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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Pierce Inverarity on July 22, 2007, 11:39:51 PM

Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 22, 2007, 11:39:51 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110149348587&ssPageName=ADME

The plot thickens... Bidder 11 (feedback score 1000+, seems to be a dealer specializing in Golden Age comics) has recently joined the fray and shown the small fish he means business.

Nevertheless, at $2400 and 37 bids, the reserve has not yet been met.

What IS the reserve? Isn't this just a White Box that's really dirty? And where is Guido the Gypsy?

Only one thing's for sure: In 1 day and 15 hours it'll all be over.

I love this shit. :D
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Kyle Aaron on July 22, 2007, 11:46:56 PM
Pffft. I'll bet the buyer won't even play with it!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: jdrakeh on July 23, 2007, 12:04:43 AM
Quote from: Pierce InverarityIsn't this just a White Box that's really dirty?

I'm fairly certain that this was meant in jest, though if it wasn't, it's worth clarifying that the brown box is ORIGINAL D&D and the white box is a later "special edition" reprint of the original (the brown box still contains all of those trademark infringing references to "hobbits" and the like). I happened to own a brown box for a long time (still own the scans of the booklets, though the box itself was destroyed when a broken pipe burst).
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 23, 2007, 12:27:48 AM
I know, my friend... not least because since yesterday I am in possession of a White Box OCE, still in the original shrinkwrap.

For a double-digit figure, if you must know. :D
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Koltar on July 23, 2007, 12:45:49 AM
$2400 for a Roleplaying Game??

 I can get nostalgic - but thats just ridiculous.

- Ed C.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Jason Coplen on July 23, 2007, 01:19:59 AM
Yeah, that's way too much for an RPG. I might be able to wrap my head around $240, but $2,400 is way toooooo much.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Melan on July 23, 2007, 01:25:22 AM
Now, now, this thread is in need of some enlightnment. ;)

1) No, actually, $2400 is not a particularly high price for a woodgrain set, especially one in fairly good condition. Last year, they have been going as high as $5000 (and that's not counting 1st prints).

2) No, actually, the first two printings of the white box (the rare 4th and the more common 5th prints) still had hobbit and balrog references, only subsequent printings removed mention of these elements.

3) No, actually, it should be no surprise that rare collectables are expensive. People are willing to pay much more for early Superman comics and Barbie dolls. RPG collecting is small potatoes in comparison - any hobby where you can buy the original cover painting for the Dungeon Masters Guide for ca. $10.000 is cheap for the independently rich.

You are welcome for the fruits of my wisdom. :haw:
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Kyle Aaron on July 23, 2007, 01:36:48 AM
How much for an original copy of Harc as Varazslat, or M.A.G.U.S., A Kalandorok Kr'nikaja? :)

Edit: I still can't get over the fact that rpg.hu has got more members than rpg.net!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Melan on July 23, 2007, 02:50:35 AM
Quote from: Kyle AaronHow much for an original copy of Harc as Varazslat, or M.A.G.U.S., A Kalandorok Kr'nikaja? :)
The first can be bought new for ca. $5 plus shipping here (http://www.silverland.hu/shop/kategoria.php?CA=10&UID=20070723090322193.225.134.2) (I swear the people who run that game store have a copy of everything). The second tends to go for more, maybe around $30 or so.

QuoteEdit: I still can't get over the fact that rpg.hu has got more members than rpg.net!
And that's without a Tangency equivalent!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Drew on July 23, 2007, 02:56:59 AM
Quote from: Koltar$2400 for a Roleplaying Game??

 I can get nostalgic - but thats just ridiculous.

I agree that the pricing for brown box D&D seems ridiculously excessive, but try to remember that non-essentials objects are worth exactly what others are prepared to pay for them. Just look at philately.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: droog on July 23, 2007, 03:20:23 AM
Collectors are stupid.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Tyberious Funk on July 23, 2007, 03:27:46 AM
No way would I pay $2,400 for an RPG, unless it came with a complimentary blowjob from Jessica Alba.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Drew on July 23, 2007, 03:35:54 AM
Quote from: Tyberious FunkNo way would I pay $2,400 for an RPG, unless it came with a complimentary blowjob from Jessica Alba.

And thus the marketing strategy for D&D 4e was born...
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Sosthenes on July 23, 2007, 03:59:21 AM
Can I buy HackMaster for 1200 bucks and get a blowjob from Sandahl Bergman?
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Settembrini on July 23, 2007, 04:07:46 AM
Melan is right. It´s pathetic that the brown box doesn´t sell for hundreds of thousands.
It´s living proof, that there´s too few rich people out ther who collect D&D.

or that Vin Diesel doesn´t do eBay.

Maybe it´s the truth!

I think auctioning it off at Sotheby´s would yield higher bids!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: droog on July 23, 2007, 08:20:39 AM
You guys are definitely paying too much for your blowjobs. And $2400 is a stupid amount of money to pay for a simple roleplaying game you could probably make up yourself or find on the net.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Melan on July 23, 2007, 09:06:16 AM
"So don't buy it" seems to be the main guideline here. I was perfectly satisfied with my $55 White Box and am content to leave the more expensive printings to the collectors.

Not that I have a choice here, mind you. ;)
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: James J Skach on July 23, 2007, 09:57:42 AM
Quote from: droogYou guys are definitely paying too much for your blowjobs. And $2400 is a stupid amount of money to pay for a simple roleplaying game you could probably make up yourself or find on the net.
Yeah...I mean...why pay millions for a gauguin or a renoir?  You could just fingerpaint or paint-by-numbers yourself...or find an image on the net, right?
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 23, 2007, 11:55:51 AM
But that's the thing, James... there are a few major kinds of collectible items:

- artworks, which are beautiful* and rare, and which have some kind of intellectual value* beyond the material they're made of;

- jewelry and such ("objets d'art" as the auction houses call them), which lack the intellectual value but have the material one, and which are also rare (Faberge eggs);

- documents broadly conceived: everything from relics to autographs, which lacks aesthetic, intellectual and material value but which is a direct token of a famous author or event (score for Beethoven's Ninth, Magna Charta, nail from Napoleon's coffin or Christ's cross), and which is also rare;

- all sorts of other things that mix above parameters to varying degree (vintage cars etc. etc.);

- finally, stuff that's MERELY rare (Brown Box); and, worse, rare because FLAWED (Blue Mauritius, Alpha printing DMG).

It's the last category that's a bit infuriating to some people (not to me, I'm indifferent). But it's a complex matter. I once spent a whole year at a research institute trying to make some kind of systematic sense of collectors and their motives. It was a resounding failure.

*Let's not fight over these terms.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Koltar on July 23, 2007, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: Tyberious FunkNo way would I pay $2,400 for an RPG, unless it came with a complimentary blowjob from Jessica Alba.

 For me that would be Geena Davis, Lea Thompson, Glenn Close , maybe Robin Curtis....or maybe Condi.



- Ed C.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ian Absentia on July 23, 2007, 12:44:07 PM
I remember the first time I looked through a copy of the Comic Collector's Guide and discovered that one of my comics, which I had bought for a paltry $1.75, had been listed at $50.  I was quite excited, until the comic store owner, a friend of mine, pointed out, "Sure, it's worth $50...if you can find someone willing to pay that much."  Collecting is a funny thing that way -- you generally have something that isn't even worth the out-dated cover price, until you find someone else desperate enough to own it.  Or, better yet, two people desperate enought to get into a bidding war to own it.

!i!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Dr Rotwang! on July 23, 2007, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: Tyberious FunkNo way would I pay $2,400 for an RPG, unless it came with a complimentary blowjob from Jessica Alba.
Dude.  That's $2400.00.

Jessica Alba?  Aim higher.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: arminius on July 23, 2007, 01:53:31 PM
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity- finally, stuff that's MERELY rare (Brown Box); and, worse, rare because FLAWED (Blue Mauritius, Alpha printing DMG).
I wouldn't put the Brown Box in this category; it's more like "documents broadly conceived" translated into the mass-culture environment. (And in turn the category has precedents IMO in things like saints' relics. An interesting strain of development--off the top of my head, relics seem like the first explosion of obsession of "authenticity" as necessary for "significance". Contrast things like charms which only need to have the proper form or recipe, and possibly a blessing, to achieve their power.)
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 23, 2007, 02:11:29 PM
Yes, on reflection, the Brown Box is almost an autograph--one step short of Gygax's ur-manuscript. And yes, relics are definitely part of the document category.

What's at stake in authenticity is the indexical (a la CS Peirce) or contiguous relation between author/event and object: X physically caused Y (Freud wrote this letter to Fliess); or Y was once material part of episode/person X (splinter from the holy cross); or both (Shroud of Turin: impression of Christ's body).
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: droog on July 23, 2007, 02:28:50 PM
It's the very fact that it's "translated into the mass culture environment" that makes it objectively worthless. As long as even one copy exists--and there must be a lot more than that--it's value as a historical artifact is undiminished. The desire to have it and hold it is pure consumerism.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 23, 2007, 02:56:30 PM
Either that, or Brown Box fetishism is secularized relic worship in the age of mass-commodity consumerism. When absolutely everything's mass-reproduced, Brown Box is as close as you get to Napoleon's snuffbox.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Settembrini on July 23, 2007, 03:23:59 PM
Huh? A Ferrari is also "mass produced".

What´s wrong with consumerism, btw?
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 23, 2007, 03:30:35 PM
Quote from: SettembriniWhat´s wrong with consumerism, btw?

Shit, I dunno, how about everything?

That said, I cleared up that issue in my early twenties, no point in going there, you get it at that time or you don't.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Settembrini on July 23, 2007, 03:37:07 PM
Ahem?
Says the guy who pays $100+ for rare RPG supplements?

EDIT: Did you mean consumerism as in "conspicious consumption"? Because then we are on the same page. I thought you were against any luxury items and purchases. Which I would classify as a totally bonkers idea.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ronin on July 23, 2007, 03:40:49 PM
Quote from: SettembriniWhat´s wrong with consumerism, btw?
He would just rather wait years on a list to buy a Trabant, Set.:p :steeringwheel: :haw:
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ian Absentia on July 23, 2007, 03:48:10 PM
Quote from: SettembriniWhat´s wrong with consumerism, btw?
Consumerism is BAD.

GOOD = Hugs, making out, and a good movie on a Saturday night.

!i!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Settembrini on July 23, 2007, 03:50:33 PM
Quotea good movie on a Saturday night.

Huh? How is this not consumerism?
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 23, 2007, 03:52:43 PM
Buying stuff is not "consumerism." :killingme:

Do I need to explain to you what a commodity is? Yep, I do. But then, I'm not getting paid for this, and as you know: TANSTAAFL.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ian Absentia on July 23, 2007, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: SettembriniHuh? How is this not consumerism?
I should have qualified this statement.  It's only good if you sneak into the theater or steal the video from the rental store.

No, seriously, I'm sorry.  I was making a bad cross-forum joke (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=121281&postcount=31).

!i!

[Edit: By the way, yes, I think we're all describing "consumerism" as "conspicuous consumption", the purchase and accumulation of un-needed goods for the sake of simple, personal gratification.]
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Settembrini on July 23, 2007, 04:00:14 PM
Mmm.
What actually is a "commodity" [I even think it´s the wrong term you use. A commodity for me is something like gold or timber or frozen orange juice] is totally in the eye of the beholder. It´s all about your personal expectations for utility. And utility is as relative a concept as could ever be. It´s all about preferences, baby.

Only if you prescribe what preferences are good and which are bad can you even begin to classify luxury goods into "consumerist" and non-consumerist.

And your $100+ plus game IS a luxury article. As are nearly all articles that you will and have purchased in your life, Pierce.

EDIT: yeah conspicious consumption is stupid. But it´s not EVIL.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Sosthenes on July 23, 2007, 04:14:13 PM
Meh, "consumerism". Marxist claptrap.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: J Arcane on July 23, 2007, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI remember the first time I looked through a copy of the Comic Collector's Guide and discovered that one of my comics, which I had bought for a paltry $1.75, had been listed at $50.  I was quite excited, until the comic store owner, a friend of mine, pointed out, "Sure, it's worth $50...if you can find someone willing to pay that much."  Collecting is a funny thing that way -- you generally have something that isn't even worth the out-dated cover price, until you find someone else desperate enough to own it.  Or, better yet, two people desperate enought to get into a bidding war to own it.

!i!
I was deeply amused to find some guys online priceguide for D&D books, and all the prices were easily at least twice the going rate on eBay.

Really, the market's just wierd, especially in RPGs.  Often times you can find the same OOP game at completely different prices all over the net.  And you kinda wonder why anyone would buy from a place like Noble Knight, which for any of the good stuff often charges original retail or more, when Amazon or eBay often have the same book for far less.

And yet, apparently enough people buy from them that NK actually bought out Titan Games.  And apparently enough people sell to them to keep them stocked, even though they generally only offer a pathetic fraction of their list price even on tradein.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: arminius on July 23, 2007, 06:12:05 PM
IMO once authenticity becomes part of the equation, in such a way that even the producer can no longer control it, it's stopped being "just" consumerism.

There aren't any more 1963 Jaguar E-types being made, and there never will be.

Though in the case of cars (especially) you get the problem of when, exactly, it ceases to be "authentic" after however many repairs and parts replacements. I think that collectors have their own standards, though, with a hierararchy from original factory-installed parts at the top, down through "authentic" spares and finally what might be called aftermarket replica parts.

It's all fetishism, it was when Arthur pulled the sword from the stone and it is today. Good, bad, I dunno. Actually I do know, when I go to a museum it's worth it to me to know that I'm looking at an actual set of lorica segmentata from the 1st century, rather than a perfect replica.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ian Absentia on July 23, 2007, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: Elliot WilenIt's all fetishism, it was when Arthur pulled the sword from the stone and it is today.
Sword-in-stone = Mint-in-box?

!i!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Tyberious Funk on July 23, 2007, 07:15:13 PM
Quote from: droogYou guys are definitely paying too much for your blowjobs.

I think of it as an investment.  A blowjob from Jessica Alba?  I'd be earning free drinks of that story for at least a few years.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: arminius on July 23, 2007, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSword-in-stone = Mint-in-box?
Droog is not, perhaps, an anarcho-syndicalist, nevertheless there's a funny echo to this conversation.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ian Absentia on July 23, 2007, 11:16:08 PM
Um...ouch?

!i!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Drew on July 24, 2007, 01:55:06 AM
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSword-in-stone = Mint-in-box?

Only if Gary Gygax's hand erupts from Lake Geneva clutching a copy.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 24, 2007, 02:05:11 AM
We're at $2450 now, 13 hours to go, reserve not met.

My prediction: wild sniperyfest ensues circa 12.30 PDT, topping out at $3500. However, reserve will still not be met, Brown Box goes unsold.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ronin on July 24, 2007, 08:26:55 AM
Quote from: DrewOnly if Gary Gygax's hand erupts from Lake Geneva clutching a copy.
Thats the most amusing thing I've read today. :)
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Melan on July 24, 2007, 09:13:50 AM
Must have been a dull day, then? :haw:
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Ronin on July 24, 2007, 09:39:49 AM
Well yeah it has been actually...:(
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: beeber on July 24, 2007, 09:44:19 AM
Quote from: Pierce InverarityWe're at $2450 now, 13 hours to go, reserve not met.

My prediction: wild sniperyfest ensues circa 12.30 PDT, topping out at $3500. However, reserve will still not be met, Brown Box goes unsold.

that sounds like typical ebay.  i'll have to watch the fun, just for the hell of it (slow day).  what would that be, 15:30 eastern time?  chrono-challenged, i can be. . . .
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Settembrini on July 24, 2007, 03:21:47 PM
US $2,520.01

No sniping. Lame!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 24, 2007, 03:38:10 PM
Pussies!
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Melan on July 25, 2007, 12:45:28 AM
Clearly, a disappointing turnout. Come on, Acaeum guys, have you no decency?
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: hgjs on July 25, 2007, 02:38:23 AM
Quote from: Pierce InverarityBuying stuff is not "consumerism." :killingme:

Do I need to explain to you what a commodity is? Yep, I do. But then, I'm not getting paid for this, and as you know: TANSTAAFL.

The definition of a commodity has nothing to do with consumerism.  Trying to cover up ignorance with arrogance is pathetic; is this some sort of geek defense mechanism?  When you don't know shit, sneer and bluster, and hope those around you will assume you know what you're talking about.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: arminius on July 25, 2007, 02:33:24 PM
I think the argument goes a bit like this.

Value something for its rarity (actual rarity, not a producer who artificially limits production or inflates price to create an impression of exclusivity): not consumerism.

Value it for beauty or utility,  historical significance or intellectual content: not consumerism.

Value it beyond any of the above, basically because you've been taught to value it...or again because of artificial rarity: consumerism. Diamonds for example are certainly nice to look at, but they're basically a commodity whose availability is manipulated by a cartel. Now, this can partly be explained in terms of keeping prices up and avoiding swamping demand (as with OPEC), but I believe the goal is also to keep prices up in order to maintain an artificial sense of value.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on July 25, 2007, 03:00:04 PM
Quote from: hgjsThe definition of a commodity has nothing to do with consumerism.  

Depending on where you're coming from politically, it has everything to do with that. See commodity fetish. But this is an RPG board. I raised the issue, it's an important one but not appropriate for this board, I was needlessly confrontational about it, and that was a mistake. Let's talk about games.
Title: Brown Box D&D on Ebay, a steal at $2400
Post by: beeber on July 25, 2007, 03:58:47 PM
how about games about commodities?  anyone know any good ones?

i keep meaning to do the solo traveller trading thing.  that's close, i guess.