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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: The Butcher on May 01, 2014, 08:32:46 AM

Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: The Butcher on May 01, 2014, 08:32:46 AM
The Troll Lord crew is Kickstarting a new printing for all three core books – Player's Handbook, Monsters & Treasure and Castle Keeper's Guide.

I'd jump at the chance of finally picking up a hard copy of the game, but I'm leery of the international shipping fees, which they haven't really stated upfront. I can't blame them, as many other crowdfunding publishers have had trouble paying for overseas delivery of rewards, but as a consumer I also can't pledge $99 (the pledge level for getting all three books) without knowing how much more I'll have to dish out to get the reward.

In any case, I think it's a great opportunity to pick up all three books at once, if you're in the US or Canada.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Warthur on May 01, 2014, 08:55:31 AM
Wait, they finally put out the Castle Keeper's Guide?

Is... is it any good?
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: The Butcher on May 01, 2014, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: Warthur;746148Wait, they finally put out the Castle Keeper's Guide?

Is... is it any good?

On yeah, they did. In 2011 or 2012 IIRC.

I only borrowed my buddy's copy for a few days. It struck me as a great GM's guide. It's got plenty of useful stuff. Nothing Earth-shattering, mind you, but a solid book. Everything from estimating urban populations to introducing firearms is covered.

It's no 1e DMG, but certainly looks better (to me) than any other DMG since.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Saladman on May 01, 2014, 10:14:04 AM
That reminds me of the question I had about the CKG at the time.  Which is, if I already have the AD&D DMG, how badly do I want or need the CKG?  Mainly if I run C&C specifically, or is anything in there I want (and don't have in the DMG) if I end up running another ruleset?
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: ArtemisAlpha on May 01, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;746146The Troll Lord crew is Kickstarting a new printing for all three core books – Player's Handbook, Monsters & Treasure and Castle Keeper's Guide.

I'd jump at the chance of finally picking up a hard copy of the game, but I'm leery of the international shipping fees, which they haven't really stated upfront. I can't blame them, as many other crowdfunding publishers have had trouble paying for overseas delivery of rewards, but as a consumer I also can't pledge $99 (the pledge level for getting all three books) without knowing how much more I'll have to dish out to get the reward.

In any case, I think it's a great opportunity to pick up all three books at once, if you're in the US or Canada.

The trolls are a good bunch - I suggest kicking them an email and tell them where you are, and I'm pretty certain they'll be able to give you a pretty good estimate of what the shipping will run.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Warthur on May 01, 2014, 11:19:29 AM
If the new printing is intended to go to game stores, how difficult would it be to give overseas customers the option to just reserve copies at their FLGS? Then their copies can be sent with the regular shipments.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: The Butcher on May 01, 2014, 11:35:13 AM
Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;746156The trolls are a good bunch - I suggest kicking them an email and tell them where you are, and I'm pretty certain they'll be able to give you a pretty good estimate of what the shipping will run.

Will do. Thanks for the tip!

Quote from: Warthur;746166If the new printing is intended to go to game stores, how difficult would it be to give overseas customers the option to just reserve copies at their FLGS? Then their copies can be sent with the regular shipments.

Reserve copies at my what again? Is this an online store like Amazon or Noble Knight? :D :(
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on May 13, 2014, 06:21:13 AM
So has anyone here gone in on this yet? I keep trying to decide on the level I want to pledge. I really like C&C, but I'm on the fence about spending $99 for everything. I think I probably will, but I need to see what my financials look like a bit closer to the date.

With the $99 level, there are an awful lot of stretch goal items you can end up getting, which is pretty cool.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: languagegeek on May 13, 2014, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;746146In any case, I think it's a great opportunity to pick up all three books at once, if you're in the US or Canada.
I must have missed something on the KS page. Does it say anything about shipping to Canada?
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Brad on May 13, 2014, 01:13:30 PM
Will they actually fix any of the errata that has existed since the first printing? TLG has a pretty piss-poor track record RE: editing, which is annoying since I like their products. I thought about pledging for $99 to get the CKG and MT in color, but doesn't even look like that'll happen unless they hit the stretch goals.

Also, this seems to kind of undermine the purpose of Kickstarter since it is definitely a pre-order.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on May 13, 2014, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Brad;749065Will they actually fix any of the errata that has existed since the first printing? TLG has a pretty piss-poor track record RE: editing, which is annoying since I like their products. I thought about pledging for $99 to get the CKG and MT in color, but doesn't even look like that'll happen unless they hit the stretch goals.

Also, this seems to kind of undermine the purpose of Kickstarter since it is definitely a pre-order.

It looks like MT is already in full color, since they hit the $25K goal. The CKG would hit at 45K, which might be a bit tougher (though not out of the realm of possibility...)
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Akrasia on May 13, 2014, 08:22:49 PM
I haven't been following C&C for many years now, but I am mildly curious about two things:

1. Were the books ever properly edited?  

(I was an early supporter of C&C, but once I started seeing OSR material being produced that was better edited and generally available for free, at least in PDF, I quickly shifted my focus and support.)

2. Was the SIEGE system ever fixed?
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Brad on May 14, 2014, 09:38:50 AM
Quote from: Akrasia;749201I haven't been following C&C for many years now, but I am mildly curious about two things:

1. Were the books ever properly edited?  

Nope. Seriously, there are spelling errors in my 1st edition PHB that still appear in the new 5th edition color copy.

A buddy of mine (not naming names, but he has been published quite frequently) knew a guy who did some editing for the trolls. Basically, most of his edits were refused and he asked not to be put in the credits.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Kravell on May 15, 2014, 06:33:36 PM
I've read online that the editing has gotten somewhat better but that isn't what I'm reading here. Does the editing interfere with the game rules? Or is it just annoying to read? Because the kickstarter looks pretty good for me, as I don't have any C&C stuff but really would like an updated AD&D 1E for world building and gaming.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Akrasia on May 15, 2014, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: Kravell;749692I've read online that the editing has gotten somewhat better but that isn't what I'm reading here. Does the editing interfere with the game rules? Or is it just annoying to read? Because the kickstarter looks pretty good for me, as I don't have any C&C stuff but really would like an updated AD&D 1E for world building and gaming.

S&W Complete is a better option IMO if you want a 'streamlined' AD&D 1e-ish system.  It includes an ascending AC (as an optional rule) and a single saving throw (which can be used for general task resolution, which is what the SIEGE system is supposed to be).  It has all the core AD&D classes except for the illusionist.  And the editing and art in S&W Complete is much better than C&C (at least the versions of C&C that I own and have seen).
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Skywalker on May 15, 2014, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;749708S&W Complete is a better option IMO if you want a 'streamlined' AD&D 1e-ish system.  It includes an ascending AC (as an optional rule) and a single saving throw (which can be used for general task resolution, which is what the SIEGE system is supposed to be).  It has all the core AD&D classes except for the illusionist.  And the editing and art in S&W Complete is much better than C&C (at least the versions of C&C that I own and have seen).

S&W Complete is good but I don't think its as streamlined as C&C, with things like its universal ability modifiers, consistently increasing BAB and core dice mechanic for all rolls.

The core DC mechanic in C&C may need to be altered to taste but its an easy fiddle.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Philotomy Jurament on May 15, 2014, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Akrasia;749708S&W Complete is a better option IMO if you want a 'streamlined' AD&D 1e-ish system.
Yeah, I agree.  I'd go for S&W Complete or OSRIC.  Of course, a lot of it depends on what is meant by "streamlined."
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: 1989 on May 15, 2014, 10:42:49 PM
This is depressing.

Another company having to rely on kickstarted to get books out.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Spinachcat on May 15, 2014, 11:13:12 PM
I am a S&W:White Box fan as my OD&D clone, but if you want AD&D 2.5e, I find that C&C is a top notch game that delivers Old School goodness with an imperfect, but streamlined system.

As for "fixing the Siege engine", I haven't had a problem at the table. Yeah, I know the Cleric vs. Thief Spot Traps thing, but its just not that big of deal at the table. If you want, you can easily just add +5 TN to non-thieves attempting to Spot Traps. Boom! Done.

I don't see the value in a $99 Kickstarter. If you just want to try out C&C, pick up any edition of C&C via eBay. I haven't seen enough "new stuff" in the latest edition when I flipped through it at the FLGS for it to justify replacing my C&C 1e.

To me, C&C is that great lost opportunity that could have become a highly successful game.

Quote from: 1989;749739This is depressing.

Its the new normal for niche hobbies.

Hasbro chose not to market or advertise D&D and no other RPG company has the money to mass market and apparently none of them can focus on guerrilla marketing either.

Dwindling membership =/= healthy hobby
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on May 22, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
They've updated—only $40k now for the CKG in color, and a lot more stretch incentives, including a custom flash drive, new spell book by Jim Ward, and some adventures. This is getting really, really tough to resist....

$32k and counting...
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Teazia on May 22, 2014, 09:27:32 PM
Quote from: 1989;749739This is depressing.

Another company having to rely on kickstarted to get books out.

They have already been to the KS well many times, they already did the PHG in full color on the last go round, so many supports are not happy about having to pay for it again.  

Based on personal experience with the trolls, I cannot agree that they are a bunch of good dudes either.  I do heartily recommend ADND3e over the C&C slop, it is C&C refined, with better art, and better editing.  And free.

Cheers
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Kravell on May 23, 2014, 10:25:47 PM
Very soon, for $99.99:

3 full color rulebooks in print and pdf
Print index for the 3 books
4 modules
Arms and armor guide
Epic level guide
Several dice
Zip drive with C&C logo
Poster
Character reference sheets
And maybe a magic book and another adventure.

Looks like a heck of a deal.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on May 26, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
Finally pulled the trigger for the $99 level. Looks like they'll hit the $40k level, and that means full color on all 3.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on June 02, 2014, 12:29:05 PM
A few hours left on this one. I have to say, I'm pretty excited about all the stretch goals—the adventures, the coins, the dice, and the rest.. Every time I think it's done, they find enough to take down another milestone. Good for them!!

Also, that C&C tankard you can get as an add-on is pretty sweet. There goes the gaming budget for the next few months...
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: The Butcher on June 02, 2014, 01:50:13 PM
Aw crap. $175 is still a truckload of money (for the $99 level plus int'l shipping) but by Jove it's also a truckload of rewards with the stretch gosls. Nine hours to decide...
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: languagegeek on June 02, 2014, 02:51:26 PM
Quote from: The Butcher;754871Aw crap. $175

Where would the $75 shipping charge be headed to?
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: The Butcher on June 02, 2014, 04:44:38 PM
Quote from: languagegeek;754879Where would the $75 shipping charge be headed to?

Brazil.

Beautiful, exotic, sun-kissed, Chaotic Evil Brazil.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: The Butcher on June 02, 2014, 04:52:51 PM
Quote from: languagegeek;754879Where would the $75 shipping charge be headed to?

Brazil. Beautiful, exotic, sun-kissed, Chaotic Evil Brazil.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on June 02, 2014, 06:54:37 PM
Dang, man, that's a lot of shipping, but it is a heckuva deal. That'd be enough gaming material to go through for a good while.


...And now the last room is opened. Secret door unlocked with bookmark magnifier, and a Aufstrag Part 5 and a giant poster of the dungeon awaiting.

I dunno....4 hours left....that's a pretty tall order!
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Skywalker on June 02, 2014, 07:05:32 PM
I was told roughly $70 to New Zealand as well.
Title: [Castles & Crusades] "Three Sisters" new printing Kickstarter
Post by: Zachary The First on June 02, 2014, 09:27:49 PM
Holy cow. $80k. They did it, with about 90 minutes to spare...