Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on August 26, 2022, 07:39:16 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 23, 2022, 07:34:32 PM
When you make fun of yourself, you usually have a lot of latitude.  When you make fun of someone else, they're going to have a sense of humor about it until they don't.  When you 'respectfully incorporate your understanding of a culture that you're not a part of' you can really help them have a good time - but you also risk doing something foolish or insulting that you weren't even aware of.  That's a risk you're free to take, especially with your friends, but it's  also a risk that the author shouldn't feel uncomfortable about highlighting.

Fair enough.

But now the designer is calling White people racist if they decide not to take that risk.

In the blog post under discussion, he suggests that if the only reason you're not willing to play this game is because you are uncomfortable imagining yourself as a member of a different race, that's racist.  There's lots of 'good reasons' not to play this game, like not finding the premise or setting interesting.  I don't think playing a character of a different race is racist (at least, not inherently - you can absolutely take it to an extreme that is pretty offensive to some people); I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

That's a lie.

https://coyoteandcrow.net/2022/04/23/an-important-message-from-connor/#more-510

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM
I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

No, it is not. These are roleplaying games. Not wanting to think about these topics on game night does not make a person intolerant.

An example of intolerance would be wanting to control when and what a person thinks, and then labeling them when they resist or fail to comply.

Quote from: FingerRod on August 27, 2022, 08:15:13 AM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM
I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

No, it is not. These are roleplaying games. Not wanting to think about these topics on game night does not make a person intolerant.

An example of intolerance would be wanting to control when and what a person thinks, and then labeling them when they resist or fail to comply.

Oh, kind of like what the author of Coyote and Crow did when trying to shame people into buying his game just to line his pockets even if they don't want to buy it?

Quote from: 3catcircus on August 27, 2022, 08:29:00 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 27, 2022, 08:15:13 AM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM
I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

No, it is not. These are roleplaying games. Not wanting to think about these topics on game night does not make a person intolerant.

An example of intolerance would be wanting to control when and what a person thinks, and then labeling them when they resist or fail to comply.

Oh, kind of like what the author of Coyote and Crow did when trying to shame people into buying his game just to line his pockets even if they don't want to buy it?

How dare you! Coyote and Crow is offering to sell you an indulgence to free your white soul* from Woke Hell!

(*Apparently only white souls suffer from the original sin of being oppressive. However, the Woke can categorize people of Jewish and Asian descent as being white at their convenience.)

Quote from: wmarshal on August 27, 2022, 08:41:05 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on August 27, 2022, 08:29:00 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 27, 2022, 08:15:13 AM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM
I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

No, it is not. These are roleplaying games. Not wanting to think about these topics on game night does not make a person intolerant.

An example of intolerance would be wanting to control when and what a person thinks, and then labeling them when they resist or fail to comply.

Oh, kind of like what the author of Coyote and Crow did when trying to shame people into buying his game just to line his pockets even if they don't want to buy it?

How dare you! Coyote and Crow is offering to sell you an indulgence to free your white soul* from Woke Hell!

(*Apparently only white souls suffer from the original sin of being oppressive. However, the Woke can categorize people of Jewish and Asian descent as being white at their convenience.)

Speaking as a lad who was raised Roman Catholic, yeah, this really DOES stink of indulgences, doesn't it?

Let me go get a list of 95 better games so I can nail it to someone's door.

Quote from: wmarshal on August 27, 2022, 08:41:05 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on August 27, 2022, 08:29:00 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on August 27, 2022, 08:15:13 AM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM
I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

No, it is not. These are roleplaying games. Not wanting to think about these topics on game night does not make a person intolerant.

An example of intolerance would be wanting to control when and what a person thinks, and then labeling them when they resist or fail to comply.

Oh, kind of like what the author of Coyote and Crow did when trying to shame people into buying his game just to line his pockets even if they don't want to buy it?

How dare you! Coyote and Crow is offering to sell you an indulgence to free your white soul* from Woke Hell!

(*Apparently only white souls suffer from the original sin of being oppressive. However, the Woke can categorize people of Jewish and Asian descent as being white at their convenience.)

Inorite...

What a lot of people in the US (and other 1st world Western nations) completely fail to understand is just how non-racist we are as compared to the rest of the world. Going out of your way to proclaim racism when it doesn't actually exist is a 1st world problem.

I saw a recent tweet by an African-American.  It was along the lines of "I own two houses and am a pilot living my dream career; if this is oppression, give me more of it."

When a minority college student or activist claims oppression due to systemic racism, all you have to do to fuck up that world view is point out that if systemic racism actually existed, they never would have been allowed to even apply to college or been allowed up on their soapbox.

Real racism? Ask the hutu and tutsi survivors. Go try and enter a no-gaijin bar or restaurant in Japan. Experience being ignored as the locals skip ahead of you at a deli counter in Seoul. Go try and illegally enter Mexico from Guatemala on your way to illegally enter the US. Go be a Filipino or Bangladeshi worker in Saudi or Qatar.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2022, 08:53:37 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 PM
In the blog post under discussion, he suggests that if the only reason you're not willing to play this game is because you are uncomfortable imagining yourself as a member of a different race, that's racist.  There's lots of 'good reasons' not to play this game, like not finding the premise or setting interesting.  I don't think playing a character of a different race is racist (at least, not inherently - you can absolutely take it to an extreme that is pretty offensive to some people); I think refusing to imagine what it might be like as someone with different life-experiences or skin color does sound a little intolerant.

That's a lie.

Quote from: Connor
Look, if you don't want to play C&C because you're not into science fantasy or you think the rules are too crunchy, or you don't like d12s or alternate history RPGs aren't your thing – go on with your bad self. You do you. But if the only thing holding you back is that don't feel "comfortable" pretending to be a person with browner skin than you? Even when Indigenous folks are literally trying to offer you the game? Then you're the problem. Sort your shit.

I don't think quoting what he actually says makes me a liar.

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 27, 2022, 12:20:33 PMI don't think quoting what he actually says makes me a liar.

Many things makes you a liar. Lies of omission are also lies.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on August 27, 2022, 12:22:49 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 27, 2022, 12:20:33 PMI don't think quoting what he actually says makes me a liar.

Many things makes you a liar. Lies of omission are also lies.

Exactly, cherrypicking a quote and pretending that that's ALL he has said about the game, white people playing it, etc. IS a lie by omission.

So, for those late to the party: The game has several pages about what a white person can or can't do, the woke have created a minefield around playing as someone from a different racew, to the point where you're racist if you do and racist if you don't.

Then, in the exact same post the author says: "WHITE PEOPLE: YOU CAN PLAY COYOTE & CROW

FFS.

Okay, let me get into this. First, if you're concerned that you shouldn't be playing Coyote & Crow, it's likely that you're a white person and you're worried that playing this game constitutes some form of cultural appropriation or that you would somehow misrepresent Indigenous people during your time playing the game.

I get that instinct. It likely comes from the fact that you're trying to be an ally to Indigenous folks, probably to POC in general. You're being "respectful."

Except – you're not. You're not being respectful when you refuse to play Coyote & Crow for that reason. You're not being an ally. You're being a shitty person and frankly, you're being a little racist. Feel free to gasp and fan yourself if you need to. When you've finished, please read on."

Recognizing the existence of said minefield, which would make anyone on his side uncomfortable of playing it. Only to proceed and condemning them for not risking it.

But Wokeman Walking is dead set on pretending this isn't so.

You quoting him saying what I say he's saying just reaffirms what he's saying.  If you don't want to play the game because you're uncomfortable pretending to be a POC he thinks that's racist.  If you don't want to play for any other reason, he doesn't think that is racist. 

So that's what he says at the beginning and at the end.  If your 9th grade English teacher were telling you about an essay they'd day something like 'tell them what you're going to say, then say it, then tell them what you told them'.

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 27, 2022, 03:14:12 PM
You quoting him saying what I say he's saying just reaffirms what he's saying.  If you don't want to play the game because you're uncomfortable pretending to be a POC he thinks that's racist.  If you don't want to play for any other reason, he doesn't think that is racist.

I know it goes against your pretend narrative but he clearly says that if you are concerened about being accused of cutural appropriation that you are being "a little racist". Which is disingenuous since playing a Native American character in ANY OTHER GAME would get you accused of cultural appropriation as I and others have shown.

Of course that racists accusation is on top of the one where you are racists if you don't want to play a Native American character in a game.

Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 27, 2022, 03:14:12 PM
You quoting him saying what I say he's saying just reaffirms what he's saying.  If you don't want to play the game because you're uncomfortable pretending to be a POC he thinks that's racist.  If you don't want to play for any other reason, he doesn't think that is racist. 

So that's what he says at the beginning and at the end.  If your 9th grade English teacher were telling you about an essay they'd day something like 'tell them what you're going to say, then say it, then tell them what you told them'.

Once more because you're a little slow:

You wokescolds have created a minefield around pretending to be someone of a different race while playing elfgames. This is a fact.

The Author has what, 4 pages? of instructions about all the stuff you should avoid and shouldn't do IF you're a white person.

Then, in the same post where he's begging for more white devil's money he recognizes the existence of the minefield.

Only to say that if you don't want to risk stepping into a mine then you're a racist.

Fuck him for being a racist and fuck you for being a disingenuous twat.

Hey GeekyBugle, I'm not trying to tell you what to do but what I do with deadDMwalking is if I see a post by them I don't even read it. I just scroll on past. I've categorized them as one of the few trolls on this site that pretend they're being reasonable but....they're not. Really will help the blood pressure. And while I don't actively want to see them go away it might help them realize that they're really just being contrary because they like the attention they get. Or maybe they do like the attention they get. But it doesn't matter really.

QuoteThe Author has what, 4 pages? of instructions about all the stuff you should avoid and shouldn't do IF you're a white person.

I'm fairly certain this is completely wrong. It's two pages of instructions for indigenous players, then two more for non-indigenous. The four pages is the total amount of instructions for segregating your players.

I'm being sarcastic though. Even a paragraph would have been too much.

And I'll reiterate that I'll never play racistoyte & wokerow, not because I'm afraid of offending someone, but because the premise is racist and good ol white native made sure all white people knew they were racist.