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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: David Johansen on March 06, 2017, 12:48:21 am

Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: David Johansen on March 06, 2017, 12:48:21 am
Well, since The Pundit is talking about authentic medieval rpgs I thought I'd start a thread on the grand daddy of them all, Chivalry and Sorcery.  The backstory is a couple guys from Alberta Canada went to a very early Gen Con and took their document Chevalier to the TSR booth, all full of hopes and dreams and visions of glory and got laughed out of the booth.  So, they hooked up with Fantasy Games Unlimited to bring the world C&S.  Now I've owned and read first edition C&S.  And it's not really clear at times but it's not half as bad as people say.  I also played and owned and DMed third edition before whatever drama it was killed it off.  I'll confess that I never bought into fourth.  Third was interesting but there were some unintended consequences in terms of first level characters that could rip trolls limb from limb.  I've got a copy of The Dragon Reaches of Markush by the fourth edition guys.  It's a decent enough medival fantasy setting.  Nothing spectacular or new really though it does get into the issues associated with having a dragon for a king.  Well done just not really remarkable.

Oh well, anyhow, I'm known for my love of baroque and bizarre systems and I'm a big fan of knights and castles and such like. I won't deny that C&S somewhat inspired The Arcane Confabulation.  So, are there any C&S fans around here?  Did anyone get second edition?  I always wanted it but that big, fat box was $35.  I've heard the saurians supplement was pretty good.  Did anyone use their "award winning" miniatures rules?  Bireme and Galley?

I'd like to hear about it.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Voros on March 06, 2017, 03:27:22 am
I like some of the setting detail but I can't recall which edition I read back in the day. I'd pick up a hardcopy of it for that alone.  4th edition is free on Drivethru for those who want to check it out. (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/142316/Chivalry--Sorcery-4th-Edition?manufacturers_id=3675)
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Hermes Serpent on March 06, 2017, 04:53:15 am
I loved C&S back  in the day, replaced all my fantasy role playing with the one red book and the later three books (2nd ed). My brother wrote up the Forester for 2nd and played a necromancer in Ed's campaign for some time. I wrote material for later editions, Knights and Armourers Companions, and still have occasional attempts to get the game going for Rebirth every now and again.

Very fond memories of C&S. I picked up a copy of 2nd ed again recently (all my original C&S material was left in the States when I moved back to the UK) and would love to get some of the 2nd ed supplements, Saurians, Swords and Sorcerers, Sourcebooks one and two, Destrier, Bireme and Galley - those plans were great for boarding actions.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Larsdangly on March 06, 2017, 12:42:10 pm
C&S is the bees knees. It delivers everything it promises, just in a package that made more sense in 1977 than it does to a modern eye. I recommend 1st edition, both because it is often most interesting to read an author's first take on a creative idea, when the inspiration is still fresh, and because it is actually the best single volume presentation of the game. 2nd edition is more or less the same material re-organized and re presented (but also redacted of some cool material). 3rd edition did nothing to improve the brand. 4th edition heads off in directions that can only be described as heavily system-focused. Basically, they decided to 'fix' all the arbitrary mechanics in the original game, and ended up climbing up their own asses in an effort to present the most detailed and realistic possible presentation of skills, armor, etc. for a medieval game. The end result is a very solid game and better, just in a design sense, than anything that came before. But at a heavy cost: there is basically no anima left in the books because all the cool stuff that made C&S unique were left on the cutting room floor.

I could go on and on; I played and ran a ton of this game, own a complete set of all 1st edition materials in beautifully preserved copies (as well as later editions), and I often go to these books for ideas in my own game design projects. I don't have the time or inclination to spew all my thoughts into one post, but ask away if you are interested about anything in particular!
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: David Johansen on March 06, 2017, 01:58:22 pm
Third edition's skill scape system isn't terrible but I think the implementation of the magic system is.  Too many D&D spells.  I do like that a high level spell caster can do things like calling up a hurricane.  I always want magic to be capable of truly epic scope at high levels.  It's sad to hear that fourth edition carried on down the stale and mechanical path.  It was supposed to restore some of the character to the system.  Actually I was very disappointed that they never did the sf version.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: AsenRG on March 06, 2017, 04:51:47 pm
Quote from: Larsdangly;949560
C&S is the bees knees. It delivers everything it promises, just in a package that made more sense in 1977 than it does to a modern eye. I recommend 1st edition, both because it is often most interesting to read an author's first take on a creative idea, when the inspiration is still fresh, and because it is actually the best single volume presentation of the game. 2nd edition is more or less the same material re-organized and re presented (but also redacted of some cool material). 3rd edition did nothing to improve the brand. 4th edition heads off in directions that can only be described as heavily system-focused. Basically, they decided to 'fix' all the arbitrary mechanics in the original game, and ended up climbing up their own asses in an effort to present the most detailed and realistic possible presentation of skills, armor, etc. for a medieval game. The end result is a very solid game and better, just in a design sense, than anything that came before. But at a heavy cost: there is basically no anima left in the books because all the cool stuff that made C&S unique were left on the cutting room floor.

I could go on and on; I played and ran a ton of this game, own a complete set of all 1st edition materials in beautifully preserved copies (as well as later editions), and I often go to these books for ideas in my own game design projects. I don't have the time or inclination to spew all my thoughts into one post, but ask away if you are interested about anything in particular!

OK, seems like you're the one to ask:).

If one is not not looking for inspiration, just for correct setting information and mechanics that represent it well, which edition would you recommend?
Assume that the question of "is this mechanic too heavy" is meaningless to the one asking;).
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Arminius on March 06, 2017, 06:31:48 pm
I've had the boxed set on my shelf for decades now. Can't quite get myself to part with it but I haven't looked too closely either. There was a forum dedicated to it; dunno if it's still around.

(For something which I imagine is somewhat similar if simpler system-wise, there's the even more obscure Shades of Fantasy. By similar I mean that it tends to take the process of turning fantasy into an RPG almost de novo, avoiding a lot of D&Disms and then adding its own bits of weirdness.)
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Spellslinging Sellsword on March 06, 2017, 08:01:09 pm
I bought 3rd edition and 4th edition (aka Rebirth) from the local gaming store when they were out. Ran a few sessions of 4th edition using the I.C.E. Robin Hood book. Moved shortly after starting that campaign, so it didn't go any length. Recently started a Mythras campaign and used the father's vocation tables from C&S as I like them better than the ones in Mythras.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: trechriron on March 06, 2017, 08:32:12 pm
One of my gamer friends (Lloyd Wiebe - RIP bro) knew the creators and play-tested the game for them. I just had to pop in and give Lloyd the spiritual shout out. Man I miss the Professor. :-(
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Larsdangly on March 06, 2017, 10:50:12 pm
Quote from: AsenRG;949592
OK, seems like you're the one to ask:).

If one is not not looking for inspiration, just for correct setting information and mechanics that represent it well, which edition would you recommend?
Assume that the question of "is this mechanic too heavy" is meaningless to the one asking;).

If you want a game book that talks you through things like social hierarchies, designing feudal estates, etc. then 1st edition is the one to get (just get a magnifying glass because the text is tiny!). Every subsequent edition of the game presented less and less of this. Actually 4E does make an effort to re-introduce it, but the treatment in 1E is very 'gamist' - i.e., full of details you can use to play at the table - whereas the 4E treatment is more like what you would pick up from your own reading in the non-fiction section in local library.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: David Johansen on March 07, 2017, 12:17:02 am
Quote from: trechriron;949633
One of my gamer friends (Lloyd Wiebe - RIP bro) knew the creators and play-tested the game for them. I just had to pop in and give Lloyd the spiritual shout out. Man I miss the Professor. :-(

II used to know a guy who had Ed Simbalist for a math teacher.  Are you in Alberta?
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Hermes Serpent on March 07, 2017, 03:42:23 am
A lot of the material taken out of 1st edition can be found in Life on a Medieval Barony (William Stearns Davis) which is where Ed got it from in the first place. As it's out of copyright you can get a reprint from loads of sources.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Hermes Serpent on March 07, 2017, 03:53:07 am
With regard to the 'best' edition I'd suggest that 2nd is probably the way to go. It loses the small typeface and replaces one volume with three but the majority of the material that makes C&S so good remains. My copy of the Red book fell apart from use over time but the three volume 2nd ed has certainly stood up better. The box often gets damaged but keeps the books in decent condition. You are likely to pay quite a bit for a copy in good condition but they do come up every now and again on eBay etc.

The old Loyal Order of Chivalry and Sorcery archive can be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20010721022411/locs.org/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20010721022411/locs.org/) and there's a forum at http://chivalrysorcery.myfastforum.org/index.php (http://chivalrysorcery.myfastforum.org/index.php) which isn't very active but has some useful/interesting material hidden away.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: AsenRG on March 07, 2017, 06:34:02 am
Quote from: Larsdangly;949672
If you want a game book that talks you through things like social hierarchies, designing feudal estates, etc. then 1st edition is the one to get (just get a magnifying glass because the text is tiny!). Every subsequent edition of the game presented less and less of this. Actually 4E does make an effort to re-introduce it, but the treatment in 1E is very 'gamist' - i.e., full of details you can use to play at the table - whereas the 4E treatment is more like what you would pick up from your own reading in the non-fiction section in local library.

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;949716
A lot of the material taken out of 1st edition can be found in Life on a Medieval Barony (William Stearns Davis) which is where Ed got it from in the first place. As it's out of copyright you can get a reprint from loads of sources.

Thank you, both of you. I've got the 4th edition and I've read said book already.
Seems like I need to read the game rules, now;).
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: trechriron on March 07, 2017, 03:39:18 pm
Quote from: David Johansen;949682
II used to know a guy who had Ed Simbalist for a math teacher.  Are you in Alberta?

I am not; Renton, WA USA. I met the Professor in Las Vegas, NV I lived for 6 years but moved back to WA 3 years ago.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: chirine ba kal on March 07, 2017, 03:49:45 pm
Ah, "Bireme and Galley"...

Still have my copy, along with several sets of the ship plans mounted on foamcore. They are superb for boarding actions and, along with "Sea Steeds and Wave Riders" (I have multiple sets of that, as well, also mounted on foamcore) quite possibly the very best thing for same. The rules themselves, on the other hand, are a very mixed bag. The ship handling and movement is good, and plays well, but the ship-to-ship combat rules re kinda weak and seem under-developed. Since I'd assume the use of C&S for the actual boarding action combat, it does work, but as a stand-alone game I don't think that it does. One would be better off using a specialist set of naval rules for the maritime stuff, and one's favorite RPG for the melees.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: jhkim on March 07, 2017, 04:35:02 pm
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;949718
With regard to the 'best' edition I'd suggest that 2nd is probably the way to go. It loses the small typeface and replaces one volume with three but the majority of the material that makes C&S so good remains. My copy of the Red book fell apart from use over time but the three volume 2nd ed has certainly stood up better. The box often gets damaged but keeps the books in decent condition. You are likely to pay quite a bit for a copy in good condition but they do come up every now and again on eBay etc.

The old Loyal Order of Chivalry and Sorcery archive can be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20010721022411/locs.org/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20010721022411/locs.org/) and there's a forum at http://chivalrysorcery.myfastforum.org/index.php (http://chivalrysorcery.myfastforum.org/index.php) which isn't very active but has some useful/interesting material hidden away.
I've only briefly seen the other editions, but I liked my 2nd edition a lot - and the other editions didn't look very compelling. On the other hand, I've only played a short adventure with it many years ago - so I'm not all that sure about it.

I liked reading the magic rules - particularly alchemy and witchcraft - but didn't get to use them much in actual play.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: David Johansen on March 08, 2017, 12:47:26 am
Quote from: trechriron;949857
I am not; Renton, WA USA. I met the Professor in Las Vegas, NV I lived for 6 years but moved back to WA 3 years ago.

Oddly enough I was born in Renton.  My Dad was a chemical engineer at Boeing in 1970.  He got laid off and moved to Utah, then Colorado Springs and from there to Calgary Alberta Canada.  It made a right mess of my citizenships.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;949859
Ah, "Bireme and Galley"...

Still have my copy, along with several sets of the ship plans mounted on foamcore. They are superb for boarding actions and, along with "Sea Steeds and Wave Riders" (I have multiple sets of that, as well, also mounted on foamcore) quite possibly the very best thing for same. The rules themselves, on the other hand, are a very mixed bag. The ship handling and movement is good, and plays well, but the ship-to-ship combat rules re kinda weak and seem under-developed. Since I'd assume the use of C&S for the actual boarding action combat, it does work, but as a stand-alone game I don't think that it does. One would be better off using a specialist set of naval rules for the maritime stuff, and one's favorite RPG for the melees.

I've got Sea Law for Rolemaster 2 / War Law.  I've used War Law once and I could write a long dissertation on the things that are awesome about it and the things that are annoying / dreadful about it.  I almost wonder if any of the authors had actually played any wargames before.  There are endless rules about special skills for units and very limited rules for actually raising regiments.  The combat charts are mathematically derived from Arms Law so you have a full page table for each weapon type.  But for an rpg, keeping the battlemap down to a basic 8.5 x 11 hex grid side map is pretty brilliant.  Anyhow it worked fairly well when we used it, but, while I can see the value as an rpg adjunct, I can't really see wanting to wargame with it.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Larsdangly on March 08, 2017, 01:50:12 am
Once you've written a couple of games it is easy to spot things that almost certainly got written and published without ever seriously play testing...
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: GameDaddy on March 08, 2017, 11:55:08 pm
Quote from: David Johansen;949391
Well, since The Pundit is talking about authentic medieval rpgs I thought I'd start a thread on the grand daddy of them all, Chivalry and Sorcery.  

Oh well, anyhow, I'm known for my love of baroque and bizarre systems and I'm a big fan of knights and castles and such like. I won't deny that C&S somewhat inspired The Arcane Confabulation.  So, are there any C&S fans around here?  Did anyone get second edition?  I always wanted it but that big, fat box was $35.  I've heard the saurians supplement was pretty good.  Did anyone use their "award winning" miniatures rules?  Bireme and Galley?

I'd like to hear about it.

o/ - Ran alot of Chivalry & Sorcery here. Played in a couple of other campaigns at about the same time. Picked up the Redbook in 1979, followed by the Chivalry & Sorcery Sourcebook. Character creation was highly complex 8.5/10 and took an excruciating amount of time, however produced an uber-realistic character complete with a highly detailed background. It was very Eurocentric, and Feudalistic, and there were extremely detailed rules on combat, skills use, and owning/managing acastle, tower, estate, or manor. This made it very attractive as an rpg especially from about 1980 on as AD&D began really deviating from the original intent of D&D, and TSR released a series of increasingly bizarre rulings concerning combat in play which didn't simulate real melee combat well. We suspected the AD&D magic was similarly skewed and looked to C&S to provide a much more believable medieval fantasy setting with more complete and balanced combat and magic rules. Ran games until about 1983 or so...

The detailed and descriptive critical hit tables were great! The family background inheritance & wealth generator was great, and the jousting and mounted combat rules were simply amazing in both detail and speediness in play (once the Jousting rules were learned). There was a lot to like about C&S back when TSR was just beginning to get that reputation as "They Sue Regularly" in regards to other game designers as well as their fans.

C&S also used an innovative acetate hexgrid that could be overlaid on any hand drawn or printed map to regulate outdoor movement in the game.

My friend Rodney had Saurians and Bireme & Galley, so he used them for his game worlds. I didn't have much exposure to either except when a Saurian army attacked our fortified manor and lands in one of the more memorable campaigns of his game. The Saurians were very deadly foes! Also I did generate a couple types of war galleys for my C&S games.

My other friend John had the Arden Campaign setting and the Destrier book (Because he liked the talking horses, LoL!)

That kind of how we got more out of our gaming budgets back in the day, Each person in our group would get a copy of core rules for a game, and then pick up different adventure modules or supplements which we would share, and even from time-to-time photocopy out of, cherry picking the best of the game rules and ideas for our games that was really a mashup of several rules and supplements sets.

I used the C&S Jousting rules for my D&D games as well. Once learned, it was ridiculously simple and fast to use in-play.

Also used these rules for a Tolkien campaign at least once.

Anyone can get C&S 4 core rules for free now, downloadable from the druvethrurpg website courtesy of Britannia Game Designs.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/142316/Chivalry--Sorcery-4th-Edition?affiliate_id=622563

Britannia Game Designs
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Brittannia-Game-Designs-Ltd-222021604475526/about/?ref=page_internal
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: CRKrueger on March 08, 2017, 11:59:56 pm
How close is the 2000 Gamestuff "C&S Red Book" edition to the original 1977 First Edition?  It's supposed to be nearly identical just in a readable font.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: David Johansen on March 09, 2017, 12:33:39 am
Huh, I think I heard about that, wonder if it's still available somewhere.

I'd like to rebuild my collection of obscure games one day.

At one point there was a pre-order up at my distributor for a new edition of C&S but it never materialized.  Last I checked Britannia's website was down, I'll have to check.

Okay some poking around yielded some articles dating to 2011 -2012 in which Britannia is announcing a new edition that has never materialized.  There are pdfs available http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?keywords=Chivalry+%26+Sorcery&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=&x=0&y=0

and then there is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(C%26S)

Which looks to be a fan project approaching 900 pages but lacking the official rights while having the creator's blessing.  I know there was some nastiness around the third to fourth edition transition and that the creators had a falling out but I don't know any details.  From the articles one might infer that Wilf Backhaus wasn't really a supporter of Britannia's edition.

Oh well, that kind of stuff is why I mostly work on my own stuff.  No issues with rights.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Hermes Serpent on March 09, 2017, 04:01:05 am
TBH I point out any appearance of The Red Book that I see to the IP holder Britannia Game Designs as they spent a lot of money defending their IP (in association with Ed before his death) against the Red Book and other attempts to infringe upon their ownership of C&S.

Wilf certainly had his own ideas about fresh editions but I believe that the acrimony was resolved before his death.

BGD despite occasional attempts to move on a new edition seem to have lost momentum (I know that the owners lost a child to an unfortunate household accident some time back and that seems to be behind a lot of their malaise).
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: CRKrueger on March 09, 2017, 06:57:19 am
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;950219
TBH I point out any appearance of The Red Book that I see to the IP holder Britannia Game Designs as they spent a lot of money defending their IP (in association with Ed before his death) against the Red Book and other attempts to infringe upon their ownership of C&S.

Wilf certainly had his own ideas about fresh editions but I believe that the acrimony was resolved before his death.

BGD despite occasional attempts to move on a new edition seem to have lost momentum (I know that the owners lost a child to an unfortunate household accident some time back and that seems to be behind a lot of their malaise).

Are they making money by selling previous editions they have rights to or are they just quashing all other editions because it's not the one they want to sell?

If they'll sell me 1e I'll buy it from them.  If they don't, that's their choice not mine, and if they think they can disappear it from history, they can go fuck themselves.

The 2000 version I have was released for free by the creator of C&S, Wilf, under license.  I've never seen the continually expanding fan versions.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Hermes Serpent on March 09, 2017, 07:53:02 am
I am not a lawyer and don't know the terms of the licence they hold but your attitude seems needlessly antagonistic to the concept of IP ownership.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: CRKrueger on March 09, 2017, 08:23:41 am
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;950256
I am not a lawyer and don't know the terms of the licence they hold

Here you go...
Quote from: C&S Red Book 2000 edition page 2
Legal Notices:All additional material and changes comprising The C&S Red Book ©2000 Gamestuff Inc, All Rights Reserved. The first edition of Chivalry & Sorcery ©1977 by Wilf Backhaus and Edward Simbalist. This electronic edition is produced under license from Wilf K. Backhaus, Maple Leaf Games Ltd and Brittannia Game Designs Ltd by Gamestuff Inc.  Chivalry & Sorcery is a trade mark used under license from Brittannia Game Designs Ltd. C&S Red Book is a trade mark of  Gamestuff Inc. who also claims all unique characters, character names, locations, and unique spell names in the text as trade marks. C&S is a trade mark of Wilf K. Backhaus and is used with permission.

You may be thinking of all the fan C&S Redbooks...
...these are the unlicensed fan releases which got BGD on the warpath.

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;950256
but your attitude seems needlessly antagonistic to the concept of IP ownership.
and you seem to be quite overinvolved for someone who has no legal or economic standing, to the point of a veiled threat to those who might distribute a freely released product by the original author under license from the current IP holder.  I have no problem with someone making money off of IP they own.  Hiding behind IP law to effectively burn books is where we have the problem.

Look up the licensing information yourself:
Google "c&s red book pdf" or just search on Scribd.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Hermes Serpent on March 09, 2017, 11:01:16 am
As an author of some material published under the C&S trademark I do have some standing regarding the product. However I misunderstood the Red Book you wrote about as the unauthorised fan produced Red Books which I believe BGD have taken action against in the past.

I was referring to BGD's licence from Ed and Wilf where BGD own the trademarks to the name and product identity rather than that of the Red Book licenced via Wilf.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: RPGPundit on March 11, 2017, 03:26:38 am
C&S certainly had its charm, and remained popular in Alberta long after its star had faded elsewhere, thanks to the enthusiasm of Ed Simbalist. I hung out with him once. I wouldn't say it was exactly 'medieval authentic', but it was in some ways slightly more medieval than D&D.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Khepfrish on January 07, 2019, 04:51:40 pm
I realize that C&S is a bit of a niche game these days. Indeed, most would say that it always was. Neverthless, if you want to relive your 1970s RPG youthful vigour then you might like to know that I'm selling by 1st edition rules, in good condition, on eBay.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Brad on January 07, 2019, 05:31:03 pm
Quote from: Khepfrish;1070864
I realize that C&S is a bit of a niche game these days. Indeed, most would say that it always was. Neverthless, if you want to relive your 1970s RPG youthful vigour then you might like to know that I'm selling by 1st edition rules, in good condition, on eBay.

Link please. My copy is falling apart.

EDIT: Probably gonna be deleted as I don't think Pundit allows this per the rules.
Title: Repair your copy
Post by: Khepfrish on January 08, 2019, 02:43:51 pm
Quote from: Brad;1070867
Link please. My copy is falling apart.

EDIT: Probably gonna be deleted as I don't think Pundit allows this per the rules.


Oops! Didn't mean to offend so I won't post a link.

If your copy is falling apart, it might simply be that the glue has aged and cracked. If the pages are all there and in good shape then a bookbinder(*) can easily reglue them. Bindings are ephemeral things and need to be replaced from time to time.

(*) My Father-in-law was one, and my wife trained as one.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: RPGPundit on January 17, 2019, 06:28:57 am
Quote from: Khepfrish;1070864
I realize that C&S is a bit of a niche game these days. Indeed, most would say that it always was. Neverthless, if you want to relive your 1970s RPG youthful vigour then you might like to know that I'm selling by 1st edition rules, in good condition, on eBay.


If I didn't already say it, welcome to theRPGsite, Khepfrish!
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: GameDaddy on January 17, 2019, 05:20:15 pm
Quote from: David Johansen;950195
Huh, I think I heard about that, wonder if it's still available somewhere.


I have copies of both. They look about identical. I will look through them later on this evening and let you know of any significant differences.
Title: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Iron Cross on January 12, 2020, 11:12:55 am
The authors of C&S, especially Andy Staples are intolerant in your face SJWs who preach incessantly about diversity in character creation and accuse people of being against diversity.  They also insinuate that their fan base is full of white supremists.  Andy Staples is a commissar of political correctness and diversity virtue signaling who aggressively pummels people with the topic until they have a headache.
Title: Re: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Forodin on September 27, 2020, 10:14:25 am
Hi all,

I have been playing C&S 2nd edition since 1983 when it first came out. I own EVERY book created for the game system up to and including 5th edition. I also own and run the old C&S forum https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/chivalrysorcery/index.php

I have been playing as I said 2nd edition since 1983 (37 years) 25 years of which has been played using the HARN setting which C&S perfectly suits. I also know Steve Turner, the owner of 5th edition.

We decided to keep playing 2nd edition as for us it best suited our style of play. The Blow system we love and the design of the Magic system we also enjoy etc. Everything about 2nd edition is just perfect for us.

I am contactable by my email address if there are those out there who still play C&S and want to keep in contact with other like minded players
Title: Re: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Arkansan on September 27, 2020, 04:11:07 pm
I've always wanted to track down a physical copy of the first edition of C&S, I'm not sure I'd play it as but it looks great for idea mining.
Title: Re: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: Brad on September 28, 2020, 10:35:28 am
I've always wanted to track down a physical copy of the first edition of C&S, I'm not sure I'd play it as but it looks great for idea mining.
I have two, and both bindings are pretty much done...need to get them rebound somewhere. You need a magnifying glass to read the text, though. Totally worth the effort, hard to believe how much information they crammed into this game.
Title: Re: Chivalry and Sorcery
Post by: lordmalachdrim on September 28, 2020, 02:11:16 pm
I have two, and both bindings are pretty much done...need to get them rebound somewhere. You need a magnifying glass to read the text, though. Totally worth the effort, hard to believe how much information they crammed into this game.


I'd recommend contacting the local library to see if they have the contact number of a good book binder. Usually the larger ones have a guy or two they can recommend (or at least that has been my experience in the past).