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Clockwork Publishing takes all our money and files for "insolvency"... How do you become insolvent 30 days after you make $40k? Tough $90 lesson... @gameontabletop #clockworkpublishing #darkconspiracy  - https://tinyurl.com/y2ywpdp7

(I have to admit. I was suspicious but I backed anyways. Damn if I would have just listened to my gut...)

OUCH

That hurts!

0_0

And here I didn't pledge because I hated the pitch. I guess I can find some console in that they won't be able to fuck up the franchise.

Dang.  I'm glad it was on gameontabletop instead of Kickstarter.  I might have fallen for it on Kickstarter, but I don't do Indiegogo or gameontabletop.

I almost backed.  Talk about a kick to the ass on the way out.

Yeah, almost backed that one, thank goodness I'm broke!

Man, that really sucks. I was looking forward to a Dark Conspiracy with decent rules. :(

Quote from: Dan Davenport;1090805Man, that really sucks. I was looking forward to a Dark Conspiracy with decent rules. :(

Seconded.

Man what a bunch of scam artists

Was there any suspicious behavior from Clockworks Publishing before this happened ?

I guess what I'm asking is: "How does one efficiently vet his Kickstarter subscriptions ?"

No, there wasn't any suspicious behavior. Clockwork have been around quite a while and have some very successful products (they have a very popular German language game, that I forget the name of, and a number of fairly big licenses). They've not said much about what happened but have said that this came out of the blue and was very sudden. They've talked about trying to get their kickstarters fulfilled and finding ways for various projects to continue but have, so far, been very cagey about addressing the reasons for the insolvency in any detail. I'm assuming that's because there's legal issues to consider.

For the record they fulfilled 3 kickstarters that I backed. The first one, the English translation of the Ubiquity-powered Space: 1889 core rulebook, was delivered very late but, in their defence, it was originally being run by Angus Abranson/Chronicle City and Clockwork stepped in and got things going again after Angus dropped off the face of the Earth for several months (maybe a year or more?). Without Clockwork stepping in and taking full control there wouldn't have been anything delivered at all.

I'm sad to see them go as I was looking forward to more Space: 1889 books, like the Luna sourcebook, in the future. I'm hoping someone picks up a few of their English-language projects soon.

Please note that they say they filed for insolvency, not bankruptcy. This means they expect to be back in business when the crisis is over. The CF might still be delivered at some point.

Well in the UK, from a legal perspective, bankruptcy is a form of insolvency and there are several other types of insolvency (I don't know how things work elsewhere). I was, however, speaking in purely layman's terms and I think most people (in the UK) use the two terms interchangeably. You're right though, they haven't been declared bankrupt by a court. As such I've edited my previous post for clarity and consistency.

There is talk about a Youtube live interview they will give to a German RPG channel, sometimes in the coming days, to answer questions. Apparently, they didn't take the money and run.

Quote from: Pyromancer;1090872There is talk about a Youtube live interview they will give to a German RPG channel, sometimes in the coming days, to answer questions. Apparently, they didn't take the money and run.

I read somewhere that the live streaming event is an internal thing, for employees and contractors, and not for public consumption. Still sounds like they are working on keeping things going though and not just walking away from this.

Yeah, from the sounds of it, they are going to try to fulfill the Kickstarter so don't count them out yet.

Quote from: pdboddy;1090878Yeah, from the sounds of it, they are going to try to fulfill the Kickstarter so don't count them out yet.

It's no longer in their hands, as they have lost administrative control over their own company. All I can say is that they have an excellent reputation here in the German RPG community and continue to receive significant support. Details will emerge sooner or later and I'd motion to postpone all judgement until that happens.

Quote from: NinjaWeasel;1090877I read somewhere that the live streaming event is an internal thing, for employees and contractors, and not for public consumption. Still sounds like they are working on keeping things going though and not just walking away from this.

The Youtube interview is not going to happen but then again the people who used to run the company wouldn't have been able to make any statements that go beyond the press release in that interview anyway.

Quote from: trechriron;1090733Clockwork Publishing takes all our money and files for "insolvency"... How do you become insolvent 30 days after you make $40k?[/url]

That's not nearly enough money for what they were trying to produce.

If they manage to pull through this and fulfill their kickstarter it may well become the gold standard of how to handle these things.

It'd be nice to see that, even if the production values have to be rolled back or something.

I backed the kickstarter they did just before this one. (Mars for Space 1889)
There did not seem to be any problems with it.

I am pretty sure the current kickstarter isn't related to the situation...it just ended and even if they didn't have enough money it wouldn't have created an immediate insolvency situation.

If the 'out of the blue' is correct, I would imagine the courts will work with them.

Man I feel bad to all the people that backed this project.  You guys got the shafted.

Quote from: trechriron;1090733Clockwork Publishing takes all our money and files for "insolvency"... How do you become insolvent 30 days after you make $40k? Tough $90 lesson... @gameontabletop #clockworkpublishing #darkconspiracy  - https://tinyurl.com/y2ywpdp7

(I have to admit. I was suspicious but I backed anyways. Damn if I would have just listened to my gut...)

I'll add this over on BGG to the big list if someone hasnt allready.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1091006Man I feel bad to all the people that backed this project.  You guys got the shafted.

Katalyka recently went even more downhill when the designer told the backers "Sorry, moneys all gone. But heres a copy going to whomever offers the most. Oh and the rest of you backers can just buy it from my Facebook shop." Oh and she removed all the PNP files so backers cant even get that option.

Rather appalling how this went from bemusingly kooky to increasingly unpleasant.

Quote from: Omega;1091016Katalyka recently went even more downhill when the designer told the backers "Sorry, moneys all gone. But heres a copy going to whomever offers the most. Oh and the rest of you backers can just buy it from my Facebook shop." Oh and she removed all the PNP files so backers cant even get that option.

Rather appalling how this went from bemusingly kooky to increasingly unpleasant.

That's the one where the person literally went crazy and started hearing voices.

I'm surprised GMS hasn't tried that.

It's mighty suspicious to declare insolvency directly after a major cash infusion.

Let's hope the backers receive something.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091020It's mighty suspicious to declare insolvency directly after a major cash infusion.

Let's hope the backers receive something.

Well with Doom that Came to Atlantic City we started digging and I helped uncover Chevalier's scam as he was funnelling the money for the game into buying movie making equipment and making indie movies that he then tried to hide. State is still watching his income till he pays off the debt to the designers, artists and backers. All of which he ripped off.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091020It's mighty suspicious to declare insolvency directly after a major cash infusion.

Let's hope the backers receive something.

Agreed and seconded. It is one thing to declare insolvency before an infusion of cash. Doing it shortly after receiving money from a kickstarter is as you save mighty suspicious to myself as well imo. Yes things happen that one cannot control the timing is way too convenient for it thoug. My time passes the more I lose faith in Kickstarter and rpg companies who use it. Yes their have been successes with Kikcstarter for every success we seem to see double the amount of failures.

It's quite possible the insolvency is caused by tax depts. In Germany you need to pay whatever the revenue service forces you to pay at first.
There may be additional tax payments later in the year. You may have to pay unwarranted additional taxes first and in a second step you may file a complaint and then get your money back. However you first have to pay. Payment periods aren't that generous.

If you can't pay in the first place, you need to file for insolvency.


The insolvency started with Clockwork's subsidiary book publishing house Feder & Schwert and dragged Clockwork along.  
The incident took Clockwork by surprise.
Uhrwerk does have a very good reputation in Germany. Within the community and among freelancers. Here's a statement from Jason Durall (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/let%E2%80%99s-talk-about-dark-conspiracy-fourth-edition.844477/page-10#post-22636562) (line developer of Dark Conspiracy).

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091020It's mighty suspicious to declare insolvency directly after a major cash infusion.

While I understand Clockwork isn't that familiar on the english speaking market, you could have done your research instead of jumping directly to allegations.

Clockwork/Uhrwerk is maybe the most reliable, honest and open RPG Company in Germany.
Ulisses Spiele IMHO don't hold a candle to them.

Quote from: sureshot;1091046My time passes the more I lose faith in Kickstarter and rpg companies who use it.

I rarely support crowdfundings and even preorders. Most rpg companies are small ones, not that financially solvent. There's a long list of RPG companies who got bankrupt belly-up. So investment isn't without risk.
Then: CF tend to take forever to fulfill completely (2 years behind time isn't that rare). In the times between there can happen quite a lot in your life. And I don't like CF campaigns to be used as marketing campaigns.

People throwing money at rehashed RPGs that were crap to begin with.

Quote from: D.Athair;1094817Clockwork/Uhrwerk is maybe the most reliable, honest and open RPG Company in Germany.
Ulisses Spiele IMHO don't hold a candle to them.

I've watched PLENTY of the "most reliable, honest, blah blah" companies go bust and leave a trail of broken dreams.

The public perception of a company thanks to its carefully crafted public face and the reality within the company aren't always a match.

Quite often, the dichotomy is notably ugly.

Is that the case here? Who knows? We'll find out in the coming months.

How they treat their backers will be the key indicator.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1094846People throwing money at rehashed RPGs that were crap to begin with.

I've actually had more fun with Dark Conspiracy than Call of Cthulhu.

Quote from: D.Athair;1094817I rarely support crowdfundings and even preorders. Most rpg companies are small ones, not that financially solvent. There's a long list of RPG companies who got bankrupt belly-up. So investment isn't without risk.
Then: CF tend to take forever to fulfill completely (2 years behind time isn't that rare). In the times between there can happen quite a lot in your life. And I don't like CF campaigns to be used as marketing campaigns.

It's the only way you can see new RPG companies emerge. Modiphius went that way, for example. Owing to PDFs, it's about the only way to go.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1094846People throwing money at rehashed RPGs that were crap to begin with.

But D&D (any edition) is great?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094849The public perception of a company thanks to its carefully crafted public face and the reality within the company aren't always a match.

People in general not being good at discernment of spirits is a fact. If you're bad at it, OK.
You may stay skeptical. I'm not going to stop you. It's up to you!

Still there a disadvantage for most of the English speaking folks: Interaction with Patric Götz (owner) and employees is quite limited.
If you're not capable of the German language you can't collect the facts properly. There are obstacles to watching videos from the Orkenspalter TV team on YT (on their own channel and the one from Patric). There are obstacles to recollect how they communicated when translation licenses came to an end. There are very view experiences  with them dealing with mistakes and strokes of fate.

German speaking people may know a lot more.

Then: Insolvency is always a severe case. Nobody can tell for sure how it ends. It's unlikely nobody's gonna lose money.
Until now laws and protection of company interns guide the process (necessities for the company somehow to survive).
It may be more likely for Dark Conspiracy to not work out, when people are trying to get their money back and start losing faith.
The insolvency manager may not be that eager to put resources into that CF project when possible market shares run dry through distrust against the company. Especially when there are other CFs that may create good revenue and are more worthwhile pursuing.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1094860It's the only way you can see new RPG companies emerge. Modiphius went that way, for example.

It's not. There are lots of small publishers who started and prospered otherwise.
Modiphius took the CF road for rapid growth. Until now it worked out. John Wick tried to do the same and failed.

I'm not against CF. However I suppose one shouldn't fade out the risks.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1094846People throwing money at rehashed RPGs that were crap to begin with.

Oh, so you know how I feel about the OSR in general.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1094868Oh, so you know how I feel about the OSR in general.

Same can be said for the games you like too.  In fact most people tend to think tabletop rpgs in general are crap.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1094884Same can be said for the games you like too.  In fact most people tend to think tabletop rpgs in general are crap.

Well, a fair portion of the games I like are new iterations of older games so that could be true. On the other hand, I also like some games that have not been rehashed from earlier versions, and there the same cannot be said with any accuracy.

It seems there could be good news coming...  I may in fact not have tossed $90 into the toilet.

Quote from: Update EmailUpdate to the Dark Conspiracy Crowdfunding:

The insolvency administrator has used the last weeks to get familiar with the workings of the company and to look into various projects - of course including this crowdfunding.

And so far things are looking well: We are in productive talks with an English partner who offered to take over the full responsibility for this project (including all obligations toward you backers) and start work on the books again together with our editing and writing team. This way the fulfilment of the project would be guaranteed no matter what finally happens to Uhrwerk Verlag / Clockwork Publishing.

Since the discussions are ongoing and nothing has been finalized yet we can't give more details by order of the insolvency administrator, but we nonethelss wanted to give you guys a heads up since the last update was several weeks ago. We are expecting things to be wrapped up in the next couple of weeks and will of course make an announcement once everything is finalized.

---

Link to the project page: https://www.gameontabletop.com/crowdfunding-189.html

I highly doubt that the company went into the crowd funding campaign planning on going insolvent.
Next are you going to say Lee Garvin stole your money from the Tales from the Floating Vagabond Kickstarter Campaign because he had a life threatening illness, no medical insurance, lost his house, had to live out of his car and recently died?

Cos I'm about 99% sure that none of that was his master plan for the RPG.

I don't blame gamers for being worried about the company going insolvent.

Sure sometimes companies can and will do so. To do so right after a successful kickstarters does and should raise some worry and does come off as being sketchy imo.

Quote from: remial;1097414...his master plan for the RPG.

Wow. To unpack this shitpost...

First, you can't equate someone dying with a company going "insolvent" literally moments after a KS ends. You realize that you are an asshole for drawing such a conclusion. Sure, you projected that all over me like an anxious virgin touching himself for the first time, but nothing I said in fact mentioned anything about Lee.

Second, I supported Killing Lee Harvey KS and I fully trust Mr. Porter to ensure those funds get where they need to (he's coordinating with Lee's brother). See? I can support KS where things go sideways. Shit happens. I get it.

Third, I appreciate you must like this company and are butt-hurt that I would dare say something negative but I have $90 tied up in this. Also, maybe I was excited for this? And perhaps the timing of the announcement made me suspicious?

I imagine all the developers on this project are cool peeps. I have returned here to post new news and my small glimmer of hope.

I hope the devs can finish this and release it. I also hope they get paid because working for free sucks.

Remial, in the future if you need a huggy-poo-poo because you think I'm being mean, just PM me. I'll be happy to assuage your fears AND I'm happy to give out hugs. I may get snarky online but I'm not fucking evil.

Love,

NEWS about Dark Conspiracy... (I'm somewhat pleased. AA is a good chap!)

Quote from: Kickstarter EmailHi all,

Many thanks to Patric and the Clockwork Team for starting the project and bringing new life to Dark Conspiracy, even if things didn't go anywhere near as planned for them. Thanks also to all of you for backing the project here on Game On Tabletop and for still being here through thich and thin.

I'm here to finally announce that Dark Conspiracy has found a new home and we're planning on supporting all of you top make sure you get the game in your hands (or on your screens - depending on the levels you backed) and taking Dark Conspiracy forward.

I'm sure there will be a host of questions, but please bear with us whilst we find our feet with the project, the manuscripts and artwork, contact the authors and artists and finalise plans for getting the project finished and into your hands. If you'd like to drop me any questions on angus.abranson@gmail.com I'll collate them into a future post with answers so everyone can access them - a kind of mix between an AMA and a FAQ as such.

Thanks again for your patience and here's looking forward to getting some good hunting in...

Please find the announcement below

Angus Abranson / Amargosa Press

-----------------------------------------------

Amargosa Press Acquires Dark Conspiracy License

Amargosa Press has signed a multiyear licensing deal with GDW to create, support and publish a new edition of the Dark Conspiracy Tabletop Role-Playing Game.

Dark Conspiracy is a near future horror role-playing that was originally published by Games Design Workshop (GDW) in 1991, followed by a second edition in 1997 and a third in 2012. Most recently a new fourth edition was being developed by Clockwork Publishing before the company went into administration last year.

"It was important for us to make sure that the backers, artists and writers that had invested time and/or money in the Clockwork Publishing campaign were not left out of pocket. With this in mind we're reviewing the work done to date under Clockwork Publishing and will be using as much as possible in the new Amargosa Press edition, making sure that the artists and authors are fully paid. All backers of Uhrwerks Game On Tabletop crowdfunding campaign will also receive copies of the new edition, and appropriate supplements, so they are not out of pocket. Amargosa Press has not, and will not, be receiving any money from the Game On Tabletop campaign but will be looking at supporting those backers, many of whom have been core supporters of Dark Conspiracy for ears, and will hopefully continue to be for years to come."

"We have not put any provisional dates on the completion of the new rulebook, and supplements as yet, as we evaluate the existing manuscripts, art, and the plans that Clockwork Publishing had in place for the game. Obviously no work has taken place since Clockwork Publishing went into administration in June 2019, but we hope to move quickly now that the license has been agreed and assets have been transferred. Amargosa Press now also has access to the Game On Tabletop crowdfunding campaign platform so can keep backers updated directly going forward and build up engagement with the community and fanbase."

ABOUT DARK CONSPIRACY

In the all-too-near future, the world slides into the Greater Depression, the United States affected most dramatically. Nationalism surges, and the social safety net is in tatters. Corporations control governments openly, corruption is commonplace, and the citizenry is starkly divided between those who have and those who go without. Urban sprawl runs amok, and great metroplexes connect the great cities into teeming, soulless metropolises, their lights shining across the countryside.

The heartland of America is largely abandoned, the bread basket now empty. Law enforcement and the government have given up on these regions, and utilities are scarce and unreliable. Few can survive within these outlaw areas. Few humans, that is.

For in these forgotten and empty places in the rust belt, the tissue of reality tears wide, and energy from nightmare dimensions and planes of utter terror seep into this world. These places, called demongrounds, grow more substantial, expanding each day, and creatures from these hell-places walk freely there, and from the demongrounds they infiltrate the metroplexes to feed their inhuman hungers and bring ruin to all.

Some of these strange and terrible creatures are remembered through folklore and legend -- monsters such as vampires, demons, ghouls, and their like -- while others are utterly fantastic, extradimensional and alien beings from beyond time and space. Together, these minions of darkness are opposed to all life, and they struggle to extinguish the last lights of human civilization.

Some few stand against them, humans banded together and armed against these dreadful forces of darkness. These minion hunters stalk them in the cities and even in the demongrounds, but the greatest challenge they face is the realization that these monsters do not work alone: they are aided by humans who have made terrible pacts with the forces of darkness, selling out their own kind for power and survival.

This is the world of DARK CONSPIRACY.

ABOUT AMARGOSA PRESS

Amargosa Press are a British based design studio headed by Angus Abranson (co-founder of Cubicle 7) which has provided design work, and consultation, for a number of tabletop RPP publishers. Dark Conspiracy is the first game to be announced that will be published by the company.

I've got a game on my harddrive that's a blend of Mutant Chronicles and Dark Conspiracy mechanically.  Really, Nepharites, necromutants, ezoghouls, and zombie, screaming, and heretic legionaires would all blend into Dark Conspiracy with very little work.

Quote from: David Johansen;1128289I've got a game on my harddrive that's a blend of Mutant Chronicles and Dark Conspiracy mechanically.  Really, Nepharites, necromutants, ezoghouls, and zombie, screaming, and heretic legionaires would all blend into Dark Conspiracy with very little work.

And keeping that contained to your hard drive is just plain evil, man. EVIL!

You wouldn't believe some of the things that are sitting half finished on my hard drive.  That one's been in my thoughts again just lately.  I did a whole stack of artwork for it a couple years ago while my boss was on vacation.  I even managed to playtest it once.  Sadly I'd gone with a level based system and it really should be a lifepath.  I don't have any webspace right now but I've put designs up on the design forum before and I could do that again.  Tables are problematic of course.  Maybe if the Covid-19 actually gets me some paid time off I'll get it sorted out.

Quote from: David Johansen;1128310You wouldn't believe some of the things that are sitting half finished on my hard drive.  That one's been in my thoughts again just lately.  I did a whole stack of artwork for it a couple years ago while my boss was on vacation.  I even managed to playtest it once.  Sadly I'd gone with a level based system and it really should be a lifepath.  I don't have any webspace right now but I've put designs up on the design forum before and I could do that again.  Tables are problematic of course.  Maybe if the Covid-19 actually gets me some paid time off I'll get it sorted out.

Hell. I still have an unfinished manuscript for a Rifts product that was given to me after the writer got totally fed up dealing with Kevin and just quit, and quit gaming totally. I havent heard from him in a very very long time and Im still plugging away at doing art for it and releasing it as some sort of web thing some day.

Talked some years ago with the folk who were working on the ambitious Champions PC game back in the 90s. According to them it was 75% or more done when funding ran out and the crew disbanded.

I have some un-published stuff for various venues myself that are sitting stillborn as this or that problem killed off the venue while I was working.

"Nationalism surges"

LOL. Glad I have a POD of Dark Conspiracy 1e.

Quote from: David Johansen;1128289I've got a game on my harddrive that's a blend of Mutant Chronicles and Dark Conspiracy mechanically.  Really, Nepharites, necromutants, ezoghouls, and zombie, screaming, and heretic legionaires would all blend into Dark Conspiracy with very little work.

I was thinking about doing a version of DOOM that was basically Mutant chronicles before the destruction of Earth...and then I thought. Military campaigns are difficult to make interesting, why not set it in the near future and make it an investigative game and then I come here.... damn you!

Of course, in a modern setting, the Nepharites have to hide out in the shadow citadels hidden in the negative space between skyscrapers.  They may have been human once, maybe, but now they're eight feet tall and have weird horns growing out of their heads.  The necromutants do a bit better, having had a run in action movies during the eighties and one of them even managed to get elected governor of California.  The Screaming and Heretic Legionairies blend in with the stoners and the protesters on both sides they don't really understand what they're doing but they can shout slogans and shove people. it's a crowd and with just a little extra rage a crowd can turn into a mob.  Semi and Illan are predominant but Algeroth dabbles in international conflicts where he can.  Demnogonis just scored a big hit on the world's health care systems and pinned it on China.

Cool stories. You should spawn some new threads about your homebrews (which is cool btw) so this thread can stay on track...

Sure, here: https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42097-Modern-Mess&p=1131048#post1131048

It took me a couple weeks to revise it and I'm afraid your thread would have lived longer with the derail than without it.