One thing I suggest to guys here, most of us will tend towards older and tend to DM. Make it a point to DM at your local hobby shop with a homebrewed 5E. Add in components from other games and run older AD&D content updated to 5E. Put in components from other games, like the Luck Mechanic from DCC. And run a good game. Slowly bring up the lameness of WotC and their current content. Slowly poison your group towards WotC. I've done a fairly good job of inoculating my group towards WotC. I've been able to turn about 15 players over the last 3 years to using older D&D modules and contents , many of whom now DM their own games now,
WotC has generated a fair bit of bad press, people are looking at other content. Get people used to creating their own content and using older content and you can start hemming in WotC's D&D margins. The best way to remove the censorship from WotC is to starve them of money. Even if only 10% of players are dissafected, it can spread. And with the depression coming, people won't have money to buy new content. People will be looking at the local hobby shop for free content. You can offer good D&D sans WotC's filth and train a lot of people to not buy WotC content and hurt WotC even more.
Most D&D players just want to play a fantasy RPG and will go along with whatever is fun with a cool DM, regardless of system. There's a chunk of the D&D fandom who will only play the official current edition, but those aren't your targets.
Naw, just run a good game that isn't WotC at all. Anything. Let things develop from there. The really nice thing about this approach is you don't have to care about what WotC is doing, or risk the negativity bleeding into your own game.
I'm about to start up a third group for my system. Many of the players are 5E players. I'm not being coy about why I wrote my own--but I'm not exaggerating it either. I didn't do it because of WotC. I'd been moving that way for a long time. WotC's contribution was giving me that last little nudge to work at it. If they ask, I'm not hiding that fact. But after that, it's not about WotC at all. It's about playing the game in front of us.
Quote from: Spinachcat on August 03, 2023, 04:25:58 AM
Most D&D players just want to play a fantasy RPG and will go along with whatever is fun with a cool DM, regardless of system. There's a chunk of the D&D fandom who will only play the official current edition, but those aren't your targets.
There's a chunk of tabletop gamers who will only play the current trendy bandwagon. Tons of indie devs have written everything from cyberpunk to space opera using 5e rules because that's the quickest way to get views.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on August 03, 2023, 07:47:03 AM
Naw, just run a good game that isn't WotC at all. Anything. Let things develop from there. The really nice thing about this approach is you don't have to care about what WotC is doing, or risk the negativity bleeding into your own game.
That's what I am doing with OSE and it has been a lot of fun,
Quote from: Spinachcat on August 03, 2023, 04:25:58 AM
Most D&D players just want to play a fantasy RPG and will go along with whatever is fun with a cool DM, regardless of system. There's a chunk of the D&D fandom who will only play the official current edition, but those aren't your targets.
In my experience, if you are willing to run a game and provide players with materials, 90% of them will at least give it a shot. I had a stack of Labyrinth Lord manuals at one point and gave them out like candy, never had a problem getting anyone to play.
I concur with Brad. Back in the day, I would suggest GURPS, but nowadays you can find legal and free PDFs everywhere! And when it comes to what's 'trendy' - just start your own trend! Ask the FLG to carry something you've been running, or ask to leave flyers or something. Geez, it can't be THAT difficult if it's allowing non-Hasbro games to be played in-store! :)
I've never played D&D.
It's not malice. It simply was the fact my first RPG was Palladium RoboTech, and then we bought their other genre games that use the same set of rules. Palladium had a universal system before that term was a real thing.
I don't think D&D style rules are actually good, both from simply reading them, and seeing it played once or twice. THAC-0 also didn't help.
These days I'm tempted to try an OSR d20 game like Basic Fantasy just to see what I'm missing. However, I keep finding little rules lite games that look fun as hell, so my backlog keeps building.
1. Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool.
2. Mini-Six Bare Bones
3. Black Star
4. Tiny D6 Mecha vs Monsters.
I told my players we are shifting to Shadowdark because WOTC/DNDBeyond will soon start charging not only the DM but players through the nose for monthly fees. In this way we are massively simplifying our game and moving into a playstyle that allows more flexibility and simplification with easy PC management.
We converted all their PC's over to them with their current classes, this is the hard part, and told them the basics. Now on our 5th sessions no one gives a fuck about DNDBeyond or WOTC as they, like everyone else, is just here to roll dice and have fun in a make believe world of elves and flying lizards the size of semi's guarding imaginary treasure.
Quote from: Brad on August 03, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat on August 03, 2023, 04:25:58 AM
Most D&D players just want to play a fantasy RPG and will go along with whatever is fun with a cool DM, regardless of system. There's a chunk of the D&D fandom who will only play the official current edition, but those aren't your targets.
In my experience, if you are willing to run a game and provide players with materials, 90% of them will at least give it a shot. I had a stack of Labyrinth Lord manuals at one point and gave them out like candy, never had a problem getting anyone to play.
In my expirence this works in person, but if you play online it can be hard to pry people away from 5e. Though tbh 5e has consistently had the flakiest players, though i havent run 5e since 2017. My expirence in person has been that people are just happy to play as long as the broad genre is similar to something they want.
One way to invite people to "play 5e" is just use the SRD.
Not that I think it is a good idea, I'd rather play something else nowadays. But at least you're not giving them money.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 02, 2023, 10:21:37 PM
One thing I suggest to guys here, most of us will tend towards older and tend to DM. Make it a point to DM at your local hobby shop with a homebrewed 5E.
FAR better yet. Don't run ANY WotC crap. Run PF or C&C or other modern D&D like games.
Quote from: Brad on August 03, 2023, 04:45:49 PM
In my experience, if you are willing to run a game and provide players with materials, 90% of them will at least give it a shot. I had a stack of Labyrinth Lord manuals at one point and gave them out like candy, never had a problem getting anyone to play.
That's why I like that Troll Lords gives away its PHB PDF for free
Quote from: Scooter on August 04, 2023, 05:30:50 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 02, 2023, 10:21:37 PM
One thing I suggest to guys here, most of us will tend towards older and tend to DM. Make it a point to DM at your local hobby shop with a homebrewed 5E.
FAR better yet. Don't run ANY WotC crap. Run PF or C&C or other modern D&D like games.
Interesting so Keep on the Borderland, The Village Homlett, Temple of Elemental Evil and Against the Giants are crap? 5E = 2E + Advantage + Monster Stats from 3E, that's it. You are essentially playing 2E when you are playing 5E.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 04, 2023, 09:28:29 PM
Interesting so Keep on the Borderland, The Village Homlett, Temple of Elemental Evil and Against the Giants are crap?
Who said those were crap? WTF are you babbling on about?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 04, 2023, 09:28:29 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 04, 2023, 05:30:50 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 02, 2023, 10:21:37 PM
One thing I suggest to guys here, most of us will tend towards older and tend to DM. Make it a point to DM at your local hobby shop with a homebrewed 5E.
FAR better yet. Don't run ANY WotC crap. Run PF or C&C or other modern D&D like games.
Interesting so Keep on the Borderland, The Village Homlett, Temple of Elemental Evil and Against the Giants are crap? 5E = 2E + Advantage + Monster Stats from 3E, that's it. You are essentially playing 2E when you are playing 5E.
I think it's obvious he's meant the garbage WotC is producing now, not TSR titles that they acquired in the purchase. You almost have to try to fail this hard.
If he plays D&D he's obviously an idiot to NOT know that WotC didn't produce those works.
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:17:02 AM
If he plays D&D he's obviously an idiot to NOT know that WotC didn't produce those works.
Ohh, he knows. YOU'D have to be an idiot to not read the subtext of his comment. ;) It's clear he specifically chose old TSR titles so he can conflate them with new WotC trash in order to make whatever asinine point he thought he was making. It's so obviously retarded, it had to be deliberate.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:17:02 AM
If he plays D&D he's obviously an idiot to NOT know that WotC didn't produce those works.
Ohh, he knows. YOU'D have to be an idiot to not read the subtext of his comment. ;) It's clear he specifically chose old TSR titles so he can conflate them with new WotC trash in order to make whatever asinine point he thought he was making. It's so obviously retarded, it had to be deliberate.
Yes, I know. I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. :)
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know. I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. :)
Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.
Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:18:41 AM
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know. I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. :)
Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.
Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.
Ok, in short just another nut job.
The old TSR IPs are more creative and fresh than anything made since. It's disappointing they've been left to languish in obscurity. "It didn't make enough money back then." "It's too old to bother with." These are all stupid excuses. What else are they gonna do? Make new IPs? Hahaha, yeah right! That's never gonna happen.
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 10:25:01 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:18:41 AM
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know. I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. :)
Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.
Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.
Ok, in short just another nut job.
Probably not.
Just someone too caught up in the Culture War to see the forest for the trees.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 10:33:07 AM
The old TSR IPs are more creative and fresh than anything made since. It's disappointing they've been left to languish in obscurity. "It didn't make enough money back then." "It's too old to bother with." These are all stupid excuses. What else are they gonna do? Make new IPs? Hahaha, yeah right! That's never gonna happen.
I wonder how much of that languishing is coming down from Hasbro. They are sitting on a goldmine of IPs they've done nothing with. And when they tried, they failed. I've spoken to a ton of people that want a new, adult-oriented G.I. Joe show. Something that captures the spirit of the original. But Hasbro will never deliver that. And if they tried, it'd be woke, bait-&-switch trash like every other "revival" show that came out in the last 3 or 4 years.
I think the best we can hope for at this point is for these companies to hemorrhage enough money it puts them into liquidation. Then hopefully someone with some brains buys the IPs.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:36:40 AM
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 10:25:01 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:18:41 AM
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know. I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. :)
Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.
Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.
Ok, in short just another nut job.
Probably not.
Just someone too caught up in the Culture War to see the forest for the trees.
guess I'll know for sure when it responds
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 10:33:07 AM
The old TSR IPs are more creative and fresh than anything made since. It's disappointing they've been left to languish in obscurity. "It didn't make enough money back then." "It's too old to bother with." These are all stupid excuses. What else are they gonna do? Make new IPs? Hahaha, yeah right! That's never gonna happen.
I wonder how much of that languishing is coming down from Hasbro. They are sitting on a goldmine of IPs they've done nothing with. And when they tried, they failed. I've spoken to a ton of people that want a new, adult-oriented G.I. Joe show. Something that captures the spirit of the original. But Hasbro will never deliver that. And if they tried, it'd be woke, bait-&-switch trash like every other "revival" show that came out in the last 3 or 4 years.
I think the best we can hope for at this point is for these companies to hemorrhage enough money it puts them into liquidation. Then hopefully someone with some brains buys the IPs.
Only time will tell.
Transformers has an entire multiverse that is just being ignored. Hasbro has an IP perfect for a cinematic multiverse and they're not doing anything with it.
Same for
Magic: The Gathering and
Dungeons & Dragons.
But the D&D movie failed because they were too ambitious. What they should've done was steadily build interest in the brand outside of tabletop gamers by making animated tv shows. Like Critical Role is doing.
Do multiple shows each showcasing different aspects of the D&D multiverse: Planescape, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Birthright, Eberron, Dragonlance, Urban Arcana, etc. Have occasional crossover episodes to build connections between the shows. Then have a mega crossover to cap it.
At the same time, do GI Joe and Transformers shows. Have crossovers. Have crossovers with Urban Arcana and Dark•Matter. Have a mega crossover where the Autobots travel through time to fight the Far Realm or whatever.
Make a Mass Effect-esque space opera crpg using the Star*Drive or Star Frontiers setting. Make a Fallout-esque crpg using the Gamma World setting. Throw in more crossovers with other IPs.
Hasbro owns so many IPs that it's quite frankly dizzying af. They have a finger in pretty much every genre pastiche and no shortage of material to work with. "Nobody knows those obscure IPs!" is a garbage excuse because they can use their better known IPs to sneak in backdoor pilots. They could outright make a Sliders-esque multiverse travel show just to showcase well-known characters visiting their obscure IPs in order to build interest.
"Bubblebee's Adventures in the Multiverse" or something. The premise is that Bumblebee gets lost in Sigil and has to travel through different universes to find his way home. Each episode would introduce a different IP, like Bumblebee helps Drizzt fight Strahd, Bumblebee helps some synner replicants fight Shaper bugs and Artificer robots, Bumblebee meets the Knights of the Round Table in the far future, Bumblebee shows up on the Silver Bell colony right before first contact with the Klicks, Bumblebee fights the Sathar, Bumblebee fights the Knights of Genetic Purity on Gamma Terra, Bumblebee fights fairies in Victorian England, Bumblebee gets lost on a decaying generation ship, Bumblebee helps the Jovian colonies fight for independence, Bumblebee fights werewolves in the Wild West, Bumblebee helps a Rip Van team fight Spanthi Reavers, Bumblebee gets trapped in the DeathNet and must fight his way out, Bumblebee joins a tour band with an orangutan companion, Bumblebee fights the Iron Lords of Jupiter, etc. Those are all premises that have appeared (without Bumblebee) in books published by TSR and WotC or under license to them.
Any other media company would be absolutely salivating over having all these IPs to mine without needing to come up with any new ideas.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
"Nobody knows those obscure IPs!" is a garbage excuse because they can use their better known IPs to sneak in backdoor pilots. They could outright make a Sliders-esque multiverse travel show just to showcase well-known characters visiting their obscure IPs in order to build interest.
Exactly. TSR did this in a limited fashion back in the day by putting a how to guide on integrating Gamma World into a D&D into the AD&D DMG. Same with Boot Hill
At this point WotC owns enough IPs that they could make their own universal rpg (again) by adapting them all to 5e. Pretty much the only genre they haven't pastiched is superheroes, since d20 Spectaculars was canceled due to Mutants & Masterminds getting to market first. But they can do pretty much every other genre between D&D, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, Alternity, Amazing Engine, d20 Modern, those Polyhedron mini-settings, and whatever else I'm forgetting to mention.
When media companies are scrambling to acquire IPs, I don't get why Hasbro is sitting on a goldmine in favor of mobile shovelware. They are in a much better position than Paradox is, that's for sure. Paradox is trying to cash in on the success of Troika's work on Bloodlines, while failing to emulate why people liked Troika's work in the first place. The nitty gritty of the IP is irrelevant, what's important is the character writing and atmosphere. Jeanette Voerman, Phat Larry, Sebastian LaCroix... players connected with the characters. You could reboot the IP from scratch and still be successful with that character writing. Because consumers connect with characters. Nobody gives a flying fuck about lore if they weren't already drawn in by colorful characters. Tabletop gamers who invest in pure settings are an outlier as far as consumers are concerned.
Meanwhile, Hasbro has a dozen incarnations of Bumblebee that can be used to entice fans of Transformers into their obscure IPs. Transformers has been rebooted lots of times and this has allowed writers to refine what worked while discarding what didn't, as opposed to being enslaved to convoluted lore made with no plan in mind. I vastly prefer reboots over nonsensical long-running continuity that the owners don't understand. And with a multiverse you can pay lipservice to the idea that "your favorite continuity still exists".
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 12:09:08 PM
When media companies are scrambling to acquire IPs, I don't get why Hasbro is sitting on a goldmine in favor of mobile shovelware.
I think the answer to that lies within the same reasons they shot themselves in the head ~8 months ago. YOU think logically. Those in charge of WotC don't. Or at least lack the Wis to correctly predict consequences.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
Transformers has an entire multiverse that is just being ignored. Hasbro has an IP perfect for a cinematic multiverse and they're not doing anything with it.
Same for Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.
I'm skeptical if that's a good approach at this particular time. I think the general public are kinda jaded on the whole multiverse thing. Marvel's been milking that shit since End Game, and people are tuning out. It's always a bigger threat and then a BIGGER threat... people are craving a simple street-level conflict again, where the stakes are relateable. Like what Netflix Daredevil brought. I mean, when "the fate of the multiverse is at stake" for the umpteenth time, people check out. It just too big to properly get invested.
Maybe, down the road, they could introduce dimension hopping or something, but I honestly think a grassroots story grounded in something people can relate to is the better starting point.
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 12:09:08 PM
When media companies are scrambling to acquire IPs, I don't get why Hasbro is sitting on a goldmine in favor of mobile shovelware.
I think the answer to that lies within the same reasons they shot themselves in the head ~8 months ago. YOU think logically. Those in charge of WotC don't. Or at least lack the Wis to correctly predict consequences.
You mean the whole OGL fiasco?
Nah, they weren't being stupid, just short-sighted. Knowing what we know now, with the direction they want to take OneDnD, it seems obvious they were only trying to secure the rights to their digital marketplace. It's why they finally relented and released the SRD5 to the public, but are otherwise going forward with the NuOGL. Their failure will be thinking they can successful monetize DnD in the way that they hope.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 01:04:02 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
Transformers has an entire multiverse that is just being ignored. Hasbro has an IP perfect for a cinematic multiverse and they're not doing anything with it.
Same for Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.
I'm skeptical if that's a good approach at this particular time. I think the general public are kinda jaded on the whole multiverse thing. Marvel's been milking that shit since End Game, and people are tuning out. It's always a bigger threat and then a BIGGER threat... people are craving a simple street-level conflict again, where the stakes are relateable. Like what Netflix Daredevil brought. I mean, when "the fate of the multiverse is at stake" for the umpteenth time, people check out. It just too big to properly get invested.
Maybe, down the road, they could introduce dimension hopping or something, but I honestly think a grassroots story grounded in something people can relate to is the better starting point.
Yeah, that's an issue. Which is why I wouldn't introduce multiverse-level threats or up the stakes at any point. These would be crossovers intended purely to advertise these IPs. I'm not gonna have Optimus Prime and Drizzt team up to fight the Dimensional Armageddon from d20 Future. I'd have Optimus and Drizzt team up to fight Megatron and Strahd. Or any other alliance of good versus an alliance of evil. Like that time when the power rangers fought an alliance of all their previous villains.
And Sliders was originally about 'verses of the week before the multiverse war storyline took over and killed it. You can totally use the multiverse without a multiverse war. That's the entire premise of Planescape. It's simply an opportunity to throw characters into any imaginable scenario for an episode without worrying about prior continuity.
Bumblebee visiting portals across Sigil a la Sliders won't turn into a multiverse war unless you force it to. And you have the Lady of Pain around to keep things from getting out of hand. Not only can she maze or eviscerate anything that enters Sigil, she can arbitrarily control the portals. If a horde of Klicks, Spanthi, or Terrorcons come through a portal, then she immediately closes it and mazes the invaders. You can use her as a
deus ex machina to dispose of the villain of the week this way.
Yeah, Sigil acting as Bumblebee's homebase removes the constant uncertainty that Sliders has, but he's also a heroic autobot. If he encounters problems on these worlds, then he's compelled to do something about it.
If WOTC replaced Modrons with Transformers and converted The Great Modron March with that in mind i would break my boycott and buy it. That sounds utterly bonkers and amazing.
Money is safe though as we all know it will never happen.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 01:27:19 PM
Bumblebee visiting portals across Sigil a la Sliders won't turn into a multiverse war unless you force it to. And you have the Lady of Pain around to keep things from getting out of hand. Not only can she maze or eviscerate anything that enters Sigil, she can arbitrarily control the portals. If a horde of Klicks, Spanthi, or Terrorcons come through a portal, then she immediately closes it and mazes the invaders. You can use her as a deus ex machina to dispose of the villain of the week this way.
Yeah, Sigil acting as Bumblebee's homebase removes the constant uncertainty that Sliders has, but he's also a heroic autobot. If he encounters problems on these worlds, then he's compelled to do something about it.
The geek in me is amused by this idea, especially if the show didn't really take itself too seriously. If it poked fun at multiverse stories, it might just be schlocky enough to work. However, the cynic (or realist) in me doubts it will have any mass appeal. The truth is, very few people outside of a handful of grognards even know what these franchises are. The OG Transformer fans just want freshened up G1; they'd scoff at this show. Even some old school gamers might get turned off, wondering why they didn't just make a show set in X world.
I mean, if the goal to is ignite interest in these old IPs in anticipation of a relaunched game, having Bumblebee be the hero-the-week is probably the worst way to do it. No offense, it's just that the takeaway from the show would seem to be that the heroes of these worlds are so ineffective, they need a giant yellow robot to save them.
Before Disney bought them, the MCU had an effective game plan: they introduced characters one at a time, got audiences invested, and THEN brought them all together. I would posit that a similar approach would be needed if Hasbro (or whoever) wanted to reboot these old IPs.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 01:27:19 PM
Bumblebee visiting portals across Sigil a la Sliders won't turn into a multiverse war unless you force it to. And you have the Lady of Pain around to keep things from getting out of hand. Not only can she maze or eviscerate anything that enters Sigil, she can arbitrarily control the portals. If a horde of Klicks, Spanthi, or Terrorcons come through a portal, then she immediately closes it and mazes the invaders. You can use her as a deus ex machina to dispose of the villain of the week this way.
Yeah, Sigil acting as Bumblebee's homebase removes the constant uncertainty that Sliders has, but he's also a heroic autobot. If he encounters problems on these worlds, then he's compelled to do something about it.
The geek in me is amused by this idea, especially if the show didn't really take itself too seriously. If it poked fun at multiverse stories, it might just be schlocky enough to work. However, the cynic (or realist) in me doubts it will have any mass appeal. The truth is, very few people outside of a handful of grognards even know what these franchises are. The OG Transformer fans just want freshened up G1; they'd scoff at this show. Even some old school gamers might get turned off, wondering why they didn't just make a show set in X world.
I mean, if the goal to is ignite interest in these old IPs in anticipation of a relaunched game, having Bumblebee be the hero-the-week is probably the worst way to do it. No offense, it's just that the takeaway from the show would seem to be that the heroes of these worlds are so ineffective, they need a giant yellow robot to save them.
Before Disney bought them, the MCU had an effective game plan: they introduced characters one at a time, got audiences invested, and THEN brought them all together. I would posit that a similar approach would be needed if Hasbro (or whoever) wanted to reboot these old IPs.
The problem is that most of these IPs don't have characters. They're rpg settings that you're supposed to play in. That's why my pitch is to make 20 minute adverts with Bumblebee thrown in justify it to the executives.
Honestly I think Hasbro should get fucked and lose the rights, because they're never doing anything with it. I was just spitballing.
In the absence of any reforms to copyright law that release abandoned IPs into the public domain so that fans can keep them alive, the only option is to make your own IPs recapturing the magic of those dead ones.
The trademarks are probably expired anyway.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 02:38:54 PM
The problem is that most of these IPs don't have characters. They're rpg settings that you're supposed to play in. That's why my pitch is to make 20 minute adverts with Bumblebee thrown in justify it to the executives.
But if you're going to reboot the IP to be compatible with 5e, then you can always just create a few iconic characters. This is where an animated show can tie-in. Make a film or 4-5 episode series introducing some charismatic and likeable protagonists, then release it to coincide with the game's release. The show might detail the events leading up to the start of the game's timeline, so players who watched the show can then feel like they are continuing the saga.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 01:04:02 PM
Maybe, down the road, they could introduce dimension hopping or something, but I honestly think a grassroots story grounded in something people can relate to is the better starting point.
An updated game like Top Secret could be good
Quote from: Scooter on August 04, 2023, 05:30:50 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 02, 2023, 10:21:37 PM
One thing I suggest to guys here, most of us will tend towards older and tend to DM. Make it a point to DM at your local hobby shop with a homebrewed 5E.
FAR better yet. Don't run ANY WotC crap. Run PF or C&C or other modern D&D like games.
Pathfinder? That's like saying, "I hate socialism, so I'm going to try out communism instead!" Pathfinder is ground zero of stupid, woke, and derivative, lousy mechanics...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:05:19 PM
Pathfinder? That's like saying, "I hate socialism, so I'm going to try out communism instead!" Pathfinder is ground zero of stupid, woke, and derivative, lousy mechanics...
I don't think you followed my reasoning. I am ONLY talking about the topic of this thread. Which IS: making WotC impoverished. Comprende?
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 11:49:58 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:05:19 PM
Pathfinder? That's like saying, "I hate socialism, so I'm going to try out communism instead!" Pathfinder is ground zero of stupid, woke, and derivative, lousy mechanics...
I don't think you followed my reasoning. I am ONLY talking about the topic of this thread. Which IS: making WotC impoverished. Comprende?
I don't think he cares. Nuance is become unacceptable these days.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 01:22:14 PM
It's why they finally relented and released the SRD5 to the public, but are otherwise going forward with the NuOGL.
The SRD5 wasn't even the one that mattered, it was the 3.0/3.5 SRD that was the important one and they totally succeeded in deflecting attention from that. Everyone seemed content with the outcome.
Quote from: Thor's Nads on August 06, 2023, 04:47:28 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 01:22:14 PM
It's why they finally relented and released the SRD5 to the public, but are otherwise going forward with the NuOGL.
The SRD5 wasn't even the one that mattered, it was the 3.0/3.5 SRD that was the important one and they totally succeeded in deflecting attention from that. Everyone seemed content with the outcome.
Yes, but fortunately the 3.x SRD cannot be f'ed with and Hasbro knew it originally. They just tried to buffalo people.
Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 11:49:58 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:05:19 PM
Pathfinder? That's like saying, "I hate socialism, so I'm going to try out communism instead!" Pathfinder is ground zero of stupid, woke, and derivative, lousy mechanics...
I don't think you followed my reasoning. I am ONLY talking about the topic of this thread. Which IS: making WotC impoverished. Comprende?
Why are we "impoverishing WotC" in the first place? And might Paizo deserve it just as much? Most folks can hold more than one idea in their head at a time. Comprende?
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:59:28 AM
Why are we "impoverishing WotC" in the first place? And might Paizo deserve it just as much? Most folks can hold more than one idea in their head at a time. Comprende?
Pay attention to what they [WotC] did over the last 9 months or so. What did Paizo do to deserve what WotC is getting?
One more intentionally obtuse question and to the ignore list you go. Trolling indicates a mental illness.
Quote from: Scooter on August 06, 2023, 10:24:49 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 09:59:28 AM
Why are we "impoverishing WotC" in the first place? And might Paizo deserve it just as much? Most folks can hold more than one idea in their head at a time. Comprende?
Pay attention to what they [WotC] did over the last 9 months or so. What did Paizo do to deserve what WotC is getting?
One more intentionally obtuse question and to the ignore list you go. Trolling indicates a mental illness.
WotC did it over 9 months. Paizo's been doing it for decades. It adds up.
P.S. Don't do me no favors...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:30:45 AM
WotC did it over 9 months. Paizo's been doing it for decades. It adds up.
P.S. Don't do me no favors...
Paizo threatened to illegally pull a permanent license and thus steal money from content creators? Proof or admit you are a liar.
Quote from: Scooter on August 06, 2023, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 06, 2023, 11:30:45 AM
WotC did it over 9 months. Paizo's been doing it for decades. It adds up.
P.S. Don't do me no favors...
Paizo threatened to illegally pull a permanent license and thus steal money from content creators? Proof or admit you are a liar.
While not to the extreme of WotC, Paizo has been accused of similar:
https://www.runamokgames.com/design-diary/paizo-updates-the-cup
You can jump to the top, or you can take one step at a time. They both get you there. Paizo has been obnoxiously woke for way longer. Hasbro is just more quickly diabolical...
Just let the SJWs and BrOSR fight it out. Then the winner gets the hammer ;)
Quote from: Theory of Games on August 07, 2023, 09:44:20 PM
Just let the SJWs and BrOSR fight it out. Then the winner gets the hammer ;)
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FsaBSB0wNTgEU0%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=b34f1da8e7e546517a1bdb6277beb43ac7a17417d33a270ba954b84a29f559e3&ipo=images)
Quote from: Scooter on August 06, 2023, 08:39:40 AM
Yes, but fortunately the 3.x SRD cannot be f'ed with and Hasbro knew it originally. They just tried to buffalo people.
I thought the whole fiasco showed how precarious the 3.x SRD was, and how easily it could be rescinded once WotC decided to end it?
Quote from: Thor's Nads on August 08, 2023, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 06, 2023, 08:39:40 AM
Yes, but fortunately the 3.x SRD cannot be f'ed with and Hasbro knew it originally. They just tried to buffalo people.
I thought the whole fiasco showed how precarious the 3.x SRD was, and how easily it could be rescinded once WotC decided to end it?
Nope. Exactly the opposite since the SRD is almost entirely game mechanics which they can't own and license in the first place. It was a real "The emperor has no clothes moment". For example the game I mostly play, C&C used the license (and SRD stuff) but using the SRD mechanics resulted in no real WotC I.P. being used. Thus no license needed in the first place. The next printing of their PHB, Monsters and GM type books are going to be printed without the OGL license in the book without changes except for maybe one or two proper noun changes.
In reality you CAN make 5E compatible material with no license needed and you can even put on it that it is designed to be used with 5E and there is nothing WotC can do. As long as you stick to only the mechanics and no I.P. names like Tiefling and the like.
In my opinion the RPG community should push WotC to release their older stuff as Creative Commons. If Dark Sun is problematic then release the thing for others for example. Might create small ecosystems.
Quote from: Ruprecht on August 10, 2023, 07:28:38 PM
In my opinion the RPG community should push WotC to release their older stuff as Creative Commons. If Dark Sun is problematic then release the thing for others for example. Might create small ecosystems.
I'd sooner expect a copyright reform to be legislated.
Quote from: Ruprecht on August 10, 2023, 07:28:38 PM
In my opinion the RPG community should push WotC to release their older stuff as Creative Commons. If Dark Sun is problematic then release the thing for others for example. Might create small ecosystems.
We should let WotC shit themselves as everyone leaves their brand and settings behind. Everyone then puts their money and resources behind settings and systems that actual RPG enthusiasts create independently, and do BETTER than WotC does, and stop giving their time, money and emotional energy to the shitshow that is WotC and Paizo and any other form of modern D&D as a brand or entity.
Demanding anything of WotC is just asking for more shit-crumbs from their table. Fuuuuuck them.
*with the caveat that anyone financially invested in their back-catalog under the SRD should protect themselves and their IP's. Otherwise people should WALK AWAY. It costs you nothing. Create the new TTRPG scene at your respective tables with people that give a shit.
Quote from: tenbones on August 12, 2023, 11:33:42 AM
We should let WotC shit themselves as everyone leaves their brand and settings behind. Everyone then puts their money and resources behind settings and systems that actual RPG enthusiasts create independently, and do BETTER than WotC does,
Basically yes. I don't comprehend the mindset that would allow a person continue to support WotC
The VAST majority of TTRPG gamers are completely and utterly oblivious to WTF WotKKK has done. It's only a small subset of uber nerds on the internet who are even aware of any of this, and an even smaller subset of those people who are invested enough on boycotting WotKKK, and take their antics personally due to politics. And none of those people (i.e. "us") matter, because we'll never be a large enough segment of their market to make a dent, and we've already been busy for years NOT buying anything from WotKKK for them to notice.
This are just yells on a vacuum as far as WotKKK is concerned.
WotC is going all in on mobile gaming. This is gonna leave the traditional tabletop community without anything to buy. So Paizo is poised to dominate the market if they don't mess up.
Alternately, it might fracture the market in a way that's not been seen before.
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 12, 2023, 01:56:44 PM
The VAST majority of TTRPG gamers are completely and utterly oblivious to WTF WotKKK has done. It's only a small subset of uber nerds on the internet who are even aware of any of this,
I don't think so. At the time I was not active on any boards and had zero attention of WotC as I haven't used their products for years. I heard about it tangentially from a person who also doesn't play D&D. After a month I heard it from everyone I know who uses their products or plays TTRPGs