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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: One Horse Town on February 16, 2009, 02:17:30 PM

Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: One Horse Town on February 16, 2009, 02:17:30 PM
Melee combat. You are outnumbered. How do you want the mechanics of the game to support this? What are you looking for in combats where one side outnumbers another - a mechanical reflection of that advantage, a grind until one side is defeated, but no other mechanical inteference, or something else? Genre can certainly effect the preference on a game by game basis, but what is your default preference, genre aside?
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: estar on February 16, 2009, 02:41:04 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;283777Melee combat. You are outnumbered. How do you want the mechanics of the game to support this? What are you looking for in combats where one side outnumbers another - a mechanical reflection of that advantage, a grind until one side is defeated, but no other mechanical inteference, or something else? Genre can certainly effect the preference on a game by game basis, but what is your default preference, genre aside?

A reduction of defense for each subsequent attack representing division of attention. In RPGs with no defense roll then a bonus to subsequent attacks is the functional equivalent.

In games with facing using a modifier can be dispensed with as the rear and side attack modifiers can be considered equivalent. However realistically it is easier in theory to defend with one guy rushing to your rear then it is with multiple people.
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: KenHR on February 16, 2009, 03:22:46 PM
Ideally, the game should be able to handle this without needing special mechanics beyond some sort of facing rule.
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: droog on February 16, 2009, 03:24:37 PM
No default preference, because specifics are all.
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: Malleus Arianorum on February 17, 2009, 02:50:10 AM
As soon as someone picks up a miniature, they rotate it to show which way they're facing -- it's a primal nerd-urge. But, in practice I'm quite satisfied with games where there is no facing and no numerical bonus for flanking, surrounding or attacking from the rear.
 
Just focusing your entire team on a single target is devastating enough. When you add in other situational benefits, surrounding a target to immobilize it and isolate it from the cleric, or getting multiple angles with ranged attacks to deny cover, the benefits of ganging up / focusing fire are clear!
 
The only reason that's not good enough is because of a game design arms race, where a lone defender gets anti-flanking powers. Sweep attacks or some other bonus for being outnumbered, surrounded and flanked. So if you go that route, then you need to compensate with anti-anti-flanking powers....
 
But I prefer to keep it simple and let geometry gank the flanked.
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: tellius on February 17, 2009, 03:10:44 AM
Default preference is for bonuses/reward for attacking from flanking positions and numbers.

I like it when the defender has to use some sort of tactics to minimize the bonuses (stand in doorways/narrow stairwells/generally use the environment and/or movement to their advantage).
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: Cranewings on February 18, 2009, 12:34:01 AM
Quote from: tellius;283879Default preference is for bonuses/reward for attacking from flanking positions and numbers.

I like it when the defender has to use some sort of tactics to minimize the bonuses (stand in doorways/narrow stairwells/generally use the environment and/or movement to their advantage).

I agree. I think it was marvel heroes where each additional attacker gave a plus one to any action made by the group, so ganging up was a big deal.

Sense it was a heroes game, you could attack a group with one move... but still, pretty sweet.
Title: Combat Conundrums - Multiple Opponents
Post by: jhkim on February 19, 2009, 12:07:17 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;283777Melee combat. You are outnumbered. How do you want the mechanics of the game to support this? What are you looking for in combats where one side outnumbers another - a mechanical reflection of that advantage, a grind until one side is defeated, but no other mechanical inteference, or something else? Genre can certainly effect the preference on a game by game basis, but what is your default preference, genre aside?
My preference depends completely on genre.  For most cinematic genres - especially martial arts, numbers on a side should add up less than linearly -- favoring the outnumbered.  I like how Ninja Hero, for example, has a penalty for multiple attackers.  Another approach is for multiple attackers to be treated as a single entity -- like in Spirit of the Century / FATE -- where the number adds up less than linearly.  

For realistic genres, a multiple attacker bonus is fine -- or conversely each character may have only a limited number of active defenses.  (I think I prefer the former.)