Quote from: Doom;875747So, have a strength of 16, be a spellcaster, use a spell, and go 58 feet.

Or be any race with base 30 feet movement, use the ol' Dash action and go 60 feet.

The moral of the story is.

Dash before Jumping!

Quote from: Omega;875757The moral of the story is.

Dash before Jumping!

But my actions!

However it does lend itself well to Wuxia Arcane Tricksters & Eldritch Knights. I'm sure there's a Three Musketeers campaign in there somewhere (y'know, the cheesy one with flying ladders).

In fact, you could write a Wuxia campaign where all characters start with the free feat Mage Adept, Wizard spell list, cantrips: Gust & True Strike, 1st: Jump.
(It might even work better than Exalted... )

Quote from: Opaopajr;875756You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.

Note that it does not say "Jump distance is tripled. But still limited by movement." If it were limited to your movement then it would be a useless spell. Though on thinking on it. It would still be useful for standing jumps.

Guess what?

Mearls confirmed this. It tripples your jump distance past the MOV limiter.

Then of course Crawford says the exact opposite. MOV is the limiter unless you dash.

Quote@Plaguescarred Can you jump farther than your movement when using magic i.e spell Jump & boots of striding and springing?
@mikemearls i'd rule yes - design intent is to make you jump super far
@JeremyECrawford To be clear, things like the jump spell don't increase speed. You can jump crazy far, but your speed caps it.
@Plaguescarred Are you saying you can't jump farther than your speed even with Jump spell or Boots of Striding and Springing?
@JeremyECrawford Every foot jumped costs movement, so you can jump farther than your current speed if you take the Dash action.

Note though that Athletics allows you to exceed the limiter. But you'll probably fall prone if you fail. Thats up to the DM to decide the DC.

This is very much an edition of DnD that leaves plenty of room for the DM to run things however he sees fit.  Good thing, IMO.

Mike Mearls is sounding like one of those "ideas guys" where they wave their hand to 'make it so' and the little people have to build the framework to make it possible. Crawford sounds way more thorough and experienced with the developed rules.

Which is alright as D&D 5e was supposed to be more fast and loose with freedom for more GM judgment.

For Wuxia Mage Adept Jump, I would make those feat 1st lvl spell slots for Jump spell recharge per Short Rest. Then everyone can go all Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Mearls oft comes across as "Rules as Intended" which is a phrase he uses now and then even.
Crawford oft comes across as "Rules as Written" and for some weird reason often comes across as if he has not actually played, or looked at, the rules as a whole.

But as noted on page 175. Athletics allows you to exceed the move limiter. "unusually long distance."

Quote from: Opaopajr;875637Maybe they be hating on bad memories of 3e druids and their 'teh brokken' bouncy allosaurusesesess? :idunno:

I knew it! An unlikely but pervasive conspiracy to eliminate my preferences from the role-playing hobby! Oh, if only there were a forum on the internet where I could find people who have had similar [STRIKE]paranoia[/STRIKE] experiences. :hmm:

Quote from: Opaopajr;875756I'm still trying to figure out why they thought that movement issue was 'teh brokken' disruptive and needed such a clause while infinite cantrips was not. :idunno:

Conspiracy against me, I tell you!

Quote from: Omega;875798Note that it does not say "Jump distance is tripled. But still limited by movement." If it were limited to your movement then it would be a useless spell.

Which was my initial thinking.

QuoteThough on thinking on it. It would still be useful for standing jumps.

Those work against my interpretation; a 10 Strength, 30 foot movement character could hop 6 times for 5 feet, and if there were no movement limit the Jump spell would triple movement rate (albeit not in constricted spaces). And that just looks dumb for anyone who isn't John Carter on Barsoom. (On the other hand, the allosaurus is unusual, since it has a decent running jump without the spell and can actually manage two such jumps in one move; I'd probably be OK with one jump exceeding the move limiter per movement or per Dash action.)

QuoteMearls confirmed this. It tripples your jump distance past the MOV limiter.

Then of course Crawford says the exact opposite. MOV is the limiter unless you dash.

Well, that's helpful. :rolleyes:

QuoteNote though that Athletics allows you to exceed the limiter. But you'll probably fall prone if you fail. Thats up to the DM to decide the DC.

:hmm:

Quote from: Omega;875909But as noted on page 175. Athletics allows you to exceed the move limiter. "unusually long distance."

I think I'll take that as my interpretation; although with the Jump spell I'd probably substitute Acrobatics to stay on your feet and maybe make the DC equal to half the distance in feet by which the movement limit was exceeded.

Another potential benefit to the Jump spell is that you could ignore intermittent patches of difficult terrain (by jumping over it) and thus keep your speed up.

It probably won't ever come up; I have now played the Druid twice since my first post in the thread, and not prepared Jump either time. The odds of finding something that the bouncy allosaurus can run down, that a mere dashing allosaurus* cannot, hardly justifies giving up another useful spell.

*The allosaurus is particularly dashing now that my druid has obtained a Piwafwi cloak. Roll your eyes at drow all you want, but they have an undeniable knack for elegant formal attire.

Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

Quote from: RPGPundit;876332Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

Nope. Its good for getting out of some situations. And like with all non-com spells. You make of it what you will. One players never going to use it. The other is Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

Quote from: RPGPundit;876332Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

Yes; spells like this was one of the reasons "roll randomly to see the spell you learned" was abandoned. It was ok when you first rolled up a character (in AD&D) because you got like 4 spells...it was understood then that you were probably going to get a write-off.

Quote from: RPGPundit;876332Wasn't Jump always, in every edition it appeared, one of those shitty spells no one really wanted to see randomly rolled up?

The value of a spell can change over editions even if the spell doesn't, though. Rope Trick struck me as fairly useless back when; yes, you could hide in a magical cul de sac for 6 turns plus some random time, but the party had to climb up a rope first so it wasn't a quick get away if you were being pursued, and there wasn't much you could do in the duration that you couldn't have finished in the time it took to climb the rope. But in 5e, it's effectively Leomund's Tiny Bus Shelter for taking short rests in relative safety, even thought the description hasn't really changed much.

Quote from: rawma;876342The value of a spell can change over editions even if the spell doesn't, though. Rope Trick struck me as fairly useless back when; yes, you could hide in a magical cul de sac for 6 turns plus some random time, but the party had to climb up a rope first so it wasn't a quick get away if you were being pursued, and there wasn't much you could do in the duration that you couldn't have finished in the time it took to climb the rope. But in 5e, it's effectively Leomund's Tiny Bus Shelter for taking short rests in relative safety, even thought the description hasn't really changed much.

That's a good point, a spell might become more or less valuable depending on the rule set. Magic Missile's usefulness dropped off sharply (relative to other attacks) once it became very easy to shoot at characters engaged in combat.

Quote from: rawma;876283Those work against my interpretation; a 10 Strength, 30 foot movement character could hop 6 times for 5 feet, and if there were no movement limit the Jump spell would triple movement rate (albeit not in constricted spaces)

Except you can only use one jump from the Jump spell a round. So you could tripple one standing jump. And with a STR of 10 that is going to use up all your movement if you go by the movement limiter. But you covered 30 in one go without the need for a running start which only allows you to cover 10+20.

Lets see what the factors are just for fun.
With a STR 10 and 30 movement you can running jump 10 and standing 5. With the Jump spell you can running 20 and standing 15. Assuming the movement limiter is on. In fact running jump + the spell caps at about 7 STR for a human. (21) Standing jump + Jump caps at 20 STR.

Combined with Dash seems to be where the Spell, ahem, takes off. 30 move and a running dash jump and thats 50ft you can clear.

Quote from: Doom;876358That's a good point, a spell might become more or less valuable depending on the rule set. Magic Missile's usefulness dropped off sharply (relative to other attacks) once it became very easy to shoot at characters engaged in combat.

Pretty much. Though MM is still a sure hit attack.

The 5e DMG does have an optional rule for hitting cover. Which is what 5e treats firing into combat as. pg 272. If the attack misses due to cover. But would have hit if there had not been cover. Then you hit the cover. So of firing into a melee and someones in the way. Theres a snall chance you might hit them depending on how much in the way.

Otherwise oddly enough aside from people in the way imposing cover. No risk.  

Hence we have been using the optional rule and I try not to get between Jan and a target when shes plinking away.

Quote from: Omega;876363Except you can only use one jump from the Jump spell a round.

While I think that's a reasonable interpretation, it doesn't actually say only one jump per round is affected; "You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.".

I think I prefer the "only one jump can exceed the limit on movement and ends your move" (whether it's the move you get each turn, or the move from each Dash action) interpretation.