Ive been browsing for a good system for a hard sci fi campaign. Ive gone through a tone but really like a couple of the settings made for Traveller or the Cepheus Engine. Anyone have any experience with both? I was set on Mongoose Traveller as the newest version out there but it seems Cepheus has a pretty big following for what amounts to a cleaned up version of a very old system. Is it worth a go?
There's an old thread, this one https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36208-Clement-Sector-The-Rules-a-fixed-version-of-Cepheus-Engine (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36208-Clement-Sector-The-Rules-a-fixed-version-of-Cepheus-Engine) where I asked about a "fixed" version of Cepheus Engine. We found the rules and written to be unusable.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1038083Ive been browsing for a good system for a hard sci fi campaign. Ive gone through a tone but really like a couple of the settings made for Traveller or the Cepheus Engine. Anyone have any experience with both? I was set on Mongoose Traveller as the newest version out there but it seems Cepheus has a pretty big following for what amounts to a cleaned up version of a very old system. Is it worth a go?
You might give Clement Sector a try. That's our version of the Cepheus Engine rules with modifications to fit our setting.
And it's on the Bundle of Holding until Monday the 14th.
(I'd post the link but I'm not sure of the rules here about ad links outside the ad forum...)
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1038093You might give Clement Sector a try. That's our version of the Cepheus Engine rules with modifications to fit our setting.
And it's on the Bundle of Holding until Monday the 14th.
(I'd post the link but I'm not sure of the rules here about ad links outside the ad forum...)
That's the conclusion I came to in the other thread--try Clement Sector.
Could be Im missing something but it looks like the commentary on that thread regarding Clement Sector was essentially about a little vagueness in a bit of the character generation section. If thats all the Cepheus Engine has troubling it I dont really see a problem. We pretty much freeform our characters anyway regardless of what system we use. As long as the core mechanics are sound (personnel combat, vehicle combat, space combat, skill resolution, space travel etc. ) its all good as far as Im concerned. Im a pretty notorious house ruler anyway. Is there some other fundamental flaw with Cepheus that would make me want to stick with Mongoose Traveller or some other reason?
By the way, Im sure Clement Sector is great but when I hear its been modified to fit a setting, Im out. Ill have my own setting to modify the existing rules with in most cases.
I bought a bunch of the Clement Sector stuff and it looks very well done to me. It seems like the same "traveller" char gen with more options for species and careers. TONS of nice details, I feel like you could run a game in Clement Sector for 5 years. :-D
I should probably throw in that the settings Im looking at are near future, hard sci-fi in type and seriously curb a lot of FTL, advanced weaponry, power sources etc. There are no aliens in any setting Ill run (except for nasty critters) so thats not an issue. Ill look at Clement Sector though, no harm in browsing it.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1038119I should probably throw in that the settings Im looking at are near future, hard sci-fi in type and seriously curb a lot of FTL, advanced weaponry, power sources etc. There are no aliens in any setting Ill run (except for nasty critters) so thats not an issue. Ill look at Clement Sector though, no harm in browsing it.
There's In The Dark for Cepheus and Hostile which are more hard sci-fi, lower tech. IIRC In The Dark is near future, solar system only.
Quote from: trechriron;1038137There's In The Dark for Cepheus and Hostile which are more hard sci-fi, lower tech. IIRC In The Dark is near future, solar system only.
There's also a few individual releases that are compatible with Hostile (Alien Breeds, Orbital 2100 and Far Horizon) from the same publisher
Quote from: rgrove0172;1038107Could be Im missing something but it looks like the commentary on that thread regarding Clement Sector was essentially about a little vagueness in a bit of the character generation section. If thats all the Cepheus Engine has troubling it I dont really see a problem. We pretty much freeform our characters anyway regardless of what system we use. As long as the core mechanics are sound (personnel combat, vehicle combat, space combat, skill resolution, space travel etc. ) its all good as far as Im concerned. Im a pretty notorious house ruler anyway. Is there some other fundamental flaw with Cepheus that would make me want to stick with Mongoose Traveller or some other reason?
By the way, Im sure Clement Sector is great but when I hear its been modified to fit a setting, Im out. Ill have my own setting to modify the existing rules with in most cases.
We never got past character generation. Cepheus Engine SRD is PWYW, so get it for zero to test it. If you like it, drop them some money.
The issues we found with CE were big enough that, even if I were planning to house rule everything, I'd start from Clement Sector (or some other variant). I found them a bigger deal than "a little vagueness" -- we found the generation rules impossible to use. IIRC, we found similar issues with starship construction.
I would do this simply because I assume the issues we found in Character Generation are present in other places in the CE SRD. Starting from Clement Sector should give you a shared base understanding, rather than an inconsistent understanding from the SRD.
Plus that Bundle of Holding is pretty nice.
I also like that John Watts is very professional and contributes positively in all the threads in which I've seen GKG post.
The Bundle of Holding for all the Clement Sector options is currently $21, or $10 for the base three. Alternatively, if you're not publishing this, the Classic Traveller CD is $35.
It strikes me that all these systems are fundamentally extremely similar.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1038529It strikes me that all these systems are fundamentally extremely similar.
That's why we're talking about them. The main difference is how clear the writing is.
Quote from: Tod13;1038553That's why we're talking about them. The main difference is how clear the writing is.
You said there were issues with the writing of Cepheus Engine. What we're they? I'm looking for specifics to see if things might be improved.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1038529It strikes me that all these systems are fundamentally extremely similar.
Yep. CE took some of its rules straight from Mongoose Traveller, that are not mentioned in the SRD.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1038700Yep. CE took some of its rules straight from Mongoose Traveller, that are not mentioned in the SRD.
It did? Which rules?
Quote from: Archibold Monk;1038723It did? Which rules?
Yeah I sooo curious to know...
QuoteQuote from: Shawn Driscoll;1038700Yep. CE took some of its rules straight from Mongoose Traveller, that are not mentioned in the SRD.
Quote from: Archibold Monk;1038723It did? Which rules?
Quote from: middenface;1038816Yeah I sooo curious to know...
...can you give us an example of this, Shawn, please?
Quote from: jeff37923;1038638You said there were issues with the writing of Cepheus Engine. What we're they? I'm looking for specifics to see if things might be improved.
Oh definitely. At sometime in the future I might do a updated version for the Print on Demand version. With illustrations!
Any input on how I can improve it will be greatly appreciated.
Quote from: jeff37923;1038638You said there were issues with the writing of Cepheus Engine. What we're they? I'm looking for specifics to see if things might be improved.
For Character Generation, this link https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36208-Clement-Sector-The-Rules-a-fixed-version-of-Cepheus-Engine (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36208-Clement-Sector-The-Rules-a-fixed-version-of-Cepheus-Engine) has a discussion where most of us get lost. I give some very precise examples of places where we had no idea what to do and my specific questions.
You and I talked about a ship design issue here https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35807-Traveler-which-edition&p=939108&viewfull=1#post939108 (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35807-Traveler-which-edition&p=939108&viewfull=1#post939108)
I do not remember any others, since, while I purchased the recent Clement Sector Bundle of Holding (mostly because of GKG's posting on this site), we've been using the system I wrote for RPGs.
My best advice to find the issues is to do everything, character generation, ship design, and a skill and combat round, and try and reference a rule for every single thing you do, page number and paragraph, if not sentence. The idea is to replicate the attempts of a novice to learn the system. Try not to assume things, like what numbers in a table mean.
Quote from: middenface;1038955Oh definitely. At sometime in the future I might do a updated version for the Print on Demand version. With illustrations!
Any input on how I can improve it will be greatly appreciated.
The same thing happened with OSRIC. The first version was strictly as a reference. But after feedback people wanted it more like a traditional rulebook hence the second version.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1038700Yep. CE took some of its rules straight from Mongoose Traveller, that are not mentioned in the SRD.
That a serious accusation, how about citing specific reference.
And did you double check to see if they are found in the open content of the other works referenced by Cepheus' section 15?
- High Guard System Reference Document Copyright © 2008, Mongoose Publishing.
- Mercenary System Reference Document Copyright © 2008, Mongoose Publishing.
- Modern System Reference Document Copyright 2002-2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, Eric Cagle, David Noonan, Stan!, Christopher Perkins, Rodney Thompson, and JD Wiker, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Wiker.
- Swords & Wizardry Core Rules, Copyright 2008, Matthew J. Finch
- System Reference Document, Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.
- T20 - The Traveller's Handbook Copyright 2002, Quiklink Interactive, Inc. Traveller is a trademark of Far Future Enterprises and is used under license.
- Traveller System Reference Document Copyright © 2008, Mongoose Publishing.
- Traveller is © 2008 Mongoose Publishing. Traveller and related logos, character, names, and distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks of Far Future Enterprises unless otherwise noted. All Rights Reserved. Mongoose Publishing Ltd Authorized User.
- Cepheus Engine System Reference Document, Copyright © 2016 Samardan Press; Author Jason "Flynn" Kemp
QuoteQuote from: Shawn Driscoll;1038700Yep. CE took some of its rules straight from Mongoose Traveller, that are not mentioned in the SRD.
Quote from: Archibold Monk;1038723It did? Which rules?
Quote from: middenface;1038816Yeah I sooo curious to know...
Quote from: Archibold Monk;1038948...can you give us an example of this, Shawn, please?
So, no response and no evidence for your claim then?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1038529It strikes me that all these systems are fundamentally extremely similar.
What happen in that in the past decade a small group of 3PP publisher grew around publishing original settings for Traveller.
Prior to Mongoose Traveller 1st Edition most of the focus was supporting the Third Imperium with whatever the current edition was. But with Mongoose Traveller 1st edition there was huge shift to supporting science fiction in general as well as the Third Imperium. By the time Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition rolled around there were several who took advantage of the open content to publish original settings. However there was little incentive or reason to make any type of Traveller Clone as the then 1st edition was well support and in-print. Plus Far Future had inexpensive CD one could by that contained everything for a particular edition.
But with Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition, the 3PP was shifted away from a SRD released as open content to a DM's Guild style community content program called the Traveller Aid Station. Which include not only the use of the Traveller 2nd edition rules but the use of Third Imperium content. But all the 3PP made their mark with original setting. And the terms of the program (and all Community Content programs) state that once published there, you can't publish it anywhere INCLUDING derivative works. The former is understandable but the second means if you published an original setting for TAS anything based on that setting can only be published on TAS. Unacceptable for somebody like Gypsy Knight who put a lot of work into support an original setting (Clement Sector).
Cepheus was created to address this screw up. TAS finally propelled folks, namely Jason Kemp, to assemble all the Traveller related open content into a coherent whole. While there there are difference between Classic, Mongoose 1st and Mongoose 2nd they are all 2d6 based game design sharing a lot of common elements. Very similar to various editions of D&D (except 4th).
The result has been explosion Traveller compatible products under the Cepheus label and a dearth of content for TAS. (179 for Cepheus, and 62 for TAS most are publisher resources). Mongoose has only 39 releases themselves for 2nd edition. But I have to say some of Mongoose's products are pretty nice and cover new ground like the Great Rift supplement.
Overall the last couple of years been a 2nd Golden Age for Traveller exceed the quality, quantity and diversity of release in the late 70s and early 80s.
Again, I think there's little practical difference worth mentioning. There's less difference than among the many versions of OSR rulesets, that's for sure, even if you only count the "Clones".
I guess my go-to set would be Mongoose, but that's just out of familiarity now.