I come up with many ideas. I don't know why, that's just who I am. Unfortunately realising these and making them credible is an entirely different matter.
I am compelled to attempt to create a game. I don't know why, and I don't know how I'm going to do that. But the compulsion is there. It's part system monkey (I like coming up with funky simple mechanics) and part world creator (I like the idea of creating my own little world). But making this all work is an utter nightmare, even then the compulsion remains - haunting me!
It seems that rpgs and rpg design is inherently schizoid and contradictory. People claim they want innovation, but then something that is innovative gets crticised because it's not convenient or, more likley, familiar. Beyond that there is a glut of systems out there all designed to facilitate anything I could create.
Recently we've had Traveller and Starblazer as nothing more than generic sfrpg's - so why bother trying to pen a new sfrpg when these have been fairly well received. The same can be said for all genres really.
Beyond that people want the familiar, which is why D&D (an ever convoluted mess produced by a terrible company) is still so popular, but at the same time when someone creates that it's criticised as being, to put it kindly, a heartbreaker. Yet when someone creates somethign truly unique it's either convoluted, boring or unplayable. Not many people really want to learn an alien language and read thousands of years of fictitious history.
And yet the compulsion remains. I've got all sorts of half baked concepts. I could reel off a ton of names and ideas here, yet giving life to them as a functional rpg setting or game is something entirely different. I don't want to write a novel either. Trying to create something that has depth in the sense of a setting that serves the purpose of being an RPG setting (not a work of fiction, and yet just that) is the impossible dream I cannot abandon.
That is all.
I am the same but different.
I get a great idea for a game I bang out 80% of it in a week. New system new rules. I playtest it a few times , in a couple of cases plying it exclusively for upto a year but i never finish it.
But for me its never about the setting, the genre yes but not the setting. Mechanics I love tweaking with. How to emulate this how to do this elegantly? how to take that idea over there and combine with this idea? What is hte minimum number of attributes you need? Can I summarise the core rule in a paragraph?
However I would quite like to write a novel. Started a few , all of them shit.
I'm using NANOWRIMO to try and get a novel done. I don't know if it is as good as I would like. I've always received compliments on my novel attempts. From some pretty harsh people-my friends. (At least some of them.)
I write games too--I'm not fast at the latter. I write, revise, revise, revise, playtest, repeat from the beginning. Until I am happy that the game fits the genre well. Genre is more important to setting to me, because if someone doesn't like my setting specifics they can still ditch it and play a game using the rules in the same "vein" as my game setting. I like to encourage that actually.
Does the world need YOUR game? Who cares, you may need it. That is important to me. A game written for your needs, may be awesome for my needs too--but the only person you ever have to prove anything to? Is yourself. (You should always do your best of course. Just that others judgment should weigh less over all.)
It is nice when doing that works out for others in a positive way.
Write! Make stuff you like. The rest will come, or won't, but you'll have done something no one but you could have done.
Quote from: Silverlion;342445I'm using NANOWRIMO to try and get a novel done. I don't know if it is as good as I would like. I've always received compliments on my novel attempts. From some pretty harsh people-my friends. (At least some of them.)
I write games too--I'm not fast at the latter. I write, revise, revise, revise, playtest, repeat from the beginning. Until I am happy that the game fits the genre well. Genre is more important to setting to me, because if someone doesn't like my setting specifics they can still ditch it and play a game using the rules in the same "vein" as my game setting. I like to encourage that actually.
Does the world need YOUR game? Who cares, you may need it. That is important to me. A game written for your needs, may be awesome for my needs too--but the only person you ever have to prove anything to? Is yourself. (You should always do your best of course. Just that others judgment should weigh less over all.)
It is nice when doing that works out for others in a positive way.
Write! Make stuff you like. The rest will come, or won't, but you'll have done something no one but you could have done.
But that's the problem, the rest doesn't come. Coming up with concepts is one thing; realizing them as a gameable premise/setting is something else entirely. It's not even about pandering to the masses (well rpg.net, I suppose :D) it's about getting something complete. It doesn't help that I'm also drawn to melding genres/tropes together, though fuck knows why.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342446But that's the problem, the rest doesn't come. Coming up with concepts is one thing; realizing them as a gameable premise/setting is something else entirely. It's not even about pandering to the masses (well rpg.net, I suppose :D) it's about getting something complete. It doesn't help that I'm also drawn to melding genres/tropes together, though fuck knows why.
Well chuck us a melded trope/genre and we can brainstorm :)
Ghost, one way to get ideas kick-started into a project is to collaborate with some other smart people. Start shopping your idea as a concrete proposal with smart people you trust and see if you can get one or two of those who love to get to production rather than just chat about dice mechanisms.
Why don't you read some short rpg's available on pdf especially the free ones that are out there floating around on Game Chef and 1km1kt. I wrote a very large game and having done that I don't want to do it again for two reasons. The first is that it is very, very time consuming and you wrestle with the doubt that you can complete the thing. The second reason is that I myself now tend to appreciate more succinct accessible games that are easily digested.
So my advice would be to model your design on something like Kill Puppies For Satan and restrict yourself to under 50 pages or less if you like. Think direct and elegant rather than a comprehensive tome featuring 50 races, 200 magical items and you may feel encouraged rather than deflated.
Quote from: Halfjack;342469Ghost, one way to get ideas kick-started into a project is to collaborate with some other smart people. Start shopping your idea as a concrete proposal with smart people you trust and see if you can get one or two of those who love to get to production rather than just chat about dice mechanisms.
This! I collaborate a lot, and it works wonderfully! As Halfjack says, you need respect and trust, but with these people, synergies can happen!
-clash
Sounds like you have something of a similar problem to me; I have really cool, far-out ideas for settings and such, that are apparently shit for actual gaming. Might make interesting novels, but I have FAR too much ADD for that. The best I ever managed was some G:T stuff for the Journal and a couple books, and even that was 7+ years ago.
So, what I did was fully embrace the tropes and stereotypes of a particular genre. Instead of coming up with orc-analogs, I use the most over-the-top orky-orcs you can imagine. Elves as aloof prigs in the woods? Mine will kill you for daring to look at them the wrong way - which is usually at all. Dungeons? Pfeh - underground cities.
Basically, take the well-establised, cliche'd ideas and crank them up to 10. I'd say 11, but that's over-used.
Most recent example; the Star Wars campaign that kicks off in a couple of weeks is about a sect of Sith from outside the galaxy returning to overthrow the pretender Palpatine. Probably by helping the Rebels. So I have Sith, helping Rebels, beat Sith, and then probably try to take over themselves. Except nobody knows they're Sith. I expect more than a few planets to go up in flames before its over.
Another big advantage to this is that you don't have to spend hours and days trying to introduce new concepts, races, religions, empires, etc to players who probably would be just as happy fighting orcs and swinging lightsabres. There's a reason that McDonald's sells more food than L'Tour d'Agent. Cheap, easy, fast, somewhat tasty, and easy to "get". Plus you don't have to go to France to eat there.
Quote from: Cold Blooded Games;342474Why don't you read some short rpg's available on pdf especially the free ones that are out there floating around on Game Chef and 1km1kt. I wrote a very large game and having done that I don't want to do it again for two reasons. The first is that it is very, very time consuming and you wrestle with the doubt that you can complete the thing. The second reason is that I myself now tend to appreciate more succinct accessible games that are easily digested.
So my advice would be to model your design on something like Kill Puppies For Satan and restrict yourself to under 50 pages or less if you like. Think direct and elegant rather than a comprehensive tome featuring 50 races, 200 magical items and you may feel encouraged rather than deflated.
This is totally true. The game I just finished is almost 400 pages long. It is a lot of fun, but, I never want to do it again. I think you can make something that will be a lot of fun and fit it into a smaller book. We used to play ninjas and superspies for years, and we never used half of the stuff in it.
Story of my fucking worthless life, man, which is to say on this, I feel some genuine sympathy for you, because I know how it feels. I have countless cool ideas for all manner of fields of interest, and none of them ever see the light of day, either because of a failure of drive, or lack of skill and knowhow.
It's even worse with the whole "Song in the Dark" thing. It's just that one core idea, that so far I've managed to fail to implement time and time again through countless revisions. I've pissed away almost every bit of public interest the project ever had, through this constant cycle of spurts of excited activity, followed by distraction and abandonment for sometimes years at a time.
Frankly, I'm starting to think it's the result of some genuine psychological issue, this perpetual failure of will. Whatever my damn problem is, I wish I could get the hell over it and just get something out right now, because I could really use the extra cash, even if it was mostly from pity buys from online friends.
Quote from: J Arcane;342499It's even worse with the whole "Song in the Dark" thing. It's just that one core idea, that so far I've managed to fail to implement time and time again through countless revisions. I've pissed away almost every bit of public interest the project ever had, through this constant cycle of spurts of excited activity, followed by distraction and abandonment for sometimes years at a time.
Actually I was hoping you would just continue even if just sporadically. I got a hard copy (somewhere) of all your posts on the setting/system which I intend to mash with
The Morrow Project. (Of course it was a published book, that would be sweet)
Regards,
David R
Quote from: jibbajibba;342447Well chuck us a melded trope/genre and we can brainstorm :)
shit, called my bluff now! :D
Can't bloody think of anything now.
I tend to come up with concepts based on words and phrases that sound cool. I had some ideas, thus, for something in a post apocalyptical S&S (perhaps even sword & planet) setting. I may even have posted them before:
A race of sentient apes called Ongaro.
savage world style post technology dinosaurs called Dieselsaurs originating from places known as Genesis Pits.
A culture of physical perfection based on a drug called Soma known as the Tiger Alliance, from their capital, Tigerstan. Their people (the pc type) are a cross between Dhalsim and Mad Max.
Evil snake people as per the S&S staple at war with an arrogant culture of winged fairly advanced people known as Hawklites.
***
I've also toyed with a superhero horror type game (marvel horror mythology, nocturnals etc). Characters would choose an archetype defining their origin:
Hounded by Hell (Ghost Rider)
Damned by Day (Dracula)
Son of Strange (Blackheart or Dr Strange)
Born of Beyond (cosmic horror)
Shunned by Science (Frankenstein)(there were more, but i've forgotten them :()
Each archetype had a unique suite of powers, but I got bogged down trying to come up with some kind of 'morality' mechanism. I felt the game needed something like this, but everything seemed to come out like the WoD Humanity mechanism which just traduces everything to some angsfest and takes over the game in a way that detracts from the pulp horror fun.
I have also wrestled with, for many months, an idea based around what I called wuxia space opera, but it either became an exercise in too much chinese mythology or it was just star wars. I'm not sure kung fu wuxia style roleplaying works, it's a purely visual medium really. This, ultimately, I think is why Weapons of the Gods isn't perhaps as succesful as it might be: it's based too much around folk systems (such as the secret arts) and resource management for the kungfu.
***
I've also tinkered with a pulp horror/sf ww2 'weird war' setting as well. But ww2 is so dynamic and daunting a subject to work with I found.
***
and recently i've been tinkering with some ideas for a martial arts/video game style game having played Tekken 6 a lot recently. Here are some ideas for arcetypes based on styles:
World Warriors – King of Tournament edition:
Styles:
Characters are defined by their fighting heritage which informs how they handle themselves as well as what motivates them. Their Style is their outlook on life. What they do with their Style is up to them, but how the player uses it to interact with the setting drives game play.
A Style is measured numerically across a gauge measuring the nature of that interaction. At one end, the character is motivated by Power – a selfish temporal desire. At the other he is motivated by Excellence – altruistically motivated to self improvement for the benefit of all. A character motivated by Power can grow to be more powerful than one whose strives for Excellence, but that power is transient and can only lead to one’s downfall.
Luchador – this is the Mexican style of wrestling. Luchadors are masked combatants who fight with flair and agility. Typically a Luchador is a member of the Libre Temple whose warriors descend from ancient times and have long guarded the forests and jungles of South America from evil. Their masks are sacred and powerful artefacts granting great combat prowess as well as prized anonymity. Modern wrestling masks are pale imitations of these. Most Luchadors prove their worth by carving their own sacred mask as a part of their initiation process.
Fried (Chicken Kung) Fu – more pugilism than precision, it is the martial art style that has evolved in the ghettoes of black America, namely Harlem, from immigrant dojos. Fried Fu (for short) favours power and bling; most fighters gain respect through their material wealth (as a sign of having survived the ghetto) which they draw on instead of chi.
Secret Stilleto Fu – the Sisterhood has long existed to protect the interests of women across the world – by whatever means they can. This is their secret art of fighting and it’s more dangerous against men. It fuses seduction, stealth and knowing an opponent’s weaknesses to use against him. Secret Sisters exist everywhere – some good, some bad. It is thought the organisation was founded in ancient feudal Japan by a covert cabal of Geishas.
Siberian Strongarm Wrestling – this is the opposite of the Luchador style though within the same sport. These techniques are the most powerful fighting techniques in the world, in terms of sheer brute force and require a suitably powerful physique. As such they are slow and those who specialise in Siberian Strongarm (also known as Siberian Bear Baiting) are not known for their agility.
Special Ops – this is the only fighting style that doesn’t penalise the warrior for bearing guns. SpecOps is a military fighting style used almost exclusively by secret agents and speies the world over, regardless of their affiliations and allegiances. It is also similar to Stilleto Fu in its use of guile and subterfuge, combining that with deadly handgun forms.
Shaolin Kung fu – the most enduring and deadly of all the Chinese martial arts; its secrets are guarded in mountain top sanctuaries by ancient monastic traditions. Those who espouse it include movie stars as well as wandering Samaritans seeking enlightenment through their fists.
Tiger Thai Fighting – born out of muay thai boxing skills and infused with the mystical powers of ancient people living in the sacred city of Angkor Wat. Once known as Tigerstan these people were a race of shapeshifters who protected the region and shepherded the early natives.
Gentleman Fists – this is a street fighting style born of boxing and pre-boxing pugilism; it originated in England. Those who practise it value honour and an adherence to fighting etiquette above all else; that is their source of power.
Fist of Tantra – the mystic Indian yogic fighting style taught as a means of both unmatched physical prowess and inner peace. This is the path of the peaceful warrior who must never use his power to start conflict, but finishing it yields great wisdom and power.
-That's about it :D
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342565shit, called my bluff now! :D
Can't bloody think of anything now.
I tend to come up with concepts based on words and phrases that sound cool. I had some ideas, thus, for something in a post apocalyptical S&S (perhaps even sword & planet) setting. I may even have posted them before:
A race of sentient apes called Ongaro.
savage world style post technology dinosaurs called Dieselsaurs originating from places known as Genesis Pits.
A culture of physical perfection based on a drug called Soma known as the Tiger Alliance, from their capital, Tigerstan. Their people (the pc type) are a cross between Dhalsim and Mad Max.
Evil snake people as per the S&S staple at war with an arrogant culture of winged fairly advanced people known as Hawklites.
***
I think this is pretty cool a Gor/John Carter/Planet of the Apes/Flash Gordon style alternate 'earth' with these pockets of population based in different geographies.
How would you like this to ?as a standard 'D&D style' RPG were a group of these creatures from mixed backgrounds get thrown together in a quest or in another way? Through the actual media what normally happens is 'normal' humans from earth get dumped into this world and have to work it out for themselves that is okay for a single game but doesn't merit revisits of course subsequent games could have different starting parameters. Also what would the focus of the game? What you have is an interesting setting but you could probably play it fairly easily with something like Savage Worlds. Would you want to define a quique system or build a Savage World type Mod for this setting? Woudl you focus on combat , exploration, politics? Sounds to me like its probably a combat kind of a game where the PCs end up sided with one population or the other and end up liberating them from one of the others or some such.
For me the key things on this one would be
- What sort of games would you want to play
- What woudl a party look like?
- would you look to create your own system or build a mod round an exisiting generic game (Gurps, d20, Savage Worlds etc) ?
- How would the setting stay alive for the players?
- Is there some setting based plot arc or is it a Sandbox?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342565I've also toyed with a superhero horror type game (marvel horror mythology, nocturnals etc). Characters would choose an archetype defining their origin:
Hounded by Hell (Ghost Rider)
Damned by Day (Dracula)
Son of Strange (Blackheart or Dr Strange)
Born of Beyond (cosmic horror)
Shunned by Science (Frankenstein)
(there were more, but i've forgotten them :()
Each archetype had a unique suite of powers, but I got bogged down trying to come up with some kind of 'morality' mechanism. I felt the game needed something like this, but everything seemed to come out like the WoD Humanity mechanism which just traduces everything to some angsfest and takes over the game in a way that detracts from the pulp horror fun.
I this this would be pretty easy to put together.
- Select an Archetype
- Point buy a base character
- Add a few random elements
- Link the party through antagonism to some powerful external force
Each archetype could actually go beyond its own power and have unique mechanisms. So for example I can a Man Made Horror archetype such as Frankenstein's Monster or a Cyborg actually repair itself from the body parts of fallen opponents. The problem you have is that the WoD does cover a lot of this ground. The morality mechanism is pretty much always going to end up mirroring the WoD model as it is for all its detractors a very elegant solution. You could you a CoC style insanity model but its less satisfactory and looses the idea that at certain levels you get numb to events and actiosn even if they are new to you.
You could push the whole thing really pulpy but then I think you hit Savage worlds again which can cope with a lot of this due to its flexible Powers model (weird Science , Super Powers, Arcane powers all in there)
So here I think as a setting its a good idea as a game i think you can go to exsiting ones.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342565I have also wrestled with, for many months, an idea based around what I called wuxia space opera, but it either became an exercise in too much chinese mythology or it was just star wars. I'm not sure kung fu wuxia style roleplaying works, it's a purely visual medium really. This, ultimately, I think is why Weapons of the Gods isn't perhaps as succesful as it might be: it's based too much around folk systems (such as the secret arts) and resource management for the kungfu.
I think there is actually more legs in this one that some of the others. Its a fresher idea and I think there is room for new mechanics and system that the others may not have.
If you take the Chinese Idea of the Celestial Emperor, the Idea of Spirits (you know the Dog Spirts, Night Spirits and the like that Monkey was always fighting) and super impose it on a Scifi setting.... I think you would end up with an Oriental version of Ulysses 31 the old anime style update to the Oddessy.
So there is an empire except it is run by the Celestial Emperor and there is an area of free space beyond the empire that is home to spirit beings. YOu would need a power like "the Force" but once you shifted it through a lens of Chi I don't think anyone would notice. Set the Empire up as benign but very hierarchical. Set the Spirits up as pure malice, the champions of Entropy and Chaos. You also need a technology reason to limit guns. lasers and blasters. The old Strontium Dog Beam Polariser is one (a magnet that draws all force weapons) or set combat on board ships in space where risk of vaccum breaks calms down arms fire.
They you can play with a system. You would want a combat system that felt unique, cinematic and fun. A lot of time is going to be in combat. I think for real Wuxia fun you would want style to be key so create a Martal art style template on a point model to get ballance with levels in it to get progression. These levels are not characters levels they are levels inside the combat style that give you access to 'special moves' Characters can learn new styles but of course the higher level options are tougher so its a choice.
Just an idea....
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342565and recently i've been tinkering with some ideas for a martial arts/video game style game having played Tekken 6 a lot recently. Here are some ideas for arcetypes based on styles:
World Warriors – King of Tournament edition:
Styles:
Characters are defined by their fighting heritage which informs how they handle themselves as well as what motivates them. Their Style is their outlook on life. What they do with their Style is up to them, but how the player uses it to interact with the setting drives game play.
A Style is measured numerically across a gauge measuring the nature of that interaction. At one end, the character is motivated by Power – a selfish temporal desire. At the other he is motivated by Excellence – altruistically motivated to self improvement for the benefit of all. A character motivated by Power can grow to be more powerful than one whose strives for Excellence, but that power is transient and can only lead to one's downfall.
Luchador – this is the Mexican style of wrestling. Luchadors are masked combatants who fight with flair and agility. Typically a Luchador is a member of the Libre Temple whose warriors descend from ancient times and have long guarded the forests and jungles of South America from evil. Their masks are sacred and powerful artefacts granting great combat prowess as well as prized anonymity. Modern wrestling masks are pale imitations of these. Most Luchadors prove their worth by carving their own sacred mask as a part of their initiation process.
Fried (Chicken Kung) Fu – more pugilism than precision, it is the martial art style that has evolved in the ghettoes of black America, namely Harlem, from immigrant dojos. Fried Fu (for short) favours power and bling; most fighters gain respect through their material wealth (as a sign of having survived the ghetto) which they draw on instead of chi.
Secret Stilleto Fu – the Sisterhood has long existed to protect the interests of women across the world – by whatever means they can. This is their secret art of fighting and it's more dangerous against men. It fuses seduction, stealth and knowing an opponent's weaknesses to use against him. Secret Sisters exist everywhere – some good, some bad. It is thought the organisation was founded in ancient feudal Japan by a covert cabal of Geishas.
Siberian Strongarm Wrestling – this is the opposite of the Luchador style though within the same sport. These techniques are the most powerful fighting techniques in the world, in terms of sheer brute force and require a suitably powerful physique. As such they are slow and those who specialise in Siberian Strongarm (also known as Siberian Bear Baiting) are not known for their agility.
Special Ops – this is the only fighting style that doesn't penalise the warrior for bearing guns. SpecOps is a military fighting style used almost exclusively by secret agents and speies the world over, regardless of their affiliations and allegiances. It is also similar to Stilleto Fu in its use of guile and subterfuge, combining that with deadly handgun forms.
Shaolin Kung fu – the most enduring and deadly of all the Chinese martial arts; its secrets are guarded in mountain top sanctuaries by ancient monastic traditions. Those who espouse it include movie stars as well as wandering Samaritans seeking enlightenment through their fists.
Tiger Thai Fighting – born out of muay thai boxing skills and infused with the mystical powers of ancient people living in the sacred city of Angkor Wat. Once known as Tigerstan these people were a race of shapeshifters who protected the region and shepherded the early natives.
Gentleman Fists – this is a street fighting style born of boxing and pre-boxing pugilism; it originated in England. Those who practise it value honour and an adherence to fighting etiquette above all else; that is their source of power.
Fist of Tantra – the mystic Indian yogic fighting style taught as a means of both unmatched physical prowess and inner peace. This is the path of the peaceful warrior who must never use his power to start conflict, but finishing it yields great wisdom and power.
-That's about it :D
I think the scope here is too narrow for a traditional RPG. You could of course take the combat system you build for the Wuxia Space Opera and just import it here as a arena style game. It might have legs as a CCG though.
You play a fighter of a certain school. 9 is a great number ot start with. Its a head to head elimination game. You start with x life and x Chi you play attack and defense cards that cost Chi and do life damage. Of course you can mix this up in the CCG format easily and have cards that do Chi damage etc etc ...
So each attack needs a base style and your guy has styles you could even allow them to recruit other fighters or have a layer of fighting styles you impose across the fighter models etc etc ...
There have been so many CCGs that have passed without trace that this might even have been done already it seems pretty easy to put together. I woudl not be at all suprised if there isn;t a Streetfighter the CCG out there already.
Well that is my brainstorming done.
You ahve some interesting ideas. I wouldn't get too stressed up about heve getting anythign to market. I think its the norm. For every Richard Garfield there are 100 Dave Garfields.
I'll get back to the ideas at some point Ghost, I just am out of town (with my wife, we're having our "wedding" reception barbecue. Yes we're Texans how could you tell?
However, that's the thing. I'm really good at starting games. I'm really good at finishing games, once I get them to a certain point. It's the middle that takes the longest and hardest, because I want to fix things and fix things and fix things.
Why H&S is out only, but not High Valor. (However, too be fair to myself, I've been done with my part since early this year--and waiting one editing and layout to get done since then.)
My next couple of games that are coming will use different systems, but then I'm revisiting the one of High Valor, and just changing key elements. (High Valor is Dark Age Fantasy, and the system with some ideological changes will work for heroic cyberpunk--as seen in Cold Chrome Knights) there will be differences of course. Faith is less important than gear in cyberpunk for example, and hacking becomes their magic--albeit its mostly internal changes to the person or gear than external effects. Yet the mechanics to a point are the same.
Yet, I keep plugging away, always, adding bits here and there until I will get finished. Eventually.
That's the thing, I do have ADD, and so I bounce around, but I've learned it is important to keep coming back to the original. When I get done with the novel start this month and get it read and feedback going on it, I'm going to turn back on to Derelict Delvers and focus on it until its done, as best I can.
Just remember to do that yourself.
As for genre fusion? I like them sometimes. One of my ideas that's just that at a few notes--Cthulhu Post-apocalypse, and another is Space Opera/Wuxi. The latter is an Empire in space ruled by the Emperor, who is eternal (and may be a Jupiter brain.) Yet can't see or be everywhere, so he creates his hands in the world. Agents to go to the places where the Empire sunders/turns against its the good of the whole (i.e bandits, corrupr officials) and they fly there in their space junks along the Jeweled Road, and use martial arts to kick ass and take names, in very wuxia styles, but with high tech toys..
Quote from: jibbajibba;342581I think the scope here is too narrow for a traditional RPG. You could of course take the combat system you build for the Wuxia Space Opera and just import it here as a arena style game. It might have legs as a CCG though.
You play a fighter of a certain school. 9 is a great number ot start with. Its a head to head elimination game. You start with x life and x Chi you play attack and defense cards that cost Chi and do life damage. Of course you can mix this up in the CCG format easily and have cards that do Chi damage etc etc ...
So each attack needs a base style and your guy has styles you could even allow them to recruit other fighters or have a layer of fighting styles you impose across the fighter models etc etc ...
There have been so many CCGs that have passed without trace that this might even have been done already it seems pretty easy to put together. I woudl not be at all suprised if there isn;t a Streetfighter the CCG out there already.
Well that is my brainstorming done.
You ahve some interesting ideas. I wouldn't get too stressed up about heve getting anythign to market. I think its the norm. For every Richard Garfield there are 100 Dave Garfields.
I want to respond to this specifically before any other post. I'm grateful for all the replies however. I've been playing a lot of Tekken and thus thinking about this idea a lot. I think there are some misconceptions about this kind of game.
A few people have tried desiginging their own video game/martial arts rpg (including WW) and I think the mistake has been to focus on creating a combat game. Thus they have created something with a ton of rules for building martial arts powers. That's not what I would do.
Really this kind of setting is no different to a superhero setting given that it can include all sorts of weird shit: demons, robots, aliens! It's really kitchen sink pulp in many ways and that kind of broad depth of ideas appeals to me because there's always something to do.
Games like Weapons of the Gods and Feng Shui already do this kind of thing: martial arts. FS explicitly states that non-action sequences should be made as short as possible - no scenes spent pontificating on library use rolls. WotG has the structure of the Wulin as the environment within which the players act and they all have superpowers (Lightfoot!) albeit in martial art guise. The only difference is that Johnny Storm shouts 'flame on!' whereas Scorpion shouts 'get over here!' and Guile shouts 'Sonic Boom', stemming from that anime trope of shouting your moves out (which isn't necessary imo). Most characters like this are superhero style characters - singular and evocative monikers with bizarro costumes!
With regard to the tournament environment peculiar to video games I would use that as a metagame. In these games the tournament is the means by which conflict (ie fighting) is resolved and is the process by which the antagonists muse go through n order to take over the world/gain ultimate power (in order
to take over the world. really the tournament is the Wuling - the world of martial arts. In WotG the GM is known as the Wulin Sage - the referree! Players rank up within that world.
So I would treat it as a paradigm - not dissimilar to Mage the Ascension. Basically the Tournament is a simple set of rules that affects all those within it. The adventure ultimately culminates in winning (or perhaps losing) that tournament, at least as part of the current story. The winners then get to change some of those rules. So if the players win, they, as Tournament Champions, may impose a rule whereby next year's antagonists cannot kill their opponents. The rules of this metagame are more powerful than any singular force within and may even be presided over by neutral NPC's like the watchers from Highlander, or even someone like Uatu!
So to summarise I think there's more mileage in this than might appear. Mortal Kombat has a whole clan of robot ninjas never mind the nsane character concepts in Guilty Gear!
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342676So to summarise I think there's more mileage in this than might appear. Mortal Kombat has a whole clan of robot ninjas never mind the nsane character concepts in Guilty Gear!
I think part of the problem is when you strip down fighting games. At best their stories are--- "Sub Par", which is why people focus on the fighting aspect. Because that is where the fighting games focus.
You'd need to give the whole tournament aspect, more meat and substance. The problem with that is it makes for a great single game campaign. (The rise from minor fighter to champion who gains world power.) Yet you need ways to create ongoing conflict that allows for different kinds of stories.
Which means you are left with a superpowered game, where powers are heavily based on a few key concepts--the same concepts found in comic books.
Champiosn 4E--iirc had a "Tournament of the Dragon" adventure, and I'd say Synnibar has a lot of the zany goofy backstory of a fighting game, with none of the ease of play of one (With were-whatever/godling/psimages)
A better confluence of things would be to create rules for building conflict, social and ethical, powerbases, and fighting styles drawn from those powerbases to run a a fighting tourney style game.
Something you could start everywhere down to Viking Honor duels, on up to Knights Jousting, to martial arts conflict at a particular moment.
In my mind--Feng Shui has done this in part. You fight with weird and varied powers of different back stories to control great power--shifting them at any time-juncture, shifts history,
A goal might be to look at Torg, and Feng Shui, and see where the two might create some conceptual basis to build a game of vying for control of power might work--with fighting as a way to control the power.
Quote from: jibbajibba;342574I this this would be pretty easy to put together.
- Select an Archetype
- Point buy a base character
- Add a few random elements
- Link the party through antagonism to some powerful external force
Each archetype could actually go beyond its own power and have unique mechanisms. So for example I can a Man Made Horror archetype such as Frankenstein's Monster or a Cyborg actually repair itself from the body parts of fallen opponents. The problem you have is that the WoD does cover a lot of this ground. The morality mechanism is pretty much always going to end up mirroring the WoD model as it is for all its detractors a very elegant solution. You could you a CoC style insanity model but its less satisfactory and looses the idea that at certain levels you get numb to events and actiosn even if they are new to you.
You could push the whole thing really pulpy but then I think you hit Savage worlds again which can cope with a lot of this due to its flexible Powers model (weird Science , Super Powers, Arcane powers all in there)
So here I think as a setting its a good idea as a game i think you can go to exsiting ones.
It would be played pulpy, but that element of humanity/agngst cannot be ignored. I just wouldn't want a system that either takes over the game (everytime you use a power you make a humanity roll) or becomes redundant, as is the case in Vampire where players never fail their first roll and thus never start down the slippery slope.
There's also another origin archetype I forgot: Revenant of Revenge (more Ghost Rider, or Tombstone from Freedom Force 2)
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342791There's also another origin archetype I forgot: Revenant of Revenge (more Ghost Rider, or Tombstone from Freedom Force 2)
Also Ghost (Dark Horse) was similar, and its not an uncommon trope (The Ghost Cop of Tokyo in Planetary.) Though often revenge is not a narrow element for them. Of course cyborgs might want revenge too.
You might do something like
Archetype: Undead/Animal Person/Cyborg/Ninja. Where the player picks the general tone of their basic abilities.
Motivation: Revenge, Power, Glory, Justice. (Similar to H&S Drive)
Origin: Magic, Technology, Natural Training
Tricks: Their special powers/fighting moves.
You could simpy give a PC a number of dice to spread among each representing their focus. (Similar to Savage Worlds, albeit using these categories for stats rather than the Spirit/Vigor/Agility etc model.)
Something like
Archetype: Animal Person 1d8
Motivation: Justice 1d6,
Origin: Magic 1d4
Tricks (or Fighting Arts): 1d10.
You can roll any two.
So if i wanted to smash a door. My leonine savate master. (Because I like lions and savate) uses his Animal Person 1d8 and his Tricks 1d10 to use a crochet (hook) to smash the door. Another time he needs to climb a building yet this time his foe is on the penthouse floor so seeking justice he rolls 1d6 and Animal Person 1d8 (Claws).
Of course I'm weird and like simple systems that support flexible play.
Quote from: Silverlion;342805Also Ghost (Dark Horse) was similar, and its not an uncommon trope (The Ghost Cop of Tokyo in Planetary.) Though often revenge is not a narrow element for them. Of course cyborgs might want revenge too.
You might do something like
Archetype: Undead/Animal Person/Cyborg/Ninja. Where the player picks the general tone of their basic abilities.
Motivation: Revenge, Power, Glory, Justice. (Similar to H&S Drive)
Origin: Magic, Technology, Natural Training
Tricks: Their special powers/fighting moves.
You could simpy give a PC a number of dice to spread among each representing their focus. (Similar to Savage Worlds, albeit using these categories for stats rather than the Spirit/Vigor/Agility etc model.)
Something like
Archetype: Animal Person 1d8
Motivation: Justice 1d6,
Origin: Magic 1d4
Tricks (or Fighting Arts): 1d10.
You can roll any two.
So if i wanted to smash a door. My leonine savate master. (Because I like lions and savate) uses his Animal Person 1d8 and his Tricks 1d10 to use a crochet (hook) to smash the door. Another time he needs to climb a building yet this time his foe is on the penthouse floor so seeking justice he rolls 1d6 and Animal Person 1d8 (Claws).
Of course I'm weird and like simple systems that support flexible play.
The Revenant of revenge was intended to have investigatory powers as well as powers based on guilt/fear/penance. Within that you could be anything; I woudln't restrict people to actually playing a flaming skulled ghoul. It coudl even encompass batman.
By contrast the Hounded by Hell archetype encompasses more aggressive powers: those based around fire and brimstone, chains, hounds. I even thought about an Aspect type system, but i've yet to make my peace with the whole notion of aspects.
It's conceivable there could be an animalistic archetype, such as
Weird of the Wild. But I wouldn't want too many archetypes (though a system that facilitates people doing their own is entirely fine).
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342807The Revenant of revenge was intended to have investigatory powers as well as powers based on guilt/fear/penance. Within that you could be anything; I woudln't restrict people to actually playing a flaming skulled ghoul. It coudl even encompass batman.
By contrast the Hounded by Hell archetype encompasses more aggressive powers: those based around fire and brimstone, chains, hounds. I even thought about an Aspect type system, but i've yet to make my peace with the whole notion of aspects..
Yeah, I understand. Seriously. Part of the issue for me is despite the idea above. I sometimes like knowing if someone can lift an American Ton. At the same time, the above concept, or ASPECT style system (SOTC ones yes?) Allows the player a bit more leeway in describing how things happen as its prett much necessary to get the effect they want, is drawing a line between "What I have to use.." and "How I do it.."
Quote from: Halfjack;342469Ghost, one way to get ideas kick-started into a project is to collaborate with some other smart people. Start shopping your idea as a concrete proposal with smart people you trust and see if you can get one or two of those who love to get to production rather than just chat about dice mechanisms.
Indeed, a good idea. I've often thought it would be cool to work with an artist who could visualise the ideas I had. I think that would help a lot; a kind of storyboarding approach perhaps.
Quote from: Cold Blooded Games;342474Why don't you read some short rpg's available on pdf especially the free ones that are out there floating around on Game Chef and 1km1kt. I wrote a very large game and having done that I don't want to do it again for two reasons. The first is that it is very, very time consuming and you wrestle with the doubt that you can complete the thing. The second reason is that I myself now tend to appreciate more succinct accessible games that are easily digested.
So my advice would be to model your design on something like Kill Puppies For Satan and restrict yourself to under 50 pages or less if you like. Think direct and elegant rather than a comprehensive tome featuring 50 races, 200 magical items and you may feel encouraged rather than deflated.
I wouldn't want to write a large game, mostly for obvious reasons, anyway. But I think there is a minimum size for the purposes of credibility. For me 1 page isn't enough. I can't get into a game that small.
Quote from: Silverlion;342809Yeah, I understand. Seriously. Part of the issue for me is despite the idea above. I sometimes like knowing if someone can lift an American Ton. At the same time, the above concept, or ASPECT style system (SOTC ones yes?) Allows the player a bit more leeway in describing how things happen as its prett much necessary to get the effect they want, is drawing a line between "What I have to use.." and "How I do it.."
I think I'm going to stick with the horror hero for a while. I like the idea of having few attributes and just making it really rules light.
I came up with a final archetype as well (what I call an Origin, in the Stan Lee presents vibe): Instrument of Immortality - representing everything from vamps to, and especially, mummies.
I figure I'd let the origins dictate the nature of the powers available, as I said. Then players can have a rating in that origin which they can distribute among as many powers as they like. They can come up with their own ideas based on the origin concerned. Either that or I'm going to have to start designing super powers effectively, and that's more work than I care for. It's either really rules lite or encyclopedic detail when it comes to powers like this.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;343065, and that's more work than I care for. It's either really rules lite or encyclopedic detail when it comes to powers like this.
I like rules-light approach myself. Describing what the power does in as plain English as possible. :Yet then I would...:D
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;342442I am compelled to attempt to create a game.
Chiming in late here, but I think I understand what you're saying and I have a similar "problem." I feel compelled to create. Not just roleplaying games--I've written novels and written and published short stories, RPG adventures, supplements, and even two card games. It makes me wonder sometimes if the time I spent doing these things would have been better spent doing something more constructive (like actually making money). I've even said "Okay, I'm done with game writing. There's just not enough payoff* with this," and decided to focus on other things in my life.
And yet inevitably, new ideas creep in. I want to share them. I start thinking of maybe writing a more focused minigame which would not require a ton of effort or cash on my part. Maybe an add-on to an existing game line. I maybe think about buying one or two pieces of art to set the mood but that's all--art is expensive.
I start writing. I start adding to and expanding the basic ideas in the setting. I start revising. I watch a related movie or TV show and see something cool (an idea, NPC, vehicle, etc.) I'd like to incorporate. Before I know it I'm three-quarters of the way into a full-blown setting and I realize I need a more traditional system to make it playable, not to mention more artwork to really help the players envision the setting.
*sigh*
Welcome to
Stormrift: The Invasion of Earth. :)
Pete
*By payoff I don't necessarily mean monetary return--most of the time it's enough just to know people out there are enjoying your game.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;343065I think I'm going to stick with the horror hero for a while.
I'm assuming you've read Marvel Zombies?
I was thinking of the "humanity" mechanic. One idea I had was to grant newer, darker powers with each step down into darkness. That way, each step is more than just a lower number where you have to make a roll, etc.
Assuming you don't want the characters to be corrupt and evil there would also have to be some sort of penalty. This could also be handled numerically or with "good" bonus powers, but it might be more interesting to see it represented socially--maybe something to the effect that once a character starts displaying some evil traits, the people he protects slowly start to turn against him. Police are less friendly, the public becomes more and more scared of him, news agencies report about him in a negative light. No matter how much good he does, no one seems to appreciate it or they look for his ulterior motives.
There would have to be some way to redeem himself of course.
Anyway, just an idea.
Pete
With the aid of Danny Elfman and Amon Tobin, i have been putting some ideas down for this game, which i call Midnight Men.
The basic premise of the mechanics is that players incur Darkness points for using their powers and making use of their supernatural side. There are no weird traits or morality indexes, but powers cannot be used without incurring Darkness.
However, I came up with a damage mechanic that's going to have a very strange probability angle which requires some feedback. The idea is that PC's incur Damage points in return for injury. Inverse hit points, essentially.
PC's can incur these without an upper limit, but each time they are injured, if the GM determines that injury to be life threatening he can ask the player to make a Damage roll. If the pc fails he's basically KO'd (supernatural characters, like good comic book characters, never really die). If he succeeds, he gets up, takes his lumps and gets his breath back.
To make the roll, the player rolls a pool of d6 = to his Damage point total. Each roll of a 6 is set aside and another dice is rolled (and so on). Once the dust settles the result is read as a failure if the player manages to produce at least 3 sixes. Anything else is a success.
Evocative - I think - simple? That's the question.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;343612However, I came up with a damage mechanic that's going to have a very strange probability angle which requires some feedback. The idea is that PC's incur Damage points in return for injury. Inverse hit points, essentially.
PC's can incur these without an upper limit, but each time they are injured, if the GM determines that injury to be life threatening he can ask the player to make a Damage roll. If the pc fails he's basically KO'd (supernatural characters, like good comic book characters, never really die). If he succeeds, he gets up, takes his lumps and gets his breath back.
To make the roll, the player rolls a pool of d6 = to his Damage point total. Each roll of a 6 is set aside and another dice is rolled (and so on). Once the dust settles the result is read as a failure if the player manages to produce at least 3 sixes. Anything else is a success.
Evocative - I think - simple? That's the question.
Interesting. It's passingly similar to a damage system I wrote up ages ago, but with a twist that makes it better. (For a game whose final iteration used some of my material but not the damage system. Ah well :D)
Though I wonder about "GM deciding when to roll" as a thing. Not that I think GM's are evil bad, just is it possible to set some kind of point where a roll is built into the rules? Like "you get hit with a weapon doing more damage than your current damage points?" or "More damage than ability X from your character sheet?"
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;343612With the aid of Danny Elfman and Amon Tobin, i have been putting some ideas down for this game, which i call Midnight Men.
The basic premise of the mechanics is that players incur Darkness points for using their powers and making use of their supernatural side. There are no weird traits or morality indexes, but powers cannot be used without incurring Darkness.
However, I came up with a damage mechanic that's going to have a very strange probability angle which requires some feedback. The idea is that PC's incur Damage points in return for injury. Inverse hit points, essentially.
PC's can incur these without an upper limit, but each time they are injured, if the GM determines that injury to be life threatening he can ask the player to make a Damage roll. If the pc fails he's basically KO'd (supernatural characters, like good comic book characters, never really die). If he succeeds, he gets up, takes his lumps and gets his breath back.
To make the roll, the player rolls a pool of d6 = to his Damage point total. Each roll of a 6 is set aside and another dice is rolled (and so on). Once the dust settles the result is read as a failure if the player manages to produce at least 3 sixes. Anything else is a success.
Evocative - I think - simple? That's the question.
Some things occur to me.
1 - the number '3' sixes might want to be a variable that you could set up to differentiate between characters. DR (damage resistance) of 6 might be your Conan type whilst 2 might be your skinny little wimpy guy.
2 - you have to work out how much damage you are going to be dealing. if a hit can do 1 point of damage this mechanic is fine if a hit does 1d8+2 then you will very rapidly be rolling huge pools of dice
3 - Will you have a healing mechanic that can reduce this damage and if so at what rate?
4 - Would be more effective with those dice that have a skull instead of a 1 then you just count the skulls.
Quote from: jibbajibba;343726Some things occur to me.
1 - the number '3' sixes might want to be a variable that you could set up to differentiate between characters. DR (damage resistance) of 6 might be your Conan type whilst 2 might be your skinny little wimpy guy.
2 - you have to work out how much damage you are going to be dealing. if a hit can do 1 point of damage this mechanic is fine if a hit does 1d8+2 then you will very rapidly be rolling huge pools of dice
3 - Will you have a healing mechanic that can reduce this damage and if so at what rate?
4 - Would be more effective with those dice that have a skull instead of a 1 then you just count the skulls.
tbh it's probably better just to have a fixed point pool or limit. It's not very innovative or imaginative and, more importantly, it's linear, but it works.
The whole point of the 6's was the number of the beast. :D
You died if you rolled 666.
But the idea i think is too random. It's possible that pc's could die at the wrong moment and that I think is just a bad move. Even if it means the opposite is true.
I'm trying to devise rules for manifesting a supernatural appearance - or costume. It isn't just a question of having an alter ego and changing in a phone booth. Characters like Ghost Rider have little control over their transformations etc, so I need some rules to encompass these things while still retaining the option, at least, for characters who do perhaps change in a phone booth (well coffin, perhaps!).
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;343866I'm trying to devise rules for manifesting a supernatural appearance - or costume. It isn't just a question of having an alter ego and changing in a phone booth. Characters like Ghost Rider have little control over their transformations etc, so I need some rules to encompass these things while still retaining the option, at least, for characters who do perhaps change in a phone booth (well coffin, perhaps!).
What about some sort of action? I mean do they need to test to transform, or isn't that going to be GM triggered for the game's progression? After all it be more frustrating than fun if you were stuck in "non-heroic" mode in the game.
It might be interesting to see a PC build up some sort of transformation points through role-playing out the normal scene the player is in--perhaps points that once transformed can double as heroic "luck" points of some kind. So a PC with that limit will work to extend scenes dramatically. "No, not now, I can't, I must not..."
Although it might also be something the player will want to build into--the easier and more controlled the event is the fewer points it is worth in return in play. While the more lengthy/painful/limited it is--the more points it is worth? Just kinda throwing things out there--I'm fond of things like the Demon's transformation for example.
Quote from: Silverlion;343885What about some sort of action? I mean do they need to test to transform, or isn't that going to be GM triggered for the game's progression? After all it be more frustrating than fun if you were stuck in "non-heroic" mode in the game.
Well that is the question!