Quote from: Omega;1138327They want "modern" customers. Cattle that will buy and re-buy their product without question. Happy to be slaughtered and bled out.

New Apple's iD&D.  Rounded corners, smooth, unoffensive and simple to use.

Quote from: Omega;1138327As said before. Marketing pushes that older players are "problematic". They have "expectations" that get in the way of the "creatives" "vision" of what the game should be about.

Older players are also "problematic" because they are more often savvy and resistant to modern marketing tactics like outrage marketing and the five year plan. They want "modern" customers. Cattle that will buy and re-buy their product without question. Happy to be slaughtered and bled out.

Agreed and seconded and what is worse they think no one will notice especially the older gamers except we are usually smarter to that bullshit.

In any case if anything good that came out of Covid is that my order of the PF 2E book never arrived and I requested and received a refund. I could see the slow descent of the Paizo devs into fake "woke and woe is me I am such a bad person for being white and overly privliged" bullshit. I knew it was bad. I never realized how bad it was until they grovelled like gutless wonders because of their Police AP. I am not stopping to play and maybe possibly buy more 1E product. Chances are good I will probably never buy 2E after this fiasco. I rather buy 5E which has the same SJW garbage and they bend the knee yet imo Wotc tends have a little more self-respect not by much though. Beyond the issues with their politics the 2E products are both more expensive and lacking in information imo.

Their version of Legends and Lore Inner Sea Gods for PF 1E is 52$ on Amazon.ca and is 300 pages, compared to the Lost Omens and Gods book that is 46.50 has less information and content and 128 pages. The first book is pretty much self contained the second they are spooning out in small amounts with the same price. Note I am not against making money as an rpg company when the initial book is pretty much complete and has all the information and the second one is less so and as expensive well i guess they learned the lessons from Wotc. I can justify both to my fiance and mainly to myself buying a 50$ 128 page book when pre- Pathfinder 2E that same book would sell for 25-30 in softcover.

Quote from: Omega;1138327As said before. Marketing pushes that older players are "problematic". They have "expectations" that get in the way of the "creatives" "vision" of what the game should be about.

Older players are also "problematic" because they are more often savvy and resistant to modern marketing tactics like outrage marketing and the five year plan. They want "modern" customers. Cattle that will buy and re-buy their product without question. Happy to be slaughtered and bled out.

And yet, those older players are the very reason that "they have jobs" in the RPG industry today.  All artists are free to express their creative vision; but if there aren't enough people who are willing to buy into their vision, they will be back to working a normal job outside of the RPG industry.

Quote from: Razor 007;1138506And yet, those older players are the very reason that "they have jobs" in the RPG industry today.  All artists are free to express their creative vision; but if there aren't enough people who are willing to buy into their vision, they will be back to working a normal job outside of the RPG industry.

This is why they push more and more for "pay per word" for books and "pay per hour" for art rather than on the actual merit of the work. These are also the ones who most oft bitch about older players being bad and interfering with their "agenda" or "vision".

Meanwhile the execs are trying to attract this "untapped customer base" at the expense of their existing customer base. This has been going on a while now. Movies, games, entertainements been gradually overrun with these types.

Quote from: Omega;1138519This is why they push more and more for "pay per word" for books and "pay per hour" for art rather than on the actual merit of the work. These are also the ones who most oft bitch about older players being bad and interfering with their "agenda" or "vision".

Meanwhile the execs are trying to attract this "untapped customer base" at the expense of their existing customer base. This has been going on a while now. Movies, games, entertainements been gradually overrun with these types.

"New customer base" is a smokescreen. The goal is to destroy, even ahead of profits.

Quote from: RandyB;1138521"New customer base" is a smokescreen. The goal is to destroy, even ahead of profits.

Eeeh Id say its a mix of elements that are not really realized. Very few consciously realize their end-goal is destruction.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1138522Eeeh Id say its a mix of elements that are not really realized. Very few consciously realize their end-goal is destruction.

The historic label for those unaware individuals is "useful idiots".

Quote from: Omega;1138089Oh it will hurt their sales but marketing and the SJW infiltrators will convince the suits that it an "acceptable loss" in older to "cultivate a new and larger customer base" eg: mindless cattle that buy what they are told to buy.

You're right that they don't care, but it's actually because they would be entirely happy to see the entire industry die so long as it brings them closer to their socialist eschaton.

Quote from: areallifetrex;1138580You're right that they don't care, but it's actually because they would be entirely happy to see the entire industry die so long as it brings them closer to their socialist eschaton.

The RPG industry is a drop in the bucket, whether it succeeds or fails won't affect the course of nations. People doing this sort of thing should run for public office if they want to get into politics, instead of trying to manage an RPG company. This is not just in RPG, there are Hollywood producers, and reporters that think they are politicians, instead of doing their jobs, they seek to sway public opinion instead of just producing a good product that the public wants to buy. I would like an RPG company that just wants to make a buck by selling a great product, whatever happened to that? Why do they stray into modern politics so often and often in the left side of the political spectrum? Maybe they are in the wrong job if they do that. They are ruining some great companies just because they want to use them as political levers, they should be fired for doing that!

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1138640The RPG industry is a drop in the bucket, whether it succeeds or fails won't affect the course of nations. People doing this sort of thing should run for public office if they want to get into politics, instead of trying to manage an RPG company. This is not just in RPG, there are Hollywood producers, and reporters that think they are politicians, instead of doing their jobs, they seek to sway public opinion instead of just producing a good product that the public wants to buy. I would like an RPG company that just wants to make a buck by selling a great product, whatever happened to that? Why do they stray into modern politics so often and often in the left side of the political spectrum? Maybe they are in the wrong job if they do that. They are ruining some great companies just because they want to use them as political levers, they should be fired for doing that!

You mention ruining companies. That's been one of the things that's bugged me of late about companies 'going woke'. Not just genuflecting, either.

A publicly traded company and its board of directors has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders to not fuck up the stock values. Now, businesses rise and fall, and sometimes bad luck intervenes. But are shareholders so 'woke' they'll happily watch their stock value tank to be properly progressive?

And mind you, some of the biggest stockholders aren't individuals or even businesses, but pension and retirement plans -- especially state-run pension plans. Which adds a new degree of absurdity to this dance.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1138640The RPG industry is a drop in the bucket, whether it succeeds or fails won't affect the course of nations.

No, but one of the requirements of the Leftist belief system is that EVERYTHING is politics. You cannot NOT talk about politics. Ever.

Also, Leftists, like the Puritans, are miserable little shits. The old joke that Puritanism is the "dreadful sense that someone somewhere is happy" applies just as much to the modern Leftist. If you're having FUN playing an RPG instead of contemplating your sins to wokeness then you're a heathen that must be ostracized from society.

RPGs, like the entertainment industry used to be, were ESCAPES from their monolith. You cannot be allowed to escape for even a moment though because escape gives you a chance to recharge and continue to resist. They've wrecked music, movies, television, sports and they're in the process with video games and RPGs. They took full advantage of the China virus to cancel just about every summertime event people might gather at to have fun.

They want you to be miserable so you'll surrender... escaping via playing RPGs (which generally embrace teamwork among very different characters, respect for authority/the GM and just having a good with your friends) isn't allowed in the new order.

The best way to take away RPGs is make the big ones into something no one really wants to buy and use "cancel culture" to remove those that are still enjoyable from public view so they'll slowly be choked off as the current fans who have the books don't need new ones and no one new is buying them.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1138647You mention ruining companies. That's been one of the things that's bugged me of late about companies 'going woke'. Not just genuflecting, either.

A publicly traded company and its board of directors has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders to not fuck up the stock values. Now, businesses rise and fall, and sometimes bad luck intervenes. But are shareholders so 'woke' they'll happily watch their stock value tank to be properly progressive?

And mind you, some of the biggest stockholders aren't individuals or even businesses, but pension and retirement plans -- especially state-run pension plans. Which adds a new degree of absurdity to this dance.

Shareholders are likely being kept in the dark. Or worse. Told that these actions are "loss leaders" That losing customers and revenue is good for the company and profits as they are attracting a new more diverse customer base. Cattle that can be more easily slaughtered.

There may also be pressure to just accept the loss as resistance means you can be branded as racist.

Quote from: Chris24601;1138654Also, Leftists, like the Puritans, are miserable little shits. The old joke that Puritanism is the "dreadful sense that someone somewhere is happy" applies just as much to the modern Leftist. If you're having FUN playing an RPG instead of contemplating your sins to wokeness then you're a heathen that must be ostracized from society.

RPGs, like the entertainment industry used to be, were ESCAPES from their monolith. You cannot be allowed to escape for even a moment though because escape gives you a chance to recharge and continue to resist. They've wrecked music, movies, television, sports and they're in the process with video games and RPGs. They took full advantage of the China virus to cancel just about every summertime event people might gather at to have fun.

They want you to be miserable so you'll surrender... escaping via playing RPGs (which generally embrace teamwork among very different characters, respect for authority/the GM and just having a good with your friends) isn't allowed in the new order.

The best way to take away RPGs is make the big ones into something no one really wants to buy and use "cancel culture" to remove those that are still enjoyable from public view so they'll slowly be choked off as the current fans who have the books don't need new ones and no one new is buying them.

That is because the new left is the old puritans with the added armour of political outrage. Look back and you'll see that this SJW disease started by primarily targeting things deemed "sexist". Which was anything and everything as we predicted. Then it snowballed because a few spearhead leaders started really pushing it and glueing in more and more "ists" to the list of sins. Suddenly your game racist! and so on.

And removing any escape from them is part of the plan. If your hate screed is everywhere then its more likely to take root in the unsuspecting. And they use deflection to make it seem like they are protecting you from this very tactic.