Anyone have any play experiences with Barbarians of Lemuria? I've been thinking of switching to it (or Savage Worlds) as a metasystem to run S&S, Pulp, and maybe even high fantasy. I've done some research into hacks and variants, and it seems really easy to do conversions to different genres. There's also an option to use 2d10 over 2d6, which extends character development somewhat (nice for long campaigns). As far as resources, I've owned the .pdf since it was offered free, and also have the Legendary Edition. Picked up Dicey Tales, as well as Barbarians of the Aftermath. Was thinking about nabbing Legends of Steel, as well. It also seems to setup, somewhat, for tacking on FATE-style Aspects. As for SW, I have the core rules and supplements for fantasy, horror, supers and pulp.
Anyhoo, my interest is in your play experiences, if any, with these systems, and your opinions about running either of these systems in campaign mode. I'm much more about speed/ease of play, and SW feels more complicated when it comes to threat creation. However, as I have not yet run it (outside a small one shot), I am unsure of how it actually runs.
Thanks in advance.
I've GMed the game for quite a while now (and released the game in french).
I've run it exclusively for S&S though, for long campaigns don't be too generous with XPs (1 maybe 2 XPs per session), as characters are fairly competent from the start the players will accept a slower increase in power. That's pretty much all you need to do to run a longer campaign.
Make sure you know the sorcery rules well as it can really go out of hand with a creative player.
I suggets you take a look at DOGS OF WAR (http://www.ruleofthedice.com/2011/11/let-loose-dogs-of-war.html) as well if you want to use the rules in a different setting. I'm not especially fond of Barbarians of the Aftermath as it gets way too fiddly and ruins, imho, the simplicity of the BoL ruleset.
For more options you can take a look at Honor and Intrigue (http://wineandsavages.blogspot.fr/2013/01/review-honor-intrigue.html) as well (too fiddly for my taste but there some good ideas there).
Thank you, kobayashi. I appreciate the feedback. If I may, what would be your opinion on:
*Using 2d10, with 12 as a target number?
*Incorporating other funky dice for weapons (d4 for small weapons, d6 for medium, d8 for large)?
Also: do you use the dice roll armor Soak, or the static number? I was thinking static number, but I sort like the idea of a Soak roll. Makes it swingier, and I like that.
I ran a short BoL campaign a while back. I love the system, specifically how much flavour it manages to pack in a very compact. This is a rules light system, but not the sort of rules light cuts corners and leaves all the characters looking the same. By the time you've chosen your Careers (which I think work a lot better in BoL than they ever did in Warhammer FRP) you've got a character that feels a complete and well rounded, more so than any number of crunchier systems.
Boons are perhaps the one area to look out for. The basic mechanic for Boons is fine, but note that not all Boons are made equal, not by a long stretch. If your not playing with the built in Lemuria setting you don't really have much of a system or rationale for assigning Boons. Also if you play a lot of BoL eventually the same old Boons keep coming up.
I've been running an Honor+Intrigue campaign for about 2.5 years now. It is based on the BoL game system with additional detail to support swashbuckling fencing and dueling.
I haven't tried using 2D10 with 12 as a target number. I like the simplicity of using D6s. The only down side to the 2d6 roll is that some of the PCs have gotten quite good with certain skills and actions to the point where they nearly cannot fail a roll against low level opponents. I'm actually leaning towards just narrating success in situations like that as it would be a faster way of getting to an almost identical result.
I've been tempted to incorporate different dice to allow for variations in damage for carbine vs. musket or horse pistol vs. pistols with barrel lengths below a foot or so. But I've resisted as I like the aesthetic purity of sticking with D6s.
I roll for armor separately. Because I like the swinginess.
Quote from: Soylent Green;793394I ran a short BoL campaign a while back. I love the system, specifically how much flavour it manages to pack in a very compact. This is a rules light system, but not the sort of rules light cuts corners and leaves all the characters looking the same. By the time you've chosen your Careers (which I think work a lot better in BoL than they ever did in Warhammer FRP) you've got a character that feels a complete and well rounded, more so than any number of crunchier systems.
Boons are perhaps the one area to look out for. The basic mechanic for Boons is fine, but note that not all Boons are made equal, not by a long stretch. If your not playing with the built in Lemuria setting you don't really have much of a system or rationale for assigning Boons. Also if you play a lot of BoL eventually the same old Boons keep coming up.
I wonder if maybe Boons could be replaced with FATE-style aspects? Then they'd be wide and finite (maybe tapped once a session to grant the Advantage roll).
Quote from: Soylent Green;793394I ran a short BoL campaign a while back. I love the system, specifically how much flavour it manages to pack in a very compact. This is a rules light system, but not the sort of rules light cuts corners and leaves all the characters looking the same. By the time you've chosen your Careers (which I think work a lot better in BoL than they ever did in Warhammer FRP) you've got a character that feels a complete and well rounded, more so than any number of crunchier systems.
Boons are perhaps the one area to look out for. The basic mechanic for Boons is fine, but note that not all Boons are made equal, not by a long stretch. If your not playing with the built in Lemuria setting you don't really have much of a system or rationale for assigning Boons. Also if you play a lot of BoL eventually the same old Boons keep coming up.
I wonder if maybe Boons could be replaced with FATE-style aspects? Then they'd be wide and finite (maybe tapped once a session to grant the Advantage roll). If compelled by a Boon, you get a Hero Point?
Quote from: cranebump;793405I wonder if maybe Boons could be replaced with FATE-style aspects? Then they'd be wide and finite (maybe tapped once a session to grant the Advantage roll). If compelled by a Boon, you get a Hero Point?
Fate was originally conceived as an add on for other systems. As such my first instinct would be to keep the Boons and add Aspects. Maybe keep the number of Aspect low. Three Aspects seems to be currently in fashion. Normally I feel that is too few but if you already have Career and Boons, three Aspects seems plenty.
But really, the only way to find out is to try it.
Quote from: Soylent Green;793428Fate was originally conceived as an add on for other systems. As such my first instinct would be to keep the Boons and add Aspects. Maybe keep the number of Aspect low. Three Aspects seems to be currently in fashion. Normally I feel that is too few but if you already have Career and Boons, three Aspects seems plenty.
But really, the only way to find out is to try it.
I might give it a shot. I think it might be interesting to drop Boons/Flaws and just use Aspects. The double-edged nature of them can create advantage, as well as feed into Hero Points via compels. Of course, I might want to run the system as is first. Might do everything I want without a tweak.
Thanks, all!
Quote from: cranebump;793366If I may, what would be your opinion on:
*Using 2d10, with 12 as a target number?
*Incorporating other funky dice for weapons (d4 for small weapons, d6 for medium, d8 for large)?
Also: do you use the dice roll armor Soak, or the static number? I was thinking static number, but I sort like the idea of a Soak roll. Makes it swingier, and I like that.
I've only used 2D6 so I can't really speak of the 2D10 option, my advice would be to go with the game as written and then make changes if the need arise.
Funky dice with weapons ? Why not but then I'd use funky dice for armor as well.
I use the dice roll armor soak, reminds me of the Elric/Stormbringer rpgs :)
Quote from: cranebump;793327Anyone have any play experiences with Barbarians of Lemuria? I've been thinking of switching to it (or Savage Worlds) as a metasystem to run S&S, Pulp, and maybe even high fantasy.
If I may chime in about SW:
I've run a short Hyborian Age game using SW a few years back.
I think SW is a fun system, but I felt it let a little to be desired in the combat department. There's a lot of getting stunned (Shaken) and not acting until you succeed a Spirit roll, to a relatively limited incidence of actual Wounds, both for PCs and NPCs.
The end result, to me, felt a bit too much like the Conan Saturday morning cartoon, and not nearly enough like a good Howardian savage fantasy yarn. But admittedly this was (a) based on a partly incorrect reading of the damage rules, (b) not a result reported by other people playing SW, and (c) before the "gritty damage" option in the more recent (Deluxe) revision of the system.
Nowadays I'd default to RQ6 for the sort of gritty, brutal sword-and-sorcery I wanted back then, but if you want something rules-lighter and possibly lighter-hearted, SW strikes me as a good choice.
I've played in a SW swashbuckling game and did not enjoy the system as much as I perhaps anticipated based on other people's experiences, mostly for reasons Butcher already mentioned.
I've ran BoL for a group of people mostly unfamiliar with the S&S subgenre and it succeeded admirably in both emulating the source material and providing an experience thoroughly enjoyed by all participants.
I've played a Dogs of W*A*R one-shot which also was great fun.
I own the Dicey Tales pulp supplement and Legends of Steel. Honor & Intrigue and Barbarians of the Aftermath look like solid variants but too fiddly to my taste. There's also an attractive-looking Greek Mythology/Harryhausen type of BoL-based game available named Heroes of Hellas which I may end up checking out.
Quote from: 3rik;793709Honor & Intrigue and Barbarians of the Aftermath look like solid variants but too fiddly to my taste.
The reason a lot of people like BoL is that it is so straightforward you can just get on with the game. These two games take some of that away making it more complex in play. I suppose you can just subtract the more fiddly bits when playing these (that's what I'd do). However, for people who think BoL is too simple, these games add enough to appease many of them.
Quote from: 3rik;793709There's also an attractive-looking Greek Mythology/Harryhausen type of BoL-based game available named Heroes of Hellas which I may end up checking out.
Heroes of Hellas though doesn't add too many fiddly bits - what it does add is a couple of extras to make the game more "Mythic Greece". Nothing it adds overcomplicates the system and it plays wonderfully. HoH is my favourite BoL variant after Dogs of W*A*R (and the illustrations by Peter Frain (who illustrated Duty & Honour and Beat to Quarters) are excellent).
How much can the extensive material for "Mazes & Minotaurs" be used with "Heroes of Hellas"?
=
Quote from: Simon W;793732The reason a lot of people like BoL is that it is so straightforward you can just get on with the game.
I can see that. That's what appeals to me. Looks like it would work very well for sandbox play. I wonder, though, how it handles the long term. Seems like you can get some powerful characters pretty quickly.
Quote from: cranebump;793787I can see that. That's what appeals to me. Looks like it would work very well for sandbox play. I wonder, though, how it handles the long term. Seems like you can get some powerful characters pretty quickly.
Depends how often you give out advancement points. I give them out very sparingly. It's up to the GM how quickly PCs advance, after all.
Quote from: Simon W;793811Depends how often you give out advancement points. I give them out very sparingly. It's up to the GM how quickly PCs advance, after all.
I ran a fairly long campaign and found that doling out XP at a low rate made advancement not an issue at my table. It probably helped than neither I or my players consider mechanical character advancement that important for an enjoyable game. The characters advanced in the world by leaps and bounds - rag tag sell swords ending up as a general and a nobleman over the course of the campaign. But the numbers on their sheets changed just a little.
If your players value advancement as a major part of the game, they might be put off by you issuing XP in a stingy manner. But remind them that BoL PCs start out very head and shoulders above most people in the game world, which is how they are able to mow down hoards of rabble in the best Conan tradition - from the first session. It's not a zero to hero game.
And it's my favourite system, so be aware that the above is a fanboy speaking - YMMV and all that.
Now back to prepping my BoL Firefly game that I'll be running on Sunday (it's so easy to hack!)
Quote from: cranebump;793787I can see that. That's what appeals to me. Looks like it would work very well for sandbox play. I wonder, though, how it handles the long term. Seems like you can get some powerful characters pretty quickly.
We've been playing Honor+Intrigue for 2.5 years. We play weekly for about 3.5 hours a session. I give out approximately 2 APs per session. After 2.5 years, the Advancement Point totals* for the six major PCs are as follows:
Guy........Lucien......Gaston...Gaétan....Norbert...Corsair
211.........126...........205........174..........123.........48
Typically only 4 of the PCs play at any one time. All the PCs are still quite playable vs. NPCs and with each other.
In fact, you can get some powerful characters right from the start. Norbert (Might 4, Brawl 3), for example, was far and away the best brawler of the group from the first moment he played despite being 80 or more APs behind some of the more experienced PCs. And by using Might-based melee attack like Moulinet he can be almost as devasting in melee as the best of the duelists.
* Only Guy and Gaston have played the entire 2.5 years. Other PCs have either dropped out or been added as time has gone on, which is the reason that the AP totals are so varied.
Quote from: Bren;793819We've been playing Honor+Intrigue for 2.5 years. We play weekly for about 3.5 hours a session. I give out approximately 2 APs per session. After 2.5 years, the Advancement Point totals* for the six major PCs are as follows:
Guy........Lucien......Gaston...Gaétan....Norbert...Corsair
211.........126...........205........174..........123.........48
Typically only 4 of the PCs play at any one time. All the PCs are still quite playable vs. NPCs and with each other.
In fact, you can get some powerful characters right from the start. Norbert (Might 4, Brawl 3), for example, was far and away the best brawler of the group from the first moment he played despite being 80 or more APs behind some of the more experienced PCs. And by using Might-based melee attack like Moulinet he can be almost as devasting in melee as the best of the duelists.
* Only Guy and Gaston have played the entire 2.5 years. Other PCs have either dropped out or been added as time has gone on, which is the reason that the AP totals are so varied.
About where do the characters stand, stat-wise, if I may ask?
As you wish...
Guy de Bourges
Courtier and Spy (b. 1600), Lucien's and Fr. Signoret's cousin SR 8
Motivation: Thrill Seeker
Might 0, Daring 2, Savvy 3, Flair 3
Brawl 0, Melee 2, Ranged 1, Defense 2
Courtier 2, Don Juan 1, Traveler 1, Spy 2
Lifeblood 10, Composure 3, Advantage 3, Fortune 6
Languages: French(N), Italian(N), Spanish(F), Hand Signs(F)
Boons: Crack Shot, Devil's Own Luck, Good Etiquette, Master of Disguise, Savant, Spy Network (multiple Spy 0 agents), 2xTrusted Companions (Babar Fabré, Collette du Pré)
Flaws: Landlubber, Obsession (Finish the Mission)
Lucien de Bourges
King's Musketeer (b. 1601), Guy's cousin SR 7
All for one and one for all
Might 0, Daring 3, Savvy 1, Flair 2*, (Charm bonus in France)
Brawl 0, Melee 3, Ranged 1, Defense 2
Don Juan 1, Duelist 2, Soldier 2, Gentleman Farmer 0
Lifeblood 10, Composure 3, Advantage 5/6*, Fortune 5
Languages: French (N), Italian, +1 slot
Boons: Daredevil, Dueling Style Mastery (French, Spanish), Military Order (King's Musketeers*), Trusted companion (Bertin)
Flaws: Active Duty (King's Musketeers), Haunted (Siege of Negripelisse)
Gaston Thibeault ⚜ (b. 1593)
Position: Lieutenant Picardy Regiment, Fencing Master, Norbert's cousin SR 6
Motivation: Bravery, his own and other's
Appearance: Tall and weathered with long mustaches and gray-green eyes under a battered hat.
Might 2, Daring 3*, Savvy 2, Flair 0
Brawl 1, Melee 4, Ranged 0, Defense 1
Soldier 3, Ruffian 0, Poet 2, Duelist 2
Lifeblood 15, Composure 3, Advantage 6, Fortune 3
Languages: French(N), Italian (F), German
Boons: Dueling Style Mastery (Italian, Old Style, Drake's), *Laugh-in-the-Face-of-Danger (Bonus Die vs. fear, intimidation, and social combat), Hard-to-Kill, The Look (Bonus Die to intimidation), Military Order (Marines: Sailor at Soldier-1, +1LB). Artistic (Bonus die creating or appraising art),
Flaws: Arrogant (disdain for non-soldiers); Hot-Tempered (proud and prickly about honor)
Father Gaétan Signoret
Jesuit Priest & noble (b. 1601), Guy's cousin SR 8
Motivation: True character is tempered by fire
Might 1, Daring 3, Savvy 2, Flair 2
Brawl 0, Melee 2, Ranged 1, Defense 2
Noble 1, Duelist 2, Hunter 1, Clergy 1, Scholar (History) 1, Physician (Galenic) 1
Lifeblood 11, Composure 3, Advantage 5, Fortune 7
Languages: French (N), Latin (F), Spanish (F), Hand Signs (B),
Boons: Born in the Saddle (Bonus Die), Dueling Style Mastery: (Spanish, French), Favored by Fortune, Friends in Low Places, Membership Secret Society (Society of Jesus)
Flaws: Incompetent Servant, Obligation (Society of Jesus)
Norbert Thibeault
Norbert of Picardy or Norbert the Giant (b. 1596), Gaston's cousin SR 2
Motivation: Altruism
Might 4, Daring 1, Savvy 1, Flair 1
Brawl 3, Melee 1, Ranged 1, Defense 1
Farmboy 0, Pugilist 1, Brute 3, Performer 1, Soldier 0
Lifeblood 16, Composure 3, Advantage 3, Fortune 3
Languages: French (N), Latin (B), Dutch (B)
Boons: Beast Friend (Hercule the Rat), Hard to Kill, Herculean Might, Strength Feat (Bonus Die), Thick-Skinned (1 Protection)
Flaws: Lumbering (penalty die balance), Unsettling (penalty die social situations)
The Foul Corsair - Hippolyte de Bouchard
Hippo-leet de Boo-chard
Privateer Captain, Owes his life and service to Norbert
Pirate – Motivation: The Code of the Pirates SR 1/SR 7
Might 3, Daring 1, Savvy -1, Flair 1
Brawl 3, Melee 2, Ranged -1, Defense 0
Brute 2, Prisoner 0, Pirate 2, Duelist 0
Lifeblood 15, Composure 3, Advantage 4, Fortune 4
Languages: French (N), Lingua Franca (B) (doesn't know how to read any language)
Boons: Hard to kill, Keen Hearing (Bonus Die for hearing checks), Thick-Skinned, Dueling Style (Mastery Drake's)
Flaws: Absent Minded (GM may spring things on you that you forgot=+1FP),
Missing Right Eye (Penalty Die for Ranged Attacks or spotting things)
Am I right in thinking the system is essentially a S&S version of Traveller?
Quote from: Bilharzia;794110Am I right in thinking the system is essentially a S&S version of Traveller?
Nope.
Much appreciated Bren.