I do buy new books and stuff, and a lot of PDFs.  I also read a lot online.

But the basic tenet of the OP I am in pretty strong agreement with.
I did write my own game, and it has changed, but I consider it houseruling in terms of the changes and growth (and the fact that there are a bunch of advanced rules different groups may or may not use.

I also believe that, as I have said, the congruity between setting and gamestyle with System are totally necessary for this kind of longevity.

Campaign and setting started in 1983.  Still going strong.  Oldest current group playing is Miston, playing only 3-4 times a year, but in year 17, Igbar, which plays 14-16 times a year is just over 10 years old.  Online Steel SIle game just hit session 130 last night and we are working on starting the Collegium Arcana game by october.

Core rules (No bought books) on the wiki, hombrew system to match homebrew setting (nothing bought that is used in setting), only 1 bought adventure used in the whole thing in 29 years.

Quote from: D-503;578000 Similarly if you're running Rolemaster classic and then a child arrives you may want a game with lighter prep requirements. None of that though requires a supplement treadmill/ongoing game line.

Most boardgames are a single box. ...if anything rpgs are better suited to that model than boardgames, so why don't they follow it?

This, as I'm sure you know, is down to the games company trying to keep a revenue stream flowing from the same product. And as you really don't need anything aside from a complete core book, most rpg companies eventually fail. Incomplete core books, 'necessary' supplements, splats...all ways to keep the golden goose laying eggs. Which is another discussion entirely...

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;578005This, as I'm sure you know, is down to the games company trying to keep a revenue stream flowing from the same product. And as you really don't need anything aside from a complete core book, most rpg companies eventually fail. Incomplete core books, 'necessary' supplements, splats...all ways to keep the golden goose laying eggs. Which is another discussion entirely...

I swear to god sometimes I kickstart and by new RPG stuff just to give back.  I rarely use any of it.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;578005This, as I'm sure you know, is down to the games company trying to keep a revenue stream flowing from the same product. And as you really don't need anything aside from a complete core book, most rpg companies eventually fail. Incomplete core books, 'necessary' supplements, splats...all ways to keep the golden goose laying eggs. Which is another discussion entirely...

Eh, I suspect that's this discussion.

Quote from: D-503;577963The thread title is a quote from a post gleichman made. I think it's true. If it is though, why does our hobby not reflect its truth?

Who says it doesn't?

Anyone who is just using the core books and their own game world is likely to be invisible to the wider hobby. They aren't buying anything, they aren't going to conventions, and they likely aren't posting on sites like this. For all we know, they're the majority of role-players.

IIRC, the WotC survey of D&D players in 2000 identified that in North America there were 2.5 million people who played D&D regularly, but only a few hundred thousand (or less) who bought TSR products regularly. Now there's a lot to criticise about the methodology of that study, but personally I've always found those numbers easy to believe.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;578005This, as I'm sure you know, is down to the games company trying to keep a revenue stream flowing from the same product. And as you really don't need anything aside from a complete core book, most rpg companies eventually fail. Incomplete core books, 'necessary' supplements, splats...all ways to keep the golden goose laying eggs. Which is another discussion entirely...

I read an interview with Shane Lacey Hensley of Pinnacle a few months back where he said that the model PEG are trying to go for now is something more akin to the "freemium" model you see in MMOs. They'll sell the game to you as cheap as they can, but then try to find other things that you want to buy. That might be new setting books, but it's also custom tokens, dice, paper minis, etc.

Forget core books - core BOOK. The Rules Cyclopedia and your own world should be enough to keep any group playing D&D for decades, anyway.

Quote from: D-503;578015Eh, I suspect that's this discussion.

Oh yeah, you're right...

I of course have to agree with my own statement, but I think it's worth noting that I'm not immune to new shiny things.

So let me give you a bit of my gaming history.

In 1980 we started our 'modern' RPG campaigns after a few years of playing D&D. We decided that basically nothing went right before (even if it was fun) and that a clean break was needed. The result was two new fantasy campaigns based upon a homegrown set of rules (that became Age of Heroes). Mine was based in Middle Earth and used one of those large poster maps published at the time. It's sister campaign (ran by another GM) was based upon a hand drawn map of fantasy Europe.

And from then until now that's basically all that we had. For much of it, we didn't even have a core book- just charts and notes as to how the system worked. Decades of gaming began.

We were far along when MERP appeared on the scene (1984). As I was running a Middle Earth game, I brought just about everything that I.C.E produced... and used almost none of it. The artwork was nice, but their rules weren't and conversion into Age of Heroes took as much effort as making up stuff myself- but didn't fit our style as well. I did end up with some nice maps and one or two adventure ideas, but basically my campaign continued on its own.

I learned from that experience not to buy into Middle Earth game lines, and I've ignore the ones that have been published since.

So far, I'm nearly a model of the thread's topic.

However...

There was more to gaming than just those two fantasy campaigns. Over the years we played Champions (and then HERO). Here we collected the entire published line, because they were new and shiny books to be had. And sadly new rules in each expansion. Here I was as much on the supplement treadmill as anyone.

I've recently stepped off however. 5th Edition greatly reduced the number of rules found in supplements, but didn't eliminated it. However 6th edition collected nearly all the rules not included in the core book into a single 'advanced book'. The result now is that I use only four rule books for my HERO based games- 5th Edition revised, 6th Edition Advanced Players' Guide, 6th Edition Hero System Martial Arts, and 5th Edition Ultimate Skill. I plan to buy nothing else from Hero games.


Over the years we've tried other games when 'taking a break' from the fantasy campaign. Shadowrun and Deadlands most notably. In each case, we brought lots of shiny new books. And eventually got disgusted with rule problems as the issues the caused built up over the campaign. We ditched them in favor of converting everything to HERO.

So lots of wasted money, and wasted time- often learning lessons that I should have already learned before. As things stand now, it's very doubtful that I'd ever repeat the 'buy the whole line' experience with another system in the future. It's unlikely that I'll even buy another core system in fact.

Quote from: noisms;578021Forget core books - core BOOK. The Rules Cyclopedia and your own world should be enough to keep any group playing D&D for decades, anyway.

yep, that's the thing.  a core book (or boxed set) and that's it.  no multiple book requirement.  wfrp 1e, aside from typos, got it right in that regard.  and it's one thing that i am curious to see with the whole d&d 5e thing.  do they do it sensibly, in one volume?  or go the other route and sucker folks into the 3 core book model?

Quote from: Grymbok;578018Anyone who is just using the core books and their own game world is likely to be invisible to the wider hobby. They aren't buying anything, they aren't going to conventions, and they likely aren't posting on sites like this. For all we know, they're the majority of role-players.

I agree for the most part, but Id guess that those who run games are more likely to post, than players. You make your own world, its useful to communicate with others who are also doing the same. I find it very useful for that reason.

Beans, rice, cabbage, oranges and water will keep you alive for a lifetime. Why doesn't everyone limit their diet to these? They don't need anything else.

-clash

I feel competent enough to create anything that I need for my game, given enough time.  I don't always have enough time, but more importantly, players (especially those not versed in the system) have more trouble figuring out what they want if options aren't presented to them in an easy to comprehend format.

I'd rather a player look through a book, see something they're interested in and bring that to me, at least as a starting point.  Maybe we use it as written; maybe we modify it for the campaign, but either way, they're engaged without having to work out every little detail directly with me (again, time).

I also like completing a collection.

Quote from: flyingmice;578048Beans, rice, cabbage, oranges and water will keep you alive for a lifetime. Why doesn't everyone limit their diet to these? They don't need anything else.

-clash

Well stated.

Quote from: flyingmice;578048Beans, rice, cabbage, oranges and water will keep you alive for a lifetime. Why doesn't everyone limit their diet to these? They don't need anything else.

Speaking strictly for myself, it's not so much "you don't need supplements" as "you shouldn't need supplements." I own the Creature Catalog for the D&D RC because I'm a sucker for monster books, and Delta Green for CoC because DG is awesome; and I intend to pick up a bunch of MGT books because I want to fine-tune the setting away from the Third Imperium and into its own thing. But most of what I needed for the afore mentioned countless hours of quality gaming is right there in the core rulebooks.