That, and it will probably arrive, just 10 years late.

Quote from: Skywalker;9558744 years? I remember when it was 4 years. Those were good times.

For the record we are currently at 5.5 years.

Sorry my sarcasm meter is on the fritz. Been dealing with people too serious for their own good lately.

Quote from: Headless;955716I am looking for a good book or two on WuXia.  Or the Xia.  I know almost nothing about them.  I think the Xia were like a chinese cross between an american gunfighter of the old west and a european Knight errant.  But obviouly their own thing that grew out of their own culture and history.  

Also readable history or well researched historic fiction on china's waring warring states period.  I also think during certan historical periods China's west was like the American old west.  Both empty, in both the horse was paramount, and both had heroic fighters wandering through.  

I may not have any Idea what I am talking about.  

Any suggestions welcome.

(Reading a book called Empire of the Summer Moon about the history of the Comanches.  I think their is a lot of good campagin materia in there.  It's related to my question about the simlairities between the far east and the old west.  I can't decide if it should have its own thread.)

The xia are wandering martial artists, usually depicted with a sword on their backs. They are looking to right wrongs, bring glory to their school and their names, find love and happiness, as well as to bring peace to others and peace of mind to themselves.
All of that, and more, are things that they are trying to accomplish via martial arts. Needless to say, they aren't always successful!
Of course, their main enemy is Fate. The cannibal cultists, walking tigers in human skin and reincarnated goddesses are just the pawns (and rooks,and towers...) in this game!

The best game I have seen, when it comes to background, are Qin: the Warring States and Outlaws of the Water Margin.
The best game, when it comes to genre emulation (at least, emulation of a certain part of the wuxia genre - though keep in mind that saying "wu xia" is as broad as saying "fantasy", and one kind of it is like saying ) is Legends of the Wulin. What do I mean by best?
Learn the rules (no mean feat by itself, some say). Create characters. Start playing by the book trying to game the system as much as possible.
You'll be behaving like xia in no time flat, even if you had no idea about the genre.

Quote from: SineNomine;955866[book list

Thanks.  That is exactly what I was looking for.  Although its lame that the book I want is 240 bucks.  

I have probably a 3rd rate research lybary in my town.  Small libral arts undergrad university.

You a proffesional china reasearcher?  Or a gentilman of leasure?

Quote from: Headless;955951You a proffesional china reasearcher?  Or a gentilman of leasure?

A gentleman of unsleeping toil now, really. I spent the past fourteen years working for Yale's library, so it hasn't been much of a problem to accumulate a research library. I quit that last month and moved back to a village in Michigan because Sine Nomine has been earning too much the past few years to bother with Yale any more. Now I can sit quietly and read some of the 2,000 books I've got to hand and maybe speed up my RPG production a little.

Quote from: SineNomine;955866One caveat, however, is that the Water Margin plays up the "haoren" character stereotype, and the haoren is not entirely the same as the classic knight-errant. Black Lightning from the Jade Empire game by Bioware was lifted from this tradition- he's a haoren, in that he really doesn't care what cause he fights for so long as there's a good fight involved. He's loyal to the death to his companions, but he really doesn't care if his companions are assholes or not, so long as they're loyal to him as well. He wants women, fame, money, and success, and while he'll never betray his sworn brothers to get it, he'll do all kinds of deeply nasty things to bystanders on the way. He respects courage, loyalty, and skill, and those who have none of these things are useful only insofar as they provide entertainment or point him at some great deed that will earn him suitable fame.

So "haoren" is Mandarin for "typical player character"?

Quote from: The Butcher;956008So "haoren" is Mandarin for "typical player character"?

Pretty much. Toward the end of the Qing dynasty, the haoren was such a recognized social type that there were particular rituals involved in their executions. They'd be taken to the execution ground in the usual cart, but the haoren would stop the cart to demand a length of red cloth from a tailor to drape around his neck. As he was being taken to his death, he was expected to boast of his deeds, declare what a fabulous haoren he was, and commonly assure the listeners that "in twenty-one years I'll be a haoren again!", referring to the expected cycles of rebirth. In return, bystanders judged his merit based on how fearlessly he faced his death, how brashly he bragged of his deeds, and how conspicuous his loyalty to his sworn brothers was. It was terribly disappointing when some haoren-poser lost his nerve halfway to the beheading-ground and couldn't manage to sing anything witty. The Communists squelched that kind of thing when they took over, and killed "hooligans" without public fuss. They didn't need any folk heroes in the wrong places.

Quote from: SineNomine;956032Pretty much. Toward the end of the Qing dynasty, the haoren was such a recognized social type that there were particular rituals involved in their executions. They'd be taken to the execution ground in the usual cart, but the haoren would stop the cart to demand a length of red cloth from a tailor to drape around his neck. As he was being taken to his death, he was expected to boast of his deeds, declare what a fabulous haoren he was, and commonly assure the listeners that "in twenty-one years I'll be a haoren again!", referring to the expected cycles of rebirth. In return, bystanders judged his merit based on how fearlessly he faced his death, how brashly he bragged of his deeds, and how conspicuous his loyalty to his sworn brothers was. It was terribly disappointing when some haoren-poser lost his nerve halfway to the beheading-ground and couldn't manage to sing anything witty. The Communists squelched that kind of thing when they took over, and killed "hooligans" without public fuss. They didn't need any folk heroes in the wrong places.

That can also be taken as an example of the fate that awaits "typical player characters" in most settings:). Refrees need to take notes!

Also, it's a fun reminder that many PCs start wanting to be virtuous xia, and then end up being haoren;).

Quote from: SineNomine;956007A gentleman of unsleeping toil now, really. I spent the past fourteen years working for Yale's library, so it hasn't been much of a problem to accumulate a research library. I quit that last month and moved back to a village in Michigan because Sine Nomine has been earning too much the past few years to bother with Yale any more. Now I can sit quietly and read some of the 2,000 books I've got to hand and maybe speed up my RPG production a little.

What's "sine Nomine"?  

A lybraian though? Do they get to read?  I live in a university town, I do shift work in a factory.  I get to read more than all of my proffessor friends.  If its not on their book list they don't have time. Even if its in their subject.

Quote from: Headless;956087What's "sine Nomine"?  

A lybraian though? Do they get to read?  I live in a university town, I do shift work in a factory.  I get to read more than all of my proffessor friends.  If its not on their book list they don't have time. Even if its in their subject.

Sine Nomine is the account of the Sine Nomine publishing house* which brought to us gems like Spears of the Dawn, Scarlet Heroes and Godbound, among others;).
BTW, any thoughts on my LotW suggestion?

*It's a publishing house, right?

Quote from: Skywalker;955881No. As I see it KS is about buyer beware. Looking for a refund just makes it more likely other backers won't get the stuff they want. I won't ever back GMS again or anything he has his hand in though.

If he had approached things with anything close to honesty I probably would've let it all go. Things happen. But his constant lying and blaming warranted a hit to his wallet, not just reputation.

Quote from: AsenRG;956089Sine Nomine is the account of the Sine Nomine publishing house* which brought to us gems like Spears of the Dawn, Scarlet Heroes and Godbound, among others;).
BTW, any thoughts on my LotW suggestion?

*It's a publishing house, right?

Legend of the Wulin?

I am a store shoper.  If I can't walk in to some place and pick the book up and flip through the pages I am less interested.

But I'll check it out at drive through?

Quote from: Headless;956103Legend of the Wulin?

I am a store shoper.  If I can't walk in to some place and pick the book up and flip through the pages I am less interested.

But I'll check it out at drive through?

Last I heard, the authors themselves would like to know the address if you find the store where those books are:D. Maybe I'm out of the loop, though, I'm a PDF user and happy with it.
Warning, don't even think to purchase if you dislike rather crunchy systems;).

Quote from: AsenRG;956172Last I heard, the authors themselves would like to know the address if you find the store where those books are:D. Maybe I'm out of the loop, though, I'm a PDF user and happy with it.
Warning, don't even think to purchase if you dislike rather crunchy systems;).

I like crunchy systems.  But like I said I have a no screens at the gaming table rule.

I'd like to have a no rule books at the gaming table as well.

I have also noticed in the last couple of years, my opoinions have slid to extrimities and I have become quite sure of them. That would be fine except one of the things I have become quit sure of is that no one knows anything and disaster and damnation follow from certainty.

Quote from: Headless;956192I like crunchy systems.  But like I said I have a no screens at the gaming table rule.

I'd like to have a no rule books at the gaming table as well.

Then LotW is definitely not for you, and for that matter, Pathfinder, GURPS and a few others also would be a bad fit:).

QuoteI have also noticed in the last couple of years, my opoinions have slid to extrimities and I have become quite sure of them. That would be fine except one of the things I have become quit sure of is that no one knows anything and disaster and damnation follow from certainty.

It's alright to be worried in this case.
Only a certain kind of Chi-Users deal in absolutes, you know;)?