Yes, I agree about the ledges. The ground (or more specific "solid, resisting surface one rests upon,") is an assumed part of the effect's start. And that initial state seems to be re-checked each round for "cost of movement" for one's volitional Spd movement within a round. Falling would be part of non-volitional movement and thus exempt from Spd movement calculations.

So you would need a means to avoid the logically expected non-volitional movement affecting you, i.e. falling. Ledges, Spider Climb, climbing gear embedded into the wall surface (if you can grab & hold on), etc. should qualify. Doubtful whether Jumping up a net rope would be better than taking plain ol' 1/2 Spd climb, so most sailing rigging is out. However it should do OK in Arcane Trickster rooftop parkour.

Quote from: Opaopajr;875478One of the big things that limits 5e Jump is this clause in both Long Jump and High Jump, affecting both 10' running start and standing:

"Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 64.)

Which is funny because it caps any gained distance greater than STR 6 for a Running Long Jump, assuming 30' Spd average. (10' run start + (not-mod STR value)*3).

I noticed this too.

The fastest race is the wood elf at 35. The slowest are the Dwarf, Halfling and Gnome at 25. So at best the fastest race is capped at 25ft and the slowest at 15ft with a running start.

Could be it was intentional. The current human record is a bit over 29ft with quite a running start. 12ft for the standing broad jump.

Feather Fall and Jump, when used in coordination, can be a powerful tool to place a wizard above their enemies to reign down a series of Magic Missiles or other nasty spells. Consider it a poor man's Fly, particularly if you pair the two aforementioned spells with Gust of Wind to blow you around.

Rule-bending spell combinations are king in AD&D.

Levitate might be better for that. Feather fall in 5e Feather Fall has you falling 60ft a round. And more importantly ends if you land.

I could see the combo as useful for vaulting a wall. Maybe get a boost in leap height due to Feather Fall and you arent going to break a leg on the descent.

5e Levitate would be better for that, yes. It's big downside is it does not give you control over direction outside of altitude (and it can't kill anyone through falling damage once the spell ends). So a gentle breeze, or others simply moving out of striking range, is enough to cause problems.

Quote from: Opaopajr;875478One of the big things that limits 5e Jump is this clause in both Long Jump and High Jump, affecting both 10' running start and standing:

"Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 64.)

Which is funny because it caps any gained distance greater than STR 6 for a Running Long Jump, assuming 30' Spd average. (10' run start + (not-mod STR value)*3).

Thus STR=6 is 28', including the running start. Yet then STR=7 is 31' with included running start, but that last foot is somehow lost? Even with Mobility feat (+10' Spd) anything greater than STR 10 is lost distance for Running Long Jump.

It's kinda comical and the above clause likely could be houseruled out.

My conclusion was that distance jumped counting against move does not apply to the additional magically supplied distance; like the Supreme Court, don't interpret something in a way that makes something else pointless to have included:

Quote from: rawma;875095If you cast it on someone who has a 15 Strength, they could go from moving 30 feet to moving 60 feet (15 feet normal movement, jump 45 feet) - and that's assuming that they have to reserve the normal 15 feet of movement that the jump would take; otherwise 75 feet. (If they had to reserve all 45 feet from their movement and their speed didn't increase, the spell would do almost nothing so I don't think that could be a correct interpretation.)

(Correcting 48 to 45 in the original post.)

But bearing all this in mind, I will seek a DM ruling before I use it with my allosaurus, however.

Quote from: Opaopajr;875478It's kinda comical and the above clause likely could be houseruled out. But then maybe there were combat balance considerations involved. Perhaps there was quite a bit 3e tricks of moving full movement and then jumping to explode movement and whatever. :rolleyes:

Everybody is always hating on the bouncy allosaurus.

Hmmm.....have not done the math, but it is feeling potentially possible for a rogue/wizard to attack, disengage, jump, cannot move the full jump distance on her turn, thereby ending her turn in mid-air and out of an opponent's melee reach.

It may work.  Pick up Gloves of Ogrekind for the 19 Str.  Normal high jump is 7 feet; Jump spell makes it 21.  Disengage for the 10 feet of movement (hmm all bonus movement), so move another 10 feet laterally and jump up 20 feet.  Her movement is done for the turn, so she ends 20 feet in the air.  Should leave her safely out of most melee in midair.

One her next turn, move the last foot upward.  The fall back down does not technically appear to count against movement, so she has 29 feet of movement to do it again.

It would "logically" end in mid-air and then involuntary movement, a.k.a. falling, would take over bringing you down towards the direction of gravity and the next nearest surface.

But yeah, it's one of those head scratching core rule clauses.

Maybe they be hating on bad memories of 3e druids and their 'teh brokken' bouncy allosaurusesesess? :idunno:

If you were airborned at the end of movement then that harsh mistress Gravity says to you "Hello Sailor" and drags you into her loving embrace. Possibly roll falling damage if circumstance decreed.

Jump specifically says you exceed your jump limit though.

Using the running jump as example then the furthest you can get is a Wood Elf with a total possible distance of 25. But with STR as the limiter without magic to bump up STR you are not going to exceed 20.

So the Jump spell will top out at around 60ft max without boosting in some way. Potion of Fire Giant STR for example will get you to 25. 29 tops with Storm Giant.

Longstrider grants you an additional 10 move and stacks with Haste which doubles your movement by the way.

In 5e at least a Moon Druid tops out at CR 6. So sorry. No leaping T-Rexes. Allosaurus is ok though. CR 2 and 19 STR.
BUT!
You can try that with a MAMMOTH with 24 STR and a 40 MOV. That is gonna hurt if they land on someone!

Quote from: Omega;875677If you were airborned at the end of movement then that harsh mistress Gravity says to you "Hello Sailor" and drags you into her loving embrace. Possibly roll falling damage if circumstance decreed.

Jump specifically says you exceed your jump limit though.

I would assume that the Jump spell allows for safe landings.  Otherwise the already useless spell becomes even more pointless if it could kill you just by using it normally (and by normally I mean not falling off a cliff.  That's what Feather Fall is for.)

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875680I would assume that the Jump spell allows for safe landings.  Otherwise the already useless spell becomes even more pointless if it could kill you just by using it normally (and by normally I mean not falling off a cliff.  That's what Feather Fall is for.)

I agree. Its assumed the jump or leap includes the takeoff and landing safely in that round. Worst I could see happening is the spell wearing off while you were still somehow airborne.

I dont think the spell is useless. But like many other spells it is situational.

Normally my human characters have a MOV of 30. But with Jump and my STR 16 I can cover a total of 58ft. (10ft run and 48ft from spell.)

One thing to beef up Jump might be to allow boosting the multiplier by expending a higher tier slot. Eventually that could allow you to cover 12x your jump distance. 192ft for that 16 STR.

So, have a strength of 16, be a spellcaster, use a spell, and go 58 feet.

Or be any race with base 30 feet movement, use the ol' Dash action and go 60 feet.

Quote from: Omega;875677If you were airborned at the end of movement then that harsh mistress Gravity says to you "Hello Sailor" and drags you into her loving embrace.

It is certainly possible for a DM to run the game such that each round is discrete six seconds where the in game fiction is identical to the turn by turn action, and everything must be completed by the end of the round (which is how I understand your comment about gravity pulling down at the end of movement).

Personally, I find the six second rounds and turn by turn action to be a convenient abstraction to make the game playable, but the in game fiction is more of a jumbled mess with everyone doing things at the same time and rounds/turns blurring together.  Hence, I have no problem with a PC ending their turn in mid-jump.  Makes sense to me that stuff can be going on while the PC is jumping; gravity does not need to drag down by the end of every turn.

Quote from: Omega;875677Jump specifically says you exceed your jump limit though.

But while exceeding your standard jump distance, it says nothing about exceeding your movement, which is determined by one's Spd. So while it exceeds the 'jump limit', both of those components (jump distance and expanded jump distance) are within a greater limiter called 'movement', whose 'cost' is paid by the foot. It's the notion of distance traveled, regardless of method, being paid out from the pool called 'movement'; only the rate of cost changes, not the breach of max movement pool.

Here's the SRD copy of Jump for reference.

Jump
1st level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a grasshopper's hind leg)
Duration: 1 minute

You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.
(D&D 5e SRD, January 2016. p. 155.)

Now, I do like the humor involved in Old One Eye's take. Having everything all dynamic in 6 second chunks allowing spill over makes Jump spell leaps very Wuxia in duration. Doesn't really keep someone out of range much for Long Jump as that was clearly stated to not be much about altitude, (barring GM allowance and possible skill check, and still no greater than 1/4 of Long Jump distance). Such a ruling works somewhat with High Jumps, so insert [Wonder Woman, 1980s sitcoms, & Toyota Commercial] jokes here.

I'm still trying to figure out why they thought that movement issue was 'teh brokken' disruptive and needed such a clause while infinite cantrips was not. :idunno: