SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

DCCRPG going Woke

Started by Bogmagog, November 10, 2021, 04:25:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

GeekyBugle

Quote from: Wrath of God on November 13, 2021, 02:34:26 PM
Quote
That is very clearly not what they mean here. What they mean here is that any player can stop the game at any time and make any kind of demand about things that should be taken out or put into the game or that the GM change a ruling for any reason, because this is a "collaborative storytelling game" run by the players, not the GM and he doesn't have the authority to do anything without the player's "consent".

Which is all bullshit. The one and ONLY "right" that a player has at the table is the right to walk away whenever they like. That's the entire nature of the social contract in a regular gaming table.

Rulings, not rules. Each gaming table is it's own entity. And the power distribution depends of people agreeing to play in specific way.
So no your way may be older - but it's in no way some Platonic ideal.

For instance it can be whole team kicking GM off, and if it's all against one, and they pick another GM among themselves to continue gaming - I think we can all agree right (and in such situation ironically might makes right) was on their side, and GM was walked away never to return. Because he does not constitutes the table. Table is Commonwealth. And Presidents can be impeached.

Now I'm more on trad side myself - but on the other hand, new ways were born, because terrible railroading GM's homeruling games without telling player, ignoring rolls when inconvinient were a thing. I would say in 90's and early 00's they were a plague. And this is part PC, but part backlash against it. Of course I doubt it would work well, because problem is - there is too much lazy players unwilling to take GM's mantle, and so the laws of market allows asshole GMs to fluorish.

QuoteThat ONLY right is the only one needed. If the GM doesn't keep his players engaged and enjoying thr game, that game can be killed,, so that right is veto power.

Worse game can continue without him :3

QuoteThe format of regulations like the ones given for the Goodman Con creates a situation where a player can INSIST that they will NOT leave the game, and the GM must do whatever they want, and if the GM tries to kick the player out of his table, he will be the one sanctioned for his "bigotry".

Well yes but on GoodmanCon table belongs neither to players nor to GM. It belongs to Goodman Games, and they loan them to players for a time, under certain rules.
And as they physically own table... you get it. So it was never GM's table in the first place. He was never a king, nor a president, merely herold, or mercenary sergeant.

QuoteSo it turns DMs into powerless puppets there to do the whims of whoever is the loudest demographic at the table.

Whoever wants to DM to bunch of randoms at convention deserves any kind of doom they shall meet.

QuoteThey often have their con pass payed for if they agree to DM so they might be kicked from the con for not DMing

Well damn, that makes them even less lords of table, and more hired goons. You wanna table, you buy your own. And if you are bought by a table, tough shit.

QuoteAnybody okay with any publisher using they/them as a neutral gender term is a Woke ally. It doesn't matter if the Chicago Manual of Style or whatever puts "they" in the style guide... If you can't tell or see how politically moved all these changes have been for their purposes of subverting and inverting language than that's what they want. Our language is being subverted. Our culture is being systematically targeted and those behind it know what they are doing. Getting the Chicago Style of Grammar or whatever it's called to go along with it is just another win for these evil bastards.

I am not the manichean. As we discussed before singular they for unspecified subject is thing for 600 fucking years of English development. (And it mostly sounds better in such occurences at least for me non-native). So if that's amount of woke incoming - I could not care less. If leftists gonna do something fine once upon a time, I'm not gonna scoff in name of Absolute War.


Quote"Well it's okay if Goodman Games uses they, but if they use Xe then that's too far." ... This is exactly the kind of thinking the Woke Left want people to have. This is what let's these people get away with all their Woke crap.

Well no. Woke Left want us to accept xir, zer, dun and bunny pronouns, or will scream, and whine, and cancel us. There is no half-way, not nowadays with those bastards.
That's precisely why I have no problem with cherrypicking those moments when broken clock shows right time here and there for my private pleasure.

QuoteWhy should the DM have to leave their game because of one Jabroni is not affirming "enthusiastic agreement of game development"? Just that situation occurring is a CoC violation that could lead to you being sanctioned or expelled from the con.

Because he is mercenary in service of ruthless ConLords and he shall do as they order him to.
That's the deal. The only consent Con-GM has in his game, is stop GMing for Cons, and return to his basement.


QuoteThe only rule you ever need at a con, table or otherwise is, 'don't be a dick'.

All that other shit is just to lick the arses of the woke scolds in the hope you sell some more copies of your whateverthefuck.

That's terrible rule for any public gathering where lot of people not knowing themselves gonna met. It's imprecise in all possible ways, unless we interpret it as ban to all men (and women!) named Richard :P Sorry Mr. Cheney - no con for you :P


QuoteThose were the days when game conventions were fun, rational, reasonable, and fucking normal. I remember always be treated like a welcome guest by every staff member, security, bartender, whoever.

And the people attending? All were generally wonderful people, who were always looking to make new friends, enjoy gaming, and welcome new gamers to their games, or themselves trying new games, and enjoying meeting new, fun and interesting people.

It boggles me that so many game conventions are turning into fucking cesspools of hatred and absolute stupidity.

Because generally loosely defined rules works only in generally monocultural societies, and US is not a one, and it's less and less anything like this with every passing years. And more divergent society - the more specific rules to judge. Cannot say I condemn it, when we were planning our CatholicCon in Poland, which fizzled due to pandemic unfortunetely our Rules were definitely more than "not be dick". We also have rules against furrysuits, lewd behaviour, mini skirts, and Calvinism.

Bolding mine

So you think players have the right to kick me out of MY table at my house because they are more than me?

Or is it just in conventions where you think that enough dangerhairs at your table means you get to be kicked out of it and the convention because you refused to suck the feminine benis?

Mind you, I'm talking especifically about woketard rules, not sane normal rules at conventions.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Ruprecht

To add to the style guide discussion Microsoft also has a Style guide that is well used in the tech industry. I'm not sure how woke a style guide is matters all that much as most companies with a Tech Pubs department will develop their own in house style guide based on Chicago or Microsoft or whatever and the woke type-stuff is gonna be something they look at carefully instead of just accepting.

I also think Goodman Games is just virtue signaling. The way the owner brought it up in the video, he was so damned proud they could finally update that historical error he made long ago, it was kind of sad.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

Abraxus

It all depends on where the game is located. If it is at the DM house than the only option is to walk away if the DM is being a duct to the players. Or asking the okayed to leave if they are being a duck to the DM.

Outside of their homes  if the DM: player are also being ducks then yeah I won't hesitate to kick one of the other or both out. Being either does not confer some imagined immunity from being tossed out of a game and someone else home.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on November 12, 2021, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 04:12:33 PM
I don't think anyone is "winning" by fanning the burning shit heaps that get made of even the tiniest issues that arise. But you make money from it all, so I get why you're so into spritzing kerosene onto the tiniest embers. You do you.

And none of the woke scolds make money from playing their monotonous sludge? Gimme a break... Virtually all those muppets scrounge about with their patreon and paypal constantly seeking donations. And what do they create for the most part 'nout? They just bleat on about their woke crapola. So what do they really contribute to the hobby? Nothing of real substance.

At least Pundit is a creator, and can sell games and supplements.


Around 120 games and supplements, and counting.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

RPGPundit

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 06:57:23 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 12, 2021, 06:20:25 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 12, 2021, 04:04:23 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 12, 2021, 03:51:10 PM
Quote from: Haffrung on November 12, 2021, 06:15:50 AM
Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 04:36:33 PM
In general, English isn't closely prescribed - and usage will vary, especially in conversation and non-formal writing like fiction and RPGs.

RPG books are rules documents - a kind of formal writing. Any professional writers, editors, and publishers worth their salt adhere to a style guide. Something like the Chicago Manual of Style. And 'they' as a singular pronoun is increasingly being recognized in professional style guides. The last three companies I've worked for - two of them oil and gas companies - did not use gendered pronouns in their documentation.

Goodman are doing nothing more than adopting the new norms of language. It might satisfy the tribal allegiances of some here if DCC defied those norms. But it's a businesses trying to meet market and professional standards, not a political actor flying the flag of some faction of fandom.

Their Con guidelines beg to differ. They're apparently proudly flying the flag of "geek feminism" and "player autonomy" (ie. Forge bullshit where players get veto power over the GM).
Players always have a degree of veto power over the GM. They can choose not to play, and if enough of them choose that, the GM now has a playerless game. The players can then put together the game they want, and if the GM is too much of an ass about the whole thing, they might not be invited to join. That applies beyond games too...there's a degree of veto power in almost any social group activity.

That is very clearly not what they mean here. What they mean here is that any player can stop the game at any time and make any kind of demand about things that should be taken out or put into the game or that the GM change a ruling for any reason, because this is a "collaborative storytelling game" run by the players, not the GM and he doesn't have the authority to do anything without the player's "consent".

Which is all bullshit. The one and ONLY "right" that a player has at the table is the right to walk away whenever they like. That's the entire nature of the social contract in a regular gaming table.


That ONLY right is the only one needed. If the GM doesn't keep his players engaged and enjoying thr game, that game can be killed,, so that right is veto power.

The format of regulations like the ones given for the Goodman Con creates a situation where a player can INSIST that they will NOT leave the game, and the GM must do whatever they want, and if the GM tries to kick the player out of his table, he will be the one sanctioned for his "bigotry".

So it turns DMs into powerless puppets there to do the whims of whoever is the loudest demographic at the table.
The DM retsins the same right to leave the game as any other player. Does the con somehow bind them to run a game they don't want to run/play? What are the consequences they would face for just stating "I'm done here" or just humming out a test pattern for the remainder of the time slot?

So you are now cheering a system that switches from a natural hierarchy (of THE GUY RUNNING THE WORLD being the one in charge of what happens in it, and everyone else individually has the right to walk away) to a system where one primma donna psychopathic asshole can HOLD AN ENTIRE GROUP HOSTAGE with as unreasonable demands as they like, as long as their demographics and/or politics are the correct type.

You could have a table of 5 great well-intentioned players, a great and well intentioned DM, and 1 sociopath using leftist ideology to get whatever they want, and you're saying that instead of being able to throw out the 1 bad apple the gaming group should be FORCED to either cater to his every little whim, or the entire group must be cancelled and not allowed to continue, because to dismiss the one special leftist puppy would be bigoted. That's your argument?
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Fantacide on November 13, 2021, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: dkabq on November 13, 2021, 10:30:00 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 13, 2021, 08:16:00 AM
Ok, for the con game, play/run by con rules. No big deal. For your own games, in your own spaces, run how you (and your players) like. This isn't really hard to understand.

You have a point, if at a con, play/run by the con's rules. But fuck beans, have you read the rules?

  • safety tools
  • the requirement to routinely reaffirm pronouns
  • the requirement to routinely check-in to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development
  • "Dungeon Con Online prioritizes marginalized people's safety over privileged people's comfort."
  • "Dungeon Con Online reserves the right not to act on complaints of 'reverse' -isms, including 'reverse racism,' 'reverse sexism,' and 'cisphobia'." So if you are white and black person calls you a "cracker", you can just fuck right off.
  • The Star Chamber Enforcement & Consequences process. Looks like they took a page out of the Obama era Title IX playbook

Yeah....I want nothing to do with all that.  I'll buy and support stuff that doesn't put my head on a chopping block.


Note to everyone: if you like DCC and the type of setting it encourages, but  no longer want to spend money on Goodman games, I would suggest checking out my World of the Last Sun setting book/supplement, and the various Last Sun "RPGPundit Presents" issues (like the Frantabulous Robot Generator I recently did a video about), all of which are based on my nearly decade-long DCC campaign.

LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

SHARK

Quote from: Fantacide on November 13, 2021, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: dkabq on November 13, 2021, 10:30:00 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 13, 2021, 08:16:00 AM
Ok, for the con game, play/run by con rules. No big deal. For your own games, in your own spaces, run how you (and your players) like. This isn't really hard to understand.

You have a point, if at a con, play/run by the con's rules. But fuck beans, have you read the rules?

  • safety tools
  • the requirement to routinely reaffirm pronouns
  • the requirement to routinely check-in to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development
  • "Dungeon Con Online prioritizes marginalized people's safety over privileged people's comfort."
  • "Dungeon Con Online reserves the right not to act on complaints of 'reverse' -isms, including 'reverse racism,' 'reverse sexism,' and 'cisphobia'." So if you are white and black person calls you a "cracker", you can just fuck right off.
  • The Star Chamber Enforcement & Consequences process. Looks like they took a page out of the Obama era Title IX playbook

Yeah....I want nothing to do with all that.  I'll buy and support stuff that doesn't put my head on a chopping block.

Greetings!

Hmmm...how about the requirement that "Dungeon Con Online" takes their fucking woke agenda and shoves it up their ass?

I am a DM, and I will run a fucking game table as *I* see fit. Goodman Games can get fucked entirely. I will run the fucking game table MY WAY, or I can easily attend a different con, or not go to a con at all. I'd be sure to tell all my friends never to give them a nickel, and refuse to attend any con sponsored by or attended by Goodman Games.

That's MY requirement. Fucking woke morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Tubesock Army

If you know the rules going into a con, and you don't like them, either don't go, or don't bitch.

Fantacide

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 13, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
If you know the rules going into a con, and you don't like them, either don't go, or don't bitch.

That's exactly what I did. I'm just letting others know about their policies so they can make their own decisions.

Wrath of God

Quote
Bolding mine

So you think players have the right to kick me out of MY table at my house because they are more than me?

And who told that game is played in GM's place? It can be played in public place. Or in one of player's basement.
Also quite obviously I talk about table as certain gathering, not furniture. Furniture belongs to whoever they belongs, and whether gaming table can meet at certain wooden table depends of wooden table's owner.

But they can kick GM out of team, and continue the same game without him.

Quote
Or is it just in conventions where you think that enough dangerhairs at your table means you get to be kicked out of it and the convention because you refused to suck the feminine benis?

Mind you, I'm talking especifically about woketard rules, not sane normal rules at conventions.

If given wooden table belongs to convention then convention can ban you for whatever really within legal system of your country. They own it.
Now of course in cerain way you own you conGame as mental construct so you can say orgs Fuck You, gather all players aside of this green-haired spider-fearing xir Aztec and invite them to your house, and they cannot stop you.

QuoteI also think Goodman Games is just virtue signaling. The way the owner brought it up in the video, he was so damned proud they could finally update that historical error he made long ago, it was kind of sad.

Broke: Changing general pronouns to they, because it's more inclusive.
Joke: Keeping he as gender neutral to own woke.
Bespoke: Changing general pronouns to they, because you reject any changes to English implemented by bloody protestants.

QuoteIt all depends on where the game is located. If it is at the DM house than the only option is to walk away if the DM is being a duct to the players. Or asking the okayed to leave if they are being a duck to the DM.

Outside of their homes  if the DM: player are also being ducks then yeah I won't hesitate to kick one of the other or both out. Being either does not confer some imagined immunity from being tossed out of a game and someone else home

Based.

QuoteSo you are now cheering a system that switches from a natural hierarchy (of THE GUY RUNNING THE WORLD being the one in charge of what happens in it, and everyone else individually has the right to walk away) to a system where one primma donna psychopathic asshole can HOLD AN ENTIRE GROUP HOSTAGE with as unreasonable demands as they like, as long as their demographics and/or politics are the correct type.

That's because natural hierarchy on con, is that con orgs are top hierarchy not GM's quite obviously.
That's why I always considered con-games to meh, even in muh better times.

But also it generally is no... natural hierarchy. There's nothing natural about RPG, generally speaking.
It's convinient hierarchy because most of players are well content with being character players, and they want to throw all heavy work on GM's. And that - aside of cons - give GM real monarchic power. Lazy players. Not necessarily bad players, just content with their serf position. But the real nature of RPG is that it's free community of equal humans, so this position can be quite easily flipped, if players are more invested in world, rules, and not being railroaded by GM's bias.

And of course GM even if rules the world, does not owns him, so he can be replaced within scope of same game if he is asshole.
And that's how free cooperatives works.

For instance it's not unheard that there are campaigns, where 0 session is collaborative worldbuilding. Sometimes GM's enforces it to make PC's more engaged into world. Nevertheless while it's GM running such world later, he is still obliged by social contract to keep estabilished facts from session 0. And he can be, and should be in name of justice called out if he break it for sake of own unrealised novelist ambitions :P



QuoteYou could have a table of 5 great well-intentioned players, a great and well intentioned DM, and 1 sociopath using leftist ideology to get whatever they want, and you're saying that instead of being able to throw out the 1 bad apple the gaming group should be FORCED to either cater to his every little whim, or the entire group must be cancelled and not allowed to continue, because to dismiss the one special leftist puppy would be bigoted. That's your argument?

And you all agree to play not by yourself but on party organised by greedy corporate bastards willing to sell their and your souls in name of their actual PR and HR agenda.
Like you know Pundit as OSR player you should be quite familiar with fact that there are situations where you should just run out of particular dungeon rather than confront its denizens.

QuoteI am a DM, and I will run a fucking game table as *I* see fit. Goodman Games can get fucked entirely. I will run the fucking game table MY WAY, or I can easily attend a different con, or not go to a con at all. I'd be sure to tell all my friends never to give them a nickel, and refuse to attend any con sponsored by or attended by Goodman Games.

As long as you own specific wooden table, and have mutual agreement with your gaming table then you're welcome.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

SHARK

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 13, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
If you know the rules going into a con, and you don't like them, either don't go, or don't bitch.

Greetings!

*Laughing* What the fuck?

I am a PAYING CUSTOMER. The fucking con is there to serve me. If they are seeking to provide a service to the public--in this case a game convention--but which is similar to any other market service, and such a participant or business has policies that I FIND INSULTING AND OFFENSIVE? Oh, hell fucking no! You damned right I am going to fucking BITCH ABOUT IT!

Just like I would write up a scathing online review of a restaurant or hotel. Just like when I have gotten shitty service on occasion from restaurants, guess what? I get the manager front and fucking center, and break them the fuck down. And if the management doesn't fucking hop to it and make me satisfied,--guess what then? I make a personal phone call to the fucking company and speak to a VP or some other executive, who I GUARANTEE will make me fucking happy, and jackhammer the stupid fucking employee that thought they could freely and willy-nily insult me, offend me, and ignore me.

I don't fucking think so.

Guess what happens when a business offends more people? They go fucking BROKE.

It's a general rule inside business, that when ONE CUSTOMER is OFFENDED, they will effect 10 additional customers, at a minimum. SUCCESSFUL companies and businesses take these kinds of things very seriously.

Damn right I am going to fucking bitch about it. And I will tell lots of my friends about it, too. I'll make sure word gets around real good.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Jason Coplen

Quote from: RebelSky on November 13, 2021, 08:54:30 AM

There is a book on Amazon I just found out about called Counter Wokecraft. It just got released. If you want to actually know about this Woke infestation and understand it then check it out. There is also a YouTube channel named New Discourses, by a guy named Mike Lindsey, who breaks down everything about the Woke from an academic perspective. I am not affiliated with either. I just prefer not to be ignorant.

I'm still in the introduction of that book. James Lindsay is very good. He has video after video explaining the woke bullshit, and I watch or listen to them all.

I corrected it because you messed up his name. :) Hopefully nobody beat me to that.
Running: HarnMaster and Baptism of Fire

HappyDaze

Quote from: dkabq on November 13, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: dkabq on November 13, 2021, 10:30:00 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 13, 2021, 08:16:00 AM
Ok, for the con game, play/run by con rules. No big deal. For your own games, in your own spaces, run how you (and your players) like. This isn't really hard to understand.

You have a point, if at a con, play/run by the con's rules. But fuck beans, have you read the rules?

  • safety tools
  • the requirement to routinely reaffirm pronouns
  • the requirement to routinely check-in to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development
  • "Dungeon Con Online prioritizes marginalized people's safety over privileged people's comfort."
  • "Dungeon Con Online reserves the right not to act on complaints of 'reverse' -isms, including 'reverse racism,' 'reverse sexism,' and 'cisphobia'." So if you are white and black person calls you a "cracker", you can just fuck right off.
  • The Star Chamber Enforcement & Consequences process. Looks like they took a page out of the Obama era Title IX playbook
Last con I went to was in 2004. I didn't much care for it, and since I prefer home/private games and can shop either online or through local store (the two overlap somewhat in central Florida), I've never felt much desire to go to another con. If I did, I would read the rules (and yes, those rules would push me back towards not wanting to go). If for some reason I still decided to go there and run a game, then I'd follow the rules just like I follow rules at work that I may not entirely agree with.

Sounds like we are in agreement. Must be a sign of the coming end of days.    :P

I lived in Central Florida/Orlando in the long, long ago. Did you ever patronize Enterprise 1701?
Back when it was by the Naval Training Center and again after thr move. Then they became sci-fi city and things went downhill.

trechriron

Quote from: dkabq on November 13, 2021, 10:30:00 AM

You have a point, if at a con, play/run by the con's rules. But fuck beans, have you read the rules?

  • safety tools
  • the requirement to routinely reaffirm pronouns
  • the requirement to routinely check-in to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development
  • "Dungeon Con Online prioritizes marginalized people's safety over privileged people's comfort."
  • "Dungeon Con Online reserves the right not to act on complaints of 'reverse' -isms, including 'reverse racism,' 'reverse sexism,' and 'cisphobia'." So if you are white and black person calls you a "cracker", you can just fuck right off.
...
[/list]

This is too far. If you're going to respect people, respect everyone. Being a dick is not a racial stereotype. Anyone can be a dick.

Also, I haven't seen Safety Tools work. I've seen them introduced. Always saps the energy from the table. I'm sure some are panicking because the perverts running the game found a way to "politely" explore their trauma. The other bunch are wondering why we need to setup safe worlds to roll dice. No one EVER engages the STs. Well, I witnessed one pervert engage them. A story for another time...

Encouraging people to see your way of thinking is one thing - but enforcing shit like this just affirms that people don't like you and don't want to play with you.

Sidenote: can we stop posting the HUGE quotes please? Makes it hard to read your responses. Yes, I am reading your responses.
Trentin C Bergeron (trechriron)
Bard, Creative & RPG Enthusiast

----------------------------------------------------------------------
D.O.N.G. Black-Belt (Thanks tenbones!)

HappyDaze

Quote from: RPGPundit on November 13, 2021, 03:37:18 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 06:57:23 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 12, 2021, 06:20:25 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 12, 2021, 04:04:23 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 12, 2021, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 12, 2021, 03:51:10 PM
Quote from: Haffrung on November 12, 2021, 06:15:50 AM
Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 04:36:33 PM
In general, English isn't closely prescribed - and usage will vary, especially in conversation and non-formal writing like fiction and RPGs.

RPG books are rules documents - a kind of formal writing. Any professional writers, editors, and publishers worth their salt adhere to a style guide. Something like the Chicago Manual of Style. And 'they' as a singular pronoun is increasingly being recognized in professional style guides. The last three companies I've worked for - two of them oil and gas companies - did not use gendered pronouns in their documentation.

Goodman are doing nothing more than adopting the new norms of language. It might satisfy the tribal allegiances of some here if DCC defied those norms. But it's a businesses trying to meet market and professional standards, not a political actor flying the flag of some faction of fandom.

Their Con guidelines beg to differ. They're apparently proudly flying the flag of "geek feminism" and "player autonomy" (ie. Forge bullshit where players get veto power over the GM).
Players always have a degree of veto power over the GM. They can choose not to play, and if enough of them choose that, the GM now has a playerless game. The players can then put together the game they want, and if the GM is too much of an ass about the whole thing, they might not be invited to join. That applies beyond games too...there's a degree of veto power in almost any social group activity.

That is very clearly not what they mean here. What they mean here is that any player can stop the game at any time and make any kind of demand about things that should be taken out or put into the game or that the GM change a ruling for any reason, because this is a "collaborative storytelling game" run by the players, not the GM and he doesn't have the authority to do anything without the player's "consent".

Which is all bullshit. The one and ONLY "right" that a player has at the table is the right to walk away whenever they like. That's the entire nature of the social contract in a regular gaming table.


That ONLY right is the only one needed. If the GM doesn't keep his players engaged and enjoying thr game, that game can be killed,, so that right is veto power.

The format of regulations like the ones given for the Goodman Con creates a situation where a player can INSIST that they will NOT leave the game, and the GM must do whatever they want, and if the GM tries to kick the player out of his table, he will be the one sanctioned for his "bigotry".

So it turns DMs into powerless puppets there to do the whims of whoever is the loudest demographic at the table.
The DM retsins the same right to leave the game as any other player. Does the con somehow bind them to run a game they don't want to run/play? What are the consequences they would face for just stating "I'm done here" or just humming out a test pattern for the remainder of the time slot?

So you are now cheering a system that switches from a natural hierarchy (of THE GUY RUNNING THE WORLD being the one in charge of what happens in it, and everyone else individually has the right to walk away) to a system where one primma donna psychopathic asshole can HOLD AN ENTIRE GROUP HOSTAGE with as unreasonable demands as they like, as long as their demographics and/or politics are the correct type.

You could have a table of 5 great well-intentioned players, a great and well intentioned DM, and 1 sociopath using leftist ideology to get whatever they want, and you're saying that instead of being able to throw out the 1 bad apple the gaming group should be FORCED to either cater to his every little whim, or the entire group must be cancelled and not allowed to continue, because to dismiss the one special leftist puppy would be bigoted. That's your argument?
No, that isn't what I'm saying.  However, if a significant portion of your players agree that what you're doing isn't fun/engaging (or is hostile/abusive) they can effectively kill your game by withdrawing and immediately selecting one of themselves to run a new game--possibly using the same setting, characters, and system (and you might get invited to play if you're not being too much of an ass).