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What's compatible with what?

Legend is exactly the same as Mongoose RQ2, save that it has all the Gloranthan references taken out (and maybe some of the magic systems too).

RQ6 is Loz and my update to MRQ2, with refined rule changes and a proper bestiary, wrapped up in a comprehensive, all-in-one book. There's some skill name changes and a lot of magic revisions.

Elric. Do you mean Chaosium Elric or Mongoose Elric of Melnibone?

Hawkmoon. Mongoose Hawkmoon was originally written for MRQ1. It can still be used with Legend but requires a bit of work.

MRQ2 and Legend are the closest in terms of compatibility. Legend is basically MRQ2 with Glorantha references removed, and a small amount of rules cleanup.

RQ6 is an evolution of MRQ2, with a significant amount of rules cleanup performed.

"Elric!" is a blend of earlier-RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu rules systems. Notably, it has different magic systems and randomized armor point values.

They're all BRP-based, D100 systems so they're not really miles apart from one another - though, I've never read Hawkmoon. It probably bears the closest resemblance to Elric.

The different iterations of fantasy-flavored BRP are about as cross-compatible between each other as the different iterations of TSR-era D&D and its simulacra.

So basically it's all much of a muchness.

Pretty much. A couple fine points:

There are two main strains of "Elric". One was the game "Elric!" that was put out by Chaosium to replace their "Stormbringer" 1e-4e , and then just to confuse things, they eventually issued a new edition also titled "Stormbringer" (5e). This is the game that K Petersen refers to.

It's also the game that forms the basis of Ben Monroe's "Magic World."

The other "Elric" is Mongoose's "Elric of Melnibone", with two editions, based on MRQ I and MRQ II/Legend. So AFAIK it doesn't have the random armor system, and Elric II is claimed to be the closest to the source material of all the various Elrics and Stormbringers.

The biggest difference between all these things is, not surprisingly, how magic works. There are conceptual and mechanical overlaps, but also variation. E.g. the Chaosium "Elric!" branch has a bunch of spells that you cast in a straightforward manner using a sort of spell point system, as well as summoning. I think the other Elric/SB games generally just use summoning. Meanwhile, RQ/Legend has a few other magic systems.

The other big difference is how hit points and armor work. In the "Elric!" branch, there's only general hit points, with special effects depending on whether you take a lot of damage in one blow (major wounds), or go below a certain threshold. Also, armor is worn as a single "panoply" that absorbs variable damage. Combined, these mechanics give a sort of effect of hit locations, without actually tracking them.

In the other branches, you have hit points and armor per location. I believe all the non-Chaosium versions (other then OpenQuest, which wasn't raised in the OP) have no general hit points. Lose enough points to one location, and you suffer some effect. Lose a bunch all at once, and you may suffer a worse effect.

Oh, yeah, there are also rules for "alignment" or "elan" or [mumble], representing how closely aligned you are with the three main cosmic forces. These vary in mechanics and effect across branches, too, although I'm only familiar with the "Elric!" branch's handling.

There, what's sort of interesting is that gaining points in alignment to one force doesn't necessarily cost you points in another.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;634587Oh, yeah, there are also rules for "alignment" or "elan" or [mumble], representing how closely aligned you are with the three main cosmic forces. These vary in mechanics and effect across branches, too, although I'm only familiar with the "Elric!" branch's handling.

There, what's sort of interesting is that gaining points in alignment to one force doesn't necessarily cost you points in another.

This is the Allegiance system present in the new Magic World RPG, which is basically a cleaned-up, de-Moorcockified version of Chaosium's Elric!. Simpler than RQ6 with only one magic system, it's a good choice for BRP fantasy.

Ben Monroe (zomben here and over at RPGnet) is a great guy and I wish him all the success in the world with the new Magic World RPG.

That being said, though, there is a bit of a glut going on in the "BRP fantasy" department. Nothing even close to d20 levels, mind, but between Legend, RQ6, Openquest and Magic World (not counting BRP core and/or BRP Classic Fantasy, or older and out-of-print editions of Runequest and Stormbringer), this is already an embarassment of riches. Still, it's working for old school D&D, isn't it? ANd like old school D&D, cross-compatibility might be the key here.

Of those listed, "Elric!" is easily the best.

Such a mess of versions!

I just realized I only played one version of Elric, and have no clue which one it was.

The game mechanics did seem almost the same as Call of Cthulu though.



The armor DR as a rolled value can be a great mechanic compared to flat DR.

Depends if you prefer combat to be more chaotic or predictable.

I played Chaosium Stormbringer - which basically amounted to 'be a sorcerer and win.'

Summoned demons were outrageous.

Does the new Elric tackle this?

Quote from: One Horse Town;634779I played Chaosium Stormbringer - which basically amounted to 'be a sorcerer and win.'

Summoned demons were outrageous.

Does the new Elric tackle this?

I think the Elric!/SB5e system inherits the 4e demon rules; it's still possible to make an outrageously powerful weapon, etc.

Mongoose EoM is a different beast entirely. TBH I've hardly read the books as they are so badly laid out. Hawkmoon is better with (I think) a more coherent magic system. I think I'll have another look this evening.

Also, you left out Darcsydes' Corum supplement. FWIW, here (http://www.departmentv.net/2012/03/eternal-champion-miscellany.html) is my rundown of the different editions. It doesn't really answer your compatibility question, although I'd just mix and match and expect things to break anyway (1e SB is broken, as you've noted).

For magic - I prefer Elric!/SB5e with the Bronze Grimoire supplement.
For combat - the same, though it won't have the fancy manouvers of MRQ2/Legend/RQ6.

Note that Hawkmoon and 1e EoM are MRQ 1st edition, which wasn't highly thought of.

Quote from: Bill;634777The armor DR as a rolled value can be a great mechanic compared to flat DR. Depends if you prefer combat to be more chaotic or predictable.

Eh, it's a functional mechanic if you prefer a more abstracted combat. Many flat-DR versions of BRP include randomized hit locations, HP per location, and results for damage exceeding HP per location. These factors add "the chaos" that flat DR does not include.

Quote from: K Peterson;634801Eh, it's a functional mechanic if you prefer a more abstracted combat. Many flat-DR versions of BRP include randomized hit locations, HP per location, and results for damage exceeding HP per location. These factors add "the chaos" that flat DR does not include.

That sounds mechanically sound, but a lot of crunch.

Maybe a little more crunch, and a little more bookkeeping compared with Elric!. (Elric also had the Major Wound table, which an abstraction of hit locations).

Quote from: K Peterson;634830Maybe a little more crunch, and a little more bookkeeping compared with Elric!. (Elric also had the Major Wound table, which an abstraction of hit locations).

The Stormbringer i played had the major wound chart too. I have no idea what edition it was other than i won it in a White Dwarf competition back in about '86 or '87.

Quote from: smiorgan;634789...
Mongoose EoM is a different beast entirely. TBH I've hardly read the books as they are so badly laid out. Hawkmoon is better with (I think) a more coherent magic system. I think I'll have another look this evening.
...
For magic - I prefer Elric!/SB5e with the Bronze Grimoire supplement.
For combat - the same, though it won't have the fancy manouvers of MRQ2/Legend/RQ6.

Note that Hawkmoon and 1e EoM are MRQ 1st edition, which wasn't highly thought of.

MRQII is a different -- vastly superior -- beast than MRQI.  (And, as already noted, it's pretty much identical to Legend.)  RQ6 even more superior.

The Elric books for MRQII are excellent.  They nail the setting better than any other version IMO.

The magic system consists of (a) dream magic, (b) rune magic, (c) sorcery (summoning demons and elementals), and (d) spirit magic.  Characters also can gains special powers via pacts and as members of cults.

I think that the magic system for the MRQII version of EoM is as evocative as that found in the Bronze Grimoire (if not more so).

Quote from: danbuter;634776Of those listed, "Elric!" is easily the best.

A few years ago I would've agreed with you.

However, I've since played in an campaign using the Elric of Melnibone books for MRQII (some playtesting of RQ6 towards the end).

It was, hands down, the best fantasy campaign in which I've played in recent years.

And MRQII + EoM nailed the setting even better than Elric!.

(Campaign notes + partial log in my sig.)

Quote from: One Horse Town;634779I played Chaosium Stormbringer - which basically amounted to 'be a sorcerer and win.'

Summoned demons were outrageous.

Does the new Elric tackle this?

There are a wider variety of forms of magical power in the 'new' Elric (by which I assume you are referring to the MRQII/Legend version, not Elric!).

Sorcerers can cast 'spells' by using rune magic.  My sorcerer PC relied on runes exclusively.

Less cautious sorcerers can summon demons or elementals.  They are powerful, but risky.

Dream magic is an entirely different form of magic, available only to dream thieves.  It's not 'powerful' in any traditional sense (e.g., it has no 'combat' applications), but allows for all kinds of great campaign and role-playing opportunities.

Any PC can enter a cult or swear a pact and gain special powers that way (assuming that the opportunity to do so arises during the campaign).  Another character in my 'Young Kingdoms' campaign (my PC's half-brother, actually) entered into a pact with Arioch.  He was a pure warrior (no sorcery, etc.), but gained benefits that way (which never were revealed to the other players, alas).

In short, I think that the MRQII/Legend version of Elric not only opens up the range of kinds of magic-users available as PCs (not just sorcerers, but dream thieves, shamans, etc., as well), it does a better job than the Chaosium versions in making non-sorcerers effective PCs.

Quote from: One Horse Town;634850The Stormbringer i played had the major wound chart too. I have no idea what edition it was other than i won it in a White Dwarf competition back in about '86 or '87.

It probably was 3e, the version published by Games Workshop.

The differences between 1e, 2e, and 3e are negligible.

Quote from: Akrasia;634857There are a wider variety of forms of magical power in the 'new' Elric (by which I assume you are referring to the MRQII/Legend version, not Elric!).

Sorcerers can cast 'spells' by using rune magic.  My sorcerer PC relied on runes exclusively.

Less cautious sorcerers can summon demons or elementals.  They are powerful, but risky.

Dream magic is an entirely different form of magic, available only to dream thieves.  It's not 'powerful' in any traditional sense (e.g., it has no 'combat' applications), but allows for all kinds of great campaign and role-playing opportunities.

Any PC can enter a cult or swear a pact and gain special powers that way (assuming that the opportunity to do so arises during the campaign).  Another character in my 'Young Kingdoms' campaign (my PC's half-brother, actually) entered into a pact with Arioch.  He was a pure warrior (no sorcery, etc.), but gained benefits that way (which never were revealed to the other players, alas).

In short, I think that the MRQII/Legend version of Elric not only opens up the range of kinds of magic-users available as PCs (not just sorcerers, but dream thieves, shamans, etc., as well), it does a better job than the Chaosium versions in making non-sorcerers effective PCs.

Cool. I might pick up Legend & Elric of Melnibone then.

Looking at the Mongoose site, they also have Cults of the Young Kingdoms listed for the newest edition. Any idea whether that's worth the extra coinage?

Quote from: One Horse Town;634861Cool. I might pick up Legend & Elric of Melnibone then.

Looking at the Mongoose site, they also have Cults of the Young Kingdoms listed for the newest edition. Any idea whether that's worth the extra coinage?

I think that it's very good.  But you may want to check out EoM first, as it includes a few cults.  If you would like to see more, then CoYK is worth it.

Quote from: danbuter;634776Of those listed, "Elric!" is easily the best.

Elric! rocks, yeah.

Quote from: The Ent;634873Elric! rocks, yeah.

I was very fortunate to have a friend who was a huge fan of the books, and happens to be a great gm. So I got to play some long running Elric games, and it was awesome.

One player loved to yell out "Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!" as he went into battle.


I have always considered the CoC/Elric game mechanics to be excellent.
Sure, might be a few hiccups, but overall they work for me.

Quote from: Akrasia;634851MRQII is a different -- vastly superior -- beast than MRQI.  (And, as already noted, it's pretty much identical to Legend.)  RQ6 even more superior.

The Elric books for MRQII are excellent.  They nail the setting better than any other version IMO.

The magic system consists of (a) dream magic, (b) rune magic, (c) sorcery (summoning demons and elementals), and (d) spirit magic.  Characters also can gains special powers via pacts and as members of cults.

I think that the magic system for the MRQII version of EoM is as evocative as that found in the Bronze Grimoire (if not more so).

Good to know. I only have a MRQ1e books as you can guess. I do think they're great for content, but the layout has been a big barrier. I do own the MRQ2 HB and it's like it's been produced by a different company. If the 2e Elric is that quality, then I expect I'd respond positively.

Also I think what the Bronze Grimoire manages is to present several distinct kinds of magic clearly, which is why it succeeds. But I don't really like the point-and-click spells of the latter-era Stormbringer. Runes + Demons sounds like a good system, even harking back to the spirit of the early SB editions.

Quote from: One Horse Town;634477What's compatible with what?

It all depends on what you mean by compatible.

At their core, you roll 1D100 and try to roll below a skill. In that sense they are all compatible.

Some of these games use Hit Locations, some do not. To me, this is a different measure of compatibility, as it means you have to introduce hit locations or scrap them to suit your game.

Chaosium's Elric and Hawkmoon games do not use Hit Locations, so are compatible with each other but not so compatible with the other games.

Mongoose's Elric and Hawkmoon, however, use hit locations and are therefore more compatible with the other games.

Mongoose's Elric and Hawkmoon are based on MRQ1, or maybe they were reskinned for MRQ2 I can't remember. Both Legend and RuneQuest 6 are based on MRQ2. So, Mongoose's Elric, Hawkmoon and MRQ2 should be very compatible. Legend is very compatible with MRQ2 and RuneQuest 6 is fairly compatible with MRQ2.

You can certainly use NPCs from each of these in any of the others without any real problems. Magic might be a bit trickier, as each setting has its own magic rules. RuneQuest 6 is probably the least compatible magic-wise as it has changed magic quite a bit.

Wow. Picked up the Legend pdf for 75 cents!

Liking what i'm seeing and will probably get the print version in the near future.

Quote from: One Horse Town;635234Wow. Picked up the Legend pdf for 75 cents!

This... this is an outrage. I paid a dollar.

But seriously, if you want a hard copy you have 3 options:

• Legend is in digest format (my preference)
• MRQII should be exactly the same, and can be had cheaply (think I got mine via Amazon.co.uk, where the price was less than postage). From what I can see the rules are identical.
• RQ6 is an evolved version of MRQ2, AFAIK.

Quote from: One Horse Town;635234Wow. Picked up the Legend pdf for 75 cents!

Liking what i'm seeing and will probably get the print version in the near future.

If you like what you see in Legend, RQ6 will totally blow you away.

Quote from: languagegeek;635460If you like what you see in Legend, RQ6 will totally blow you away.

Seconded. RQ6 is MRQ2/Legend revised, plus more of everything. I have a review here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=25324).

Quote from: The Butcher;635467Seconded. RQ6 is MRQ2/Legend revised, plus more of everything. I have a review here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=25324).

If you think making RQ2 more complex for no reason is good, then RQ6 is great!

Quote from: danbuter;635522If you think making RQ2 more complex for no reason is good, then RQ6 is great!

I'd take issue with "no reason" (YMMV and all that) but even though I gave RQ6 a 10 and a rave review, I did include a caveat:

Quote from: The Butcher;616541If you're looking for something lighter, older editions of Runequest and Stormbringer, or the excellent Openquest, may be a better fit.

Quote from: danbuter;635522If you think making RQ2 more complex for no reason is good, then RQ6 is great!

Um, how exactly is RQ6 "more complex for no reason" than MRQII?

There are more magic systems in RQ6.  So I guess that if one felt the need to use them all in one's campaign, then that would make RQ6 'more complex' for that person than MRQII.  But I don't think giving RuneQuest players more possible magic systems increases complexity "for no reason."

Aside from that, I don't see how RQ6 is "more complex" overall than MRQII.

Quote from: languagegeek;635460If you like what you see in Legend, RQ6 will totally blow you away.

Maybe, but i'm not in the market for another 400 + page book. Legend is doing nicely.

Quote from: Akrasia;635536Aside from that, I don't see how RQ6 is "more complex" overall than MRQII.

Possibly he's referring to Chaosium RQ II. I don't have RQ 6 but MRQ II is already more than I feel I'd want. Partly because I don't want combat to be so involved (though the combat maneuvers concept is cool), partly because I don't expect players to handle that much crunch.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;635562...I don't have RQ 6 but MRQ II is already more than I feel I'd want. Partly because I don't want combat to be so involved (though the combat maneuvers concept is cool), partly because I don't expect players to handle that much crunch.

Fair enough.  

I will say that I felt the same way about MRQII combat before I actually tried out.  

In practice, I found it pretty straightforward.  And the combat manoeuvres really add a lot to the game!  They make MRQII/Legend/RQ6 the best combat system in a RPG that I've every played.

Quote from: One Horse Town;635544Maybe, but i'm not in the market for another 400 + page book. Legend is doing nicely.

Perhaps the only criticism you could make of RQ6 is that it has too many pages. There are after all only so many pages a rpg rulebook should have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_UsmvtyxEI

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;635562Possibly he's referring to Chaosium RQ II. I don't have RQ 6 but MRQ II is already more than I feel I'd want. Partly because I don't want combat to be so involved (though the combat maneuvers concept is cool), partly because I don't expect players to handle that much crunch.

It might seem counter-intuitive but I have found RQ6 combat plays more fluidly than Chaosium RQ2 - when you actually play it. *Reading* it might make it look crunchier, more complex, more time consuming but the effect is to make fights more interesting and resolve faster.

Why is this? Partly because RQ6 gets rid of the 20% 'special success' (which still generated things like impale effects in RQ2) and *only* uses criticals but adds 'special effects' - and these tend to end combat faster. Of course that's just the combat system, there's a lot more to RQ6.

As for Legend, it seems to have been a surprise success for Mongoose and is going to benefit anyone who plays BRP/RuneQuest/OpenQuest.

Quote from: Bilharzia;635566Perhaps the only criticism you could make of RQ6 is that it has too many pages. There are after all only so many pages a rpg rulebook should have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_UsmvtyxEI

Hush.

QuoteIf you think making RQ2 more complex for no reason is good, then RQ6 is great!

Please expand on this comment...

Quote from: Loz;635615Please expand on this comment...

Personally, I think the games are so similar, as it would be hard to say "this one adds unneeded details". Once I've had the chance to play both over several sessions, maybe I'll see a difference at the table. From reading them, I'm not seeing how one is more complicated. Are people making this assumption based on the comparisons of the two games online?

Quote from: One Horse Town;635544Maybe, but i'm not in the market for another 400 + page book. Legend is doing nicely.

Fair enough. We played a bunch of MRQII and it's great fun.

I'll back the "runs less complex then it reads" argument when it comes to Combat Maneuvers/Special Abilities.  Much faster then you'd think.

Combat maneuvers, or a variant: seems fine.

Combat actions: seems to add more procedural complexity than I'd want. Then again, I'm currently leaning toward the Elric! branch, which is even cleaner than Chaosium/AH RQ 1-3.

RQ6 isn't complex period. The only thing (like any other system) is getting to grips with magic. I have every related version: Stormbringer, Elric, BRP, RQ II - VI. I find that BRP reads far more complex as it is modular. Sure Elric and Stormbringer do read less complex but they are setting specific and the magic is actual pretty much unchanged.

I have no reason to say it, but RQ6 is the best RPG in the last few years. The only problem I have is finding folk to play it!

They're all compatible.