't make much sense.

A low level mage simply can't spare a 1st level slot to memorize this...way too narrow and limited, and it's tough to pick this over all other options---the "wizards always get to pick the bestest of everything" paradigm of later editions mean this spell has to be on a scroll or something to even have a chance of seeing play at low level.

At higher levels, a 5th level mage (not exactly high level) has vastly superior choices than jump, and so once again has no chance whatsoever of using this.

Nerfed? Maybe, but not much of an impact on the game.

Stop deprotagonizing my bouncy allosaurus! :mad:

My Warlock has it and one of my AD&D Magic Users had it.

AD&D Jump: 30ft horizontal, or 10 backwards or up. +1 more leap every 3 levels. 2 leaps at level 4, 3 at level 7 and so on. All the jumps must be done within 1 turn of casting. Needs 1 grasshopper leg per leap. So 3 at level 7.

5e Jump: For 10 rounds the targets jump distance is trippled. Requires 1 grasshopper leg.

In 5e you can jump a number of feet up to your STR if you have at least a 10ft running start, or 1/2 that if a standing jump. You can high jump 3ft + your STR mod with a running start, 1/2 that standing.

So my Warlock with 16 STR can running jump 16ft, 8ft standing. With the Jump spell that boosts to 48ft. 24 for a standing jump. And I can high jump 12ft running or 6 standing. And I can make up to 10 of those. (Though probably not the high jumps)

So NO. The Jump spell has not been nerfed. The AD&D spell does not catch up to it in power untill the caster is level 28 to get 10 leaps. Instead the thing is the two spells act very differently now.

The AD&D one is better for use on weak characters as it allows a standing jump of 30 regardless of STR. But has fewer uses and gets those slowly. The 5e version has more potential leaps right out the gate. But performs less on a weak subject and less without a running start. And it does not improve any.

Hope that helps.

Back in my AD&D days, I let a particularly clever player use Shocking Grasp, passed through a spear as a conduit, in coordination with Jump. Since her F/M/T had a high Dexterity, I'd allow spear damage, Shocking Grasp damage and damage from leaping downwards 10ft (+1d6). It was a bit out of left field, but I allowed it because I felt it was creative.

I guess my problem with it is what it does for characters with an average STR; not much. You'd think even a caster with average STR could get a nice Skywalker type vertical with a first level spell.

Maybe make it a cantrip and self only? Or a different version.

Even with a 9 STR (lowest for a non-option human using point buy or array) that is still a running jump of 27ft and standing of 13. Only 3 short of the original running and little less than 1/2 standing. High jump is 6 running and 3 standing.

And you can do that potentially TEN TIMES right out the gate. 270/130ft total if you can pull off all 10 jumps.

The AD&D version gives you 30/10. Once at level 1. Twice at level 4 and so on.

If you want it as effectively a cantrip then go Warlock. Level 9 you can pick it up as an at will.

I do not think it should be a cantrip just because someone with a low STR doesnt get much potential from it. Its still 3x more distance than you can jump normally.

I do though think that it should be a bonus action or even reaction spell rather than a full action spell.

Quote from: Omega;875352I do though think that it should be a bonus action or even reaction spell rather than a full action spell.

I can see bonus action; a wizard casts it, leaps across some obstacle and lays a Shocking Grasp onto an opponent who did not expect that; or more likely augmenting running away with a Dash action, like Expeditious Retreat, but with leaps across obstacles and so on.

But what would it be a reaction to?

Quote from: rawma;875429I can see bonus action; a wizard casts it, leaps across some obstacle and lays a Shocking Grasp onto an opponent who did not expect that; or more likely augmenting running away with a Dash action, like Expeditious Retreat, but with leaps across obstacles and so on.

But what would it be a reaction to?

I'm sure he's already created a character that's made it to third level, using Jump as a reaction cast whenever an enemy moves within 5'.

One of the big things that limits 5e Jump is this clause in both Long Jump and High Jump, affecting both 10' running start and standing:

"Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 64.)

Which is funny because it caps any gained distance greater than STR 6 for a Running Long Jump, assuming 30' Spd average. (10' run start + (not-mod STR value)*3).

Thus STR=6 is 28', including the running start. Yet then STR=7 is 31' with included running start, but that last foot is somehow lost? Even with Mobility feat (+10' Spd) anything greater than STR 10 is lost distance for Running Long Jump.

It's kinda comical and the above clause likely could be houseruled out. But then maybe there were combat balance considerations involved. Perhaps there was quite a bit 3e tricks of moving full movement and then jumping to explode movement and whatever. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the competition is pretty stiff. And the structure of gaining beginning spells is mostly in player hands. I don't think there's much to salvage.
There's better spells to run away (since you're capped by the above clause).
There's better spells to buff the fighter (though casting it on another isn't completely useless).
There's better spells to explore (Mage Hand, later Fly, etc).

Throw it on a scroll for the lulz? :idunno:

Quote from: Doom;875467I'm sure he's already created a character that's made it to third level, using Jump as a reaction cast whenever an enemy moves within 5'.

Nah, was more thinking like when pits open up under you, or to close in real fast. O r to counter someone else using jump. I prefer charger for that though but can see it useful for those times when you need to move ASAP. Bonus action seems enough though.

And Warlocks dont get Jump as a at will till at least level 9.

Though here is a question that someone else asked at a session and still undecided on.

The question was could a character use jump to scale a wall or cliff?

My opinion was not unless there were ledges you could land on each round since you get only one jump each round. In a 6 second round you can fall as much as 574ft. Or say 144ft in half a round assuming you spent 1/2 ascending in the jump.

Yes, I agree about the ledges. The ground (or more specific "solid, resisting surface one rests upon,") is an assumed part of the effect's start. And that initial state seems to be re-checked each round for "cost of movement" for one's volitional Spd movement within a round. Falling would be part of non-volitional movement and thus exempt from Spd movement calculations.

So you would need a means to avoid the logically expected non-volitional movement affecting you, i.e. falling. Ledges, Spider Climb, climbing gear embedded into the wall surface (if you can grab & hold on), etc. should qualify. Doubtful whether Jumping up a net rope would be better than taking plain ol' 1/2 Spd climb, so most sailing rigging is out. However it should do OK in Arcane Trickster rooftop parkour.

Quote from: Opaopajr;875478One of the big things that limits 5e Jump is this clause in both Long Jump and High Jump, affecting both 10' running start and standing:

"Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 64.)

Which is funny because it caps any gained distance greater than STR 6 for a Running Long Jump, assuming 30' Spd average. (10' run start + (not-mod STR value)*3).

I noticed this too.

The fastest race is the wood elf at 35. The slowest are the Dwarf, Halfling and Gnome at 25. So at best the fastest race is capped at 25ft and the slowest at 15ft with a running start.

Could be it was intentional. The current human record is a bit over 29ft with quite a running start. 12ft for the standing broad jump.

Feather Fall and Jump, when used in coordination, can be a powerful tool to place a wizard above their enemies to reign down a series of Magic Missiles or other nasty spells. Consider it a poor man's Fly, particularly if you pair the two aforementioned spells with Gust of Wind to blow you around.

Rule-bending spell combinations are king in AD&D.

Levitate might be better for that. Feather fall in 5e Feather Fall has you falling 60ft a round. And more importantly ends if you land.

I could see the combo as useful for vaulting a wall. Maybe get a boost in leap height due to Feather Fall and you arent going to break a leg on the descent.

5e Levitate would be better for that, yes. It's big downside is it does not give you control over direction outside of altitude (and it can't kill anyone through falling damage once the spell ends). So a gentle breeze, or others simply moving out of striking range, is enough to cause problems.

Quote from: Opaopajr;875478One of the big things that limits 5e Jump is this clause in both Long Jump and High Jump, affecting both 10' running start and standing:

"Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 64.)

Which is funny because it caps any gained distance greater than STR 6 for a Running Long Jump, assuming 30' Spd average. (10' run start + (not-mod STR value)*3).

Thus STR=6 is 28', including the running start. Yet then STR=7 is 31' with included running start, but that last foot is somehow lost? Even with Mobility feat (+10' Spd) anything greater than STR 10 is lost distance for Running Long Jump.

It's kinda comical and the above clause likely could be houseruled out.

My conclusion was that distance jumped counting against move does not apply to the additional magically supplied distance; like the Supreme Court, don't interpret something in a way that makes something else pointless to have included:

Quote from: rawma;875095If you cast it on someone who has a 15 Strength, they could go from moving 30 feet to moving 60 feet (15 feet normal movement, jump 45 feet) - and that's assuming that they have to reserve the normal 15 feet of movement that the jump would take; otherwise 75 feet. (If they had to reserve all 45 feet from their movement and their speed didn't increase, the spell would do almost nothing so I don't think that could be a correct interpretation.)

(Correcting 48 to 45 in the original post.)

But bearing all this in mind, I will seek a DM ruling before I use it with my allosaurus, however.

Quote from: Opaopajr;875478It's kinda comical and the above clause likely could be houseruled out. But then maybe there were combat balance considerations involved. Perhaps there was quite a bit 3e tricks of moving full movement and then jumping to explode movement and whatever. :rolleyes:

Everybody is always hating on the bouncy allosaurus. :(

Hmmm.....have not done the math, but it is feeling potentially possible for a rogue/wizard to attack, disengage, jump, cannot move the full jump distance on her turn, thereby ending her turn in mid-air and out of an opponent's melee reach.

It may work.  Pick up Gloves of Ogrekind for the 19 Str.  Normal high jump is 7 feet; Jump spell makes it 21.  Disengage for the 10 feet of movement (hmm all bonus movement), so move another 10 feet laterally and jump up 20 feet.  Her movement is done for the turn, so she ends 20 feet in the air.  Should leave her safely out of most melee in midair.

One her next turn, move the last foot upward.  The fall back down does not technically appear to count against movement, so she has 29 feet of movement to do it again.

It would "logically" end in mid-air and then involuntary movement, a.k.a. falling, would take over bringing you down towards the direction of gravity and the next nearest surface.

But yeah, it's one of those head scratching core rule clauses.

Maybe they be hating on bad memories of 3e druids and their 'teh brokken' bouncy allosaurusesesess? :idunno:

If you were airborned at the end of movement then that harsh mistress Gravity says to you "Hello Sailor" and drags you into her loving embrace. Possibly roll falling damage if circumstance decreed.

Jump specifically says you exceed your jump limit though.

Using the running jump as example then the furthest you can get is a Wood Elf with a total possible distance of 25. But with STR as the limiter without magic to bump up STR you are not going to exceed 20.

So the Jump spell will top out at around 60ft max without boosting in some way. Potion of Fire Giant STR for example will get you to 25. 29 tops with Storm Giant.

Longstrider grants you an additional 10 move and stacks with Haste which doubles your movement by the way.

In 5e at least a Moon Druid tops out at CR 6. So sorry. No leaping T-Rexes. Allosaurus is ok though. CR 2 and 19 STR.
BUT!
You can try that with a MAMMOTH with 24 STR and a 40 MOV. That is gonna hurt if they land on someone!

Quote from: Omega;875677If you were airborned at the end of movement then that harsh mistress Gravity says to you "Hello Sailor" and drags you into her loving embrace. Possibly roll falling damage if circumstance decreed.

Jump specifically says you exceed your jump limit though.

I would assume that the Jump spell allows for safe landings.  Otherwise the already useless spell becomes even more pointless if it could kill you just by using it normally (and by normally I mean not falling off a cliff.  That's what Feather Fall is for.)

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875680I would assume that the Jump spell allows for safe landings.  Otherwise the already useless spell becomes even more pointless if it could kill you just by using it normally (and by normally I mean not falling off a cliff.  That's what Feather Fall is for.)

I agree. Its assumed the jump or leap includes the takeoff and landing safely in that round. Worst I could see happening is the spell wearing off while you were still somehow airborne.

I dont think the spell is useless. But like many other spells it is situational.

Normally my human characters have a MOV of 30. But with Jump and my STR 16 I can cover a total of 58ft. (10ft run and 48ft from spell.)

One thing to beef up Jump might be to allow boosting the multiplier by expending a higher tier slot. Eventually that could allow you to cover 12x your jump distance. 192ft for that 16 STR.

So, have a strength of 16, be a spellcaster, use a spell, and go 58 feet.

Or be any race with base 30 feet movement, use the ol' Dash action and go 60 feet.

Quote from: Omega;875677If you were airborned at the end of movement then that harsh mistress Gravity says to you "Hello Sailor" and drags you into her loving embrace.

It is certainly possible for a DM to run the game such that each round is discrete six seconds where the in game fiction is identical to the turn by turn action, and everything must be completed by the end of the round (which is how I understand your comment about gravity pulling down at the end of movement).

Personally, I find the six second rounds and turn by turn action to be a convenient abstraction to make the game playable, but the in game fiction is more of a jumbled mess with everyone doing things at the same time and rounds/turns blurring together.  Hence, I have no problem with a PC ending their turn in mid-jump.  Makes sense to me that stuff can be going on while the PC is jumping; gravity does not need to drag down by the end of every turn.

Quote from: Omega;875677Jump specifically says you exceed your jump limit though.

But while exceeding your standard jump distance, it says nothing about exceeding your movement, which is determined by one's Spd. So while it exceeds the 'jump limit', both of those components (jump distance and expanded jump distance) are within a greater limiter called 'movement', whose 'cost' is paid by the foot. It's the notion of distance traveled, regardless of method, being paid out from the pool called 'movement'; only the rate of cost changes, not the breach of max movement pool.

Here's the SRD copy of Jump for reference.

Jump
1st level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a grasshopper's hind leg)
Duration: 1 minute

You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.
(D&D 5e SRD, January 2016. p. 155.)

Now, I do like the humor involved in Old One Eye's take. Having everything all dynamic in 6 second chunks allowing spill over makes Jump spell leaps very Wuxia in duration. Doesn't really keep someone out of range much for Long Jump as that was clearly stated to not be much about altitude, (barring GM allowance and possible skill check, and still no greater than 1/4 of Long Jump distance). Such a ruling works somewhat with High Jumps, so insert [Wonder Woman, 1980s sitcoms, & Toyota Commercial] jokes here.

I'm still trying to figure out why they thought that movement issue was 'teh brokken' disruptive and needed such a clause while infinite cantrips was not. :idunno:

Quote from: Doom;875747So, have a strength of 16, be a spellcaster, use a spell, and go 58 feet.

Or be any race with base 30 feet movement, use the ol' Dash action and go 60 feet.

The moral of the story is.

Dash before Jumping! :D

Quote from: Omega;875757The moral of the story is.

Dash before Jumping! :D

But my actions! :(

However it does lend itself well to Wuxia Arcane Tricksters & Eldritch Knights. I'm sure there's a Three Musketeers campaign in there somewhere (y'know, the cheesy one with flying ladders).

In fact, you could write a Wuxia campaign where all characters start with the free feat Mage Adept, Wizard spell list, cantrips: Gust & True Strike, 1st: Jump.
(It might even work better than Exalted... :p)

Quote from: Opaopajr;875756You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.

Note that it does not say "Jump distance is tripled. But still limited by movement." If it were limited to your movement then it would be a useless spell. Though on thinking on it. It would still be useful for standing jumps.

Guess what?

Mearls confirmed this. It tripples your jump distance past the MOV limiter.

Then of course Crawford says the exact opposite. MOV is the limiter unless you dash.

Quote@Plaguescarred Can you jump farther than your movement when using magic i.e spell Jump & boots of striding and springing?
@mikemearls i'd rule yes - design intent is to make you jump super far
@JeremyECrawford To be clear, things like the jump spell don't increase speed. You can jump crazy far, but your speed caps it.
@Plaguescarred Are you saying you can't jump farther than your speed even with Jump spell or Boots of Striding and Springing?
@JeremyECrawford Every foot jumped costs movement, so you can jump farther than your current speed if you take the Dash action.

Note though that Athletics allows you to exceed the limiter. But you'll probably fall prone if you fail. Thats up to the DM to decide the DC.

This is very much an edition of DnD that leaves plenty of room for the DM to run things however he sees fit.  Good thing, IMO.

Mike Mearls is sounding like one of those "ideas guys" where they wave their hand to 'make it so' and the little people have to build the framework to make it possible. Crawford sounds way more thorough and experienced with the developed rules.

Which is alright as D&D 5e was supposed to be more fast and loose with freedom for more GM judgment.

For Wuxia Mage Adept Jump, I would make those feat 1st lvl spell slots for Jump spell recharge per Short Rest. Then everyone can go all Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Mearls oft comes across as "Rules as Intended" which is a phrase he uses now and then even.
Crawford oft comes across as "Rules as Written" and for some weird reason often comes across as if he has not actually played, or looked at, the rules as a whole.

But as noted on page 175. Athletics allows you to exceed the move limiter. "unusually long distance."

Quote from: Opaopajr;875637Maybe they be hating on bad memories of 3e druids and their 'teh brokken' bouncy allosaurusesesess? :idunno:

I knew it! An unlikely but pervasive conspiracy to eliminate my preferences from the role-playing hobby! Oh, if only there were a forum on the internet where I could find people who have had similar [STRIKE]paranoia[/STRIKE] experiences. :hmm:

Quote from: Opaopajr;875756I'm still trying to figure out why they thought that movement issue was 'teh brokken' disruptive and needed such a clause while infinite cantrips was not. :idunno:

Conspiracy against me, I tell you! :D

Quote from: Omega;875798Note that it does not say "Jump distance is tripled. But still limited by movement." If it were limited to your movement then it would be a useless spell.

Which was my initial thinking.

QuoteThough on thinking on it. It would still be useful for standing jumps.

Those work against my interpretation; a 10 Strength, 30 foot movement character could hop 6 times for 5 feet, and if there were no movement limit the Jump spell would triple movement rate (albeit not in constricted spaces). And that just looks dumb for anyone who isn't John Carter on Barsoom. (On the other hand, the allosaurus is unusual, since it has a decent running jump without the spell and can actually manage two such jumps in one move; I'd probably be OK with one jump exceeding the move limiter per movement or per Dash action.)

QuoteMearls confirmed this. It tripples your jump distance past the MOV limiter.

Then of course Crawford says the exact opposite. MOV is the limiter unless you dash.

Well, that's helpful. :rolleyes:

QuoteNote though that Athletics allows you to exceed the limiter. But you'll probably fall prone if you fail. Thats up to the DM to decide the DC.

:hmm:

Quote from: Omega;875909But as noted on page 175. Athletics allows you to exceed the move limiter. "unusually long distance."

I think I'll take that as my interpretation; although with the Jump spell I'd probably substitute Acrobatics to stay on your feet and maybe make the DC equal to half the distance in feet by which the movement limit was exceeded.

Another potential benefit to the Jump spell is that you could ignore intermittent patches of difficult terrain (by jumping over it) and thus keep your speed up.

It probably won't ever come up; I have now played the Druid twice since my first post in the thread, and not prepared Jump either time. The odds of finding something that the bouncy allosaurus can run down, that a mere dashing allosaurus* cannot, hardly justifies giving up another useful spell.

*The allosaurus is particularly dashing now that my druid has obtained a Piwafwi cloak. Roll your eyes at drow all you want, but they have an undeniable knack for elegant formal attire.

Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

Quote from: RPGPundit;876332Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

Nope. Its good for getting out of some situations. And like with all non-com spells. You make of it what you will. One players never going to use it. The other is Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

Quote from: RPGPundit;876332Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

Yes; spells like this was one of the reasons "roll randomly to see the spell you learned" was abandoned. It was ok when you first rolled up a character (in AD&D) because you got like 4 spells...it was understood then that you were probably going to get a write-off.

Quote from: RPGPundit;876332Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

The value of a spell can change over editions even if the spell doesn't, though. Rope Trick struck me as fairly useless back when; yes, you could hide in a magical cul de sac for 6 turns plus some random time, but the party had to climb up a rope first so it wasn't a quick get away if you were being pursued, and there wasn't much you could do in the duration that you couldn't have finished in the time it took to climb the rope. But in 5e, it's effectively Leomund's Tiny Bus Shelter for taking short rests in relative safety, even thought the description hasn't really changed much.

Quote from: rawma;876342The value of a spell can change over editions even if the spell doesn't, though. Rope Trick struck me as fairly useless back when; yes, you could hide in a magical cul de sac for 6 turns plus some random time, but the party had to climb up a rope first so it wasn't a quick get away if you were being pursued, and there wasn't much you could do in the duration that you couldn't have finished in the time it took to climb the rope. But in 5e, it's effectively Leomund's Tiny Bus Shelter for taking short rests in relative safety, even thought the description hasn't really changed much.

That's a good point, a spell might become more or less valuable depending on the rule set. Magic Missile's usefulness dropped off sharply (relative to other attacks) once it became very easy to shoot at characters engaged in combat.

Quote from: rawma;876283Those work against my interpretation; a 10 Strength, 30 foot movement character could hop 6 times for 5 feet, and if there were no movement limit the Jump spell would triple movement rate (albeit not in constricted spaces)

Except you can only use one jump from the Jump spell a round. So you could tripple one standing jump. And with a STR of 10 that is going to use up all your movement if you go by the movement limiter. But you covered 30 in one go without the need for a running start which only allows you to cover 10+20.

Lets see what the factors are just for fun.
With a STR 10 and 30 movement you can running jump 10 and standing 5. With the Jump spell you can running 20 and standing 15. Assuming the movement limiter is on. In fact running jump + the spell caps at about 7 STR for a human. (21) Standing jump + Jump caps at 20 STR.

Combined with Dash seems to be where the Spell, ahem, takes off. 30 move and a running dash jump and thats 50ft you can clear.

Quote from: Doom;876358That's a good point, a spell might become more or less valuable depending on the rule set. Magic Missile's usefulness dropped off sharply (relative to other attacks) once it became very easy to shoot at characters engaged in combat.

Pretty much. Though MM is still a sure hit attack.

The 5e DMG does have an optional rule for hitting cover. Which is what 5e treats firing into combat as. pg 272. If the attack misses due to cover. But would have hit if there had not been cover. Then you hit the cover. So of firing into a melee and someones in the way. Theres a snall chance you might hit them depending on how much in the way.

Otherwise oddly enough aside from people in the way imposing cover. No risk.  

Hence we have been using the optional rule and I try not to get between Jan and a target when shes plinking away.

Quote from: Omega;876363Except you can only use one jump from the Jump spell a round.

While I think that's a reasonable interpretation, it doesn't actually say only one jump per round is affected; "You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.".

I think I prefer the "only one jump can exceed the limit on movement and ends your move" (whether it's the move you get each turn, or the move from each Dash action) interpretation.

Quote from: rawma;876376While I think that's a reasonable interpretation, it doesn't actually say only one jump per round is affected; "You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.".

I think I prefer the "only one jump can exceed the limit on movement and ends your move" (whether it's the move you get each turn, or the move from each Dash action) interpretation.

Though you still run into the movement limit either way. 2 spell boosted hops in a round of 15ft with the 10 STR human and you are done.

Addendum: I think it is not so much a problem that the spell is weaker now. It isnt overall. But a problem that the spell is not straightforward since movement reigns it in one way or another and so the spell is less than it could potentially be.