SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Catapulting Cows Over the City Walls!

Started by SHARK, April 20, 2021, 05:03:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3
User actions

SHARK

April 20, 2021, 05:03:12 PM
Greetings!

When an invading army has an enemy city surrounded and properly under siege, loading cows into catapults and hurling them high into the air and over the city walls is a tactic designed to spread disease and terror amongst the besieged population.

How fast does disease spread from cows hurled into the city from the besieging army?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

HappyDaze

#1
April 20, 2021, 05:06:31 PM
I'm hoping to see a response from somebody with RL experiences in both epidemiology and bovine bombardment. Nothing else will do.

jhkim

#2
April 20, 2021, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 05:03:12 PM
When an invading army has an enemy city surrounded and properly under siege, loading cows into catapults and hurling them high into the air and over the city walls is a tactic designed to spread disease and terror amongst the besieged population.

How fast does disease spread from cows hurled into the city from the besieging army?

I have no expertise in this, just Google search. I was surprised to find that the Black Death was relatively slow - number of infected doubled every 43 days, but the Great Plague of 1665 doubled every 11 days. That would be accelerated under crowded siege conditions, but it would still take a long time to spread - taking months before it made any difference.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201019155926.htm

I've rarely had games that either dealt with long-term sieges or realistic disease. One of the uglier and surprising facts about history is that more soldiers died of disease than from battle for every war up until World War I. But I've never had a PC die of disease.

Ghostmaker

#3
April 20, 2021, 07:41:14 PM
Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 05:03:12 PM
Greetings!

When an invading army has an enemy city surrounded and properly under siege, loading cows into catapults and hurling them high into the air and over the city walls is a tactic designed to spread disease and terror amongst the besieged population.

How fast does disease spread from cows hurled into the city from the besieging army?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Not just cows. Any corpse would make a useful disease vector if you don't have any way to dispose of it. Even if there's no plague involved, a rotting corpse is a haven for all sorts of nastiness.

GeekyBugle

#4
April 20, 2021, 08:17:27 PM
Find their water supply and throw the cows there.

Get a few hundred rats and free them in the city.

Get a few hundreds/thousands poisonus critters and free them in the city.

If the outside army knows of lime (caustic soda?) it also makes for a nasty projectile and poison.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

VisionStorm

#5
April 20, 2021, 08:56:01 PM
All I wanna know is how much damage does a bovine projectile make when hurled with a catapult. 4d8 OK? Or is that too much? How much damage does a high velocity cow body make on impact?  ;D

GeekyBugle

#6
April 20, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 20, 2021, 08:56:01 PM
All I wanna know is how much damage does a bovine projectile make when hurled with a catapult. 4d8 OK? Or is that too much? How much damage does a high velocity cow body make on impact?  ;D

Lets see, an average cow weighs around 1,200 lbs
A large catapult can lob a rock about 176.37lbs (80 kg) in weight.
Trebuchets had about the same capacity for projectiles.

A large catapult does 6d6 damage Source: https://triplecrit.fandom.com/wiki/Catapult,_Heavy

Assuming the same projectile this would mean an even bigger catapult able to throw said 1,200 lbs (544.3108 kilos)

So a cow is about 6.803875 times the weight of the rock.

IF we increase the damage by the same amount we end up with about 42d6 in damage.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Pat

#7
April 20, 2021, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
[Lets see, an average cow weighs around 1,200 lbs
A large catapult can lob a rock about 176.37lbs (80 kg) in weight.
Trebuchets had about the same capacity for projectiles.

A large catapult does 6d6 damage Source: https://triplecrit.fandom.com/wiki/Catapult,_Heavy

Assuming the same projectile this would mean an even bigger catapult able to throw said 1,200 lbs (544.3108 kilos)

So a cow is about 6.803875 times the weight of the rock.

IF we increase the damage by the same amount we end up with about 42d6 in damage.
You forgot to assume a spherical cow...

In D&D at least, hit dice tends to increase with the linear dimension. Twice as tall or long, twice as many hit dice. But that's eight times as massive, so HD squares with the cube root of mass. If damage stays roughly proportional across sizes, then your 176.37 lb projectile scaled up to 1,200 lb should do about x1.895 as much damage ((1200/176.37)^(1/3)), or about 11d6.

GeekyBugle

#8
April 20, 2021, 11:10:09 PM
Quote from: Pat on April 20, 2021, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
[Lets see, an average cow weighs around 1,200 lbs
A large catapult can lob a rock about 176.37lbs (80 kg) in weight.
Trebuchets had about the same capacity for projectiles.

A large catapult does 6d6 damage Source: https://triplecrit.fandom.com/wiki/Catapult,_Heavy

Assuming the same projectile this would mean an even bigger catapult able to throw said 1,200 lbs (544.3108 kilos)

So a cow is about 6.803875 times the weight of the rock.

IF we increase the damage by the same amount we end up with about 42d6 in damage.
You forgot to assume a spherical cow...

In D&D at least, hit dice tends to increase with the linear dimension. Twice as tall or long, twice as many hit dice. But that's eight times as massive, so HD squares with the cube root of mass. If damage stays roughly proportional across sizes, then your 176.37 lb projectile scaled up to 1,200 lb should do about x1.895 as much damage ((1200/176.37)^(1/3)), or about 11d6.

Yeah, well... I was trying for realism  :P
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

jeff37923

#9
April 21, 2021, 02:01:12 AM
What about splash damage from a ballistic bovine impact? That cow ain't gonna stay in one piece when it hits.
"Meh."

GeekyBugle

#10
April 21, 2021, 02:11:12 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 21, 2021, 02:01:12 AM
What about splash damage from a ballistic bovine impact? That cow ain't gonna stay in one piece when it hits.

Oh no, I'm not doing the math for that, someone else is going to have to help you  :P
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Reckall

#11
April 21, 2021, 07:18:52 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2021, 07:41:14 PM
Not just cows. Any corpse would make a useful disease vector if you don't have any way to dispose of it.
Alexander the Great did something similar, IIRC.

And Roman soldiers, to spread disease among the enemy, threw rotting animal carcasses in the watercourses, in order to pollute the water in the city under siege.
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Zalman

#12
April 21, 2021, 09:33:04 AM
Death and destruction is spread much faster by hurling halflings over the wall.
Old School? Back in my day we just called it "School."

VisionStorm

#13
April 21, 2021, 09:47:56 AM
Quote from: Pat on April 20, 2021, 10:58:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
[Lets see, an average cow weighs around 1,200 lbs
A large catapult can lob a rock about 176.37lbs (80 kg) in weight.
Trebuchets had about the same capacity for projectiles.

A large catapult does 6d6 damage Source: https://triplecrit.fandom.com/wiki/Catapult,_Heavy

Assuming the same projectile this would mean an even bigger catapult able to throw said 1,200 lbs (544.3108 kilos)

So a cow is about 6.803875 times the weight of the rock.

IF we increase the damage by the same amount we end up with about 42d6 in damage.
You forgot to assume a spherical cow...

In D&D at least, hit dice tends to increase with the linear dimension. Twice as tall or long, twice as many hit dice. But that's eight times as massive, so HD squares with the cube root of mass. If damage stays roughly proportional across sizes, then your 176.37 lb projectile scaled up to 1,200 lb should do about x1.895 as much damage ((1200/176.37)^(1/3)), or about 11d6.

So...still higher than a Fireball then? I guess my next character is gonna have to be a Siege Engineer with weapon specialization in Bovine Trebuchets.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 21, 2021, 02:01:12 AM
What about splash damage from a ballistic bovine impact? That cow ain't gonna stay in one piece when it hits.

I'm guessing 1/5th of the full cow damage, at most, since those pieces are gonna be much smaller. So, 2d6-ish (going with 11d6 base damage), Reflex save for half?

Pat

#14
April 21, 2021, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 21, 2021, 09:47:56 AM
So...still higher than a Fireball then? I guess my next character is gonna have to be a Siege Engineer with weapon specialization in Bovine Trebuchets.
Better hope your next DM doesn't track ammo. Or encumbrance. Or make sure your character has a Heward's Handy Stockyard.
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3
User actions