Quote from: RPGPundit;924288I think kids are a lot more acclimatized to things than we imagine. But then, I had a 9-12 year old who played for 3 years of my DCC campaign, and if you've seen the session reports of that one, you might think I'm grossly negligent.   The kid in question didn't bat an eyelash though.

I think that's a bit risky, but not what I'd have considered bad when I was young.  I just live in an area with a lot of over-coddled kids with over-protective little suburban mommies with nothing better to do than get pissed off about something.  All I need is a kid having a bad game and running to its owner screaming about me saying 'Cocksucker' or something.

But just as averse as I am to playing with kids, I'm also averse to playing with total strangers as well.  For similar reasons.

Quote from: Crüesader;924295I think that's a bit risky, but not what I'd have considered bad when I was young.  I just live in an area with a lot of over-coddled kids with over-protective little suburban mommies with nothing better to do than get pissed off about something.  All I need is a kid having a bad game and running to its owner screaming about me saying 'Cocksucker' or something.

Seems to me that running a tape would halt that, though of course that wouldn't help in a situation such as the OP described.

Quote from: Ravenswing;924254
Yes, indeed, lawsuits such as you describe have happened, and they are far far rarer than people fantasize about, lurid tales in the media notwithstanding.  You have about fifty times as much chance of getting yourself seriously injured driving to work in the morning as being the target of a frivolous lawsuit, but that doesn't prevent you from getting behind the wheel.

So it can and has happened just as I said.  For many people, especially in the Western US, driving is a practical necessity if they want to keep a job and earn a living.  Running a game with minors at a convention is not a necessity for anyone.

Quote from: Ravenswing;924254
Certainly steps such as maturity ratings such as Spinachcat describes are sensible deterrents, but an even better one is a tough stance against frivolous lawsuits.  Our firm has a staunch policy against them: we won't settle, and we're more than happy to go to the other party and say that not only had they better be prepared to go the distance, but that we'll be filing for costs as well as Rule 11 sanctions for a frivolous filing.  After nicking the other side for five figures in an appellate case a few years back, it's no idle threat.

How many private individuals can afford to take that sort of stance?

Quote from: Ravenswing;924254
One other thing to keep in mind, following another point raised, and something I've hammered on in LARP and convention circles: while waivers are commonly believed to be "Get Out Of Litigation Free" cards, they're nothing of the sort.  In particular, no waiver every penned immunizes against negligence, and courts can be creative in defining it.

So this probably won't happen but it can?

OK, here is the crux of the matter for me in public gaming. Tabletop RPGs are supposed to be fun, so how much CYA work is required before they start to become un-fun? My sweet spot is to run public games so that they are PG-13. It means I cannot be graphic in my descriptions of gore or sex and I cannot cuss as much, but I can live with all that. In comparison, we moved our regular gaming from our FLGS to the local geek bar so that we could all say "fuck" without having to worry about an 8-year old Pokémon player and their parent overhearing us and getting bent out of shape - the fallout of which could hurt the FLGS owner and his business more than my game.

Quote from: jeff37923;924312OK, here is the crux of the matter for me in public gaming. Tabletop RPGs are supposed to be fun, so how much CYA work is required before they start to become un-fun?

I think

Quote from: Ravenswing;924304Seems to me that running a tape would halt that, though of course that wouldn't help in a situation such as the OP described.

needing to tape sessions to cover your ass would be there.

Quote from: yosemitemike;924315I think



needing to tape sessions to cover your ass would be there.

I agree.

I live in California which (I think) requires the consent of everyone in the conversation before I can record it.  Can you imagine that at a convention?  I am going to record this game session for legal reasons so I need everyone to give their consent to be recorded before we can begin...

I have been asked to run RPGs for the kids at the local public library. Ages 11-18 or so. These are mostly kids who are involved in the anime Club at the library. I have a pretty good idea what their exposure leveltollerance for sex and violence is.

I will simply keep my games PG-13 and respect the venue we are playing in. Much the same as I would in the main hall of a convention. If anyone can walk up to my game table at any time I will run a different game than if I am in a private space with a group of adults I know well.

Dark and gritty doesn't have to mean very hard R rating though. A lot of Charles Dickens is pretty grim and gritty, as is Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. I would consider the Maltese Falcon to be a grim and gritty film and it would barely slide into a PG rating. Jaws was rated PG.

Quote from: Spinachcat;924236Allegations of misconduct are monumentally higher when girls are involved.

That's an argument unrelated to the scifi and the grittiness. The guy could have run a My Little Ponies RPG for tween girls and ended up with allegations of misconduct.

I have a feeling that if you distrust kids and their parents enough that you'd need to tape it, you should just not play with those kids. I mean hells, taping the activity feels creepier to me than anything. I've done several gaming presentations for kids and never had a single issue - true, they were all games out in the open, but still.

Quote from: Pyromancer;923531Imagine the following situation:

You have announced to run a gritty hard scifi game at a local gaming convention.

When you show up at your table, it turns out that of the six players, two are 12 year old girls. A quick conversation reveals that they have roleplayed before (once, some kind of homebrew), they chose your game because they like scifi (although you haven't heard the scifi things they mention), they claim their parents are ok with them playing (but they aren't anywhere near), and they are eager to play.

You have prepared a pretty straight forward investigation/action scenario, but it touches some mature themes. There is nothing in it that is overtly unsuited for children that you couldn't tone down or change on the spot, but the base premise still is "Blindsight" meets "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". A 12 year old might get the "rough picture" ("those aliens killed and replaced the scientists"), but they probably won't get the nuances and implications (which might be a good thing). Your pregenerated characters all have some transhumanist element in them: Cyberware, shared consciousnesses, one is an outright AI, that kind of thing.

The other players appear to be normal convention folk, perhaps a little bit on the annoying side.

What do you do?

I run the game, generally.  If I'm really twitchy, I get the girls' parents cellphone number and give them a quick call to see what's up and if it's okay, but generally in the Colorado area everyone more or less is used to the folks who show up to our conventions and we're pretty together.  But assuming I didn't mark the game as 'Mature Themes' when I put the description in the booklet, I run.  (If I did put Mature Themes and they show up anyway, I'd probably try to figure out how mature I want to keep it, definitely call the parents, and/or remove them from the game, but that's extra leeway I consider myself given when I've advertised it like that.)

Quote from: Ravenswing;924304Seems to me that running a tape would halt that, though of course that wouldn't help in a situation such as the OP described.

I would be very uncomfortable recording a session with children, even with parental approval.

Quote from: yosemitemike;924323I live in California which (I think) requires the consent of everyone in the conversation before I can record it.  Can you imagine that at a convention?  I am going to record this game session for legal reasons so I need everyone to give their consent to be recorded before we can begin...

IANAL, but this has come up before with recording of different types of training sessions.  At a convention, out in the open, there probably is not a reasonable expectation that someone not engaged in the conversation would not be able to overhear it (say at the next table over or simply walking by, or stopping and watching for a few), so as a result, not having such an reasonable expectation, the parties do not have to consent, as it is not a "confidential conversation".  Of course the problem is what defines "reasonable", you may not want to spend the money to find out in court.

Of course recording a minor may be a completely different set of laws...

Quote from: CRKrueger;924479At a convention, out in the open, there probably is not a reasonable expectation that someone not engaged in the conversation would not be able to overhear it (say at the next table over or simply walking by, or stopping and watching for a few), so as a result, not having such an reasonable expectation, the parties do not have to consent, as it is not a "confidential conversation".

You generally have a reasonable expectation of privacy anywhere that isn't a public space.  Since conventions are held on private property and require paid admission, that makes them not a public space.  IANAL either, but I would not assume that "no reasonable expectation of privacy" applies in a convention.  I've seen case law where it didn't apply in a sports stadium.

Quote from: daniel_ream;924481You generally have a reasonable expectation of privacy anywhere that isn't a public space.  Since conventions are held on private property and require paid admission, that makes them not a public space.  IANAL either, but I would not assume that "no reasonable expectation of privacy" applies in a convention.  I've seen case law where it didn't apply in a sports stadium.

Interesting, it would be hard to have a conversation in a sports stadium where you weren't in obvious earshot of others, same with most convention floors.  But, that's why you might not want to pay to find out the definition of "reasonable".