I'm not versed at all in cyberpunk or sci-fi games but Shadowrun 5E is so poorly organized and such a clusterfuck that I cannot ever imagine messing with it again and 6E has not done anything to resolve these issues and just shuffled them around so I'm looking for outside sources. I like the setting and the lore and how it all works but I imagine by now someone else has made a ruleset that can handle that, without being rules lite or too generic, I just don't know about it. Something less of a mess than 5E but also not a 20 page Drivethru publication about narrative roleplay with your mom, looking for a good goldilocks zone type of game to look into.
You should check out Sprawlrunners for Savage Worlds Adventure Edition, which is definitely not a narrative game. I'd classify it as medium crunch.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/334278/Sprawlrunners
Quote from: kreegan on November 29, 2020, 09:26:01 AM
You should check out Sprawlrunners for Savage Worlds Adventure Edition, which is definitely not a narrative game. I'd classify it as medium crunch.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/334278/Sprawlrunners
Savage Worlds is the system which can do any setting pretty darned okay IMO. It's not an amazing fit for cyberpunk, but it'd certainly work - and far smoother than the Shadowrun mechanics.
I have been thinking of using Mythras to play a Shadowrun campaign.
I have developed some hacking rules and I'd use the weapons and vehicles rules in After the Vampire Wars:
https://elruneblog.blogspot.com/2018/04/review-of-after-vampire-wars.html (https://elruneblog.blogspot.com/2018/04/review-of-after-vampire-wars.html) :)
Quote from: BugbearBrigand on November 29, 2020, 08:09:45 AM
I'm not versed at all in cyberpunk or sci-fi games but Shadowrun 5E is so poorly organized and such a clusterfuck that I cannot ever imagine messing with it again and 6E has not done anything to resolve these issues and just shuffled them around so I'm looking for outside sources. I like the setting and the lore and how it all works but I imagine by now someone else has made a ruleset that can handle that, without being rules lite or too generic, I just don't know about it. Something less of a mess than 5E but also not a 20 page Drivethru publication about narrative roleplay with your mom, looking for a good goldilocks zone type of game to look into.
Less of a mess then 5th ed but able to do Shadowrun...have you tried:
Shadowrun 1st ed/Shadowrun 2nd ed/Shadowrun 3rd ed - all three using the same core system as each other and convertible on the fly from one to the next.
or how about Shadowrun 4th ed - same core rule as 5th but much better edited.
Hero System (my go to system) or Gurps would both be worthwhile in this context.
If you don't mind the dice system, Gensys has a rather flexible magic system that is based on spellcasting causing Strain (basically Drain from Shadowrun) and they have a Shadow of the Beanstalk setting book that adds in the cyberpunk elements. A little homebrew here and there can improve the overall fit.
I'm on mobile so multiquoting is a chore but Savage World's and Genesys are lighter on crunch then I am personally a fan of but I have also only flipped through them at a glance so I could be wrong but they seem substantially more narrativist then Shadowrun proper is; I will say I don't know anything about 4E so I might look into that since my biggest issue is the rules bloat and that it's basically impossible to find anything because of how poorly it's edited and arranged (a cardinal sin in my opinion for any system.)
Another vote for HERO (currently in 6th Edition). It's power friendly and can handle the setting easily.
Quote from: BugbearBrigand on November 29, 2020, 11:29:24 PM
I'm on mobile so multiquoting is a chore but Savage World's and Genesys are lighter on crunch then I am personally a fan of but I have also only flipped through them at a glance so I could be wrong but they seem substantially more narrativist then Shadowrun proper is; I will say I don't know anything about 4E so I might look into that since my biggest issue is the rules bloat and that it's basically impossible to find anything because of how poorly it's edited and arranged (a cardinal sin in my opinion for any system.)
On Savage Worlds
Our group treats bennies as purely a luck mechanic. We rarely give out bennies for "good RP" or other storygame reasons and the system works fine. The SWADE rules that everyone gets a benny when jokers are dealt to your side of combat gives everyone enough by itself.
Savage Worlds is fairly crunchy, if that isn't enough then you are looking at GURPS or HERO.
Cyberpunk 2020 is the obvious choice but ICE's Cyberspace + MERP would do the trick. You could, of course, go with Space Master Privateers + Rolemaster Standard System but you'd need Weapons Law Firearms for the guns.
Get Nights Edge which was a techno-horror/supernatural setting for Cyberpunk 2020.
There is already a much lighter official alt ruleset that is WAY less a cluster than the regular 5e or 6e rules. It is called Shadowrun Anarchy. It is not bad at all. https://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Anarchy-Catalyst-Game-Labs/dp/1941582192/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Shadowrun+Anarchy&qid=1606899297&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Anarchy-Catalyst-Game-Labs/dp/1941582192/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Shadowrun+Anarchy&qid=1606899297&sr=8-1)
I also Kickstarted Lowlife 2090 and it is awesome. The backers just received the preview PDF last night. It uses the same system as Low Fantasy Gaming, which is an OGL D20 variant. It is basically Shadowrun with a few extras and the serial numbers filed off. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lowfantasygaming/lowlife-2090/description (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lowfantasygaming/lowlife-2090/description)
Quote from: kreegan on November 29, 2020, 09:26:01 AM
You should check out Sprawlrunners for Savage Worlds Adventure Edition, which is definitely not a narrative game. I'd classify it as medium crunch.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/334278/Sprawlrunners
Savage Worlds is a pretty good system for Shadowrun. Im running a campaign doing just that. IT's easy to get about 80-90% of the feel for the game. All without the terrible mechanics of SR5.
Quote from: Batjon on December 02, 2020, 03:56:31 AM
There is already a much lighter official alt ruleset that is WAY less a cluster than the regular 5e or 6e rules. It is called Shadowrun Anarchy. It is not bad at all.
I also Kickstarted Lowlife 2090 and it is awesome. The backers just received the preview PDF last night. It uses the same system as Low Fantasy Gaming, which is an OGL D20 variant. It is basically Shadowrun with a few extras and the serial numbers filed off.
Anarchy is OK. I tried that before changing over to Savage Worlds. Anarchy however suffers from dice bloat almost as bad as other versions of SR. When I used it, I quickly changed from a fist full of D6s to a stat+skill+D10 opposed rolls similar to CP2020. I then shifted to Savage worlds, because a friend in the group wanted to GM his own game, and since we have some very casual/newbie players in both campaigns, decided to use one rule system. TBH, I wish I had not changed over from my house ruled version.
I'm reading through Genesys/Shadows of the Beanstalk/MegaCity Magic and it looks pretty solid so far. But it's a big investment for books and dice (I have buckets of FFG Star Wars rpg dice) so not sure if its good based on budgetary reasons.
ShadowRun end of 2nd/start of 3rd is the way to go.
For adopting other systems, you will have to create an interaction between technological level and Magic that impacts on an individual level (which was part of the Essence mechanic). Tech and Magic oppose each other.
Ex. In these versions of SR, healing magic is more effective the less cybernetic implants you have.
Most other games are not going to have that sort of thing "baked-in" to the rules set, but it is important to justify the setting fluff and maintain the contrast, otherwise every character will be walking around Wired 3 and throwing Mana Bolts everywhere.
FWIW, SR is not a class-based system, either. There are templates for character creation, IF you want to use them, but that is it.
Quote from: Two Crows on December 20, 2020, 05:15:22 PM
There are templates for character creation, IF you want to use them, but that is it.
In the earliest editions, these came in pages that fell out of the book after a short run of use.