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Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets

Started by wmarshal, August 04, 2022, 10:38:06 PM

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GeekyBugle

Quote from: hedgehobbit on August 05, 2022, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 05, 2022, 02:56:44 AMOn another note, I would LOVE a good game book that went into considerable detail about South American/Mexican culture, religion, mythology, all that good stuff.

Years ago, my mother was an ESL teacher to a group mainly of kids from Central America. She was teaching a mythology class and found her kids weren't that interested in the Greek gods. At the time, I had been reading about Mayans to try and figure out if they really did predict the end of the world (and learned that the end of the world would directly contradicted their world view). So my mom asked me to make some powerpoint slides detailing all the various gods and stuff found in Mayan legends (such as the Hunahpu twins). After the class, my mom reported that all the kids were amazed that these things existed as they had never heard of them before.

It was kind of dishearting to learn how much of that culture had been discarded. I would also like to see a fantasy RPG based on a suitably heroic fantasy version Mayan history.

Maybe I can convince my daughter to write one as she's probably a higher percentage of Native American than the dude that wrote Coyote and Crow.

I'm already working on a Mayan inspired fantasy game, not historically accurate.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Valatar

The thing that gets me the most about the Aztecs is how impressed people are that they built a city and had a calendar, apparently not realizing that the timeframe for this was the 1400s-1500s.  Rome was well ahead of them millennia earlier.  The Notre Dame was constructed centuries before the Aztecs rose.  The Arabs were publishing books on algebra hundreds of years prior.  The Aztecs were not any flavor of technological powerhouse, the only thing remotely impressive was that they accomplished what they did in relative isolation, while Europe/Asia/Africa had communication and trade for advancements to more easily flourish.

DM_Curt

Pretty sure he said that if you're an Indian, you can run it in a way that is realistic to your tribe. So, if I could get my dad (card-carrying tribal member, I'm under the blood quantum, so no) to run a rpg, we could have a doozy of a game.
Denim jackets, unemployment, DV cases and alcoholism! And the shunning of anyone who leaves town to go get an education beyond HS.


Or better yet, we just let racist Connor cry into the wind, and his game gather dust alongside Racial Holy Way, MyFarog and the assorted detritus of the RPG world.

Svenhelgrim

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 05, 2022, 02:01:58 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on August 05, 2022, 01:40:54 PM
Or..or, hear me out. I kickstart a game where, in an alternative timeline, the europeans landed on the shores of North America and found it empty of human life? Because come to find out the indigenous population never crossed the land bridge. And the land was populated with monsters, like terrible cthulhu spawned monsters. Sounds cool to me....but the game would be called racist for erasing the natives I'm sure.
Or there are natives of Siberian origin, but they're confined to the western half of N. America because the decedents of the Vikings rule the eastern half. S. America has all the monsters.

...or...

A virulent plague had wiped out the indigenous people because Chinese explorers came, looked around, and left.

BronzeDragon

I think it's missing the point a little bit to call this a failure.

His KS did over a million dollars, so that's his sales floor. Do we have anyone here that would be able to estimate the production costs (the books seem to be in full color, pretty much something like industry standard quality in terms of paper, etc.)?

It's possible this guy has already walked away with a quarter of a million dollars just from the KS, and then further sales would be the cherry, rather than the sundae itself.

The tone of his post does seem a bit on the desperate side of cringe, so maybe the production costs were very high and the KS profits are way smaller than they appear to be...
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"It's not that I'm afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Boris Grushenko

Effete

Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 08:29:04 PM
I think it's missing the point a little bit to call this a failure.

His KS did over a million dollars, so that's his sales floor. Do we have anyone here that would be able to estimate the production costs (the books seem to be in full color, pretty much something like industry standard quality in terms of paper, etc.)?

The book is 300 pages, hard cover, full color. Looks to be 8.5"x11". There were 16,269 backers on the KS.
According to the free estimate I got from Mixam Printing, estimated cost would be  $211,690 and 50 cents.

BronzeDragon

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
The book is 300 pages, hard cover, full color. Looks to be 8.5"x11". There were 16,269 backers on the KS.
According to the free estimate I got from Mixam Printing, estimated cost would be  $211,690 and 50 cents.

Well, if this estimate is even close to true, that means this guy has already cleared anywhere between half and three quarters of a million dollars, before any sales outside of the KS. I don't think get woke go broke even remotely applies here.

However, it still begs the question of why that letter sounds so close to a desperation plea for more customers. Maybe the guy just really likes money.

P.S. : Probably closer to the lower estimate, since there are obviously costs other than printing. Paying for art, shipping, etc.
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"It's not that I'm afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Boris Grushenko

Rob Necronomicon

#52
Even if the guy wasn't so acerbic I still wouldn't buy or play this game.

I'm just not really interested in Native American culture for gaming purposes (unless it's the American Wild West). Same as most other cultures. I only want to play games that I'm familiar with. I'm a boring bastard but hey that's the way I like it.  ;D




Effete

Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
The book is 300 pages, hard cover, full color. Looks to be 8.5"x11". There were 16,269 backers on the KS.
According to the free estimate I got from Mixam Printing, estimated cost would be  $211,690 and 50 cents.

Well, if this estimate is even close to true, that means this guy has already cleared anywhere between half and three quarters of a million dollars, before any sales outside of the KS. I don't think get woke go broke even remotely applies here.

It looks like another 8-12K for shipping (depending on how many are international vs domestic).
After overhead, payroll, and reinvestment, he probably made a clean $500K.

QuoteHowever, it still begs the question of why that letter sounds so close to a desperation plea for more customers. Maybe the guy just really likes money.

It seems like it was sparked by people in the comments proudly flaunting their white guilt. But it's weird to try to get someone to buy/play your book by calling them racist and stupid. It was probably something like 3 people in the comments and the guy just couldn't help but use the R-card on them. Lefties eat their own when they can't find red meat.

Shrieking Banshee

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 01:17:38 PMI maintain that most of it is not simply hate for hate's sake; it's all in service of obtaining or keeping power/supremecy.
I argue its more religous in nature. I err more on the side of this being 70% 'Easy way to find purpose in life' with 30% of it being power plays.

There is always power grabs involved in any movement. I maintain that most of SOCJUS is genuine, but misguided madness and a gnostic disdain for life.

Ratman_tf

Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 08:29:04 PM
I think it's missing the point a little bit to call this a failure.

His KS did over a million dollars, so that's his sales floor. Do we have anyone here that would be able to estimate the production costs (the books seem to be in full color, pretty much something like industry standard quality in terms of paper, etc.)?

It's possible this guy has already walked away with a quarter of a million dollars just from the KS, and then further sales would be the cherry, rather than the sundae itself.

The tone of his post does seem a bit on the desperate side of cringe, so maybe the production costs were very high and the KS profits are way smaller than they appear to be...

Or he pissed the KS money away on office furniture and catering.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Visitor Q

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
The book is 300 pages, hard cover, full color. Looks to be 8.5"x11". There were 16,269 backers on the KS.
According to the free estimate I got from Mixam Printing, estimated cost would be  $211,690 and 50 cents.

Well, if this estimate is even close to true, that means this guy has already cleared anywhere between half and three quarters of a million dollars, before any sales outside of the KS. I don't think get woke go broke even remotely applies here.

It looks like another 8-12K for shipping (depending on how many are international vs domestic).
After overhead, payroll, and reinvestment, he probably made a clean $500K.

QuoteHowever, it still begs the question of why that letter sounds so close to a desperation plea for more customers. Maybe the guy just really likes money.

It seems like it was sparked by people in the comments proudly flaunting their white guilt. But it's weird to try to get someone to buy/play your book by calling them racist and stupid. It was probably something like 3 people in the comments and the guy just couldn't help but use the R-card on them. Lefties eat their own when they can't find red meat.

What are we basing the figures for overheads and in particular payroll on?

"Our goal in creating our first book is to have to have as many Native members on the team as possible and especially in key creative positions"

In this context I could see payroll costs spiralling.

Also does Kickstarter allow shenanigans like putting in your own money to generate interest? 

Finally check out the Intern (Director) job application. Raises a lot of exploitation red flags to me...

https://coyoteandcrow.net/2021/05/09/coyote-crow-creative-opportunities/




ponta1010

Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
The book is 300 pages, hard cover, full color. Looks to be 8.5"x11". There were 16,269 backers on the KS.
According to the free estimate I got from Mixam Printing, estimated cost would be  $211,690 and 50 cents.

Well, if this estimate is even close to true, that means this guy has already cleared anywhere between half and three quarters of a million dollars, before any sales outside of the KS. I don't think get woke go broke even remotely applies here.

But would someone who's had such a successful kickstarter print only the required number of books?

What happens if they printed more, and now have a warehouse full of books that need to be moved??
I just wanna fight some fuckin' dragons! Is that too much to ask? - Ghostmaker

Visitor Q

Quote from: ponta1010 on August 06, 2022, 03:36:12 AM
Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
The book is 300 pages, hard cover, full color. Looks to be 8.5"x11". There were 16,269 backers on the KS.
According to the free estimate I got from Mixam Printing, estimated cost would be  $211,690 and 50 cents.

Well, if this estimate is even close to true, that means this guy has already cleared anywhere between half and three quarters of a million dollars, before any sales outside of the KS. I don't think get woke go broke even remotely applies here.

But would someone who's had such a successful kickstarter print only the required number of books?

What happens if they printed more, and now have a warehouse full of books that need to be moved??

This is a really good point. To say nothing of associated overheads and contracts like office leases and business loans if he thought there was a long term market.

jeff37923

Quote from: Ratman_tf on August 06, 2022, 12:07:30 AM
Quote from: BronzeDragon on August 05, 2022, 08:29:04 PM
I think it's missing the point a little bit to call this a failure.

His KS did over a million dollars, so that's his sales floor. Do we have anyone here that would be able to estimate the production costs (the books seem to be in full color, pretty much something like industry standard quality in terms of paper, etc.)?

It's possible this guy has already walked away with a quarter of a million dollars just from the KS, and then further sales would be the cherry, rather than the sundae itself.

The tone of his post does seem a bit on the desperate side of cringe, so maybe the production costs were very high and the KS profits are way smaller than they appear to be...

Or he pissed the KS money away on office furniture and catering.

You mean like Ken Whitman did?
"Meh."