Apparently this is the big "story line" WotC has in store for the 40th anniversary: http://www.wizards.com/Dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dnd/tyrannyofdragons
Maybe that's what was originally meant in the Next press release with "the most fearsome monster of all time"?
If so... yeah. Treating D&D like a fantasy fiction property to launch across multiple gaming platforms. Sigh.
Quote from: Benoist;726660Apparently this is the big "story line" WotC has in store for the 40th anniversary: http://www.wizards.com/Dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dnd/tyrannyofdragons
Maybe that's what was originally meant in the Next press release with "the most fearsome monster of all time"?
If so... yeah. Treating D&D like a fantasy fiction property to launch across multiple gaming platforms. Sigh.
If it is confined to FR, i wint really mind (since i havent used the realms in about fifteen years) but if it is similar to how they did things with points if light, where it assumed to be in all campaigns, that would kind of irk me.
Meh. FR has always been their default campaign world, and lots of people use it, and rely on the fiction of it. This is just them coming up with a way to try to explain how they're uncluster fucking the Sundering, or whatever it was. They're a business, FR is the biggest campaign setting, so I expect them to focus on that for their cross platform promotions. As always, I use my own setting so I'm not worried about it at all. Doesn't affect me.
yay.... The return of the metaplot...
The 90s called, they want their Metaplot back...
"Dragon Whisperers"? Jesus.
Quote from: Benoist;726660Apparently this is the big "story line" WotC has in store for the 40th anniversary: http://www.wizards.com/Dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dnd/tyrannyofdragons
Maybe that's what was originally meant in the Next press release with "the most fearsome monster of all time"?
If so... yeah. Treating D&D like a fantasy fiction property to launch across multiple gaming platforms. Sigh.
I'm afraid this is never going away; the suits over at Hasbro probably se D&D as an IP first and as a game second.
I feel the best we can hope for, from Hasbro, is an edition that acommodates multiple playstyles. You know, like every pre-4e edition. Which supposedly was the whole point of Next anyway. But I'm not really up to speed on what Next will look like, so I could be catastrophically wrong.
With regards to the campaign, well, that's just a pitch, and not even a bad one. This could be the next Masks of Nyarlathotep for all I know, with PCs battling apocalyptic dragon cultists all over the Forgotten Realms. I think it's a tad too early to declare it DoA.
Hell, I could totally see myself running a campaign with the same premise, with gray box FR and C&C. I'd even call it "Masks of Tiamat" and my Dragonlance-loving players might even dig it (until they start dying). What do you think?
Quote from: TristramEvans;726688"Dragon Whisperers"? Jesus.
The quotes around it I hope meant that was just the shorthand version, but in any case, my god that's awful. Stop getting interns to write the fucking ad copy.
Quote from: The Butcher;726697With regards to the campaign, well, that's just a pitch, and not even a bad one. This could be the next Masks of Nyarlathotep for all I know, with PCs battling apocalyptic dragon cultists all over the Forgotten Realms. I think it's a tad too early to declare it DoA.
True. It could actually be okay, or even good. We'll see.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;726666i wint .
(http://twojb007.tripod.com/images/Mr%20Wint.jpg)
"...pardon?"
Quoteeach one a "dragon whisperer"
(http://civilservant.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/robert-redford-in-the-hor-004.jpg)
"Psst...fly over there...and breath fire on them..."Quote...Icewind Dale...Neverwinter, Waterdeep, Baldur’s Gate
-"All great video games! So by extension THIS will be great!"
WOW WHAT AN EXCITING CAMPAIGN WORLD...said no-one, anywhere, ever.
Quote from: CRKrueger;726698The quotes around it I hope meant that was just the shorthand version, but in any case, my god that's awful. Stop getting interns to write the fucking ad copy.
No, they actually said that.
Whole thing gives me unpleasant Pern flashbacks.
So we've gone from the Tyranny of Fun to the Tyranny of Dragons? Is that better or worse?
Meh, they can goof up the Forgotten Realms all they want. Just so long as it doesnt infect the main rulebooks.
Cant help but think there are going to be some railroady modules ahead, though.
If it was the premise for a novel series I'd laugh at it.
But it's not, and it's a reasonable if not very exciting premise for role-playing game products.
It doesn't sound hugely novel or exciting or groundbreaking or anything like that, (and if it was trying to that would be the time to say the 90s called), rather it seems like an incredibly (reassuringly?) D&D type plot. Which overall seems to fit the spirit they're going for with Next.
It will really depend on the quality the material.
Should be called Tyranny of Banknotes.
Quote from: The Butcher;726697I'm afraid this is never going away; the suits over at Hasbro probably se D&D as an IP first and as a game second.
And don't the Forgotten Realms novels bring in more money for Hasbro than the D&D system?
It sucks that the FR tail is wagging the D&D dog, but WotC are a business, just as all commercial RPG publishers are. Gygax was the same way, neglecting the game during its heyday to chase deals in L.A. But if he wasn't interested in making piles of money, D&D would have stayed a mimeographed wargame alternative sold out of his car at conventions. Most of people on this board owe their introduction to RPGs to an ambitious man trying to use D&D to make a lot of money.
So the suits are only doing their job. No money, no commercially-published game. It's no different from companies that make shoes, printers, and vacuum cleaners. I'm surprised Paizo isn't putting more effort into book/meta crossover books. Maybe foster their own Greenwood or Salvatore.
Quote from: TristramEvans;726729Meh, they can goof up the Forgotten Realms all they want. Just so long as it doesnt infect the main rulebooks.
Hopefully.
Back when I first stopped playing tabletop rpg games altogether, there were only a few 1E Forgotten Realms supplements released. (ie. Waterdeep, etc ...). Years later when I first got back into tabletop rpg games (shortly after 3.5E was released), Forgotten Realms in the meantime became a huge monstrosity (compared to the original grey box) over the years I was on hiatus away from rpg games. It was a bit of a shock at first, coming across hardcore FR "canon lawyers" in the initial 3E/3.5E games I played in.
Quote from: TristramEvans;726729Cant help but think there are going to be some railroady modules ahead, though.
Wonder if WotC will attempt to imitate Paizo's Pathfinder AP series of monthly releases.
Quote from: Haffrung;726955It sucks that the FR tail is wagging the D&D dog, but WotC are a business, just as all commercial RPG publishers are. Gygax was the same way, neglecting the game during its heyday to chase deals in L.A. But if he wasn't interested in making piles of money, D&D would have stayed a mimeographed wargame alternative sold out of his car at conventions. Most of people on this board owe their introduction to RPGs to an ambitious man trying to use D&D to make a lot of money.
This is a completely slanted assessment. For one thing the game spread like a wild fire when it was treated as a game, not an IP, and by the time Gygax was in LA there already were signs that the popularity of the game was reaching a plateau, for a second thing Gary's departure to LA in charge of D&D Entertainment was a result of him losing the battle with the Blumes to keep control of the company, which is not something he himself desired, and for a third the relentless chasing of money and the over-spending at TSR is what created the power struggle that would ultimately get Gary to lose both the game and company he created. So with hindsight, I don't think you'll get a consensus this was such a good thing for Gary and TSR, in the end.
Quote from: Haffrung;726955And don't the Forgotten Realms novels bring in more money for Hasbro than the D&D system?
Has this been documented, or has it only been suspected for a very long time?
I can probably believe this has possibly been the case since mid-2012, when no more new 4E splatbooks were being released, or maybe during early-mid 2008 when no more 3.5E books were being released and the 4E core books were not released yet.
Quote from: Benoist;726960Gary's departure to LA in charge of D&D Entertainment was a result of him losing the battle with Blumes to keep control of the company, which is not something he himself desired, and for a third the relentless chasing of money and the over-spending at TSR is what created the power struggle that would ultimately get Gary to lose both the game and company he created, so in hindsight, this is not exactly something you'd have a consensus about as a "good thing", at the end of the day.
While the Blumes did remove EGG from day-to-day gaming operations, being in Hollywood and attempting to get the properties developed is something that he wanted to do, and I've never seen or heard him say anything against this directly or regret that type of development.
I'm almost positive that if Gary got to keep D&D, instead of bitching about what the "current ownership" has done/is doing, the same exact people would be bitching about what Gary Gygax did to D&D by "selling out".
It's easier to believe in the myth of the "exiled king", struggling as a "starving artist" and setup to be a messianic "Gamer Jesus" figure, when the reality is much different--the only reason he ended up going back to pen and paper games and dabbled in the 2000s was because he failed to make the transition to computer games like he wanted to.
People want to praise Gary as a creative force, but they ignore, downplay, or even deride the entrepreneurial side of him that was in part of what made this whole thing a viable hobby in the first place.
I guess we'll just have to disagree about that bizarre "exiled king" rant of yours, though you'll have to note I didn't mean he didn't want to develop the properties while in charge of D&D Entertainment, I meant he didn't want to hand over the control of the company to the Blumes in the first place.
Quote from: Haffrung;726955It sucks that the FR tail is wagging the D&D dog
In a more general sense, wonder if this is common in other niches.
For example.
- Does Marvel and DC make more revenue from movies than from comic books?
- Does Hasbro make more revenue from Transformers and GI Joe movies, than from the toys?
- Did the Harry Potter movies make more revenue than the actual books?
- Did the James Bond movies make more revenue than the novels (both Fleming and subsequent authors)?
- How much revenue does Star Wars merchandising (toys, etc ...) make, compared to the actual films?
Quote from: ggroy;726973In a more general sense, wonder if this is common in other niches.
The middle three are hard to measure because the majority of the revenue is not shared by the same unit. Hollywood movies have their own accounting and income sources, so it's hard to tell if whatever percentage Hasbro gets from three recent Transformers movies equals the amount they got from directly selling toys. I'm sure J.K. Rowling gets more of a percentage of book revenue than movie revenue.
Star Wars was always owned by Lucasfilm, a great deal for a creator unlike much of Hollywood. Still, that's hard to tell because there were the up decades of the two trilogies and the downtime of mostly licensed revenue.
Comics are owned by the big media companies, and in this case I do think the movies and TV properties have vastly surpassed the original mediums. I'm honestly surprised that both DC and Marvel are still publishing, as the comic book itself has become a pale shadow of its original market and few new people are coming in--while kids learn of Spiderman and Batman likely from cartoons first. I fully suspect in a decade or so one of the big two will shut down regular publishing, perhaps only publishing backlist collections.
Also, if we were to apply this to computer games, WoTC definitely needs to make sure the changes to D&D are coordinated with new and existing computer games. In the post Bioware-games era the D&D Brand has become pretty weak in this field, and it needs to become strong again.
Quote from: JRT;727016Also, if we were to apply this to computer games, WoTC definitely needs to make sure the changes to D&D are coordinated with new and existing computer games. In the post Bioware-games era the D&D Brand has become pretty weak in this field, and it needs to become strong again.
And they better not make it an action RPG for God's sake. What I mean by that isn't so much Skyrim, but more like Diablo. That totally hamstrings the things that make D&D great. It should be party based, and not feel like you have to mash buttons as fast as you can to get anywhere.
Quote from: ggroy;726973In a more general sense, wonder if this is common in other niches.
For example.
- Does Marvel and DC make more revenue from movies than from comic books?
Yes, but in this case Marvel means Disney and DC means Time Warner. The people making the comics arent seeing any of that money.
Quote- Does Hasbro make more revenue from Transformers and GI Joe movies, than from the toys?
No. Popular toylines make crazy money. The reason Cars is getting a sequel and not The Incredibles is because Cars sold a crapload of toy cars. TF has been doing that since the 80s, and GIJoe is older than Mego.
Quote- Did the Harry Potter movies make more revenue than the actual books?
No.
Quote- Did the James Bond movies make more revenue than the novels (both Fleming and subsequent authors)?
Yes.
Quote- How much revenue does Star Wars merchandising (toys, etc ...) make, compared to the actual films?
That question is the gateway to Nyarlothotepian madness.
Quote from: TristramEvans;727060Yes, but in this case Marvel means Disney and DC means Time Warner. The people making the comics arent seeing any of that money.
I don't know about DC, but Marvel changed their business model to "Entertainment" and they got a lot of their movie deals in place before being purchased by Disney. So at least in the case of Marvel, their division gets the revenue. It's just that publishing comics is now a small percentage of the gross income.
QuoteAnd they better not make it an action RPG for God's sake. What I mean by that isn't so much Skyrim, but more like Diablo. That totally hamstrings the things that make D&D great. It should be party based, and not feel like you have to mash buttons as fast as you can to get anywhere.
Perhaps, though Action RPGs are the rage. Personally, with the success of games like Left 4 Dead, Borderlands, and other small group games, the perfect game would probably be a group of 4 players + Optional DM who can create quick dungeons and spawn content. I could see that working regardless of it being a Diablo or Borderlands clone.
Perhaps I should rephrase: the editors, writers, artists, and inkers of the comics are not seeing any of that money.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;727019And they better not make it an action RPG for God's sake. What I mean by that isn't so much Skyrim, but more like Diablo. That totally hamstrings the things that make D&D great. It should be party based, and not feel like you have to mash buttons as fast as you can to get anywhere.
There's a lot of scope in the license for a good game in the S(trategy)RPG genre (ie, games like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force), and as always it's a shame that never happened with 4e. But what Wizards really need to do is phone Obsidian, offer them as much time and money as they need, and let them come up with something. They're pretty much the best developers around for RPG-esque computer games these days.
I do like a good Diablolike, or Dark Souls, but really the licence doesn't lend itself to single-character games.
This (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/dungeonforge/) is also a thing that looks like it might be neat.
Quote from: Ladybird;727091There's a lot of scope in the license for a good game in the S(trategy)RPG genre (ie, games like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force), and as always it's a shame that never happened with 4e. But what Wizards really need to do is phone Obsidian, offer them as much time and money as they need, and let them come up with something. They're pretty much the best developers around for RPG-esque computer games these days.
I do like a good Diablolike, or Dark Souls, but really the licence doesn't lend itself to single-character games.
This (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/dungeonforge/) is also a thing that looks like it might be neat.
I think there's absolutely room for multiple types of games, but they better have one that is multicharacter and turn based, to really capture that D&D feel.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;727096I think there's absolutely room for multiple types of games, but they better have one that is multicharacter and turn based, to really capture that D&D feel.
I'm pretty sure my post said the same thing, in fact namedropping a lot of multi-character, turn-based strategy games... there's also been a bit of a rennaisance of party-based first-person dungeon crawlers going on, but they're mostly being done by small teams and publishers who wouldn't be able to afford the D&D license.
But yeah. Obsidian. They're the people that should really be offered the license.
Quote from: Ladybird;727114I'm pretty sure my post said the same thing, in fact namedropping a lot of multi-character, turn-based strategy games... there's also been a bit of a rennaisance of party-based first-person dungeon crawlers going on, but they're mostly being done by small teams and publishers who wouldn't be able to afford the D&D license.
But yeah. Obsidian. They're the people that should really be offered the license.
I don't disagree at all. Where are all the turn based RPGs? The only one I have found was Wizardy for the PS3. It seems like they are gone and no one makes them anymore
Quote from: Sacrosanct;727117I don't disagree at all. Where are all the turn based RPGs? The only one I have found was Wizardy for the PS3. It seems like they are gone and no one makes them anymore
Etrian Oddyssey, for the (3)DS, is a reasonably popular current series; there was also The Dark Spire last gen, and apparantly one of the Shin Megami Whatever games is a dungeon crawler, although Europe isn't allowed to play that for some mad reason. I liked Orcs and Elves, but that's more turn-based Heretic than an RPG. Legend of Grimrock, Paper Sorcerer, Dark Delve, Malevolence, Demise, Frayed Knights: The Skull of S'makh-Daon...
I haven't played most of those (And some of them may be real-time movement), but that's a ten-minute google crawl, should keep you busy for a couple of weeks. I haven't even looked at mobile.
There's fuck all on home consoles, but that's because there's no money for smaller developers on home consoles these days.
I will be the first to say that Wizard's ads are not great. However I DMed Vault of the Dracolich for D&D Next. It lasted 3 four hour sessions. Well worth 4.99. Multiple entrances, various NPCs, it was great. Not a railroad and lots of fun to DM. PCs could rescue a treant and make an ally. My group made a deal with the trogs instead of fighting them. Lots of open ended options.
I am not a FR fan but that module was good. I think this Tiamat throw down will be good too.
Quote from: Benoist;726660Apparently this is the big "story line" WotC has in store for the 40th anniversary: http://www.wizards.com/Dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dnd/tyrannyofdragons
Maybe that's what was originally meant in the Next press release with "the most fearsome monster of all time"?
If so... yeah. Treating D&D like a fantasy fiction property to launch across multiple gaming platforms. Sigh.
What is different between that and Temple of Elemental Evil's background waxing about the Battle of Emridy Meadows?
Quote from: Old One Eye;727260What is different between that and Temple of Elemental Evil's background waxing about the Battle of Emridy Meadows?
Well, its a big difference if its not the background for an adventure but a metaplot for the setting itself.
Possibly the game overall if FR is being used as the default setting.
Also...."dragon whisperers" (shudder)
In spirit of all those films named just alike the blockbusters but not quite so, someone should start writing Tyranny of Dagon.
Quote from: Rincewind1;727292In spirit of all those films named just alike the blockbusters but not quite so, someone should start writing Tyranny of Dagon.
The five lost socks must be found to raise Dagon from the deep!
Can the octopus whisperers save the realms?
Quote from: TristramEvans;727290Well, its a big difference if its not the background for an adventure but a metaplot for the setting itself.
Possibly the game overall if FR is being used as the default setting.
Also...."dragon whisperers" (shudder)
OK, I went back and reread it to see if I missed something. FR has a shit ton of metaplots: Zhentarim seeking to control trade routes, Tuigan horde invasion, etc. Yeah, this looks like adding one more to the mix.
There will probably be a big ass campaign arc thingy. Some video game, board game, and other tie ins.
Not really seeing this being shoehorned into the rpg as a whole. Just the initial theme of peripheral releases.
They need some type of adventure ready at release. They need some type of theme for video games, board games, and the like. There be dragons seems innocent enough for a game called Dungeons & Dragons.
Are you concerned there will be something like a dragon whisperer class in the PHB?
Mostly my concern would actually be that the background/meraplot is introduced as the default setting in the core, and then over a course of years in splatbooks the "secrets" (locations of the masks, etc) will be revealed in a White Wolf-esque marketing strategy. Worste case scenario, the answers are dealt with over various connected media. In general, I dont tend to like "official answers". They tend to bring out the worste in those gamers obsessed with cannon.
As for Dragon Whisperers...the concept just makes me groan. Just personal taste. That and, well, dragons can talk, cant they? I dont think itll be a core class (everything Ive read up to now makes me think theyll be sticking with a classic line-up for the core rules), but will probably be a setting-specific prestige class.
I would assume there to be some tangental references in the PHB/DMG/MM. As a pure guess, it will be more like the Greyhawk references in AD&D than the points of light references in 4e.
If you fiddle with the public play living campain whatever, yeah it will probably be a dominate theme. If you are like me and just play home games with friends, I doubt it will be any more obnoxious than ignoring Greyhawk when playing AD&D.
Quote from: Old One Eye;727334I would assume there to be some tangental references in the PHB/DMG/MM. As a pure guess, it will be more like the Greyhawk references in AD&D than the points of light references in 4e.
If you fiddle with the public play living campain whatever, yeah it will probably be a dominate theme. If you are like me and just play home games with friends, I doubt it will be any more obnoxious than ignoring Greyhawk when playing AD&D.
I hope so. Ill admit Im prone to pessimism regarding WoTC D&D these days.
Well since they covered a carom billiards (with bomb hazards!) video game, that being D&D Arena of War, who knows what new video game they will do with their property? I mean with this metaplot we could see a Hungry Hungry Tiamat smart phone game if we're lucky!
Quote from: TristramEvans;727328In general, I dont tend to like "official answers". They tend to bring out the worst in those gamers obsessed with cannon.
This seems to be the case in other niches too, where there's tons of related written material, episodes, movies, etc ...
The absolute worst "canon lawyers" I've come across over the years in person offline, were the ones heavily into the Star Wars EU. (I haven't come across as many hardcore Star Trek "canon lawyers").
Quote from: Opaopajr;727389I mean with this metaplot we could see a Hungry Hungry Tiamat smart phone game if we're lucky!
...honestly? I'd buy that for my iPad.
As carom billiards games go, Arena of War is a smooth production. If they took out the unnecessary card grinding & pay to play aspects it might actually even elevate to 'good'. It's just not what you think of when you think D&D. Neither is Hungry Hungry Hippos.