This a little off topic, and I might late to the party, but as there are a lot of fan of the game I thought it worth mentioning the the Amber series is going to be turned into a TV series
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/game-of-thrones-chronicles-of-amber-tv-series-the-walking-dead-robert-kirkman-george-rr-martin-roger-a7146491.html
Amber was the first game I've ever GMed. Not sure I'd run it again these days but it will always have a special place in my heart for that.
Quote from: Soylent Green;909139the Amber series is going to be turned into a TV series
Amber TV series! YAY!
QuoteRobert Kirkman
...oh God... No...
Ah, well, I'm gonna see it anyway.
Sci-Fi has had the movie rights since the 90's. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Shall we reboot the immortal casting thread?
Reminds me I should look up the ill fated White Wolf Vampire TV series.
At least it won't be a generation Z teen story like Chronicles of Shannara.
Quote from: daniel_ream;909157Sci-Fi has had the movie rights since the 90's. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Shall we reboot the immortal casting thread?
Starring:
Gabourey Sidibe as Corwin...
This could be excellent. Largely (not entirely) a timeless series. And personally I think Kirkman is pretty damn good.
Zelazny wrote these books flying by the seat of his pants and they could be both expanded upon and tightened up in ways that still remain true to the core bad-ass premise.
Quote from: Manzanaro;909272This could be excellent.
I would disagree. Corwin is a smoking, hard-drinking,
noir protagonist who hits women. I think much of what it would take to make it palatable to today's audiences would rob it of its flavour. If they're planning on following the Mad Men/Game of Thrones "no good guys" model that can work.
While Kirkman is obviously best know for the Walking Dead, I was introduced to his work via through this stint on the Marvel Two-in-One comic. Marvel Two-in-One doesn't normally feature top tier writing, even by comicbook standards, but his work was clever, funny and with precise but efficient characterisations.
Oh no. Walking Dead speed of plot.
Quote from: daniel_ream;909292I would disagree. Corwin is a smoking, hard-drinking, noir protagonist who hits women. I think much of what it would take to make it palatable to today's audiences would rob it of its flavour. If they're planning on following the Mad Men/Game of Thrones "no good guys" model that can work.
"No Good Guys" is pretty much true to Amber.
We will see. People will expect Game of Thrones level budget and I wonder if Amber will be done on the cheap instead.
Quote from: Spinachcat;909449We will see. People will expect Game of Thrones level budget and I wonder if Amber will be done on the cheap instead.
Come to think about it, Amber happens more "outside", rather than "inside". Plenty of varied landscapes, constructions, fighting on the way... It's a road story.
On one hand it's less props, on the other - locations and CGI...
I wonder how does that influence the required budget.
Kirkman and Skybound are pretty big names in TV these days, with Walking Dead closing this last season as the number one show on TV. If they do this on a shoestring budget, somebody needs to get their head examined.
Considering both the success and the finite nature of the Game of Thrones series, it's not surprising that they're looking for more adult orientated fantasy IPs to option. The Amber Chronicles happen to be one of the best.
I'm a huge fan of Amber, so this excites me quite a bit. I'm not sure if they will do a "good" job or if their images will match the images in my head, but I've long feared that the Amber franchise is fading away and this TV series would seem to be a way to reverse that trend. Looking forward to seeing what they can put together! :)
Maybe we will see an Amber RPG published by a company people actually want to do business with.
Come on guys.
Corwin. Who should be cast as Corwin? ;)
(http://media.mehrnews.com/d/2015/08/22/3/1801719.jpg?ts=1468326502805)
Once upon a time I'd have suggested Bruce Campbell. He has the look and the sardonic mien, but he's gotten way too old. Remember, for all the scions of Amber you need someone who can pass as "mid-thirties". I don't know enough young actors.
Actors still in their 30s, hmm. Most of the usual Amber suspects are in their 40s. Here's a list of 30's (http://www.imdb.com/list/ls030762284/)
Lot of guys there that could play an amazing piehole.
I was actually just thinking Andrew Garfield for Random. (My first choice was Denis Leary XD )
Damn it! Now I have to reread the Chronicles of Amber and try to find my copy of Amber Diceless RPG. Oh, my life is constant suffering.
I could see Matthew Gray Gubler as Random pretty easily...
Sean Bean as Oberon?
My daughter has gotten me watching MTV's Teen Wolf show and they have actors in their late 20's who are playing teenagers. I suspect that this would be the kind of approach they would take for an Amber series -- they need folks who won't show real aging for several years, and they want folks who won't cost them a lot to cast. (Probably not as young as in TW, but you get the idea.)
I would love to see someone like Sean Bean as Oberon, but I suspect he would be too high-priced and we'll wind up with a cast of unknowns. When I watch Walking Dead I hardly ever see an actor I recognize from anywhere else...
A cast of unknowns could be good. Look at Tim Burton's Batman and tell me you don't see the villain as "Jack Nicholson in makeup". Unknowns carry less baggage with them.
Quote from: remial;909555Sean Bean as Oberon?
Well, Ganelon. I don't think we ever see Oberon as Oberon at any point in the Corwin chronicles.
Quote from: daniel_ream;909600Well, Ganelon. I don't think we ever see Oberon as Oberon at any point in the Corwin chronicles.
In "9 Princes" Corwin studies Oberon's Trump card and exchanges a few words with him. Depending on how the director would approach that, it's a possibility for Oberon's presentation.
And heck, Sean Bean would be great as Oberon.
I'd also want to see Johnny Deep as Random. :D
And Kim Kold as Gerard. :cool:
Quote from: JesterRaiin;909608In "9 Princes" Corwin studies Oberon's Trump card and exchanges a few words with him. Depending on how the director would approach that, it's a possibility for Oberon's presentation.
I agree. With the perspective of all ten novels to draw from, I can see a director trying to use foreshadow and blending together events from book to book instead of a straight linear retelling of the story. Who knows which characters might appear in which places in the series storyline.
Colour me very interested.
Also makes me want to run another Amber game -- only ever ran the one. Man I love those books. Got some audio recordings of the first five I should dig up, maybe I can find a way to listen to them on the drive to GenCon.
One has to wonder just how psychedelic they'll make some of the walking through shadow. From a story point, the most interesting thing may be that we get to see events from multiple perspectives. I suspect it will be fairly linear, there's enough stuff going on that making it too blended might be deemed "confusing"" but you never know.
As for Kirkman being involved . . . I've never been interested in Walking Dead, but I enjoy my monthly dose of Invincible.
Quote from: Thondor;909636From a story point, the most interesting thing may be that we get to see events from multiple perspectives.
I think this could make or break the show. Much of what makes Amber what it is is the First Person Unreliable Narrator.
Quote from: daniel_ream;909688I think this could make or break the show. Much of what makes Amber what it is is the First Person Unreliable Narrator.
Perhaps, but getting to see various viewpoints could be interesting as well. The whole "who knew what and when" issue.
While Corwin is my favorite Prince, personally I think that I would have enjoyed if RZ had written his Amber books again from a different character's perspective just to see how others viewed similar events. That could turn out to be the strength of an Amber TV series.
The bigger question will be. "How much they actually use and how much is just pure concoction?"
EG: The two Earthsea movies, chunks of the LOTR/Hobbit movies, the recent Whisperer in Darkness movie, and so on which diverge sometimes quite a bit.
Quote from: finarvyn;909705While Corwin is my favorite Prince, personally I think that I would have enjoyed if RZ had written his Amber books again from a different character's perspective just to see how others viewed similar events. That could turn out to be the strength of an Amber TV series.
I think you're losing a great deal if you try to Rashomon Corwin's Chronicles. A big part of the strength of Zelazny's writing is that Corwin's narrative is so compelling that you quickly forget that he told you up front he's lying, and that his story is full of contradictions that can't be resolved and Zelazny never draws attention to this. It's one of the reasons the Chronicles reward repeat reading; in a volume that large, there will always be new inconsistencies or shades of meaning to discover. A TV series has to be third-person omniscient POV, and I think you lose a lot if the show outright squawks "See? See? Corwin can't be trusted, hey? Hey?"
To my mind, making a completely faithful adaptation of a piece of fiction is like doing a completely faithful cover song: kind of boring and pointless.
The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, and Preacher are some recent examples of what I consider to be good adaptations. Stick to the spirit and premise of the core material, but don't be afraid of diverging or going entirely off script. If I want the original I can always read the original. Me and a friend of mine were talking about this series and he said, "It could ruin the books". I don't even understand that attitude. The original books aren't going anywhere. And honestly? If the Merlin books couldn't ruin the Corwin books for me? I don't think there is much that can. ;)
I really don't see a chapter by chapter adaptation even being likely to be successful. Ensemble casts are the way to go, and the Amber books have all the makings of a really excellent ensemble show, which I am fairly confident Kirkman has considered.
Man, would I love a "Jack of Shadows" mini-series...
Hated jack of shadows for some reason.
Batista for Gerald.
No fucking Johny Dep any where near this series.
I liked Jack of Shadows because it was written in the same basic style as Amber and a few of Zelazny's other stories. (Lord Demon, Changeling, A Dark Travelling, and Dilvish come to mind. Nice action, some sarcasm.) On the other hand, it was a bit of an odd character and an odd storyline.
Idrus Elba for Ganalon.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]278[/ATTACH]
Peter Dinklage for Random
[ATTACH=CONFIG]277[/ATTACH]
I was talking on Quora about how nine princess would make a great TV show.
You start from the Corwin perspective because it introduces the premise and the characters and you can start from the mundane and add the fantasy slowly thus drawing in the more reluctant viewer. This is the same route GOT took.
Corwin's chronicles are really well paced for a TV adaptation as well with 3 or possible 4 series of 10 episodes kind of writing themselves.
Casting is tougher and you have two choices, stay with US based largely unknowns as they do with teen wolf, Supergirl, The Originals etc etc . Now GOT has shown that shifting to the UK gives you a better range of cheaper actors and you get less plastic looking people. Now If you look at the cast of say Originals or the Vampire Diaries the acting and scripting isn't the best but they look pretty.
You do have to realise that the Amber market is smaller than GOT at first at least. the books were never that big, never on the new york best seller list and the readership is old, but they are great books...
Cast wise when this was first mooted in the early 90s I think I had Christian Slater as Random, Ollie Reed as Ganelon, later I thought as did all the fanbois that Viggo would make a great Benedict however....
Realistically you have to look at current TV shows rather than movies. You might get the odd cameo for a part but you need to look to realistic casting.
Corwin - Tom Mison from Sleepy Hollow would be good, but busy and probably wants to avoid type casting. I would look to Matthew Goode, he has a bitty movie list but did a series of Downton so not adverse to telly. Professional goof CV, recognizable but not a face.
Brand - Jason Flemyng - his movie career seems to have tanked so this might be a good role or Stuart Townsend
Bleys - Matt Ryan - he was okay in Constantine despite the script/plot he can do cocky and charming so but too old for Random.
Julian - Weirdly I think Orlando Bloom could do this. His movie career has tanked and this type of high profile cameo role might work for him. But if we already have enough names then we need to get a solid Telly actor maybe Richard Armitage.
Eric - Kevin Ryan
Benedict - left feild I wonder if we could persuade Sasha Baron Cohen....
One thing that would have to be done for a modern Adaptation would be to strengthen the female roles.
It's called Nine Princes for a reason. The Prinesess are there but they aren't really important. With the possible exception of Fauna, the red headed Sorceres.
Oh Christ, let's not start doing a casting thread! Those are always ridiculous.
Quote from: RPGPundit;911585Oh Christ, let's not start doing a casting thread! Those are always ridiculous.
Fair enough. Then tell me how to update the story for a modern audience with 2 genders instead of just one.
Gender flip Eric? Beef up the princess as active participants in the family politics?
Add more people of color too.
As some people pointed out, the biggest issue is the unreliable narrator voice that the novels had.
HOWEVER, you can bypass that issue by having the narrator (played by the same actor) describing things as they go along.
Quote from: Headless;911660Fair enough. Then tell me how to update the story for a modern audience with 2 genders instead of just one.
Gender flip Eric? Beef up the princess as active participants in the family politics?
The series as a whole is very 1970's politically incorrect, what with all the unapologetic smoking and woman-slapping. It's very Chandler-esque. Again, I'm not sure you could do the series faithfully for F/SF audiences today. (Yes, I know about Mad Men and Hell on Wheels &c.; I'm talking
F/SF audiences, who are thoroughly feminized into pearl-clutching at the slightest hint of manliness.)
Much of Zelazny's late 60s and early 70s writing was, at its core, a take no shit 50s man moving through a trippy 60s world.
But even in Zelazny's work, this didn't always work out ideally for the men. And you can absolutely portray sexist attitudes in modern media; you just don't want to portray those attitudes as unerringly accurate.
Quote from: daniel_ream;912019The series as a whole is very 1970's politically incorrect, what with all the unapologetic smoking and woman-slapping. It's very Chandler-esque. Again, I'm not sure you could do the series faithfully for F/SF audiences today. (Yes, I know about Mad Men and Hell on Wheels &c.; I'm talking F/SF audiences, who are thoroughly feminized into pearl-clutching at the slightest hint of manliness.)
So my defination of feminism: The radical idea that women are people.
I don't think Amber is sexist just disinterested in women. Which makes it sexist though not blatantly so.
And smoking. Come on smoking is cool and if you are imortal why not?
A modern audience deserves to see them selfs on screen. So women and people of color and Peter Dinklage.
Quote from: Headless;912041So my defination of feminism: The radical idea that women are people.
No one gives a damn about your definition of feminism.
QuoteI don't think Amber is sexist just disinterested in women. Which makes it sexist though not blatantly so.
If you think you could get away with airing the scene where Corwin slaps Flora to calm her down on TV - even premium cable TV - and remain a sympathetic protagonist to the audience, I wish you the very best of luck in your career as a producer.
QuoteAnd smoking. Come on smoking is cool and if you are imortal why not?
Yes, thank God they invented the, you know, whatever device.
QuoteA modern audience deserves to see them selfs on screen. So women and people of color and Peter Dinklage.
Didn't we have this bullshit thread already?
So amber never knew it was a book series and im always up for more fantasy on tv on the other hand live action ewwwwww.
Quote from: daniel_ream;912019The series as a whole is very 1970's politically incorrect, what with all the unapologetic smoking and woman-slapping. It's very Chandler-esque. Again, I'm not sure you could do the series faithfully for F/SF audiences today. (Yes, I know about Mad Men and Hell on Wheels &c.; I'm talking F/SF audiences, who are thoroughly feminized into pearl-clutching at the slightest hint of manliness.)
If its going to be politically correct bull shit i dont want it.
and you can most certainly have strong men on tv.
If the men are like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTewk-1CTNw
the women simply need to be more this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55Z7sr8mHI
and it can very much balance out.
or for another example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynffb7G_oIs
Quote from: daniel_ream;912046No one gives a damn about your definition of feminism.
If you think you could get away with airing the scene where Corwin slaps Flora to calm her down on TV - even premium cable TV - and remain a sympathetic protagonist to the audience, I wish you the very best of luck in your career as a producer.
Yes, thank God they invented the, you know, whatever device.
Didn't we have this bullshit thread already?
I thought a basic reason to participate in an online form was because you were interested in what other people had to say. I provided a definition because I thought we were starting to talk about it, you brought it up. If you don't like my definition provide a different one. It helps to know what other people mean when they use certain words.
I don't remember Corwin slapping Flora so I guess they could cut it with out really damaging the story. Flora is a bit of a problem. She is really a Sansa Stark, so as long as their is an Arya and a Denaryis no problem. There's a Fi and a Dara, but I'm not sure if they are in the story enough. BUt they might be. I would even consider they stories have enough female representation as is, but you said they didn't so I am supporting your point.
Don't know what device you are talking about.
If we had this discussion already I missed it. And if you are done with this thread don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Let's face it, it's going to suck. The production values will be extremely high, the state of special effects is certainly good enough for Shadow Walking and other things to be excellent, but what they do with the adaptation is going to make it not Amber. On thing that I strongly fear they will do is update the Shadow Earth setting into current times, not the late 60s - early 70s that it was written in and I think that will spoil things. They are also probably going to try and make it more inclusive, which I can understand to a certain extent, but even when it was written SF&F was already inclusive in characters and Zelazny chose to not make it so in the main characters. What they come up with may even be watchable, at least if you haven't read the books, but it won't be Amber.
Quote from: SionEwig;912177[...]when it was written SF&F was already inclusive in characters and Zelazny chose to not make it so in the main characters.
Just about everything Zelazny wrote is unapologetically regressively male, and often told by a first-person narrator who is sardonic and introspective.
I'm coming around to the notion that the only way Amber can be done at all is to abandon the first-person unreliable narrator stance and just go for epic fantasy. It won't feel like the books, but that's okay; adaptations are their own thing.
Quote from: SionEwig;912177Let's face it, it's going to suck. The production values will be extremely high, the state of special effects is certainly good enough for Shadow Walking and other things to be excellent, but what they do with the adaptation is going to make it not Amber. On thing that I strongly fear they will do is update the Shadow Earth setting into current times, not the late 60s - early 70s that it was written in and I think that will spoil things. They are also probably going to try and make it more inclusive, which I can understand to a certain extent, but even when it was written SF&F was already inclusive in characters and Zelazny chose to not make it so in the main characters. What they come up with may even be watchable, at least if you haven't read the books, but it won't be Amber.
For this kind of TV show they've pretty much got to make it ensemble which means it's not all going to get told from Corwin's perspective which changes things a lot.
As for not making everyone white, TV shows do a shitty job of making siblings look like siblings. It'd make things easier for the viewer if they had all of the Amberites' mothers be of different races and the kids look like that so it'd be easier to keep track of which Amberites are full siblings.
Quote from: Daztur;912225I'd make things easier for the fewer if they had all of the Amberites' mothers be of different races and the kids look like that so it'd be easier to keep track of which Amberites are full siblings.
I think this is an excellent idea.
I was watching one of my daughter's shows (Teen Wolf, I think) and remarked how half of the characters looked alike. Oh, look, another brunette girl with the same hair style. Who is she, again?
I get tired of everyone looking the same, and having some diversity in the mothers would certainly lead to an interesting diversity of the children. The only problem is that this may take some of the spoilers out of the series, if it becomes too obvious as to who is related to whom.
Quote from: finarvyn;912283I think this is an excellent idea.
I was watching one of my daughter's shows (Teen Wolf, I think) and remarked how half of the characters looked alike. Oh, look, another brunette girl with the same hair style. Who is she, again?
I get tired of everyone looking the same, and having some diversity in the mothers would certainly lead to an interesting diversity of the children. The only problem is that this may take some of the spoilers out of the series, if it becomes too obvious as to who is related to whom.
So what you're saying is that you want them colour coded for your convenience, kinda like superhero costumes?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;912288So what you're saying is that you want them colour coded for your convenience, kinda like superhero costumes?
Yes! That would be nice, thanks! :D
Quote from: Christopher Brady;912288So what you're saying is that you want them colour coded for your convenience, kinda like superhero costumes?
Um, yes? When we read books they just give us the name when a character shows up (usually) but in TV shows it's a lot harder. In Game of Thrones people who haven't read the books have a hell of a time keeping all of the grizzled men in dark leather apart (they really should have put REALLY obvious house sigils on EVERYONE'S clothes). With Amber it's important people can keep track of who is who without having name tags. Having the red heads be red heads is a big help but making it really obvious who share the same mothers would really help since Hollywood generally does not prioritize showing family resemblance in casting at all.
I feel about this the same way as when I was a child and my parents said "we're saving up, and we're going to go on a vacation this summer!". Yeah. That would be wonderful. I'll believe it when I see it. It may happen. But I'm crossing my arms in the meantime and furrowing my brow skeptically.
//Panjumanju
Mercifully I am not into the Amber series and so if Hollywood fucks it up. Well what else is new? No adaption to TV or the big screen remains faithful. Someone somewhere has to change something. Usually alot of something.
And honestly Im sick and tired of the whole inclusionism spiel.
TV and movies have become 70s Saturday Morning Cartoons where you have to include a couple of ethnics, maybe a handicapper, and at least one pet and/or a kid sidekick if they arent all kids.
So what sort of pet will Corwin get?
Quote from: Daztur;912447With Amber it's important people can keep track of who is who without having name tags.
How fortunate, then, that every scion of Amber has a habit of dressing in their personal colours.
Quote from: daniel_ream;912471How fortunate, then, that every scion of Amber has a habit of dressing in their personal colours.
But that's not enough for some people! They must have different races! (I'm being facetious and silly.) :D (ANd I really shoulda put a smiley on my original post about this.)
Quote from: Omega;912465So what sort of pet will Corwin get?
Pikachu. That way they will catch the 20 and under demographic. :D
Quote from: Christopher Brady;912472But that's not enough for some people! They must have different races! (I'm being facetious and silly.) :D (ANd I really shoulda put a smiley on my original post about this.)
I just chalk it up to more "I don't actually know anything about this hobby/IP/work, but by God I Have Opinions That Must Be Countenanced" virtue-signalling. Of all the flimsy SJW fig leafs for demanding affirmative action casting, "you have to be able to tell the characters apart" is possibly the most risible when applied to the Chronicles.
Quote from: daniel_ream;912493I just chalk it up to more "I don't actually know anything about this hobby/IP/work, but by God I Have Opinions That Must Be Countenanced" virtue-signalling. Of all the flimsy SJW fig leafs for demanding affirmative action casting, "you have to be able to tell the characters apart" is possibly the most risible when applied to the Chronicles.
You clearly are very upset about something. I am not entirely sure what. The suggestion was that making if their mothers all had different skin tones it would allow for a needed level of diversity to the cast. The idea that color coding the charcters for ease of reference was added as a secondary advantage.
It's true the charcters dress in their personal colors, but full siblings colors aren't related as far as I remember. Perhaps color coding the siblings would make it too easy to tell who is allied with whom. We would not want an audience to say " the Asians are the mistics, The blacks are the bad guys and the Mediterraneans are trying to stay out of it." I think that would have the opposite effect as what we were looking for.
As for virtue signalling while I am not sure what that means, isn't your condemnation of social justice warriors just as much a declaration of tribal loyalties?
Quote from: Headless;912503it would allow for a needed level of diversity to the cast.
Begging the question.
QuoteAs for virtue signalling while I am not sure what that means, isn't your condemnation of social justice warriors just as much a declaration of tribal loyalties?
So if I say Nazis are bad, that makes me a Jew?
Can we lay off the absolute statements? They're unproductive and misrepresenting the conversation. Please?
Quote from: finarvyn;912484Pikachu. That way they will catch the 20 and under demographic. :D
Dude pokemon is 20 years old there are adult fans who are now playing with there kids hell the average age of pokemon fans is on the rise.