Tenkar's Tavern reports without further comment (https://www.tenkarstavern.com/2020/02/offered-without-comment.html?fbclid=IwAR13PCHr80mk0h-Ikv7QGSl4VGk8-L7eLG3PLO4UcLkphjDEarp20kdOSt8):
Quote from: Erik TenkarOffered Without Comment...
because I am literally without words.
note: not a hack
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FKT_0BfzfaY/XkF3_w1wY5I/AAAAAAAA6_c/q0WTyxMNLB0CsZhhyzlGi3LaZikV2T7HACLcBGAsYHQ/s400/Screenshot%2B2020-02-10%2B10.15.27.png)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5o65Ds3FP14/XkF3_wnc-2I/AAAAAAAA6_g/oVh6DLhnsukJwL2U7ONM27yNfZ3CGMT4gCLcBGAsYHQ/s400/Screenshot%2B2020-02-10%2B10.15.50.png)
For those unfamiliar, Bob Bledsaw II took over Judges Guild after his father passed away.
And while I know our President is portrayed in the second picture, I hope everyone will keep this focused on the topic, which isn't the President but is the head of an RPG company.
To me, this crosses the line. The "Jewsmedia" is pretty clear call-out to "Secret Jewish Control of Propaganda" which dates back over a thousand years and is, unquestionable, a long standing traditional element of old school antisemitism. I can't think of any generous way to read that phrase and spin it as anything other than that.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
The first one, taken by itself, could go either way. It is true that a lot of good art has come out of deep suffering. Is he being blase about the horrors of human oppression, or just tone deaf (no pun intended)? The second entry seems to clear that one right up. YIKES!
Greetings!
Hmmm...it made me think of the notable atheist/Jewish organizations and law firms that are frequently loudly critical of any expressions of overt Christianity in America. "In the name of Jesus Christ" being said by the President, I would expect to hear several loud critical editorials by atheist/Jewish commentators in several newspapers. It's an expected response from such typically Leftist quarters. I note that you don't typically hear such critiques by Conservative, traditional Jewish circles or organizations.
Ben Shapiro, for example, is a brilliant scholar and commentator, and the head of the Daily Wire, a hugely successful Conservative Internet news program.
That's just my initial impression. I would hope that Mr. Bledslaw believes there are outstanding and wonderful Conservative Jews. The Leftist and Atheists get lots of attention, and are loud, but they are not the sole voices of Jewish people in America, thankfully. I don't like or support Leftist Jews not because they are Jews, but because they are Leftists or Atheists.
Do you guys really think he is anti-Semitic? He hates all Jewish people?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w
Who knows what he actually thinks, but "Jewsmedia" is definitely jumping the Shark! (:D)
This isn't a nuanced critique or a reasonable response, or even a slightly salty response to something that actually happened. No legitimate Jewish org, left or right, pro-Trump or anti-Trump, is upset about this. It didn't happen. It's a textbook antisemitic talking point.
Quote from: SHARK;1121672Greetings!
Hmmm...it made me think of the notable atheist/Jewish organizations and law firms that are frequently loudly critical of any expressions of overt Christianity in America. "In the name of Jesus Christ" being said by the President, I would expect to hear several loud critical editorials by atheist/Jewish commentators in several newspapers. It's an expected response from such typically Leftist quarters. I note that you don't typically hear such critiques by Conservative, traditional Jewish circles or organizations.
Ben Shapiro, for example, is a brilliant scholar and commentator, and the head of the Daily Wire, a hugely successful Conservative Internet news program.
That's just my initial impression. I would hope that Mr. Bledslaw believes there are outstanding and wonderful Conservative Jews. The Leftist and Atheists get lots of attention, and are loud, but they are not the sole voices of Jewish people in America, thankfully. I don't like or support Leftist Jews not because they are Jews, but because they are Leftists or Atheists.
Do you guys really think he is anti-Semitic? He hates all Jewish people?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I think a millennia of "Jews secretly control the strings of power and spread propaganda" being used as an excuse to kill Jews makes it super clear it's antisemitic. I can tell you it makes me feel like I have to either hide my religion or somehow justify my religion if I touch anything media-related (and I used to write for ComicBookResources.com for example).
Pretending "but he doesn't hate all Jews, just some" is an excuse for spreading that kind of message seems...a very bad idea.
Well, he got everyone's attention. *golf clap*
Quote from: Brad;1121675https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w
I do? Obviously? It was news enough to make Tenkar speechless?
Cool if you don't care. Not sure why you felt the need to reply though if you don't care.
I just exchanged some private messages with him.
He asked me not to share his text, which I will respect. I will only say yes, he absolutely believes what he said. This does not appear to be some slip of the tongue or poorly chosen phrase by him where he meant something different than what he said.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121680I do? Obviously? It was news enough to make Tenkar speechless?
Cool if you don't care. Not sure why you felt the need to reply though if you don't care.
Because this seems EXTREMELY unrelated to gaming. Might as well have just made a thread called, "Old man figures out how to rant on the Internet."
Quote from: Mistwell;1121678I think a millennia of "Jews secretly control the strings of power and spread propaganda" being used as an excuse to kill Jews makes it super clear it's antisemitic. I can tell you it makes me feel like I have to either hide my religion or somehow justify my religion if I touch anything media-related (and I used to write for ComicBookResources.com for example).
Pretending "but he doesn't hate all Jews, just some" is an excuse for spreading that kind of message seems...a very bad idea.
Greetings!
Thank you, Mistwell. Well, fuck. That is sad, and shocking, my friend. I don't know him, but the company had a good reputation previously. *sigh* Such stupidity, you know?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Mistwell;1121678I think a millennia of "Jews secretly control the strings of power and spread propaganda" being used as an excuse to kill Jews makes it super clear it's antisemitic. I can tell you it makes me feel like I have to either hide my religion or somehow justify my religion if I touch anything media-related (and I used to write for ComicBookResources.com for example).
Pretending "but he doesn't hate all Jews, just some" is an excuse for spreading that kind of message seems...a very bad idea.
That sucks man. Take care of yourself, your family and your friends as you need to, but don't let them make you hide a part of who you are. You don't need to defend Judaism or Israel, but you don't need to apologize either. If they don't like you, fuck em.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121679Well, he got everyone's attention. *golf clap*
That's true, isn't it.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121680I do? Obviously? It was news enough to make Tenkar speechless?
Cool if you don't care. Not sure why you felt the need to reply though if you don't care.
Brad likes to do this sometimes.
**EDIT***
A real shame. That's a great company that's put out fantastic products.
Quote from: Brendan;1121677Who knows what he actually thinks, but "Jewsmedia" is definitely jumping the Shark! (:D)
This isn't a nuanced critique or a reasonable response, or even a slightly salty response to something that actually happened. No legitimate Jewish org, left or right, pro-Trump or anti-Trump, is upset about this. It didn't happen. It's a textbook antisemitic talking point.
Greetings!
Brendan! Interesting. Thank you. Well, I'm glad that no legitimate Jewish group is upset about President Trump being Christian. Like you said, this is just boilerplate anti-Semitic talking point. That's fucked, Brendan. I admit, I am not well-versed in all the various anti-Semitic language. Mindless bigotry is just so stupid.
Bledslaw is something of an RPG luminary, don't you think? How does his remarks make you feel, my friend? I am saddened, and shocked, to be honest.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
So this is all public on his page:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ux8Ehwm.jpg)
Note his comment on this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/8wTy9OO.jpg)
Quote from: SHARK;1121688Greetings!
Brendan! Interesting. Thank you. Well, I'm glad that no legitimate Jewish group is upset about President Trump being Christian. Like you said, this is just boilerplate anti-Semitic talking point. That's fucked, Brendan. I admit, I am not well-versed in all the various anti-Semitic language. Mindless bigotry is just so stupid.
Bledslaw is something of an RPG luminary, don't you think? How does his remarks make you feel, my friend? I am saddened, and shocked, to be honest.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Saddened as well and frustrated.
I get it to some extent. If your only exposure to Jewish people are the talking heads CNN trots out to support their ideological crusade you're going to come away with a skewed POV. I don't like those people either.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121691So this is all public on his page:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ux8Ehwm.jpg)
Note his comment on this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/8wTy9OO.jpg)
Greetings!
Damn, Mistwell. That is sad, my friend. Don't feel ashamed for being Jewish, Mistwell. There's nothing wrong with being Jewish.
Do not despair, or lose faith. There are many Christians here in America that stand with you, and are your friends.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
From the comments at Tenkar's:
"Andy ActionFebruary 10, 2020 at 2:25 PM
This guy has always been an open and proud bigot.
This comes as no surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.
In the current climate (both in the U.S. and in the old school RPG scene), he has no need or reason to hide.
He is just appealing to his customer base, sadly."
Well, that does it. This guy represents all of us, and we're all Nazis. Time to get fitted for a Klan hood and SS uniform.
Quote from: Brendan;1121694Saddened as well and frustrated.
I get it to some extent. If your only exposure to Jewish people are the talking heads CNN trots out to support their ideological crusade you're going to come away with a skewed POV. I don't like those people either.
Greetings!
Good points, my friend! Hell, if you grow weary of Leftist Jewish talking heads on CNN, tune into the Daily Wire, with Ben Shapiro! Conservative, smart Jewish man. He's fucking brilliant, and funny, too.
I wonder if Bledslaw has always felt this way, or if these attitudes of his are a more recent development? Brendan, what the fuck is a Goyim? It always boggles me how anti-Jewish people somehow think everything, everything wrong in the world is somehow the fault of "The Jews!"
But stand by, my friend. The LEFT here in America and in Europe, is deeply anti-Jewish. Just listen to our own sweet Muslim fucking congresswomen, Talib, Imal, whatever the fuck. "The Squad" as our President Trump calls them. I used to hear the sweet Liberals join hands with the Muslims in college, having their rallies and protests, and screaming about how evil America was, and how evil Israel is. They increasingly hate Jews, and want nothing but violence and death. They are shameful, evil, and disgusting, Brendan. And the Liberals talk bullshit out of their mouth's when they speak about love, and "tolerance." Yeah, well, for all the Jews that vote liberal in this country, they should think about who their true friends are, you know? I saw so often in college about how peaceful, and noble, and wonderful Islam is, but Jews and Christians are evil and monstrous. Over and over again, Brendan. All pushed by Muslims, and Liberals.
I hate to say it, but the Liberals would throw Jewish people to the sharks to be eaten, you know?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1121700Greetings!
Good points, my friend! Hell, if you grow weary of Leftist Jewish talking heads on CNN, tune into the Daily Wire, with Ben Shapiro! Conservative, smart Jewish man. He's fucking brilliant, and funny, too.
I wonder if Bledslaw has always felt this way, or if these attitudes of his are a more recent development? Brendan, what the fuck is a Goyim? It always boggles me how anti-Jewish people somehow think everything, everything wrong in the world is somehow the fault of "The Jews!"
But stand by, my friend. The LEFT here in America and in Europe, is deeply anti-Jewish. Just listen to our own sweet Muslim fucking congresswomen, Talib, Imal, whatever the fuck. "The Squad" as our President Trump calls them. I used to hear the sweet Liberals join hands with the Muslims in college, having their rallies and protests, and screaming about how evil America was, and how evil Israel is. They increasingly hate Jews, and want nothing but violence and death. They are shameful, evil, and disgusting, Brendan. And the Liberals talk bullshit out of their mouth's when they speak about love, and "tolerance." Yeah, well, for all the Jews that vote liberal in this country, they should think about who their true friends are, you know? I saw so often in college about how peaceful, and noble, and wonderful Islam is, but Jews and Christians are evil and monstrous. Over and over again, Brendan. All pushed by Muslims, and Liberals.
I hate to say it, but the Liberals would throw Jewish people to the sharks to be eaten, you know?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Indeed. I generally like Shapiro and respect him a lot, although I'm more a libertarian than he is.
Haha. Well, that's the thing with antisemities. If they get a bad sandwich at a restaurant "da joos" did it. There's actually a Jewish equivalent - the paranoid anti-semite finder. If they get served a bad sandwich at a restaurant they're convinced the chef must be a NAZI! Just goes to show that people are paranoid and stupid everywhere.
What's a goyim? Technically we all are. Goyim means something like "People of a/ the nations".
The Torah uses two words to refer to groups of people: Am, which is like a family or "a people", and Goy which means something like "a nation" but not necessarily blood related. In the Torah Israel is sometimes referred to as a goy (a nation) and sometimes as an am (a people), and other groups of non-Jews are sometimes referred to as "nations" and sometimes as "peoples", but frequently the Torah refers to the Jews as being sent out among "the nations" (Goyim) to serve as a n example and spread God's word (the Torah). Religious Jews read the Torah... well... religiously, and so this word "Goyim" entered common Jewish discourse as an indicator for a member of these "nations", aka, a non-Jew.
Now, I'm not going to pretend that no Jew ever used it in a pejorative or exaspirated tone, but the word itself is not insulting and Jews themselves don't think of it that way. It does however sound a little dismissive and the usage is somewhat archaic. I don't remember anyone in my family or synagogue using the word unless they were pretty old. Generally most modern Jews prefer the euphasim "Gentiles" to refer to non-Jews, when they need to make the distinction at all. Many Jews are also in "mixed marriages" so the distinction between Jew and non Jew doesn't make sense anymore. My wife's family, for example, are Christian. My mother's mother was Sicilian Catholic.
(I'm personally fond of what my Lebanese-descended father in law writes on survey forms when they inquire as to his race: "American" - but I digress)
Antisemites however have seized upon "goyim" as a term of distinction. They like to imagine that Jews are always thinking about non-Jews as some kind of "other", talking about them and trying to control them. It's a classic case of Freudian projection.
Regarding the left throwing the Jewish people to the wolves - not only would they, they have, and they are. Look up the attacks on Jews in NY and on college campuses. And like any group, our biggest struggles are with ourselves but Jews are waking up. My dad is a great example. A life-long Dem he voted Trump in 2016 and most certainly will again this year.
Quote from: Brendan;1121687Brad likes to do this sometimes.
You know I'm Jewish, right..? Wtf do I care if some old idiot is a racist or whatever, it has nothing to do with products he most likely had zero influence in creating.
Further, I thought Goodman or Frog God owned all the actual rights to their stuff, or was that simply republishing?
Quote from: Brad;1121715You know I'm Jewish, right..? Wtf do I care if some old idiot is a racist or whatever, it has nothing to do with products he most likely had zero influence in creating.
Further, I thought Goodman or Frog God owned all the actual rights to their stuff, or was that simply republishing?
I did not, but I was referring to jumping into conversations to tell people that the conversation is dumb or boring or pointless. I get it. I've had the impulse myself, but it is kinda silly when you stand back to look at it. If a topic is stupid or silly, just ignore it.
I am not including the stuff where he is a 9/11 Truther and an Anti-vaccinations guy. But this?
(https://i.imgur.com/mMGuqIj.jpg)
Quote from: Brad;1121715You know I'm Jewish, right..? Wtf do I care if some old idiot is a racist or whatever, it has nothing to do with products he most likely had zero influence in creating.
Further, I thought Goodman or Frog God owned all the actual rights to their stuff, or was that simply republishing?
To be clear, I am not calling for some sort of boycott (I don't do that sort of thing - the art isn't the artist).
I am more like damn, this sucks. Who can I talk to that would understand why it sucks to see an RPG creator you like turn out to be a dickhead like this? Oh yeah, the guys at theRPGsite!
If you're not feeling it, OK cool. I can see why you think this is not germane enough to RPGs.
Quote from: Brendan;1121716I did not, but I was referring to jumping into conversations to tell people that the conversation is dumb or boring or pointless. I get it. I've had the impulse myself, but it is kinda silly when you stand back to look at it. If a topic is stupid or silly, just ignore it.
Fair enough.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121722To be clear, I am not calling for some sort of boycott (I don't do that sort of thing - the art isn't the artist).
I am more like damn, this sucks. Who can I talk to that would understand why it sucks to see an RPG creator you like turn out to be a dickhead like this? Oh yeah, the guys at theRPGsite!
If you're not feeling, OK cool.
After that last screenshot, I'm wondering if that dude just went full potato.
How old is Rob 2.0?
Some of the stuff hes spouting I read about way the hell back in the 70s and apparently it goes at least back to Roosevelt.
Bledsaw I was an RPG industry legend. Did Bledsaw II create anything worthwhile? I only know him for the Kickstarter screwup where he accidentally let Bledsaw III run off with all the money...
Quote from: Brad;1121715You know I'm Jewish, right..? Wtf do I care if some old idiot is a racist or whatever, it has nothing to do with products he most likely had zero influence in creating.
Further, I thought Goodman or Frog God owned all the actual rights to their stuff, or was that simply republishing?
Mmmmm, no. Everything is pretty much in
Bob Junior's hands at this point. Now his son,
Bob Bledsaw III, is the one that did the failed
Kickstarter which still hasn't delivered all the goods by the way, and Bob Jr. recently (last year) took it over and is working on getting everything cleaned up. He gave permission to
Rob Conley to complete and deliver the full color
Wilderlands maps, and they are using the proceeds of that as well as the
Goodman Games republication of certain adventure modules to finish and fulfill the
Kickstarter, however the whole project is barely inching along.
As far as I know neither
Frog God nor
Goodman have the rights to any of the Wilderlands IP, however they received permission to use the original modules to create new adventures for 5e D&D. I also know that two of Bob's other brothers who live down in Kentucky or Tennessee are a bit unhappy about how they have handled their fathers legacy. I miss
Bob Sr. He was a great guy, a great gamer, and very business focused, he would have had everything taken care of a long time ago!
When I was with
Bob Sr. We never discussed race, religion, or politics, except for the race, religion, and politics of the
Wilderlands.
Quote from: Brendan;1121713Indeed. I generally like Shapiro and respect him a lot, although I'm more a libertarian than he is.
Haha. Well, that's the thing with antisemities. If they get a bad sandwich at a restaurant "da joos" did it. There's actually a Jewish equivalent - the paranoid anti-semite finder. If they get served a bad sandwich at a restaurant they're convinced the chef must be a NAZI! Just goes to show that people are paranoid and stupid everywhere.
What's a goyim? Technically we all are. Goyim means something like "People of a/ the nations".
The Torah uses two words to refer to groups of people: Am, which is like a family or "a people", and Goy which means something like "a nation" but not necessarily blood related. In the Torah Israel is sometimes referred to as a goy (a nation) and sometimes as an am (a people), and other groups of non-Jews are sometimes referred to as "nations" and sometimes as "peoples", but frequently the Torah refers to the Jews as being sent out among "the nations" (Goyim) to serve as a n example and spread God's word (the Torah). Religious Jews read the Torah... well... religiously, and so this word "Goyim" entered common Jewish discourse as an indicator for a member of these "nations", aka, a non-Jew.
Now, I'm not going to pretend that no Jew ever used it in a pejorative or exaspirated tone, but the word itself is not insulting and Jews themselves don't think of it that way. It does however sound a little dismissive and the usage is somewhat archaic. I don't remember anyone in my family or synagogue using the word unless they were pretty old. Generally most modern Jews prefer the euphasim "Gentiles" to refer to non-Jews, when they need to make the distinction at all. Many Jews are also in "mixed marriages" so the distinction between Jew and non Jew doesn't make sense anymore. My wife's family, for example, are Christian. My mother's mother was Sicilian Catholic.
(I'm personally fond of what my Lebanese-descended father in law writes on survey forms when they inquire as to his race: "American" - but I digress)
Antisemites however have seized upon "goyim" as a term of distinction. They like to imagine that Jews are always thinking about non-Jews as some kind of "other", talking about them and trying to control them. It's a classic case of Freudian projection.
Regarding the left throwing the Jewish people to the wolves - not only would they, they have, and they are. Look up the attacks on Jews in NY and on college campuses. And like any group, our biggest struggles are with ourselves but Jews are waking up. My dad is a great example. A life-long Dem he voted Trump in 2016 and most certainly will again this year.
Greetings!
Very interesting historical and theological stuff, Brendan. I love it. Shapiro is fucking great! *laughs* I love how he shreds these whiny fucking SJW's! *Howling* Just picture it, Brendan. I drink some good coffee, light up a fine cigar, and watch videos of Ben Shapiro stomping all over SJW's. It's time very well spent! On occasion, it definitely brightens my day! I also highly recommend Daily Wire Backstage, where Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Andrew Klavan, and Jeremy gather around a table, drinking, smoking cigars, and talking politics. They have this nice blonde girl who is like a host, where she talks to fans and fields questions from subscribers. She's funny as hell, too.
Indeed, Jews and Christians have been mixing for a long time here in America. Jews, Irish, Italians, among others. Beautiful. Have you noticed that Alan Dershowitcz, long-standing Liberal Lawyer, came out in support of President Trump, and blasted the Liberals for wanting to Impeach the President? That got my fucking attention. He's pretty damn sharp, and known as a Constitutional expert.
All these fucking anti-Jewish bastards seem oblivious to the fact that lots of Jewish boys bled in the sandy beaches fighting against the Japanese in the Pacific, and many also spilled their blood alongside their fellow Christian and whatever American citizens in fighting and rolling back the Nazis in Europe! Jumping into the fire over Nazi Europe, to protect America, defeat Nazi Germany, and liberate a broken and crushed Europe from slavery. Nah, we can't think about that. That's an uncomfortable truth.:D
Sad fucking idiots.
Oh yeah, you're right. They are throwing Jews to the fucking wolves right now. It's fucking insane. If the Liberals get into power, my friend, you know what you can expect, right? I'm stoked your dad voted for Trump! Fucking awesome, my friend! More winning! More making America great again! It's especially sweet to see the Liberals literally break down into sobbing hysterics!:D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Mistwell;1121718I am not including the stuff where he is a 9/11 Truther and an Anti-vaccinations guy. But this?
(https://i.imgur.com/mMGuqIj.jpg)
Greetings!
Wow, Mistwell. Eye-Opening stuff here to show us. Sad, Bledsaw seems like a real loon!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: S'mon;1121731Bledsaw I was an RPG industry legend. Did Bledsaw II create anything worthwhile? I only know him for the Kickstarter screwup where he accidentally let Bledsaw III run off with all the money...
Wait? What? What is this? Clone Wars? How many are there?
Quote from: Omega;1121754Wait? What? What is this? Clone Wars? How many are there?
Three by the name of
Robert Bledsaw. The original
Robert "Bob" E. Bledsaw the co-founder of Judges Guild with Bill Owen, then his son
Robert E. Bledsaw II, and
Robert Bledsaw II also had a son,
Bob E. Bledsaw III, who a lot of people call Bob Bledsaw jr. now that there are only two Bobs, but for me Bob Jr, was always
Bob Bledsaw II, who currently is heir and manages the
Judges Guild IP now that Bob Sr. is gone. Bob Bledsaw II has two brothers that I know of, Bruce, and I think Walter, and uh.. he had a sister as well that departed long before he did. Jim is Bob The II's uncle and Brother to the original Bob sr. You see him in the Facebook posts linked here dissing on his nephew, Bob II. The original Bob Sr had one more brother as well, Bill, and three sisters too, Judith, Kathy, and Debi. In addition to
Bob III[/I, Bob Sr. had six other surviving grandchildren, as well as seven nieces, and nephews.
Bob Bledsaw III originally did the very late Kickstarter and Bob II, took it over, ...I think just a couple of years back now, and is trying to sort everything out.
...since you asked.
Woah... Looks like some changes are afoot.
https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/
Quote from: Brendan;1121713(snip) (I'm personally fond of what my Lebanese-descended father in law writes on survey forms when they inquire as to his race: "American" - but I digress) (snip)
I once had to write my race on a form for a dentist in Singapore. I wrote "human". I didn't think a dentist needed to know anything other than that.
I had a look at BBII's Facebook page last night. It looks like he's basically a shut-in, he says he leaves the house less than once a month now. I suspect Social Media Derangement Syndrome, in this case of the Alt-Right/anti-Semitic kind rather than the SJW/cultural-Marxist kind.
(I don't really understand why they hate on Eisenhower. AFAICS Eisenhower did a great job minimising US casualties, winning the war and taking most of Western Europe while letting the USSR take the strain, and was a good President. He even warned about the military-industrial complex takeover that we see in the Deep State fight against Trump. I suppose they just don't like that he beat their beloved Nazis.)
Quote from: S'mon;1121772I had a look at BBII's Facebook page last night. It looks like he's basically a shut-in, he says he leaves the house less than once a month now. I suspect Social Media Derangement Syndrome, in this case of the Alt-Right/anti-Semitic kind rather than the SJW/cultural-Marxist kind.
(I don't really understand why they hate on Eisenhower. AFAICS Eisenhower did a great job minimising US casualties, winning the war and taking most of Western Europe while letting the USSR take the strain, and was a good President. He even warned about the military-industrial complex takeover that we see in the Deep State fight against Trump. I suppose they just don't like that he beat their beloved Nazis.)
Greetings!
Good points, my friend! Social Media Derangement Syndrome! Very interesting, and appropriate.
President Harry Truman was "A Jew"? Well, that's news to me, but even if he was, so what? And this loon's attempted belittlement of President Eisenhower? Geesus. All of these anti-Semitic troglodytes conveniently demonize Jewish people, and make outlandish or just entirely erroneous claims that seemingly anyone and everyone famous or otherwise notable, they claim in hushed tones or hysterics, were really...
Jews! Of course, all of whoever are or were Jews...but them. They somehow are the untainted saviors...of something. All these fucking anti-Semitic nut-jobs sound like they have been smoking crystal meth.
In many parts of Orange County, California, as well as Los Angeles, California, it is not an uncommon sight at public bus stops, or out in front of seedy convenience stores, to find filthy, ragged looking nut-jobs, screaming in public, talking loudly to themselves in gibberish, loudly proclaiming all manner of nonsense. These people are usually homeless, filthy, and entirely burned out from a lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse. In addition to being fucking nuts. Raving, shrill anti-Semites remind me of these kinds of people.
That all would be bad enough, but then you add the added goodness of them often being in love with their beloved Nazis. These people just keep digging an abyss of shit for themselves. So sad.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: S'mon;1121772I had a look at BBII's Facebook page last night. It looks like he's basically a shut-in, he says he leaves the house less than once a month now. I suspect Social Media Derangement Syndrome, in this case of the Alt-Right/anti-Semitic kind rather than the SJW/cultural-Marxist kind.
(I don't really understand why they hate on Eisenhower. AFAICS Eisenhower did a great job minimising US casualties, winning the war and taking most of Western Europe while letting the USSR take the strain, and was a good President. He even warned about the military-industrial complex takeover that we see in the Deep State fight against Trump. I suppose they just don't like that he beat their beloved Nazis.)
guy needs a jewish gf, nothing cures ant-semitism quite like a plucky pale skinned dark haired fortune teller with sexual appetite of a 16th century pirate. yowsa. in my experience though she won't take you to temple, apparently rabbis chastize jewish girls for courting a christian unless you are willing to convert. still, a jewish girlfriend goes a long way toward understanding the utterly mundane rather than conspiratorial jewish idiosyncracies. while insular and nepotistic to a certain degree they are far from unified and conspiring, their conspiracies rarely go beyond the nearest other jews they compete with for status within their own group. we are just not worthy opponents i guess.
Quote from: Brad;1121684Because this seems EXTREMELY unrelated to gaming. Might as well have just made a thread called, "Old man figures out how to rant on the Internet."
Um, orcs are a metaphor for blacks, so Southern music is orcish music and...
I got nothin'.
Edit: I have this! Could this be common ground?!
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/more-nazi-sympathizers-in-the-rolegaming-world-judges-guild.858904/#post-23088743
Did his brain backfire a neuron or two. One moment being normal the next not just doing a 180 on one personal beliefs an 720. What the hell I mean it's like the super liberal uncle suddenly being a raging anti-semite and racist overnight. I mean fuck I can't it's I don't know. That or what I come to call social chameleons their personal beliefs were something they always believed in, yet kept hidden.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1121784Edit: I have this! Could this be common ground?!
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/more-nazi-sympathizers-in-the-rolegaming-world-judges-guild.858904/#post-23088743
To TBP utter horror and disbelief we probably do have more common ground than either side wants to admit.
That one Bledsaw is a racist twat doesn't mean JG needs to be burned to the ground. He may be somewhat synonymous with JG now, but this certainly seems like the sort of revelation that SJW witch hunters like to turn into a fest of making you feel bad for enjoying what JG has historically produced.
Too bad about the Judge's guild stuff, but I totally get it. It's a sad melt-down.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121718I am not including the stuff where he is a 9/11 Truther and an Anti-vaccinations guy. But this?
(https://i.imgur.com/mMGuqIj.jpg)
This is pretty classic anti-Semitic conspiracy theory stuff. I would just say on the topic, this isn't like when someone says something a little politically incorrect or outside the mainstream and it gets painted as the worst possible thing it could be. This strikes me as solidly racist.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1121811I would just say on the topic, this isn't like when someone says something a little politically incorrect or outside the mainstream and it gets painted as the worst possible thing it could be.
Indeed. :D
Quote from: sureshot;1121788Did his brain backfire a neuron or two. One moment being normal the next not just doing a 180 on one personal beliefs an 720. What the hell I mean it's like the super liberal uncle suddenly being a raging anti-semite and racist overnight. I mean fuck I can't it's I don't know. That or what I come to call social chameleons their personal beliefs were something they always believed in, yet kept hidden.
To TBP utter horror and disbelief we probably do have more common ground than either side wants to admit.
Haha that's funny. TBP having anything in common with us. They actually have a real hater to hate on for a change, ...and I just posted for the first time in about a decade over there,
...because of course, there are some idiots there are dissing on Bob Sr.One cuck there tossed his digital copy of
Tegel Manor until it was pointed out that 1) Bob Sr, not Bob Jr. originally published it, and 2) Jennel Jaquays was in the original JG and she never would have worked for Bob Jr. or Bob III knowing their political preferences.
So Robert Bledsaw II is an antisemitic loon.
It's always sad when one chooses to live a life of hatred and delusions. Still, such a life is its own punishment, I suppose.
What truly saddens me is that Bledsaw II, by publicly proclaiming his twisted beliefs, has (probably) buried any hope in the future revision or creation of old and new Judges Guild products. Who would be willing to be associated with such a man ?
Such a nauseating idiot :-( !
Did Bledsaw write Rahowa? *shakes magic 8ball*
Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1121817What truly saddens me is that Bledsaw II, by publicly proclaiming his twisted beliefs, has (probably) buried any hope in the future revision or creation of old and new Judges Guild products. Who would be willing to be associated with such a man ?
Agreed, this was one of my first thoughts on reading the OP. Judges Guild was already facing some significant struggles (to say the least), Bob II's commentary doesn't help things at all. I'm also very sad to see Bat in the Attic's Majestic Wilderlands line derailed by this.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1121784Edit: I have this! Could this be common ground?!
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/more-nazi-sympathizers-in-the-rolegaming-world-judges-guild.858904/#post-23088743
No. I dislike Bledsaw's tweets, but he's free to be as stupid as he likes. I'm not going to jump on some RPG.net SJW pitchfork mob.
Quote from: Lynn;1121806That one Bledsaw is a racist twat doesn't mean JG needs to be burned to the ground. He may be somewhat synonymous with JG now, but this certainly seems like the sort of revelation that SJW witch hunters like to turn into a fest of making you feel bad for enjoying what JG has historically produced.
Exactly. This incident has already got some comments on Tenkar's about how this one idiot is representative of the whole hobby.
I'm sure it won't end there.
Quote from: Slipshot762;1121781while insular and nepotistic to a certain degree they are far from unified and conspiring, their conspiracies rarely go beyond the nearest other jews they compete with for status within their own group. we are just not worthy opponents i guess.
I've said before I feel very left out if there are conspiracy meetings I am not being invited to. And as far as traditions go, disagreeing with each other is a very Jewish perspective. Ask two Jewish people their opinion about a controversial topic and you're likely to get three differing opinions. The idea that as a people we could even agree on a unified position to form a conspiracy around, about just about anything, seems preposterous to me. Nor do we have "leadership" really, as obviously that's not something we could agree on.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121827I've said before I feel very left out if there are conspiracy meetings I am not being invited to. And as far as traditions go, disagreeing with each other is a very Jewish perspective. Ask two Jewish people their opinion about a controversial topic and you're likely to get three differing opinions. The idea that as a people we could even agree on a unified position to form a conspiracy aroud, about just about anything, seems preposterous to me. Nor do we have "leadership" really, as obviously that's not something we could agree on.
Arguing is our traditional sport.
FWIW, DTRPG has taken down all JG material, except for the Necromancer Games bundle and Pegasus bundle.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?page=1
I dont know if it is because of the Jews but Bob is not wrong that the Media hates Trump.
Seems like a storm in a tea cup to me.
Quote from: dkabq;1121838FWIW, DTRPG has taken down all JG material, except for the Necromancer Games bundle and Pegasus bundle.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?page=1
Because pulling Caverns of Thracia will surely insulate us from the Nazi cooties of Jennell Jaquays.
Fucking morons.
Quote from: dkabq;1121838FWIW, DTRPG has taken down all JG material, except for the Necromancer Games bundle and Pegasus bundle.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?page=1
Damn, that's a real shame. I was afraid something like that would happen.
Quote from: GameDaddy;11218152) Jennel Jaquays was in the original JG and she never would have worked for Bob Jr. or Bob III knowing their political preferences.
No, that was Paul Jaquays who died, and was later reincarnated as a woman in 2011.
Quote from: dkabq;1121838FWIW, DTRPG has taken down all JG material, except for the Necromancer Games bundle and Pegasus bundle.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?page=1
Cancel culture does not exist.
Cancel culture does not exist.
Cancel culture does not exist.
Quote from: dkabq;1121838FWIW, DTRPG has taken down all JG material, except for the Necromancer Games bundle and Pegasus bundle.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?page=1
Oops...spoke too soon. Now no JG material is available, and JG does not appear in the Publishers category.
Quote from: dkabq;1121850Oops...spoke too soon. Now no JG material is available, and JG does not appear in the Publishers category.
I had to do a quick check on my Library...
Dark Tower
Dark Tower.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-09 00:00:00
The Book of Treasure Maps I
The Book of Treasure Maps I.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-09 00:00:00
The Book of Treasure Maps II
The Book of Treasure Maps II.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-09 00:00:00
Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor
Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-09 00:00:00
Witches Court Marshes
Witches Court Marshes.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-08 00:00:00
Glory Hole Dwarven Mine
Glory Hole Dwarven Mine.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2013-09-17 11:24:53
Tegel Manor
Tegel Manor.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-09 00:00:00
Pirates of Hagrost
Pirates of Hagrost.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-08 00:00:00
Shield Maidens of Sea Rune
Shield Maidens of Sea Rune.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-08 00:00:00
The Mines of Custalcon
The Mines of Custalcon.pdf
6Download
7Dropbox
Judges Guild 2004-08-09 00:00:00*whew* :D
Quote from: Shasarak;1121839I dont know if it is because of the Jews but Bob is not wrong that the Media hates Trump.
Seems like a storm in a tea cup to me.
It's not. He's said some very antisemitic things. Things which have nothing to do with Trump or the media. Would you like to see more of them, so you can see this is not a storm in a tea cup sort of thing? I am not exaggerating - there is some really bad stuff in there, and this is not about being a Conservative or a Trump Supporter - stuff which goes back before Trump in fact.
Someone needs to walk me through the chain of reasoning from "Bob Bledsaw II is an anti-Semitic loon" to "all Judges Guild material must be pulled from commercial distribution." Why does the one make the other a moral imperative?
For once we have a subject line that understates the case. "Sprints"? More like used rocket skates.
Quote from: Haffrung;1121857Someone needs to walk me through the chain of reasoning from "Bob Bledsaw II is an anti-Semitic loon" to "all Judges Guild material must be pulled from commercial distribution." Why does the one make the other a moral imperative?
There was more than anti-semitic posts in Bob III's twitter feeds, and Bob II insulted his own uncle. Bob II, is currently the Judges Guild IP holder,
...and no gamer wants to support a neo-nazi earning any money at all to continue their public tirade of hate, rascism, and religious repression. Gamers can be very particular about how they spend their money, and helping other people hate more, is not something decent gamers want to support. That is the moral imperative. On this particular subject, me and Mistwell completely agree, like 100%.
Weirdly, the RPGnet discussion on this is so far much more sensible than the EN World thread, which is full of stuff like this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/companies-cut-ties-with-judges-guild-after-owners-racist-posts.670222/post-7915816)
and this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/companies-cut-ties-with-judges-guild-after-owners-racist-posts.670222/post-7915841). Maybe because Celebrim has been riling up the SJWs again on ENW, whereas on RPGnet there's no disagreement.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1121860There was more than anti-semitic posts in Bob III's twitter feeds, and Bob II insulted his own uncle. Bob II, is currently the Judges Guild IP holder, ...and no gamer wants to support a neo-nazi earning any money at all to continue their public tirade of hate, rascism, and religious repression. Gamers can be very particular about how they spend their money, and helping other people hate more, is not something decent gamers want to support. That is the moral imperative. On this particular subject, me and Mistwell completely agree, like 100%.
That's fine. But by removing the product, DriveThru have removed anyone's choice to boycott the product or not.
And there are more people involved than just Bledsaw. Anyone who has written a product for Judge's Guild must now be punished for Bledsaw's tweets.
Quote from: Haffrung;1121857Someone needs to walk me through the chain of reasoning from "Bob Bledsaw II is an anti-Semitic loon" to "all Judges Guild material must be pulled from commercial distribution." Why does the one make the other a moral imperative?
There needs to be a reason? SJWs never need a reason other than hate. Fabricated hate is the best.
Pull down all the material because the current owner is being a total idiot. Of course that never gets applied to any number of SJW product till that person is "proven" to be the villain too.
Though to be fair. They may just have not felt good about putting money in the pocket of someone acting poorly. But again, its a selectively used double edged sword.
Question then becomes what happens to all this material and will the fallout spill over to anything else JG has touched?
Quote from: Haffrung;1121857Someone needs to walk me through the chain of reasoning from "Bob Bledsaw II is an anti-Semitic loon" to "all Judges Guild material must be pulled from commercial distribution." Why does the one make the other a moral imperative?
It doesn't. I wish they hadn't done that.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121863And there are more people involved than just Bledsaw. Anyone who has written a product for Judge's Guild must now be punished for Bledsaw's tweets.
The one person who is effected is James Mishler of Adventure Game Publishing. He has already posted about the issue (http://adventuresingaming2.blogspot.com/2020/02/regarding-judges-guild.html). Goodman, Frog God Games, and myself all still have our listings up. I am not sure what deal Goodman Games has. Frog God Games contract stipulates that all royalties must go to fulfilling the CSIO Kickstarter. The remaining person is Chris Bernhardt who wrote City State of the Sea King and he doesn't sell on DriveThruRPG.
My royalties have been waived since November of 2017 in lieu of payment for the final nine maps of the CSIO Kickstarter. If Mr. Bledsaw decide to remove the waiver then I will no longer be selling either my Revised Editions, or Majestic Wilderlands material. Prior to my post I expected the waiver to be removed sometime in late 2020 or early 2021 as the revenues were approaching what I paid for the first nine maps.
Just my luck. I bought the Judges Guild Deluxe #1 from Goodman Games this morning. I guess we'll never see #2 now that the internet mobs will demand that JG be forever removed from history.
You have to be a total idiot in this day and age to be on social media without being anonymous. I'm just surprised he hasn't claimed he was hacked. That seems to be the go to defense for aging boomers.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1121860Bob II, is currently the Judges Guild IP holder, ...and no gamer wants to support a neo-nazi earning any money at all to continue their public tirade of hate, rascism, and religious repression. Gamers can be very particular about how they spend their money, and helping other people hate more, is not something decent gamers want to support.
I suspect that most gamers would actually want the ability to actually decide for themselves when to be morally outraged.
Quote from: dkabq;1121850Oops...spoke too soon. Now no JG material is available, and JG does not appear in the Publishers category.
Well, fuck. There was some stuff I had not gotten around to buying. There's always time, you tell yourself. Then some guy goes and runs his mouth off and that's the end.
Not that there aren't other ways to get it, and...yeah, I don't want to funnel money to helping him.
Estar, I hope this whole thing doesn't sour you on the setting. You do good work, man.
Quote from: Omega;1121865There needs to be a reason? SJWs never need a reason other than hate. Fabricated hate is the best.
On Saturday the 8th, I saw the post and that was that. The only question was the exact way I would handle it. Sunday I called Mr. Bledsaw. While the conversation was cordial, I informed him I could no longer do any future business with Judges Guild. I also told him that due to the nature of the issue I am ethically obligated to tell the other licensees of my decision. By Monday I finished my statement and posted it on my blog. This was after I informed the other licensees and it went public.
As for it being a fabrication, it was stated by him to me that his post was accurate in the phone conversation we had. It was more than disconcerting as conversation was cordial and remained cordial afterward. Mistwell's account is consistent with mine.
Quote from: estar;1121867The one person who is effected is James Mishler of Adventure Game Publishing. He has already posted about the issue (http://adventuresingaming2.blogspot.com/2020/02/regarding-judges-guild.html). Goodman, Frog God Games, and myself all still have our listings up. I am not sure what deal Goodman Games has. Frog God Games contract stipulates that all royalties must go to fulfilling the CSIO Kickstarter. The remaining person is Chris Bernhardt who wrote City State of the Sea King and he doesn't sell on DriveThruRPG.
My royalties have been waived since November of 2017 in lieu of payment for the final nine maps of the CSIO Kickstarter. If Mr. Bledsaw decide to remove the waiver then I will no longer be selling either my Revised Editions, or Majestic Wilderlands material. Prior to my post I expected the waiver to be removed sometime in late 2020 or early 2021 as the revenues were approaching what I paid for the first nine maps.
Incorrect. I previously noted that Caverns of Thracia was written by Janelle (Then Paul) Jaquay for Judge's Guild, and was taken down.
I do not know if Jaquay was paid any residuals for the sales, but at the very least, as a well regarded adventure module, it's now been scrubbed from one of the most popular PDF stores. I don't even know if it was available in any other medium.
Quote from: S'mon;1121862Weirdly, the RPGnet discussion on this is so far much more sensible than the EN World thread, which is full of stuff like this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/companies-cut-ties-with-judges-guild-after-owners-racist-posts.670222/post-7915816)
and this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/companies-cut-ties-with-judges-guild-after-owners-racist-posts.670222/post-7915841). Maybe because Celebrim has been riling up the SJWs again on ENW, whereas on RPGnet there's no disagreement.
Well if EN World is getting upset about it.
Quote from: Thornhammer;1121872Estar, I hope this whole thing doesn't sour you on the setting. You do good work, man.
Appreciate the compliment. I am not sour on the setting but for now it is impossible for me to make new content for it. I do have plenty of original material to work on. A lot of my Majestic Wilderlands content can have the serial numbers filed off and reused. I was going to do that before getting an unexpected opportunity to obtain a IP license.
Also my license agreement states that I retain the rights to the original material I create. I can't republish it with JG IP mixed up in it but I can reuse what original to me. The other half of that deal is that Judges Guild also gets to use the material as well.
Quote from: Shasarak;1121877Well if EN World is getting upset about it.
I get this is your shtick, but it would probably be wise to read more of what he said before you go further down that road. And that's not a threat by the way. Knowing your prior posts on other topics, I don't think you're going to appreciate your off-hand approach once you do end up reading it all.
See for example this one (https://imgur.com/a/eFU4cZE) (which I think was never posted to this thread). Note the "holohoax" comment, by which he appears to mean the holocaust was a hoax. Or this one (https://i.imgur.com/mMGuqIj.jpg). This is a guy who thinks 9/11 was an inside job done by the evil Jewish Conspiracy out of Israel, and that vaccines kill people and are party of a similar conspiracy. This isn't just "conservative opinions".
Quote from: goblinslayer;1121870Just my luck. I bought the Judges Guild Deluxe #1 from Goodman Games this morning. I guess we'll never see #2 now that the internet mobs will demand that JG be forever removed from history.
You have to be a total idiot in this day and age to be on social media without being anonymous. I'm just surprised he hasn't claimed he was hacked. That seems to be the go to defense for aging boomers.
You forget that true racists aren't ashamed of their racism, they are proud of it. Hence he won't be making any apology or excuses.
I have never bought a single JG product and when I found out abt this I was confusing them with the other one, the one for 5e. Sucks for the people that were publishing through them and serves as a reminder of why you need to vet your business associates or better yet self publish.
As for DT pulling everything down, I would have done the same.
Quote from: estar;1121873As for it being a fabrication, it was stated by him to me that his post was accurate in the phone conversation we had. It was more than disconcerting as conversation was cordial and remained cordial afterward. Mistwell's account is consistent with mine.
Nah, was not referring to the incident itself but to the fact that the nuts out there can and probably will use it to go after others or try to get people removed just for being vaugly associated with this. If even that.
Quote from: Omega;1121881Nah, was not referring to the incident itself but to the fact that the nuts out there can and probably will use it to go after others or try to get people removed just for being vaugly associated with this. If even that.
And to paint us all as the same. Just wait till tomorrow at best for the headlines:
"Evil Hat's approach is correct but all the other publishers need to do the same"
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121874Incorrect. I previously noted that Caverns of Thracia was written by Janelle (Then Paul) Jaquay for Judge's Guild, and was taken down.
I do not know if Jaquay was paid any residuals for the sales, but at the very least, as a well regarded adventure module, it's now been scrubbed from one of the most popular PDF stores. I don't even know if it was available in any other medium.
For work prior to 2000 if the JG contract specified it, the author got their IP back. What was left after was 100% owned by Judges Guild including the Jaquays modules from what I was told. The two Quicklink products reverted to Judges Guild. It is with Necromancer Games material that it gets murky. The way it was left that Judges Guild sold all NG works on their storefront but did not have the right make additional work in that line.
Everybody else since Necromancer Games is a current publisher except for AGP. My license specifies that Judges Guild gets to use all my work after I cease publication. However I also had a provision added that I get the right to keep on using my own original IP. For example most of the material in Scourge of the Demon Wolf.
I know some of this because in the early 2000s, Bob Bledsaw Senior had to through through his spreadsheet and paperwork to come up with a list of things that we, the informal JG Design Team, were allow to work on and use.
Bledsaw 2: Jackass Boogaloo!
I've lived in LA and NYC. Yes, there are a lot of Jewish people in the media. Yes, many of them have positions of power. To deny that would be nonsense, but the "Jewsmedia" hating Trump for invoking Jesus is also total nonsense. It represents a fundamental ignorance of what's happening in 2020's MSM.
These days it's hip to be anti-Christian and many Christians feel excluded from the culture. However, in my experience, there are FAR more atheists (many vocal anti-Christians) involved in the media than there are Jews. Also for decades, I've worked with many Jewish people and many Israelis and I've rarely encountered anti-Christian attitudes. On the flip side, I've heard LOTS of nasty ass anti-Christian bullshit from SJWs....and the MSM is drowning in those fucks.
As for slavery leading to rock & roll? Yes, that is true.
The Law of Unintended Consequences continues to reign supreme.
But "looking on the bright side of slavery" is cringey as fuck. Yes, Muhammad Ali said he thanked God that his grandaddy got on that boat. Yes, American blacks in the modern day descended from slaves have advantages and opportunities that don't exist anywhere in Africa.
Yes, it is true the American South has an amazing music tradition BECAUSE of the blending of different cultures who heard each other's music and created whole new genres of music never before imagined.
"Cultural appropriation" continues to be absolutely awesome.
Still, Bledsaw Jr's post was cringey as fuck, and he should be absolutely ashamed for disgracing his father's WONDERFUL legacy of creating Judges Guild.
Oh, if any worthless retards want to screech "the OSR is waaaaycist", tell'em to go play in traffic and make the world a better place.
Quote from: Brendan;1121713(I'm personally fond of what my Lebanese-descended father in law writes on survey forms when they inquire as to his race: "American" - but I digress).
HELL YEAH!!! That's awesome!!!I'm going to adopt that too. Wish I thought of that. Please extend my kudos and thanks!!
Race = American! Fuck yeah!! Love that on SO many levels!
Quote from: Brad;1121715You know I'm Jewish, right..?
No I didn't, but that explains everything!!!! :D
Thanks Brad, now I've gotta imagine Keira Knightly eating latkes and pastrami on rye!
Yeah baby, hot mounds of pastrami on dark, dark oh so so soft Russian rye!
Quote from: S'mon;1121772I had a look at BBII's Facebook page last night. It looks like he's basically a shut-in, he says he leaves the house less than once a month now. I suspect Social Media Derangement Syndrome, in this case of the Alt-Right/anti-Semitic kind rather than the SJW/cultural-Marxist kind.
Exactly. Excellent point.
Social Media Derangement Syndrome isn't for SJWs only. Plenty of absolute idiocy on the far right of the spectrum.
Quote from: DocJones;1121844Cancel culture does not exist.
LOL.
Quote from: Haffrung;1121857Someone needs to walk me through the chain of reasoning from "Bob Bledsaw II is an anti-Semitic loon" to "all Judges Guild material must be pulled from commercial distribution." Why does the one make the other a moral imperative?
Pick one:
A) DriveThru panders to the Outrage Mob.
B) DriveThru revels in virtue signalling and this is a Cancel Culture bullseye.
C) DriveThru is proactively defending itself to protect its profits.
D) DriveThru doesn't want an anti-Semitic Loon publisher using their platform to earn money out of legitimate disgust.
E) Any combo of the Above
Quote from: Mistwell;1121879.See for example this one (https://imgur.com/a/eFU4cZE) (which I think was never posted to this thread). Note the "holohoax" comment, by which he appears to mean the holocaust was a hoax. Or this one (https://i.imgur.com/mMGuqIj.jpg). This is a guy who thinks 9/11 was an inside job done by the evil Jewish Conspiracy out of Israel, and that vaccines kill people and are party of a similar conspiracy. This isn't just "conservative opinions".
I'm happy to have RATIONAL discussions regarding Israel and the US support of Israel (and my own pro-Israel with limits stance), but holy fuck, the Bledsaw 2 & 3 spoogenuggets are shitty idiots. Fuck that noise.
But it's a free country and I support the free speech of those whose words I disagree with. However, there are consequences for being an A-grade asshat.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1121880I have never bought a single JG product
Back in the 70s, Judges Guild under the original Bob Bledsaw produced many good, some great products. If you have an interest in 70s RPGing and you have a chance to get any of their books via eBay, they are worth a look.
Quote from: Shasarak;1121839I dont know if it is because of the Jews but Bob is not wrong that the Media hates Trump.
Seems like a storm in a tea cup to me.
So you've dug deeper right? You see the awful stuff everyone is referring to here, right? It would be great if you could adjust your comment in light of this information.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1121887Back in the 70s, Judges Guild under the original Bob Bledsaw produced many good, some great products. If you have an interest in 70s RPGing and you have a chance to get any of their books via eBay, they are worth a look.
Thanks for the recommendation, I might do that, but putting money in the wallet of a racist? NOPE.
Quote from: Jager Fury;1121888So you've dug deeper right? You see the awful stuff everyone is referring to here, right? It would be great if you could adjust your comment in light of this information.
I didn't know we had a new mod.
Quote from: estar;1121878Appreciate the compliment. I am not sour on the setting but for now it is impossible for me to make new content for it. I do have plenty of original material to work on. A lot of my Majestic Wilderlands content can have the serial numbers filed off and reused. I was going to do that before getting an unexpected opportunity to obtain a IP license.
Also my license agreement states that I retain the rights to the original material I create. I can't republish it with JG IP mixed up in it but I can reuse what original to me. The other half of that deal is that Judges Guild also gets to use the material as well.
Just wait a couple of years and buy the whole IP from him for pocket change.
https://youtu.be/vsa1ZvzFgvU
Clearly that guy has issues.
Quote from: estar;1121867The one person who is effected is James Mishler of Adventure Game Publishing. He has already posted about the issue (http://adventuresingaming2.blogspot.com/2020/02/regarding-judges-guild.html). Goodman, Frog God Games, and myself all still have our listings up. I am not sure what deal Goodman Games has. Frog God Games contract stipulates that all royalties must go to fulfilling the CSIO Kickstarter. The remaining person is Chris Bernhardt who wrote City State of the Sea King and he doesn't sell on DriveThruRPG.
My royalties have been waived since November of 2017 in lieu of payment for the final nine maps of the CSIO Kickstarter. If Mr. Bledsaw decide to remove the waiver then I will no longer be selling either my Revised Editions, or Majestic Wilderlands material. Prior to my post I expected the waiver to be removed sometime in late 2020 or early 2021 as the revenues were approaching what I paid for the first nine maps.
Rob, I was glad to see you condemn him. Given how much I know you love the Wilderlands I realize that must have been painful.
What a complete piece of garbage that guy is. I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby; now watch them conveniently ignore the fact that basically EVERYONE of note in the OSR is condemning him.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913What a complete piece of garbage that guy is. I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby; now watch them conveniently ignore the fact that basically EVERYONE of note in the OSR is condemning him.
I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?
This is an incorrect presumption, of course. I have spent the last couple of days very carefully separating the art from the current art IP owner, and have posted for the first time in probably a decade both over on Enworld and RPG.net to defend Bob Bledsaw Sr's and the rest of the original staff at Judges Guild, and their reputation. So I'm not sure what you are referring to or implying here...
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?
Lovecraft has been dead for 100 years, Bledsaw II is apparently just some jackass who never did anything but fuck up his father's IP. Miles and miles apart.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?
The OSR?. like, did the OSR put a statement somewhere? Please tell me where I can read more official statements of this cohesive and well-defined group.
Quote from: Brad;1121943Lovecraft has been dead for 100 years, Bledsaw II is apparently just some jackass who never did anything but fuck up his father's IP. Miles and miles apart.
I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.
If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913Rob, I was glad to see you condemn him. Given how much I know you love the Wilderlands I realize that must have been painful.
Thanks and I appreciate your sentiments. It was difficult emotionally after the conservation with Mr. Bledsaw.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913What a complete piece of garbage that guy is. I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby; now watch them conveniently ignore the fact that basically EVERYONE of note in the OSR is condemning him.
I would prefer that you condemn specific actions by specific individuals when it comes to this.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121962I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.
If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.
I think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913What a complete piece of garbage that guy is. I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby; now watch them conveniently ignore the fact that basically EVERYONE of note in the OSR is condemning him.
The SJW's have already decided all you OSR guys (edit: Everyone NOT SJW) are "Nazis". Is it a shame this guy is ruining the IP? Sure. But welcome to reality. SJW's in this industry created people like him. He sounds like he got activated and went "the other way" - but he's still in the same shithole tier as the SJW's. I recognize Robert and others have vested interests in the IP... but be wary of trying to "distance" yourself too much because the more you try, the more detraction you'll get.
You made elf-games. Those elf-games are now in the hands of an asshole. Walk away, otherwise you're playing the Identity Politics Game which unless you're vested in thatfight - you won't win, as they have nothing to lose, and you have *nothing* to gain. That's their game. The best case scenario is to give a polite "fuck off" to all parties concerned about the identity-shit and move on. Sucks, I know... otherwise...
As Identitarians say: You may not care about Identity, but it cares about you.
Quote from: Brad;1121966I think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?
Yeah. I was fine with that argument. If someone wants to not give the owner of an IP money, that's their business.
My problem is that when DTRPG pulled
all of the Judge's Guild products over this. It's not like the modules themselves contain his tweets. They were written by other people, long before all this.
I don't think it's DTRPG's place to decide for individual consumers whether they want to support Bledsaw, boycott Bledsaw, or purchase it despite of Bledsaw.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121969Yeah. I was fine with that argument. If someone wants to not give the owner of an IP money, that's their business.
My problem is that when DTRPG pulled all of the Judge's Guild products over this. It's not like the modules themselves contain his tweets. They were written by other people, long before all this.
I don't think it's DTRPG's place to decide for individual consumers whether they want to support Bledsaw, boycott Bledsaw, or purchase it despite of Bledsaw.
Hence my first reply in this thread...after it became apparent what was going on, was ANYONE on this board surprised at that reaction? Again, irrelevant nonsense, but on the Internet it's of paramount importance.
Quote from: BradI think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121969Yeah. I was fine with that argument. If someone wants to not give the owner of an IP money, that's their business.
My problem is that when DTRPG pulled all of the Judge's Guild products over this. It's not like the modules themselves contain his tweets. They were written by other people, long before all this.
I don't think it's DTRPG's place to decide for individual consumers whether they want to support Bledsaw, boycott Bledsaw, or purchase it despite of Bledsaw.
Regardless of who originally wrote the module 40+ years ago, my impression is that now Bledsaw II is the one who gets the money if those modules are purchased. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.)
As for the choice -- DTRPG isn't a public service. It's a privately owned enterprise, and the owners get to choose what they want to carry and thus share profits with. An author has a right to free speech, but they don't have a right that Barnes & Noble has to carry their book. To the extent that DTRPG is a monopoly, I might support regulation to break up such monopolies -- but not to take control away from the owners.
Quote from: jhkim;1121976As for the choice -- DTRPG isn't a public service. It's a privately owned enterprise, and the owners get to choose what they want to carry and thus share profits with. An author has a right to free speech, but they don't have a right that Barnes & Noble has to carry their book. To the extent that DTRPG is a monopoly, I might support regulation to break up such monopolies -- but not to take control away from the owners.
I was tempted to address this point in my tweet, it's so old and predictable.
Yes, DTRPG can decide to assosicate with whomever they want. They could remove all the WTOC and TSR content because WOTC are all annoying social justice assholes. I don't think that's a good decision either, for the same reason.
I still don't think it's a good decision from a business standpoint. Lots of consumer goods are produced at the cost of slave wage labor and conflict minerals (https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/conflict-minerals-responsible-mining/) . I don't see Amazon yanking popular cell phones because the money goes to people who profit off of misery. And that's a hell of a lot more heinous (IMO) than some crank spouting racist tweets.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121962I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.
If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.
As others have said. Its the fact that someone doing something bad is making money off those product if they continue to be up for sale. If Michael Tolkein said something racist and was getting all the money from sales of the books and other product then we'd have the same situation possibly. Some would take down the books from their shops. But all any of Tolkein's descendants are getting now is maybee royalties? Most of the IP money goes to the Foundation doesnt it?
This is a case where the owner of a company is causing trouble. People are well within their rights to take that material down from their venues till things get sorted out. If ever.
But as said earlier. This is a very fickle double edged sword and X will get a pass because its profitable or the current darling, and Y will not because it is an acceptable target or cant fight back.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121981I don't see Amazon yanking popular cell phones because the money goes to people who profit off of misery. And that's a hell of a lot more heinous (IMO) than some crank spouting racist tweets.
SJWs can only react to things they know about, which is anything they're told to destroy by their masters. Do you really think any of them have any idea about that sort of stuff? They're the same morons complaining about a "livable wage" so they can afford cable tv and Starbucks in the morning while wearing clothes made by children in SE Asia working for a dollar a day. Just useful idiots.
Also, related to your link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/Child-miners-aged-four-living-hell-Earth.html
Quote from: Jager Fury;1121888So you've dug deeper right? You see the awful stuff everyone is referring to here, right? It would be great if you could adjust your comment in light of this information.
I looked at the stuff in the OP and it looks like a big so what.
This is one of those very shitty situations where you have to "burn the village to save the village."
Yes, this guy didn't personally write every product, but unfortunately he gets a cut of every profit that comes from them. He pissed all over his father's legacy and the works of others.
We keep bringing up Tolkein but let's use a more modern example. Imagine J.K. Rowling dies and has a Son who comes out in favor of Pedophilia. He gets caught with Child Pornography and blurts all over Social media how he has no regrets and is looking forward to his next child lover...
Now imagine he also gets a royalty for every Harry Potter related item that's sold.
Doesn't matter that he didn't create Harry Potter, doesn't matter other people "expanded" the universe with Videogames and other things. He's still going to profit off of it. You bet your ass all of it would be torn down, and removed from purchase from every store out there, and every streaming service.
Our reality of course is a much smaller example than that... but it's also similar. Our industry is smaller, but still needs to protect itself. Doesn't matter if he had nothing to do with Judge's Guild products... He still profits from it, and he's come out as a racist douche bag. Scorched Earth is the only response you can have sadly. It just goes to show how selfish of a fuck this guy really is, by not even considering the consequences of his actions and how it would effect others.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1121860There was more than anti-semitic posts in Bob III's twitter feeds, and Bob II insulted his own uncle. Bob II, is currently the Judges Guild IP holder, ...and no gamer wants to support a neo-nazi earning any money at all to continue their public tirade of hate, rascism, and religious repression. Gamers can be very particular about how they spend their money, and helping other people hate more, is not something decent gamers want to support. That is the moral imperative. On this particular subject, me and Mistwell completely agree, like 100%.
That may be a moral imperative for people who feel some kind of emotional connection and affinity for people they buy RPG products from. But I'm not one of those people. I no more care who writes my RPG books than I care who manufacturers the laundry detergent I use. I no more regard my patronage of RPG creators as 'support' than I regard buying Tide at the grocery stores as support for [searches google] Procter & Gamble. And if some honcho at Procter & Gamble is revealed to be an unsavoury person, it won't affect my purchases at all. Because I still prefer Tide to Gain.
And I don't see how buying JG products would help Bledsaw II create more hate. Anyone who can pay for internet can post whatever ugly nonsense they want all day long. There's no correlation between money in his pocket and the amount the hate he spews.
Since the moral imperative around creators and content varies person to person, why should
I be denied the right to purchase products? Why should
your moral outrage go further than a personal boycott, and make products inaccessible to
me?
Quote from: Haffrung;1121988.
Since the moral imperative around creators and content varies person to person, why should I be denied the right to purchase products? Why should your moral outrage go further than a personal boycott, and make products accessible to me?
Because it's not about you. One Book Shelf does not want to be associated with him, because it could further damage their brand. This is one of the rare cases where it really is cut and dry. This isn't a James Raggi situation putting out edgy content, or Zack S and all his own internet drama nonsense. This is a confirmed case of, no this dude is an actual racist. He proudly believes in these things, we have examples of it. Most companies don't want to associate their brand with people like that, it's bad for Business, and I don't fault Drive thru one percent for deciding to cut ties at this point.
You demanding they sell the product of an actual confirmed and known Racist are being the selfish one here, because you want their Business to potentially lose money and damage their reputation in the long run to cater to your own needs. I'm sure Judge's Guild has their own website where you can purchase their products directly if you still want them. But at the end of the day, supporting the free market also means the freedom of the market to decide it doesn't want to associate itself with a particular product.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987We keep bringing up Tolkein but let's use a more modern example. Imagine J.K. Rowling dies and has a Son
You don't even have to go that far. JK Rowling is a TERF (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2019/12/19/jk-rowling-comes-out-as-a-terf/#556815a85d70), and for some, that makes her worse than Hitler.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1121880I have never bought a single JG product and when I found out abt this I was confusing them with the other one, the one for 5e. Sucks for the people that were publishing through them and serves as a reminder of why you need to vet your business associates or better yet self publish.
As for DT pulling everything down, I would have done the same.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987Doesn't matter if he had nothing to do with Judge's Guild products... He still profits from it, and he's come out as a racist douche bag. Scorched Earth is the only response you can have sadly. It just goes to show how selfish of a fuck this guy really is, by not even considering the consequences of his actions and how it would effect others.
Quote from: Haffrung;1121988That may be a moral imperative for people who feel some kind of emotional connection and affinity for people they buy RPG products from. But I'm not one of those people. I no more care who writes my RPG books than I care who manufacturers the laundry detergent I use. I no more regard my patronage of RPG creators as 'support' than I regard buying Tide at the grocery stores as support for [searches google] Procter & Gamble.
Personally, I'm closer to Haffrung's position here. I still wouldn't think much of buying Judge's Guild products, though it would cross my mind. There are a handful of creators that rise to the level of things that I would boycott, but unless Bledsaw II is doing more than just tweeting his odious views, this doesn't cross into that territory for me.
That said, I've got nothing against GeekyBugle or Orphan81 choosing differently. That's their decision.
Quote from: Brad;1121966I think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?
Somewhat amusingly, legally Lovecraft's estate probably belongs to his Jewish wife, since he never finalized the divorce.
But somehow Robert Howard's estate (who died before HPL) belongs to a Swedish game company, Paradox. Despite him being far more racist than HPL, we never hear anything about that...
Quote from: Shasarak;1121986I looked at the stuff in the OP and it looks like a big so what.
If only people had taken the time to respond to you repeatedly with additional information so you could see it goes way beyond the OP.
Oh, wait...they did.
Quote from: JeremyR;1121998But somehow Robert Howard's estate (who died before HPL) belongs to a Swedish game company, Paradox. Despite him being far more racist than HPL, we never hear anything about that...
Oh, got me interested enough to google it....
QuoteHoward's viewpoint was also affected and softened by his correspondence with H. P. Lovecraft -- whose own beliefs about race were a lot stronger
Not according to Wikipedia?! No idea who's right here, just indicating current regular source of information indicates otherwise. So even if you're correct, it's going to be hard to get that message out. Maybe Paradox has better control of it's branding. Is there a way to check if Paradox has edited the Wikipedia page?
Quote from: Haffrung;1121988That may be a moral imperative for people who feel some kind of emotional connection and affinity for people they buy RPG products from. But I'm not one of those people. I no more care who writes my RPG books than I care who manufacturers the laundry detergent I use. I no more regard my patronage of RPG creators as 'support' than I regard buying Tide at the grocery stores as support for [searches google] Procter & Gamble. And if some honcho at Procter & Gamble is revealed to be an unsavoury person, it won't affect my purchases at all. Because I still prefer Tide to Gain.
And I don't see how buying JG products would help Bledsaw II create more hate. Anyone who can pay for internet can post whatever ugly nonsense they want all day long. There's no correlation between money in his pocket and the amount the hate he spews.
Since the moral imperative around creators and content varies person to person, why should I be denied the right to purchase products? Why should your moral outrage go further than a personal boycott, and make products accessible to me?
No, it's more about voting with your dollars, just as I wouldn't buy shit from Varg, or any SJW the same applies here, I'm not putting money in the wallet of a fucker whose views are not only antithetical to mine but are a very real danger to me as a non-white or my family/friends who fall in that same category.
As someone else already pointed to you I'm sure they have their own website where you can buy their stuff.
Quote from: JeremyR;1121998Somewhat amusingly, legally Lovecraft's estate probably belongs to his Jewish wife, since he never finalized the divorce.
But somehow Robert Howard's estate (who died before HPL) belongs to a Swedish game company, Paradox. Despite him being far more racist than HPL, we never hear anything about that...
You must have missed the discussions in this very site about REH and his racism. And all over social media too, where it's brought up constantly.
Quote from: tenbones;1121967The SJW's have already decided all you OSR guys (edit: Everyone NOT SJW) are "Nazis". Is it a shame this guy is ruining the IP? Sure. But welcome to reality. SJW's in this industry created people like him. He sounds like he got activated and went "the other way" - but he's still in the same shithole tier as the SJW's. I recognize Robert and others have vested interests in the IP... but be wary of trying to "distance" yourself too much because the more you try, the more detraction you'll get.
You made elf-games. Those elf-games are now in the hands of an asshole. Walk away, otherwise you're playing the Identity Politics Game which unless you're vested in thatfight - you won't win, as they have nothing to lose, and you have *nothing* to gain. That's their game. The best case scenario is to give a polite "fuck off" to all parties concerned about the identity-shit and move on. Sucks, I know... otherwise...
As Identitarians say: You may not care about Identity, but it cares about you.
I loathe the SJWs, but the blame for Bledsaw II & III spouting racist, anti-Semitic BS lands squarely on the Bledsaws alone. Identity politics may be poison, but it's an individual people who choose to drink whatever flavor they pick up. And while I think all flavors are vile, I think some are particularly more so than others. The SJWs didn't force the Bledsaws to adopt the racist thoughts they have. If the Bledsaws ever try to come back from this (a near impossible task in my opinion), they have to own their actions, and not try to blame it on the SJWs.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987Doesn't matter that he didn't create Harry Potter, doesn't matter other people "expanded" the universe with Videogames and other things. He's still going to profit off of it. You bet your ass all of it would be torn down, and removed from purchase from every store out there, and every streaming service.
Sadly, were that scenario to actually happen odds are more likely that the stuff would stay up because its just too popular. Hence my comment prior on this ever being a fickle double edged sword. I've seen this in action way too often both indirectly and directly.
Quote from: Omega;1122018Sadly, were that scenario to actually happen odds are more likely that the stuff would stay up because its just too popular. Hence my comment prior on this ever being a fickle double edged sword. I've seen this in action way too often both indirectly and directly.
Yep. I can't see Warner Brothers ditching the Harry Potter franchise, no matter how sleazy her hypothetical future son may be. At most, maybe they'd put out a disclaimer of some sort.
Hell, I don't think people would stop consuming the product.
Quote from: JeremyR;1121998But somehow Robert Howard's estate (who died before HPL) belongs to a Swedish game company, Paradox. Despite him being far more racist than HPL, we never hear anything about that...
There is. But its been overall low key as Howards views in some cases seem to have stemmed from personal bad experiences I have been told while researching for a game project. I did not at the time get any particulars other than he apparently had a distinct dislike of either certain tribes of Native Americans, or an overall dislike?
Quote from: ponta1010;1122007Oh, got me interested enough to google it....
Not according to Wikipedia?! No idea who's right here, just indicating current regular source of information indicates otherwise. So even if you're correct, it's going to be hard to get that message out. Maybe Paradox has better control of it's branding. Is there a way to check if Paradox has edited the Wikipedia page?
Wikipedia is about as reliable as asking a SJW what racism means.
Wayy the hell back while researching I was shown part of one letter from Howard where he has some pretty harsh things to say about Native Americans. But was only part and I never got to see the rest for context so have no clue what he was on about. But yeah he did indeed have some strong dislikes.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1122019Yep. I can't see Warner Brothers ditching the Harry Potter franchise, no matter how sleazy her hypothetical future son may be. At most, maybe they'd put out a disclaimer of some sort.
Hell, I don't think people would stop consuming the product.
Weinstein is pretty slimy and you don't see the movie studios pulling all the movies with his name on it from the shelves.
Quote from: goblinslayer;1122028Weinstein is pretty slimy and you don't see the movie studios pulling all the movies with his name on it from the shelves.
Weinstein also has "distance" from the product. He's the faceless director, hell most people probably didn't even know who he was until the scandals came out. Even then, there's a difference between "I pressured starlets to have sex with me for good roles in my movies" and is a blatant pedophile talking about it on social media.
Just look at how fast Kevin Spacey was unpersoned for the idea he could be a pedophile. Netflix pulled his series, and nobody will hire him.
Quote from: Orphan81;1122030Weinstein also has "distance" from the product. He's the faceless director, hell most people probably didn't even know who he was until the scandals came out. Even then, there's a difference between "I pressured starlets to have sex with me for good roles in my movies" and is a blatant pedophile talking about it on social media.
Just look at how fast Kevin Spacey was unpersoned for the idea he could be a pedophile. Netflix pulled his series, and nobody will hire him.
Kevin Spacey also wasn't a part of a franchise as big as Harry Potter.
Quote from: Brendan;1121713Regarding the left throwing the Jewish people to the wolves - not only would they, they have, and they are. Look up the attacks on Jews in NY and on college campuses.
Obviously the product of internalized white supremacy.
Quote from: S'mon;1121772It looks like he's basically a shut-in, he says he leaves the house less than once a month now. I suspect Social Media Derangement Syndrome, in this case of the Alt-Right/anti-Semitic kind rather than the SJW/cultural-Marxist kind.
We really should be treating this sort of thing as mental illness at this point, but we can't because too many people have adopted it as part of their identity.
Quote from: Slipshot762;1121781guy needs a jewish gf, nothing cures ant-semitism quite like a plucky pale skinned dark haired fortune teller with sexual appetite of a 16th century pirate.
Didn't work for Lovecraft.
Quote from: Mistwell;1121827disagreeing with each other is a very Jewish perspective.
Quote from: Brendan;1121834Arguing is our traditional sport.
Is it?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121874I previously noted that Caverns of Thracia was written by Janelle (Then Paul) Jaquay for Judge's Guild, and was taken down.
So double irony for also pulling the work of a successful transwoman in the process.
Quote from: S'mon;1121862Weirdly, the RPGnet discussion on this is so far much more sensible than the EN World thread, which is full of stuff like this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/companies-cut-ties-with-judges-guild-after-owners-racist-posts.670222/post-7915816)
and this (https://www.enworld.org/threads/companies-cut-ties-with-judges-guild-after-owners-racist-posts.670222/post-7915841).
"stochastic terrorism"
I miss when words actually meant things.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby;
Actually this is the second one.
Quote from: estar;1121965I would prefer that you condemn specific actions by specific individuals when it comes to this.
As would I.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987Imagine J.K. Rowling dies and has a Son who comes out in favor of Pedophilia. He gets caught with Child Pornography and blurts all over Social media how he has no regrets and is looking forward to his next child lover...
Now imagine he also gets a royalty for every Harry Potter related item that's sold.
Doesn't matter that he didn't create Harry Potter, doesn't matter other people "expanded" the universe with Videogames and other things. He's still going to profit off of it. You bet your ass all of it would be torn down, and removed from purchase from every store out there, and every streaming service.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121991You don't even have to go that far. JK Rowling is a TERF (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2019/12/19/jk-rowling-comes-out-as-a-terf/#556815a85d70), and for some, that makes her worse than Hitler.
And because nothing short of a nuclear warhead is actually capable of cancelling her it is therefore acceptable to throw as much hate at her as you want, because it doesn't do any actual harm.
I hate #SJW logic.
Quote from: Omega;1122020I did not at the time get any particulars other than he apparently had a distinct dislike of either certain tribes of Native Americans, or an overall dislike?
Quote from: Omega;1122021Howard where he has some pretty harsh things to say about Native Americans.
In the meantime the Oneida tribe built a casino based on L. Frank Baum "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" (https://www.yellowbrickroadcasino.com) despite the fact he literally advocated for the wholesale extermination of Native Americans (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Sitting_Bull_editorial). Difference is they don't feel it necessary to call out his racism at every opportunity, cause that would get in the way of getting your money.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1122044"stochastic terrorism"
Stochastic is a term used in science, so obviously using it means you're smart. Ignore the fact that without context it literally just means random.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1122044In the meantime the Oneida tribe built a casino based on L. Frank Baum "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" (https://www.yellowbrickroadcasino.com) despite the fact he literally advocated for the wholesale extermination of Native Americans (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Sitting_Bull_editorial). Difference is they don't feel it necessary to call out his racism at every opportunity, cause that would get in the way of getting your money.
Living well is the best revenge!
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?
For starters, there's a historical context to Lovecraft. He wasn't writing in 2020.
Second, the "art" in question wasn't Bledsaw's, it was his dad's. All accounts of Bledsaw Sr. is that he never stated any anti-semitic comments.
Quote from: estar;1121965Thanks and I appreciate your sentiments. It was difficult emotionally after the conservation with Mr. Bledsaw.
I would prefer that you condemn specific actions by specific individuals when it comes to this.
How about Levi Kornelsen for starters, former RPGsite poster?
He directly claimed that "this was proof the OSR needs to be abandoned" even though it was OSR people who exposed Bledsaw and EVERYONE of note in the OSR who has commented did so to CONDEMN Bledsaw.
There's at least a dozen other twitter posters (mostly the usual suspects) who have said similar things. At least one has claimed that I'm a racist like Bledsaw is. So as usual, this is personal because these assholes make it so.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122056For starters, there's a historical context to Lovecraft. He wasn't writing in 2020.
Second, the "art" in question wasn't Bledsaw's, it was his dad's. All accounts of Bledsaw Sr. is that he never stated any anti-semitic comments.
Bob Sr. never spoke poorly about anyone, around me, nor around James Mishler according to James over on his website, and James spent a lot of time with him in his later years from about 2002 on. That said, I do know of one account of anti-Semitic comments from a credible eyewitness who was a Judges Guild employee back in the 70's where an uncomfortable incident occurred at work that involved Bob Sr.. Like I said over on Enworld and TBP though, I had no idea what his actual race preferences, religion, and politics were, because we never discussed that. We were entirely too busy with discussing the race, religion, and politics of the Wilderlands campaign setting. in our talks about the Wilderlands, I never got any vibes about any specific links to any race or ethnic group beyond the Skandiks are Vikings thing.
In his home game that he played with
Gary Gygax and
Dave Arneson, He was the Overlord (Pirate King) of Tarantis,
Dave Arneson was the first Overlord of the city that eventually became the
City-State of the Imperial Overlord, and
Gary played the Green Emperor of Viridistan, the World Emperor.
Dave Arneson's Dragon Riders were the ancient Orichalans who had come through a portal from Blackmoor into the Valley of the Ancients, they migrated South and West, and they played out the Uttermost War. In their game,
Gary and
Dave ganged up on
Bob, and
Gary's Vasthosts of Viridstan sailed east across the Winedark Sea and besieged ancient Kelnore, and eventually the City-State of Tarantis.
Dave followed suit with his Dragon Riding line of Kings, and sailed his Army East from the CSIO. I remember how pleased Bob was, when he told me that that he managed to break the siege and save
Tarantis by defeating
Dave Arneson in a Naval engagement. This was because
Dave Arneson was
"The Authority" on age of sail type battles, and in almost every naval wargame her ever played, he would be victorious, except for that one time when Bob's Pirate navy from Tarantis, scattered Dave and Gary's Orichalan/Viridian fleet.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122058There's at least a dozen other twitter posters (mostly the usual suspects) who have said similar things. At least one has claimed that I'm a racist like Bledsaw is. So as usual, this is personal because these assholes make it so.
Mmm. Well. same story here for about as long as I can remember I have been deemed at the very least politically incorrect, and that goes all the way back to about 1979 or so. That said, there are some interesting things afoot over at TBP as well as Enworld. In their discussion over there, concerning this thread, the Enworld people are busy bringing up Antifa, and the usual sjw alt-right whingings, and they called for a total boycott on everything JG, which seems very un-EnWorldly, usually over there they just seem unfocused and slightly oversensitive about European and Socialist political issues. Meanwhile over at the TBP, it's like they don't really know what to do now that they actually found a living breathing Neo-nazi anti-Semitic. It's like they are doing therapy sessions over there.
From what I read Lovecraft attitudes did change for the better as he became older and perhaps wiser. Bledsaw the II looks like he just went off the deep end or worse was really that racist and pretended to be the opposite while fooling everyone and anyone. Given how blatant he has been in his posts Drivethrurpg had imo no choice to take his stuff down. With how politically correct our industry has become its like trying to put out an oul refinery fire with napalm. In other worlds say some stupid racist and just generally stupid shit well guess what it has consequences. So I have no sympathy except for BoB Sr.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122064Gary's Vasthosts of Viridstan sailed east across the Winedark Sea and besieged ancient Kelnore,
They were playing 3e D&D Wilderlands? :eek:
rat man, just want to see if this jackass still stands by comment. probably, so he is a fuck. i like to know these things. so you are cool with bob's views. are you an an advocate of these views to?
Quote from: Omega;1122020There is. But its been overall low key as Howards views in some cases seem to have stemmed from personal bad experiences I have been told while researching for a game project. I did not at the time get any particulars other than he apparently had a distinct dislike of either certain tribes of Native Americans, or an overall dislike?
When I went to the REH festival thing last year, there was a French dude whose name escapes me that is like the preeminent researcher on his life. He talked about the whole Indian-hating thing within the context of the western stories REH wrote, and from what I gathered, REH hated Indians in much the same way Cowboys fans hate the Redskins. He actually seemed to romanticize the whole "noble savage" thing.
Quote from: Jager Fury;1122077rat man, just want to see if this jackass still stands by comment. probably, so he is a fuck. i like to know these things. so you are cool with bob's views. are you an an advocate of these views to?
Can you restate that in english, please?
Quote from: S'mon;1122075They were playing 3e D&D Wilderlands? :eek:
In 1975 or early 76? Don't be ridiculous.
I'll quote from the original CSWE for you, and for any other doubters out there...
"The Imperial Guard, entirely mounted on Barded Heavy Horse and wearing Plate and Shield is the elite of the army (although they carry no missile weapons) and embodies the ideal of everything a Viridistani soldier should be. To enter as a recruit one must have proven themselves worthy of battle earn the great honor of being transferred into the Imperial guard. Foreign heroes, hearing of the splendor and glory of the guard (and the high pay and low risk) are often willing to come and join up for a six year term.
The Helms of the elite guard are fashioned to look terrifying. The effect of seeing an entire Throng in formation is often the equivalent of a 'Fright' spell upon non-allied warriors, non-combatants, and animals." CSWE goes on to describe the Throng Lords and barracks for twenty-three Throngs of Cavalry each about five hundred strong, and then goes on the barracks and leaders for Twenty-Six Throngs of Imperial Infantry, including Eight Heavy and Ten Light Infantry Throngs, as well as Eight Throngs of Archers. All of these Throngs made up an Imperial Equithrong (or Vasthost if you prefer), and numbered about twenty-five thousand. CSWE detailed just the Emperors Equithrong (Vasthost) that was stationed in Viridistan.
On page three of the guidebook map of the original City-State of the World Emperor is the chronicles of the History of the City-State of the World Emperor, Otherwise known as Viridistan, The City of Spices, the Immortal City, or simply "The City".
"Far to the East lie the lands of the barbarian Altanians, a red-skinned race which once ruled the whole Padizan Peninsula when the confederated tribes ruled the mainland from Lenap to the great Forest fifty centuries before. The City State of the Invincible Overlord (Dave) has sent tribute to the Immortal City (Gary) once a year since the Bloodless Battle of Barrad in 3788 when three of the Overlord's Vasthosts and the whole of the nearby village of Barrad dropped dead in their tracks due to unknown causes. Further evidence of the Emperors strength came again in 4105 when what has become known as the Blackhart Crag Reminder, when a surprised Emperor archer Equithrong decimated an Overlord Vasthost with its special arrows. Constant minor testing of the Emperors strength (at least until recently) had always been met with more than adequate arrows or sorcery. In the last ten years however, more and more of these "testings" have succeeded, but with no logical pattern to which incidents go unchallenged. And now, again, the Emperor has again outrageously increased the tribute. Spies between the two cities are thick." ...and on page six some additional detail...
"In the last five years the Emperor has doubled the size of his military troops (again at the expense of taxpayers) until he now commands the equivalent of about five Vasthosts. Two battles are under each Padishah in each of the six provinces, two battles that he keeps in Sunwatch and Moontower village, and one that is scattered about in smaller groups. Each battle has a core of at least one Equithrong and five to ten throngs of professional soldiers,. Archers make up a larger than usual percentage of the Green Emperor's army.
Carbellium, a very rare red metal, lightweight, but extremely hard, mined at the well protected [secret location omitted here]. This strange metal, it has been decreed can only be used for the creation of the Green Emperor's special arrowheads. These special arrows seem almost magically antithetical to iron and steel and will react when shot from a longbow within average shooting range as follows:"Table III: Carbellium Arrowhead Penetrative Powers.
Armor Type -- Effect Assuming Hit
+1 Plate Armor & Shield -- Will pass completely through both and soldier.
+2 Plate armor and +2 Shield -- Will pass through both and will lodge in soldier.
etc. etc.
I realize that you can't help yourself, and insist on making snide comments implying that I'm making this up. I'm not, Bob told me himself, used these terms I used precisely (No one at Necromancer Games made them up, because they already existed at least two decades prior), and Dave Arneson then also confirmed this for me when I asked him about it a couple of years later. I do forgive you though for your impertinence, and know that it was all the drugs, the glowsticks, and those fucked up techno-dance moves using the glo-sticks that they forced you to learn in the London Underground that traumatized you and made you this way. Please,
...just don't try those moves here, mmmkkkay? You'll only end up embarrassing yourself more.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
That isn't an OSR thing. It is a scholarship thing. Real academics separate art from the artist. The ones that cannot are more recent pseudo-scholars that have no emotional self control. History is replete with a-holes, yet a-holes can have significant cultural contributions and society can enjoy and benefit from them, and shouldn't be shamed for doing so. Lovecraft is extremely well documented, much of which by letters he wrote that never were intended for publication. SJWs love him because it doesn't take much work to find something nasty, and he's an old White guy.
Some random thoughts:
I always scratch my head about how some morons still keep talking about "the Jews". For Americans: they helped you win the bloodiest war in history, as they were fleeing massacre. And BTW anti-semitism is one of those convenient things that nobody seems to be able to decide if it is currently more prevalent on the left or right (kinda like pedophilia).
Quote from: Trond;1122096Some random thoughts:
I always scratch my head about how some morons still keep talking about "the Jews". For Americans: they helped you win the bloodiest war in history, as they were fleeing massacre. And BTW anti-semitism is one of those convenient things that nobody seems to be able to decide if it is currently more prevalent on the left or right (kinda like pedophilia).
In the past several years the bulk of the antisemitism I've encountered was on the left. This is only the second one in quite some time that is on the right that I've run up against (though I am sure there is plenty out there on both sides that I do not see). I'd say 10+ years ago I saw it more on the right.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121981I was tempted to address this point in my tweet, it's so old and predictable.
Yes, DTRPG can decide to assosicate with whomever they want. They could remove all the WTOC and TSR content because WOTC are all annoying social justice assholes. I don't think that's a good decision either, for the same reason.
I still don't think it's a good decision from a business standpoint. Lots of consumer goods are produced at the cost of slave wage labor and conflict minerals (https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/conflict-minerals-responsible-mining/) . I don't see Amazon yanking popular cell phones because the money goes to people who profit off of misery. And that's a hell of a lot more heinous (IMO) than some crank spouting racist tweets.
Yeah, but boycotting Apple or Google would be personally inconvenient, thus it won't happen.
It's why they joined the SJW Cult in the first place. These Y and Zers aren't soaked in privilege because they are White, it's because they're Rich. You can easily fix the Rich problem though, but it's inconvenient. Say your Privilege comes from something you have no control over, then Bingo! you have Original Sin. You admit your Privilege and it actually makes you a victim of your own Whiteness. Something that can only be fixed by being Born Again by becoming Woke.
Thus affluent Privileged Whites adopt a religion that excuses all their sins and blames the problem on all the other Whites who aren't Woke, namely lower class Whites who are too busy working two jobs to feed their kids to exercise their supposed privilege.
It's the sickest, most pathetic, Narcissistic, culture I've ever seen.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122058How about Levi Kornelsen for starters, former RPGsite poster?
He directly claimed that "this was proof the OSR needs to be abandoned" even though it was OSR people who exposed Bledsaw and EVERYONE of note in the OSR who has commented did so to CONDEMN Bledsaw.
Pointing out the specifics will highlight the weakness of his argument. However see below.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122058There's at least a dozen other twitter posters (mostly the usual suspects) who have said similar things. At least one has claimed that I'm a racist like Bledsaw is. So as usual, this is personal because these assholes make it so.
While the response I received was overwhelmingly positive it was not 100%. As you and others here know, I have my opinions on issues and not afraid to express them. It is tough to decide which negative comments to answer and which to not. Or even to answer any at all. My approach has been to comment on a limited basis and only when it serves to clarify a point germane to my post.
For example it was unclear from various comments to what I was referring to in the first post so I added a caption directing the reader to look at Mr. Bledsaw's comment not the picture of the President. I also answered a handful of other comments to clarify specifics.
I realize you and have I different styles when it comes to this stuff. It only because of the relationship we had over the years that I even offered an opinion on how to respond. As stated in my post, what I expect is for people to act in accordance with their conscience. While I rather folks focus on specifics, I am not going to argue with a decision to do otherwise. The same with the decision you make.
Quote from: Trond;1122096And BTW anti-semitism is one of those convenient things that nobody seems to be able to decide if it is currently more prevalent on the left or right (kinda like pedophilia).
Its the same with moral outrage and censorship. Each cycle it tends to burn out group A and jump over to infest group B. Or cling like a parasite to whatever group it thinks is the winner or underdog or whatever fucked up criteria for infestation these nuts have today. Flip a coin. Its as good an oracle as any.
Next cycle they might have taken over the right, again. Or some middle. Or whatever.
I'm moving this back to RPG General because it has many examples of Bledsaw's anti-semitism and racism that wasn't just the ones posted by Tenkar or Rob Conley, that people might otherwise not see without registering.
It is interesting that Goodman Games is taking quite a long time in responding to this. I'm guessing that means that a lawyer is involved and they are trying to resolve some deal that they had with JG. If Bledsaw has any sense at all, he should try to sell JG's ip for whatever he can get. Or he could be an asshole and just take his ball and go home like the dude who ran Metagaming did. I do wonder if people would accept any deal going forward as he would still make money off it. Perhaps if they did something where the original authors like Jaquays got the rights to their own products back.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987This is one of those very shitty situations where you have to "burn the village to save the village."
Yes, this guy didn't personally write every product, but unfortunately he gets a cut of every profit that comes from them. He pissed all over his father's legacy and the works of others. ... It just goes to show how selfish of a fuck this guy really is, by not even considering the consequences of his actions and how it would effect others.
Bledsaw deserves everything he's got coming to him. What was he thinking!?
Just an absolute moron. Killing a business in one push of a button... And for what?
Epic idiocy like that reaps its own reward.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987We keep bringing up Tolkein but let's use a more modern example. Imagine J.K. Rowling dies and has a Son who comes out in favor of Pedophilia. He gets caught with Child Pornography and blurts all over Social media how he has no regrets and is looking forward to his next child lover...
Now imagine he also gets a royalty for every Harry Potter related item that's sold.
Doesn't matter that he didn't create Harry Potter, doesn't matter other people "expanded" the universe with Videogames and other things. He's still going to profit off of it. You bet your ass all of it would be torn down, and removed from purchase from every store out there, and every streaming service.
You would think that would be the case; But the continued sales of Marion Zimmer Bradley books indicate otherwise...
After all, people love themselves their Harry Potter.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122065Meanwhile over at the TBP, it's like they don't really know what to do now that they actually found a living breathing Neo-nazi anti-Semitic. It's like they are doing therapy sessions over there.
TBP is an interesting crowd.
You never know what will cause a flame out with them.
Or how strong their reaction will be to any given bit of bad news.
FYI - You will find far more Threads and Posts on TPB bemoaning and lambasting Orson Scott Card for his views on homosexuality than you will about Marion Zimmer Bradley and her pedophilla...
Probably because Bradley is dead and Card isnt. Live meat is allways more tempting than old bones. But old bones make tempting targets because they cant fight back against accusations.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.
How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?
THIS is a fair question. I will have to think about this.
In the case of Evil Hat, my stance was FUCK THEM because they were pissing on HPL and then profiting from his creation.
In the case of Judges Guild, I'm happy to promote the purchase of original JG products from 2nd hand sellers, but Bledsaw 2/3 have proven themselves racist ass-loons. I'm fine with telling racist ass-loons to fuck off, especially as they have created nothing and just profiting off their dead father's work.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121962I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.
If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.
And this is a fair response. There's nothing in the JG products that's akin to the son's views.
Quote from: Orphan81;1121987Imagine J.K. Rowling dies and has a Son who comes out in favor of Pedophilia. He gets caught with Child Pornography and blurts all over Social media how he has no regrets and is looking forward to his next child lover...
Warner Brothers would put out a "we so sorry, he's naughty naughty" statement and keep rocking that tasty Harry Potter cash.
Judges Guild is worth thousands. Harry Potter is worth billions. Billions win.
Quote from: Omega;1121982This is a very fickle double edged sword and X will get a pass because its profitable or the current darling, and Y will not because it is an acceptable target or cant fight back.
Exactly!
Quote from: CRKrueger;1121900Just wait a couple of years and buy the whole IP from him for pocket change.
Let's be honest. The Bledsaw clan has never smartly handled the Judges Guild IP.
Like all badly managed IP, its fate is someone eventually buys it for pennies.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122058How about Levi Kornelsen for starters, former RPGsite poster?
He directly claimed that "this was proof the OSR needs to be abandoned"
I fully agree Levi and the rest of the SJW clowns should IMMEDIATELY abandon the OSR.
They should also boycott air and water. Can't have white supremacy without air and water!!
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122065Meanwhile over at the TBP, it's like they don't really know what to do now that they actually found a living breathing Neo-nazi anti-Semitic.
They could join the Judean People's Front from Life of Brian! That'll show those nasty Bledsaws!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUHk2RSMCS8
Quote from: Omega;1122150Probably because Bradley is dead and Card isnt. Live meat is always more tempting than old bones. But old bones make tempting targets because they cant fight back against accusations.
Maybe... but the same crowd always seems ready to jump on Lovecraft & Howard at the drop of a hat to gleefully point out their early 20th century evil racism.
My opinion; before she was outed as a complete monster MZB was always thought of as one of them. A simple search on TBP can bring up myriad mentions/recommendations for her books because they were seen as feminist/LGBT positive, etc... So they'd all rather just forget she ever existed now.
So while when explicitly mentioned you get the response "yes, evil, bad." You don't get the pile on of haterade you see in other threads when certain other authors are mentioned. In fact it's notable that MZB never really gets mentioned at all, and if she does, the subject gets quickly dropped after the appropriate "Evil, bad.".
And thus the subject is swiftly consigned back into the memory hole where they'd like it to stay.
Whereas you mention something said by Lovecraft, Card, or just about any author that said or wrote anything that could be construed as racist/anti LGBT, and they are all too happy to dig that dead horse up One. More. Time.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122091In 1975 or early 76? Don't be ridiculous...
...I realize that you can't help yourself, and insist on making snide comments implying that I'm making this up. I'm not, Bob told me himself, used these terms I used precisely (No one at Necromancer Games made them up, because they already existed at least two decades prior), and Dave Arneson then also confirmed this for me when I asked him about it a couple of years later. I do forgive you though for your impertinence, and know that it was all the drugs, the glowsticks, and those fucked up techno-dance moves using the glo-sticks that they forced you to learn in the London Underground that traumatized you and made you this way. Please, ...just don't try those moves here, mmmkkkay? You'll only end up embarrassing yourself more.
Please show me the reference to Empire of Kelnore in original/pre-3e Wilderlands. Everything I've read was that only in 3e did they add it in, based solely on 'Frontier Forts of Kelnore'. And that FFK was not explicitly Wilderlands based.
Quote from: Jaeger;1122154Maybe... but the same crowd always seems ready to jump on Lovecraft & Howard at the drop of a hat to gleefully point out their early 20th century evil racism.
My opinion; before she was outed as a complete monster MZB was always thought of as one of them. A simple search on TBP can bring up myriad mentions/recommendations for her books because they were seen as feminist/LGBT positive, etc... So they'd all rather just forget she ever existed now.
So while when explicitly mentioned you get the response "yes, evil, bad." You don't get the pile on of haterade you see in other threads when certain other authors are mentioned. In fact it's notable that MZB never really gets mentioned at all, and if she does, the subject gets quickly dropped after the appropriate "Evil, bad.".
And thus the subject is swiftly consigned back into the memory hole where they'd like it to stay.
Whereas you mention something said by Lovecraft, Card, or just about any author that said or wrote anything that could be construed as racist/anti LGBT, and they are all too happy to dig that dead horse up One. More. Time.
Lovecraft, Howard, Card all have *writing* which conveys the viewpoints that those critics object to.
I don't recall anything in MZB's writing which endorses the various evils she is alleged to have committed in her personal life.
And unlike the current Judge's Guild issue, Orson Scott Card, or the HP thought experiment proposed above, I've seen no indication that the profits of MZB, Lovecraft, or Howard are going to fund people outspokenly against the cultural consensus. It looks like most of the income from MZB's works is going to the Save the Children charity, or to her children who were her direct victims?
(Caveat: I read a bit of MZB as a teen and before the problems came out, but I've read the other 3 as an adult and aware of the objections to them, so I easily could have missed subtexts in MZB or if the problematic themes are only present in some of her works.)
Quote from: Jaeger;1122154Maybe... but the same crowd always seems ready to jump on Lovecraft & Howard at the drop of a hat to gleefully point out their early 20th century evil racism.
My opinion; before she was outed as a complete monster MZB was always thought of as one of them. A simple search on TBP can bring up myriad mentions/recommendations for her books because they were seen as feminist/LGBT positive, etc... So they'd all rather just forget she ever existed now.
So while when explicitly mentioned you get the response "yes, evil, bad." You don't get the pile on of haterade you see in other threads when certain other authors are mentioned. In fact it's notable that MZB never really gets mentioned at all, and if she does, the subject gets quickly dropped after the appropriate "Evil, bad.".
And thus the subject is swiftly consigned back into the memory hole where they'd like it to stay.
Whereas you mention something said by Lovecraft, Card, or just about any author that said or wrote anything that could be construed as racist/anti LGBT, and they are all too happy to dig that dead horse up One. More. Time.
No surprise about MZB as on TBP only men can be evil, racist etc.. as that it was many of them including the mods believe in with their carefully constructed personal narratives. Since MZB is female and goes against the narrative we barerly see anything on sites similar to TBP. If MZB was male you would have damn well seen that athor be given the same HPL treatment over at the TBP.
I'm still wondering what financial incentive or any positive incentive Bladsaw was given to engage in career and company suicide. Either the payoff is high or they just don't give a fuck and their beliefs are more important.
Quote from: S'mon;1122157Please show me the reference to Empire of Kelnore in original/pre-3e Wilderlands. Everything I've read was that only in 3e did they add it in, based solely on 'Frontier Forts of Kelnore'. And that FFK was not explicitly Wilderlands based.
It not mentioned prior to the boxed set. However NG had long talks with Bob Bledsaw Senior which accounted for much of the expanded background material. With rest coming from a merger of elements from the various author's campaign. For example the Ghinorian successor kingdoms was from the my Majestic Wilderlands based the notes I shared in the 2000s.
Although ironically I decided to start with a clean sheet for the sections I wrote. Also note that certain region and locale in my region like the CSIO were written by Clark Peterson from his dicussions with Bob Sr.
Quote from: Mistwell;1122101In the past several years the bulk of the antisemitism I've encountered was on the left. This is only the second one in quite some time that is on the right that I've run up against (though I am sure there is plenty out there on both sides that I do not see). I'd say 10+ years ago I saw it more on the right.
if you train kids to follow the power plus privilege crap and then give them time to stew on jewish success the jealousy will always morph into anti-semitism.
Quote from: estar;1122164It not mentioned prior to the boxed set. However NG had long talks with Bob Bledsaw Senior which accounted for much of the expanded background material. With rest coming from a merger of elements from the various author's campaign. For example the Ghinorian successor kingdoms was from the my Majestic Wilderlands based the notes I shared in the 2000s.
Although ironically I decided to start with a clean sheet for the sections I wrote. Also note that certain region and locale in my region like the CSIO were written by Clark Peterson from his dicussions with Bob Sr.
What do you think of GameDaddy's claims that Arneson Gygax and Bledsaw were all playing a Wilderlands wargame together? The Kelnore reference moved me from somewhat sceptical to very sceptical.
Quote from: S'mon;1122157Please show me the reference to Empire of Kelnore in original/pre-3e Wilderlands. Everything I've read was that only in 3e did they add it in, based solely on 'Frontier Forts of Kelnore'. And that FFK was not explicitly Wilderlands based.
That was one of my first questions for Bob when I met him, and later we discussed it on the Necromancer message boards, and over on 0D&D 74 Proboards, as well as on Dragonsfoot, more than once.
"In the Elder days once stretched the Kingdom of Kelnore for many leagues across the land. To guard its far-flung frontiers, the Kings of Kelnore built a series of forts surrounding the borders. The Kings' master Mason of the time had a great fear of the 'irregular'. And so with his supervision the serfs and peasants labored to make each fort exactly like every other, From these forts, held by companies of professional soldiers, cavalry patrols kept a close watch on the surrounding countryside. For several centuries the armies of Kelnore held the frontiers inviolate against marauding barbarians and hostile powers. In time troops internal dissension broke out and the kingdom was plunged into a civil war. As the Frontier troops were drawn into the struggles, the frontier forts were abandoned one-by-one. With the border undefended and the center in chaos, the kingdom was soon overrun by a horde of tribesmen, indiscriminately pillaging and burning. Several centuries later. the Kingdom of Kelnore is known only from the scrolls of historians and by legends. Yet many of the border forts still exist, some only in tumbled ruins, others occupied by various beings down through the years." When I spoke with Bob, I told him
Frontier Forts of Kelnore was one of my all time favorite supplements. It was published three years before
B2 Keep on the Borderlands, and B2, was Garys TSR version of the FFK, with bells and whistles added from Lake Geneva, of course. When I first started playing D&D though, all I had was the Judges Guild Village and Castle books, and FFK. I would literally make up my homebrew campaign maps using the Judges Guild D&D playing aids to randomly roll up castles, and villages and frontier forts. While I had played Outdoor Ssurvival, and one of the guys in my gaming group owned a copy of Outdoor Survival from Avalon Hill, We never used that. Instead we made our original fantasy campaigns the same way our first GM did, and that was using the Judges Guild campaign hexagon system.
Now our discussion about this went like this.
"Bob, thanks for making Frontier Forts of Kelnore, I always liked it way better than B2, ...because you know, JG did wilderness campaigns commercially, first."Bob:
"Thanks, did you have any questions I can answer about that?"This was in the JG booth by the way in 2003. I was working for him in his booth at a small convention called
PentaCon which is hosted ever year up in Fort Wayne, Indiana every November. As far as I know attendance has never really consistently topped more than 1,500 for that show, but that year I was the dealer coordinator there, and Bob had showed up with James Mishler and the two of them had the very first box of the Necromancer Games d20
Player's Guide to the Wilderlands to sell. I was the very second guy to buy it, right after James Mishler himself, as he opened the box that had been drop shipped directly to the show (and that had arrived a day after the show opened I would add). James was often busy that weekend running Wilderlands games, and Bob as well, and as Dealer Coordinator, I would give Bob breaks from running the booth when it was open, and would sit with him while he was working, and would man the booth when both of them were occupied which happened a couple times during the show. He told me stories of the early days at Judges Guild of course, and what really happened with their license with TSR, but we also discussed the Wilderlands, and the past (forgotten lore) and future of the Wilderlands. This is where I learned about some of the Easter Eggs that Bob had conveniently placed in the various JG supplements, fun stuff like that. This is also where I learned directly from him that Gary, and him, and Dave Arneson had played an entire campaign together, set in the Wilderlands back in 1975-1976.
Anyway, so we were discussing the Frontier Forts of Kelnore, and I asked:
"You know, no one knows where the Kingdom of Kelnore is, because it isn't mentioned in the original book, and there is discussion on the message boards that it was located on the borders of Tarantis, is that true?" he said
"Yes, that is where I originally put it in my campaign. The forts are located along lines close to, but not exactly along where the borders of the two provinces of Tarantis currently exist. Kelnore was an ancient Kingdom that existed before Tarantis, and fell long before the first Kings of Tarantis rose. Tarantis itself rose from the ashes of the ruins of the ancient Kelnorian Capital. The Frontier Forts protected Kelnore from the very numerous and hostile nomadic wilderness tribesmen, the dervishes, and the cavemen." I got visions of
"The 13th Warrior" when he told me this. Of course, at the time, this gave me all kinds of ideas for putting some new really interesting dungeons beneath Tarantis, and in the areas surrounding Tarantis as well. With the Necromancer Games
Wilderlands Boxed set, the whole ancient kingdom was renamed
Ghinor, (and this was Robs' idea, I believe) and I just put all that down to Bob's penchant for providing one set of lore to the public, while privately keeping a second set of history and lore that doesn't exactly match the public narrative for his personal games. In the old days you could tell if someone really had been in one of your gaming groups, if they happened to mention some lore, event, or history that happened in game, that wasn't in any published book or setting. Then you knew they had really been there, or at least spoken to someone from your inner circle.
In my campaign I always placed the ancient
Ghinorian Kingdom south near
Tula and the border with the
Demon Lands, because the center bottom map has the
Ghinorian Highlands clearly labeled on it. I asked Bob about that too, and he said Ghinor was very large and covered several maps at one time.
This is part of the mystique and wonder of the original game, that is not present in the modern commercial versions, with one exception, so far as I know, and that is Ed Greenwood's
Forgotten Realms. Conflicting lore, written into the setting... on purpose.
Quote from: Jaeger;1122154Maybe... but the same crowd always seems ready to jump on Lovecraft & Howard at the drop of a hat to gleefully point out their early 20th century evil racism.
My opinion; before she was outed as a complete monster MZB was always thought of as one of them. A simple search on TBP can bring up myriad mentions/recommendations for her books because they were seen as feminist/LGBT positive, etc... So they'd all rather just forget she ever existed now.
So while when explicitly mentioned you get the response "yes, evil, bad." You don't get the pile on of haterade you see in other threads when certain other authors are mentioned. In fact it's notable that MZB never really gets mentioned at all, and if she does, the subject gets quickly dropped after the appropriate "Evil, bad.".
And thus the subject is swiftly consigned back into the memory hole where they'd like it to stay.
Whereas you mention something said by Lovecraft, Card, or just about any author that said or wrote anything that could be construed as racist/anti LGBT, and they are all too happy to dig that dead horse up One. More. Time.
I suspect the other reason Lovecraft and others gets hell and Bradly and others do not is...
Because the ones getting attacked are male and the ones not so much are female. Odds are the latest blow up over Rowling will die down soon, if it hasnt allready.
Lovecraft and Howard get more flack because they were vocal about their particular dislikes. In private. But of course the hate mongers had to dredge up private mail as damning proof. And of course its allways out of context of the larger picture.
Quote from: Omega;1122179I suspect the other reason Lovecraft and others gets hell and Bradly and others do not is...
Because the ones getting attacked are male and the ones not so much are female. Odds are the latest blow up over Rowling will die down soon, if it hasnt allready.
Lovecraft and Howard get more flack because they were vocal about their particular dislikes. In private. But of course the hate mongers had to dredge up private mail as damning proof. And of course its allways out of context of the larger picture.
That and REH & HPL fans are mostly male, plus the loons have a few years trying to normalize pedophilia.
One key fact that I think some are missing is that this does not seem to be an instance of social pressure leading to publishers pulling titles.
Rather publishers looked at what Bledsaw wrote / posted, and reports from reputable sources (thanks Rob) about what he said verbally in support of his position, and decided that they simply did not want to do business with him any longer.
Every person has the right to make this decision when they feel the line has been crossed, and as the OP stated, Bledsaw flew right past it. This is not a case of virtue signaling, like Evil Hat, while still rent seeking (sorta) on the original author's IP.
One could argue that some publishers are only doing this because they fear a potential "cancel culture" backlash, and that's probably partially true for some, but for most this appears to be a genuine issue of conscience. I sincerely hope that Bledsaw sells his father's IP, either now or in the near future, and someone is able to publish it again untainted by his rampant insanity.
Quote from: Brendan;1122182One key fact that I think some are missing is that this does not seem to be an instance of social pressure leading to publishers pulling titles.
Rather publishers looked at what Bledsaw wrote / posted, and reports from reputable sources (thanks Rob) about what he said verbally in support of his position, and decided that they simply did not want to do business with him any longer.
Every person has the right to make this decision when they feel the line has been crossed, and as the OP stated, Bledsaw flew right past it. This is not a case of virtue signaling, like Evil Hat, while still rent seeking (sorta) on the original author's IP.
One thing I think you are missing is that One Book Shelf has a track record of bending the knee to social media pressure.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?33091-OneBookShelf-Easier-Censorship-Button-(Or-Social-Justice-Button-)
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40179-We-need-alternatives-to-DTRPG-(please-create-one)
In that context, I have no idea if their motives are geuninely driven by consience or something else.
Greetings!
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a pedophile? Where is that been substantiated?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: S'mon;1122173What do you think of GameDaddy's claims that Arneson Gygax and Bledsaw were all playing a Wilderlands wargame together? The Kelnore reference moved me from somewhat sceptical to very sceptical.
I apologize I am not my usual self in talking about and debating the history of the hobby. I will say that from working on the boxed set that Bob had a lot more in his campaign than what got printed. That it changed over time and thus conflicting details get passed around.
As for the timing, Kelly's Hawk & Moor V, and Bill Owens' Judges Guild History are the two best references. This Save or Die podcast (http://saveordie.info/?p=388) was referenced in Bill's book as having an account of his work with First Fantasy Campaign. So if there is a personal anecdote about Dave Arneson it would be there. Note it was in the summer of 76 prior to Gencon when Bob and Bill went to TSR and met with Dave Arneson and TSR to secure a license.
I find that that anecdotal accounts including those of Gygax and Arneson are rarely 100% accurate or inaccurate. What you have to do is a read bunch of them and then a picture emerges of what happened and when. Better still when there are zines, newsletters, articles, or notes that serve as a definitive skeleton on which to hang events.
There was some question as to whether this was some isolated incident or more widespread.
I happened to take some screenshots others didn't, and didn't have anywhere else to put them. So I hope it's OK if I put them here for others to see. If not, please delete:
(https://i.imgur.com/FVmoRlT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vguzKFg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Lz9jVN2.jpg)
There was some question as to whether this was some isolated incident or more widespread.
I happened to take some screenshots others didn't, and didn't have anywhere else to put them. So I hope it's OK if I put them here for others to see. If not, please delete:
(https://i.imgur.com/FVmoRlT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vguzKFg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Lz9jVN2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qSkBevb.jpg)
Quote from: SHARK;1122189Greetings!
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a pedophile? Where is that been substantiated?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Here's a link to one of the original articles about it:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/27/sff-community-marion-zimmer-bradley-daughter-accuses-abuse (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/27/sff-community-marion-zimmer-bradley-daughter-accuses-abuse)
It's a pretty terrible thing.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1122186One thing I think you are missing is that One Book Shelf has a track record of bending the knee to social media pressure.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?33091-OneBookShelf-Easier-Censorship-Button-(Or-Social-Justice-Button-)
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40179-We-need-alternatives-to-DTRPG-(please-create-one)
In that context, I have no idea if their motives are geuninely driven by consience or something else.
The only worrying thing about DT is that it's a defacto monopoly. It's from this point of view that an argument against them taking down stuff can be built.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1122186One thing I think you are missing is that One Book Shelf has a track record of bending the knee to social media pressure.
When I posted Monday, I was aware the odds were high that it would go viral at least throughout the OSR. It did, and as a side effect people were sending me post after post of stuff from earlier in his timeline up until he changed his profile. All of them consistent with what I initially saw and talked about with Mr. Bledsaw. Some were worse. From what I can tell nearly all of it was also posted publicly as well.
This is the context in which Onebookshelf made their decision.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1122186One thing I think you are missing is that One Book Shelf has a track record of bending the knee to social media pressure.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?33091-OneBookShelf-Easier-Censorship-Button-(Or-Social-Justice-Button-)
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40179-We-need-alternatives-to-DTRPG-(please-create-one)
In that context, I have no idea if their motives are geuninely driven by consience or something else.
Right, sure. And that's why I singled them out, but in general this is very different from the typical cancel culture playbook of:
Step 1) Fragile entryists find slightly edgy take of industry insider, or manufacture one through misquoting
Step 2) Through catastrophizing and hyperbolic implication the slightly edge statement is paraded around the internet as a sign of an urgent danger and horrible risk to some imagined victim class.
Step 3) Business partners and platforms are threatened with repercussions if the now established thought criminal is not banished from polite society.
Step 4) Un-personing of the wrong-thinker.
This just isn't following that playbook, broadly speaking. Instead it seems to be a case of:
Step 1) Unhinged lunatic makes blatant racists and antisemitic statements.
Step 2) When contacted by friends and fellow industry insiders, lunatic doubles down.
Step 3) Industry insiders step away, with sadness and regret for the situation.
Quote from: SHARK;1122189Greetings!
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a pedophile? Where is that been substantiated?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Hey Shark. Chris posted a link to an article. It's testimony from her daughter, and Bradley isn't around to defend herself, but its ugly stuff and has the ring of truth.
Quote from: estar;1122198When I posted Monday, I was aware the odds were high that it would go viral at least throughout the OSR. It did, and as a side effect people were sending me post after post of stuff from earlier in his timeline up until he changed his profile. All of them consistent with what I initially saw and talked about with Mr. Bledsaw. Some were worse. From what I can tell nearly all of it was also posted publicly as well.
This is the context in which Onebookshelf made their decision.
Rob, you did what your conscience demanded of you. For that you should be commended. Mr. Bledsaw is responsible for any fall-out from this and the damage to his family's legacy, not you or anyone else.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1122186One thing I think you are missing is that One Book Shelf has a track record of bending the knee to social media pressure.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?33091-OneBookShelf-Easier-Censorship-Button-(Or-Social-Justice-Button-)
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40179-We-need-alternatives-to-DTRPG-(please-create-one)
In that context, I have no idea if their motives are geuninely driven by consience or something else.
Quote from: SHARK;1122189Greetings!
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a pedophile? Where is that been substantiated?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Hey Shark. Chris posted a link to an article. It's testimony from her daughter, and Bradley isn't around to defend herself, but its ugly stuff and has the ring of truth.
Quote from: estar;1122198When I posted Monday, I was aware the odds were high that it would go viral at least throughout the OSR. It did, and as a side effect people were sending me post after post of stuff from earlier in his timeline up until he changed his profile. All of them consistent with what I initially saw and talked about with Mr. Bledsaw. Some were worse. From what I can tell nearly all of it was also posted publicly as well.
This is the context in which Onebookshelf made their decision.
Rob, you did what your conscience demanded of you. For that you should be commended. Mr. Bledsaw is responsible for any fall-out from this and the damage to his family's legacy, not you or anyone else.
Quote from: Brendan;1122201This just isn't following that playbook, broadly speaking. Instead it seems to be a case of:
Step 1) Unhinged lunatic makes blatant racists and antisemitic statements.
Step 2) When contacted by friends and fellow industry insiders, lunatic doubles down.
Step 3) Industry insiders step away, with sadness and regret for the situation.
This is what I find unsubstantiated. I wonder what OBS reaction would have been without the social media attention, considering that track record.
Maybe they wouldnt have given a shit, or laughed. Who knows?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1122205This is what I find unsubstantiated. I wonder what OBS reaction would have been without the social media attention; considering that track record
maybe they wouldnt have given a shit
Respectfully, I think we're referring to two different things. You seem to be focused on OBS specifically and I'm talking about the OSR in general.
Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1122194Here's a link to one of the original articles about it:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/27/sff-community-marion-zimmer-bradley-daughter-accuses-abuse (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/27/sff-community-marion-zimmer-bradley-daughter-accuses-abuse)
It's a pretty terrible thing.
Greetings!
Thank you, ThatChrisGuy. Very much. I read the article, as well as all of the commentary. Very eye-opening, to be sure. I agree with you, it is a pretty terrible thing. I'm stunned. I had no knowledge of her being married to a man that was a convicted pedophile and child rapist, was imprisoned, and died in prison. And all along she was with him, either "willfully ignorant", "Negligent" or what have you. It's all bullshit. Then her daughter comes out with her own stories of her father, and her mother. Just so shocking, sad, and terrible.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brendan;1122206Respectfully, I think we're referring to two different things. You seem to be focused on OBS specifically and I'm talking about the OSR in general.
Ah, ok then.
And what about OBS then ?
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Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1122194Here's a link to one of the original articles about it:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/27/sff-community-marion-zimmer-bradley-daughter-accuses-abuse (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/27/sff-community-marion-zimmer-bradley-daughter-accuses-abuse)
It's a pretty terrible thing.
Assuming its is true. I could see her as being abusive. Or at least in todays, or even the 90s, skewed perceptions of what is abusive. That is nothing new. But molesting her daughter,
and other kids? Possibly abusing other kids too? And no one knowing? And only now after shes dead it comes out? But unfortunately that is often the case. People do not speak up till long after when its sometimes impossible to sort out what happened.
More unfortunately I know a family where one member 100% believes her father molested her as a child. But the rest of the family doesnt believe it since she claims they were molested as well, and think that her psychologist put the idea in her head. It comes across as something straight out of a Voyager episode.
Quote from: Omega;1122225Assuming its is true. I could see her as being abusive. Or at least in todays, or even the 90s, skewed perceptions of what is abusive. That is nothing new. But molesting her daughter, and other kids? Possibly abusing other kids too? And no one knowing? And only now after shes dead it comes out? But unfortunately that is often the case. People do not speak up till long after when its sometimes impossible to sort out what happened.
More unfortunately I know a family where one member 100% believes her father molested her as a child. But the rest of the family doesnt believe it since she claims they were molested as well, and think that her psychologist put the idea in her head. It comes across as something straight out of a Voyager episode.
It was in her writings though as well. The
Mists of Avalon was very controversial when it was first published. She has some other writing more intense than that. Just another thing I'm sad to learn about in this thread.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1122195The only worrying thing about DT is that it's a defacto monopoly. It's from this point of view that an argument against them taking down stuff can be built.
Not quite a monopoly. But its huge. It exists much like Kickstarter or BGG. Which by such a definition are monopolies too. But the reality is that there are other smaller venues out there. None get you the visibility of these big venues. But OBS and KS are not monopolies.
Taking the stuff down though is a blow. But that can happen to anyone they disapprove of. You use it at your own risk.
Speaking of BGG. If they ever get dedicated POD service. They could easily compete with or even overtake OBS. That IS NOT a good thing by the way.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122228It was in her writings though as well. The Mists of Avalon was very controversial when it was first published. She has some other writing more intense than that. Just another thing I'm sad to learn about in this thread.
Such as? Quite a few writers have put in some really out there stuff in their works? Thats not any indicator they did this stuff for real. It is not any proof Bradley did anything for real. No more than a lack of such elements would be proof of her innocence.
Like with alot of this stuff. We as outsiders can probably never know what really happened. Especially today in this era of rampant fake accusations and "allways believe the accuser" which just makes things increasingly worse.
Quote from: Omega;1122232Such as? Quite a few writers have put in some really out there stuff in their works? Thats not any indicator they did this stuff for real. It is not any proof Bradley did anything for real. No more than a lack of such elements would be proof of her innocence.
Like with alot of this stuff. We as outsiders can probably never know what really happened. Especially today in this era of rampant fake accusations and "allways believe the accuser" which just makes things increasingly worse.
Did you read the article? It's pretty damning if even partially true.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1121815One cuck there tossed his digital copy of Tegel Manor until it was pointed out that 1) Bob Sr, not Bob Jr. originally published it, and 2) Jennel Jaquays was in the original JG and she never would have worked for Bob Jr. or Bob III knowing their political preferences.
Jennel Jaquays is probably going to keep quite on this one.
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Quote from: Gagarth;1122234Jennel Jaquays is probably going to keep quite on this one.
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AFAIK he's only associated with 4 Judges Guild releases anyways.
One of them, the name is the cause of some mirth... "Glory Hole Dwarven Mine"
Quote from: Gagarth;1122234Jennel Jaquays is probably going to keep quite on this one.
[ATTACH=CONFIG] *Read it* [/ATTACH]
Keep quiet why?
Not seeing the racism and anti-Semitism there...
One Big question -
How Does ANY of this BS affect the way people actually game week to week, month to month?
- Ed C.
I also question why the American citizens of Flint, Michigan don't have clean drinking water while American tax dollars are going to ANY foreign nation.
But that's not a "Jewish conspiracy" thing. That's a foreign vs. domestic policy thing.
Quote from: Koltar;1122241How Does ANY of this BS affect the way people actually game week to week, month to month?
In general, zero.
However...will a game convention ban Judges Guild products from being played at tables or sold in the flea market?
I love running the mini-modules from Pegasus at cons, and I advertise them as such. I guess we will all see if there's any long term repercussions or whether it will be forgotten, except for Bledsaw's ban from DriveThru.
The Truth is "Judges Guild" was mostly a thing of the '7os and '80s. Old fart gamers who overly nostalgic love talking about them or using old copies of their products.
The week to week or twice a month D&D or Pathfinder gamers don't give a shit about 'Judges Guild' - because they have never heard of them. If they have heard of them - and that s a BIG damn "IF" - it is in passing and talked about by those middle aged or older white guy gamers who seem to live in the past.
-Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1122245The Truth is "Judges Guild" was mostly a thing of the '7os and '80s. Old fart gamers who overly nostalgic love talking about them or using old copies of their products.
-Ed C.
Hey! I resemble that remark. My DCC campaign is set in the CSIO and I love to bore my players with tales of the olden days (JG or otherwise).
Quote from: Koltar;1122241One Big question -
How Does ANY of this BS affect the way people actually game week to week, month to month?
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1122245The Truth is "Judges Guild" was mostly a thing of the '7os and '80s. Old fart gamers who overly nostalgic love talking about them or using old copies of their products.
The week to week or twice a month D&D or Pathfinder gamers don't give a shit about 'Judges Guild' - because they have never heard of them. If they have heard of them - and that s a BIG damn "IF" - it is in passing and talked about by those middle aged or older white guy gamers who seem to live in the past.
-Ed C.
For myself I am well aware that in terms of sales and audience I sell and speak to a niche to a niche. As for being "Old Fart Gamers" I met a few but I also met a bunch of different types of folks. It seems like a mix like anywhere else in the hobby and industry. Just in the hundreds instead of the tens of thousands of D&D and Pathfinder.
As for why the situation is of importance to anybody, all I can say imagine if the principal individual behind SJ Games wasn't the person you thought he was. That it was serious enough that it killed the company overnight leaving beloved games and a community in the lurch. While D&D and Pathfinder gamers aren't going to give a shit. I happen to know dozens of individuals who would not be happy if something was to happen to SJ Games. Or Chaosium or dozens of other companies both new and old that D&D and Pathfinder players don't give a shit about.
Quote from: Koltar;1122241One Big question -
How Does ANY of this BS affect the way people actually game week to week, month to month?
- Ed C.
Well if the material is taken down then it cant be bought or used?
Past that? Probably not alot. Most will realize that the judges guild material is not Bledsaw.
Quote from: Koltar;1122241One Big question - How Does ANY of this BS affect the way people actually game week to week, month to month?
As I stated in my previous post, it doesn't effect most of the hobby or industry.
However I do agree it is BS, that a person I helped and worked with for a decade (http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2020/02/concerning-judges-guild.html) considered that it is a great idea to write posts that could be lifted from the Protocols of Zion and related works. Then to try to convince me that they were factually accurate. That the situation was such that I had to inform the other licensee lest they be blindsided as all of these posts were public on a facebook timeline. Knowing that there was a good chance that because of that it will go public. When it did then making multiple drafts of a public statement on Monday, to make it clear why I would no longer do business with Judges Guild and why it happened. So yes it was BS for any of this to have happen. But to do nothing was unacceptable.
Quote from: Koltar;1122241One Big question -
How Does ANY of this BS affect the way people actually game week to week, month to month?
- Ed C.
Well, I don't think anything talked about on these forms affects the way people actually game week to week, month to month.
But we still like to discuss the hobby.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1121890Thanks for the recommendation, I might do that, but putting money in the wallet of a racist? NOPE.
Yeah. Hard to support Hitler.
I hate being in situations like that. But sometimes its better to cut free before things get somehow worse. My fall out with BDP is a big one for me even all these years later. Being stolen from by an artist I'd known and promoted for years and then learning that artist was ripping off alot of customers, is another. And a few others.
There is of course a problem of SJWs trying desperately to muddy the waters by suggesting that Bledsaw's blatant and vicious anti-semitism to the degree of holocaust denial is somehow justification that "the community" must cancel every single OSR designer who refuses to align with their ultra-far-left beliefs. In spite of every single important OSR designer I know having condemned Bledsaw.
But none of that changes the reality of what Bledsaw posted.
On the contrary, rather than somehow justify him "because the SJWs", what we need to do is point out the stark contrast between what an actual REAL neo-nazi looks and sounds like versus the absurdity of the charges they try to accuse normal gamers and game designers of.
Quote from: Gagarth;1122234Jennel Jaquays is probably going to keep quite on this one.
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Jaquays as a Social Justice icon is hilarious. They've created a character that bears no resemblance to reality.
Quote from: Theory of Games;1122253Yeah. Hard to support Hitler.
Unless he's selling a kewl new iPhone. Then it's easy.
People justify supporting horrific assholes every day if they are getting something they want out of the deal.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122256On the contrary, rather than somehow justify him "because the SJWs", what we need to do is point out the stark contrast between what an actual REAL neo-nazi looks and sounds like versus the absurdity of the charges they try to accuse normal gamers and game designers of.
SJWs aren't going to listen to any discussion. "OSR = Neo Nazi" is their delusion and SJWs don't wake up from delusions.
OSR gamers don't give a shit about Bledsaw 2/3 being assholes. They will either buy JG stuff from JG, or buy JG stuff from eBay, or skip JG stuff for the bazillions of OSR new products, but active OSR players won't stop playing OSR stuff because of Bledsaws saying stupid shit.
The non-OSR gamers will either discover the OSR or they won't. Those "new gamers" who believe the SJW claptrap don't matter because the OSR community doesn't need people who gobble down SJW bullshit.
Apart from Bob Bledsaw being an idiot, this tells me all I need to know about the utility of spending hours of a life posting crap to facebook. Because if an RPG luminary can put this stuff on his personal feed for apparently years, and no one saw it until a random algorithm decided they should have it shoved in their face, then that means no one bothers to actually go look at your personal page.
Quote from: Jaeger;1122236Keep quiet why?
Not seeing the racism and anti-Semitism there...
So you missed the homophobia and support for traditional families then. Jaquays has been given pass on this since transition but I am sure she does not want to open the door on this by commenting on the current shit show.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122261Unless he's selling a kewl new iPhone. Then it's easy.
People justify supporting horrific assholes every day if they are getting something they want out of the deal.
"Peace in our time."
Quote from: Slipshot762;1122172if you train kids to follow the power plus privilege crap and then give them time to stew on jewish success the jealousy will always morph into anti-semitism.
It's simpler than that.
Jews=Israel=Republican Support=Right Wing=BAD
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122256what we need to do is point out the stark contrast between what an actual REAL neo-nazi looks and sounds like versus the absurdity of the charges they try to accuse normal gamers and game designers of.
This is an important point. Not just for community infighting -- also because these beliefs are actually, truly evil. Another stark contrast. Condemning, hating, or dehumanizing another for inherent characteristics that they did not choose and that they have no control over is firmly established as evil in mindset and inevitably in practice.
And injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
I am sad for the Judges Guild and sad for the creators whose work has been deep sixed because of association with this jerk. I hope we find some way not to completely lose touch with the good work.
That said, this guy is deeply wrong and his posts serve a very old evil in humanity that we need to be ever vigilant against. For his own sake, if nothing else, I hope he learns better in his lifetime.
Also while I'm dipping my toe in this thread anyway I want to say bravo estar for very thoughtful, constructive, and reasonable responses in what must be a very painful situation. I don't know that I could handle things as gracefully were I in your shoes.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122261SJWs aren't going to listen to any discussion. "OSR = Neo Nazi" is their delusion and SJWs don't wake up from delusions.
Of course they're not going to listen. Who gives a shit what they think? I'm talking about making EVERYONE ELSE see just how completely INSANE the SJWs are, that they can't distinguish between a literal pro-slavery holocaust-denier on the one hand, and a guy who questioned some tweet about how "there were literally no female gamers before 2019", and call both of those nazis.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1122281It's simpler than that.
Jews=Israel=Republican Support=Right Wing=BAD
Where do my lefty Jewish friends who are very critical of Israel fit into that equation? They've been my primary education on such matters, and contradictory to what a lot of church folks have tried to tell me.
Quote from: Simlasa;1122292Where do my lefty Jewish friends who are very critical of Israel fit into that equation? They've been my primary education on such matters, and contradictory to what a lot of church folks have tried to tell me.
Ok, well that depends on what they are saying, why they are saying it, and what people who listen to their statements are doing with them. Most of the left wing critique of Israel these days is wildly off-base and is based on propaganda that is fundamentally antisemitic. The fact that some Jews on the left stand outside of the majority consensus of Jewish communities around the world (that Israel is fundamentally a just state, needs to exist, and like all other Western democracies isn't perfect) is basically childish behaviour--at best.
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1122295Most of the left wing critique of Israel these days is wildly off-base and is based on propaganda that is fundamentally antisemitic.
See, that's what my friends rail against... that just about any critical statement they have about the country and its leadership are portrayed as 'anti-semitic'. No lefty people I know, Jewish or otherwise, are saying the country should cease to exist.
Quote from: Simlasa;1122297See, that's what my friends rail against... that just about any critical statement they have about the country and its leadership are portrayed as 'anti-semitic'. No lefty people I know, Jewish or otherwise, are saying the country should cease to exist.
Sure sure. But a lot of the discourse on Israel used on the left uses all sorts of motifs, images, analogies, double standards, etc that end up being antisemitic. The complaint "they're trying to silence us by claiming our legitimate criticism of Israel is antisemitic" is usually a good indicator. "Antisemitism has been 'weaponized' to silence pro-Palestinian voices and critique of Israel" is another. Literally the noisiest silence of the modern era.
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1122298Sure sure. But a lot of the discourse on Israel used on the left uses all sorts of motifs, images, analogies, double standards, etc that end up being antisemitic. The complaint "they're trying to silence us by claiming our legitimate criticism of Israel is antisemitic" is usually a good indicator. "Antisemitism has been 'weaponized' to silence pro-Palestinian voices and critique of Israel" is another. Literally the noisiest silence of the modern era.
Not to mention the open alliance between the left and the islamists
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122289Of course they're not going to listen. Who gives a shit what they think? I'm talking about making EVERYONE ELSE see just how completely INSANE the SJWs are, that they can't distinguish between a literal pro-slavery holocaust-denier on the one hand, and a guy who questioned some tweet about how "there were literally no female gamers before 2019", and call both of those nazis.
The bright light on the tunnel is the more crazy the loons go the more "normies" realize just how crazy they are. And now we have an example of a true racist and how the hobby reacted to him vs how the loons react to those who don't drink the koolaid
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1122305Not to mention the open alliance between the left and the islamists
And how does that manifest? By being friends with Moslems? By not being afraid of Islam? Other than that, I personally haven't seen any signs of any 'alliance'.
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1122298Sure sure. But a lot of the discourse on Israel used on the left uses all sorts of motifs, images, analogies, double standards, etc that end up being antisemitic.
I'll note that the friends I mentioned are fairly suspicious of Christians who claim to support Israel, finding it condescending/paternalistic... and motivated by their fever for apocalypse prophecy.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1122305Not to mention the open alliance between the left and the islamists
Islam is right about women!
LOL. That will take care of that alliance!
Quote from: Simlasa;1122292Where do my lefty Jewish friends who are very critical of Israel fit into that equation? They've been my primary education on such matters, and contradictory to what a lot of church folks have tried to tell me.
On the fringe Right, anti-semitism is a product of neo-nazi racial theory, 'blood und soil' ethnonationalism, or ultra-reactionary religious (mostly ultramontane anti-vatican2 Catholic) primitivist views of Jews as rejectors-of-christ who need to be punished.
On the mainstream left, Anti-semitism is due to a (correct) recognition of the Jewish people and Israel as a state being part of Western Civilization, and a particularly disproportionately successful part of the West, and thus hating them as part of general sympathy against the West (leading to the support of mass-murdering Jihadi groups that have the genocide of the entire jewish people as part of their mission statement).
Or to put it more succinctly: neo-nazis think Jews aren't white people. Intersectional post-modernist neo-marxist leftists think that Jews are white people.
BTW, we give DriveThru plenty of well-deserved criticism for being censorious douchebags, but I gotta give them a smidgen of respect for not deleting the products of Judge Guild licensees. If you go to DriveThru and search for Bledsaw, you'll see dozens of products still for sale. They didn't go scorched earth against JG's fandom and in 2020, that's at least something worth noting.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122315BTW, we give DriveThru plenty of well-deserved criticism for being censorious douchebags, but I gotta give them a smidgen of respect for not deleting the products of Judge Guild licensees. If you go to DriveThru and search for Bledsaw, you'll see dozens of products still for sale. They didn't go scorched earth against JG's fandom and in 2020, that's at least something worth noting.
Some further notes
The license for Tegal Manor from Frog God Games specifies that all royalties are put towards fulfilling the kickstarter.
Currently I have a waiver from royalties in lieu of being paid for the last nine maps and the CSIO map. But I still have to turn in royalty reports and the waiver will be removed once the total reaches the final total. Which could be late 2020 or early 2021. Once that happens I will take down the listings.
I don't know what Goodman Games arrangements are.
Quote from: Simlasa;1122309I'll note that the friends I mentioned are fairly suspicious of Christians who claim to support Israel, finding it condescending/paternalistic... and motivated by their fever for apocalypse prophecy.
Off topic. But thats nothing new. It also pops up now and then whenever a heavily pro christian type runs for president. Someone wonders if they arent just after the position so they can push the big red button and kick off the apocalypse.
Bringing back on topic. Pretty sure at least one RPG or adventure for one had that as a theme.
Quote from: Simlasa;1122297See, that's what my friends rail against... that just about any critical statement they have about the country and its leadership are portrayed as 'anti-semitic'. No lefty people I know, Jewish or otherwise, are saying the country should cease to exist.
In Britain the position that Israel is illegitimate is fairly mainstream on the hard Left. Blairites are pro Israel, George Galloway and those of his ilk see Israel and Northern Ireland as settler states that should be destroyed. I expect Jeremy Corbyn feels the same.
There are right wing Israeli Jews like the historian Martin Van Creveld highly critical of the Netanyahu govt, I tend to respect their opinion. I definitely think there are issues around excessuve use of force by the Israeli military, both at platoon level and at the highest level. It should be possible to say so without allying with Galloway.
Quote from: S'mon;1122346There are right wing Israeli Jews like the historian Martin Van Creveld highly critical of the Netanyahu govt, I tend to respect their opinion. I definitely think there are issues around excessuve use of force by the Israeli military, both at platoon level and at the highest level. It should be possible to say so without allying with Galloway.
Ok. But on the left (and parts of the right), the next line is usually "the Jews should have learned from the Holocaust" or something like "Israel is the new Nazis". Which is Galloway/Livingston.
Quote from: Simlasa;1122309I'll note that the friends I mentioned are fairly suspicious of Christians who claim to support Israel, finding it condescending/paternalistic... and motivated by their fever for apocalypse prophecy.
There are certainly some Christians who are supportive of Jews and Israel because they see the fulfillment of prophecy in the offing. And that's pretty questionable. Though I wonder if left wing Jews are going to be naturally suspicious of American right wing Christians, for good and bad reasons.
And there are loads of Christian groups that are maliciously anti-Israel, mainly on the left, in whose animus one can't help but find classical Christian antisemitic motives.
The problem in both these cases are the Christians, not Israel or the Jews.
Quote from: estar;1122317I don't know what Goodman Games arrangements are.
I didn't follow the kickstarter for GG's Judges Guild Deluxe Collector's Edition Volume One (I did just buy it and it's stupidly large and amazing) but I did a little searching to see if a Volume Two was in the works and apparently it is. I hope we still see this produced and I think it's likely just because it is supposed to be a collection of Jaquay's stuff. The probable reason that GG hasn't made a statement yet is that they are working out how to get this done while still distancing themselves from Bledsaw somehow.
From one of the few Kickstarters I have participated in.
The Tonisburg Dungeon addition add-on won't be shipped, as part of the Secrets of Blackmoor True History of Dungeons & Dragons DvD Kickstarter, as they are finally shipping the movie DvD this week, but had been waiting for the add-ons to be finished. It will probably be shipped later, after they find a new partner to finish that book.
Anyway, for reference here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/secretsofblackmoor/secrets-of-blackmoor-the-true-history-of-dungeons/posts/2756098 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/secretsofblackmoor/secrets-of-blackmoor-the-true-history-of-dungeons/posts/2756098)
Quote from: Simlasa;1122308And how does that manifest? By being friends with Moslems? By not being afraid of Islam? Other than that, I personally haven't seen any signs of any 'alliance'.
Really, no evidence?
Here, have some (https://quillette.com/2020/02/04/grooming-gangs-and-indifferent-police-what-have-we-learned-from-the-sex-abuse-scandals/)
And this, (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan) this, (https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-met-anti-semitism-democrats-farrakhan-20180306-story.html) this (https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democratic-party-drops-its-sponsorship-of-the-womens-march-amid-farrakhan-blow-up)
Goodman Games statement on Judges Guild. (https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/02/17/goodman-games-comments-on-judges-guild/)
Direct YouTube link to the video statement. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4SIarNeUs)
Quote from: Red Death;1122410Goodman Games statement on Judges Guild. (https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/02/17/goodman-games-comments-on-judges-guild/)
Direct YouTube link to the video statement. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4SIarNeUs)
Unfortunate that the GG people are having to give up 20% of their profits because they associated with an asshole, and I hope things don't get any worse for them.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1122418Unfortunate that the GG people are having to give up 20% of their profits because they associated with an asshole, and I hope things don't get any worse for them.
Cliffs..? I'm not watching a video. Why are they giving up 20% of their profits?
Quote from: HappyDaze;1122418Unfortunate that the GG people are having to give up 20% of their profits because they associated with an asshole, and I hope things don't get any worse for them.
Part of that 20% is Bob Bledsaw Jr.'s royalties, so it isn't as bad for them as it sounds.
I hope this marks the start of a path forward to the IP being saved and kept available.
Goodman is a good man. :D
I'm glad that they were able to bring something positive out of this shit. And I'm really looking forward to this next book.
Quote from: Brad;1122420Cliffs..? I'm not watching a video. Why are they giving up 20% of their profits?
Goodman Games indicated they'd donate 20% of the profits for the Judges Guild Collector's Edition Vol 2 to GLAAD and ADL and part of that 20% encompasses all of Bledsaw Jr's royalties as well, so he's not seeing any money off the project.
Goodman also indicated that BB offered up his share of the royalties to the charities without prompting, so
maybe he's starting to realize just how much damage he's done?
Quote from: Red Death;1122410Goodman Games statement on Judges Guild. (https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/02/17/goodman-games-comments-on-judges-guild/)
Direct YouTube link to the video statement. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4SIarNeUs)
Why does the video talk about LGBT?
I thought all the Bledsaw II posts were about blacks and jews?
Quote from: DocJones;1122432Why does the video talk about LGBT?
I thought all the Bledsaw II posts were about blacks and jews?
Jennell Jaquays was formerly known as Paul Jaquays and was one of the prominent authors of some original Judges Guild titles, which are going to be in the upcoming Goodman collection they spoke about in the video.
So dude goes on an anti-semitic rant, donate money to gay people..? Makes 100% sense in the modern day.
When debating right wing or left wing anti semitism, both are watered by the same sources. I see old Tsarist propaganda in both.
They did mention in the video that one of the charities receiving a share of the profits was the Anti-Defamation League.
Quote from: Red Death;1122434Jennell Jaquays was formerly known as Paul Jaquays and was one of the prominent authors of some original Judges Guild titles, which are going to be in the upcoming Goodman collection they spoke about in the video.
Yeah we know this, but what does that have to do with Bledsaw?
Quote from: Brad;1122435So dude goes on an anti-semitic rant, donate money to gay people..? Makes 100% sense in the modern day.
Yeah you'd think they'd donate to ADL and maybe the UNCF or NAACP.
Quote from: Red Death;1122410Goodman Games statement on Judges Guild. (https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/02/17/goodman-games-comments-on-judges-guild/)
Direct YouTube link to the video statement. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4SIarNeUs)
Well, at least I know how to pronounce Jaquays now.
Quote from: ffilz;1122422I hope this marks the start of a path forward to the IP being saved and kept available.
I do too. My prime concern around all this is that some good and historical RPG material would be blacklisted because of the drama generated by one dude on twitter.
Quote from: DocJones;1122443Yeah we know this, but what does that have to do with Bledsaw?
The SJWs keep talking about the saintly Jaquays, how Jaquays must not be tainted by this tragedy, how sad Jaquays must be, etc etc.
Over at Big Purple, they are mad that Goodman Games either took too long to issue a statement, or that the statement isn't strong enough.
Did a mod (MAB) just red text a mod (CS) ???
Quote from: Aglondir;1122463Over at Big Purple, they are mad that Goodman Games either took too long to issue a statement, or that the statement isn't strong enough.
Did a mod (MAB) just red text a mod (CS) ???
Yes they did... Also you mean Enworld too, don't you? They closed their thread over yesterday there before Goodman Games weighed in. Kind of looked like this in bold red in response to a trolling poster over there:
QuoteMod Note:
Now... the question is... what harm does expressing anti-semitism do to Jewish people?
Really?
This thread is done. Good night everyone.
So neither really know what to do. Over here we just cut ties with the offending partie(s). Now that hurt me some, cause I really liked Judges Guild. All the retarded events this week really hurt Rob Conley, and James Mishler too.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122465Yes they did... Also you mean Enworld too, don't you?
I haven't checked that one out yet.
To no one surprise our not so favoured wide eyed sociopath Jessica Price is claiming that Bob Senior was allegedly racist and anti-Semitic. I guess she stopped being relevant or just wanted attention. It's Over at TBP on page 29 of a similar thread like this one post # 286
Quote from: sureshot;1122479To no one surprise our not so favoured wide eyed sociopath Jessica Price is claiming that Bob Senior was allegedly racist and anti-Semitic. I guess she stopped being relevant or just wanted attention. It's Over at TBP on page 29 of a similar thread like this one post # 286
Yea, I saw that post. One of the derogatory terms he was supposed to have used was very commonly used in the 70s so I wouldn't say that it's use in those days is necessarily a sign of the individual being deeply anti-Semitic.
The rants we have from II and III are not just derogatory terms but actual beliefs expressed. That is way different than even frequent use of a derogatory term.
Well, TBP is going full flamethrower mode on Judges Guild...
Maybe a bit of "well is Sr. really the same or not? I need more information" but Goodman Games is being blasted into oblivion because they didn't want to cut all ties with the IP.
I may not lump as many people into the SJW camp as some here might, but these SJW antics are crazy business.
I really hope Goodman Games finds a way to get the IP away from the Bledsaws and allows it to continue to be available and celebrated. It's good stuff and it's deeply part of gaming history. Unless we want to start burning all early gaming to the ground, we need to find a way past this.
But I suppose it's easy for SJWs who have zero interest in early RPGs to burn it all to the ground...
So far from what I can see SJWs usually don't seem to make good business people. Or at least the more extreme ones. It's all too easy to say if you don't cut ties with Bledsaw II and I your just as bad as them. It's not their money at risk after all and CB predictably the mods are not doing anything to put out the dumpster fire as usual.
Lmao. Based on this thread duplicate and the one about the writer of the Altered Carbon book series over at TBP, you would think 98% of America is Trump-obsessed neo-Nazi militia members literally and openly executing and curb-stomping Jews and trans people in the streets.
In any case, Bob Bledsaw II is clearly an idiot. And watching mods red-text each other is never not funny. Shame that Goodman Games is getting martyred over this ("shielding" Bledsaw with their public statement, what a bunch of "Nazi collaborators"! They sure have "shown their colors"! :rolleyes:) and that so many significant RPG contributors' names are being dragged through the mud by association (however loose it may be). I wonder how many game companies will be left standing once these endless infantile crusades are finished? Interesting that YouTube's business model is evidently to "profit from Nazi manufacturing algorithms and intentionally radicalize youths" and "funneling people towards alt-right influencer networks," those are ones I hadn't heard before.
The problem I faced is whether I wanted to do business with an individual who posted bigoted posts. Not just any type of bigotry but posts using phrases and logic that could lifted straight out of the Protocols of Zion (Tsarist anti-semitic book) or a KKK pamphlet. Multiple posts that stretch back at least months. This is the central issue I faced.
There is plenty to debate in regards to the larger issues of our times. But for this situation it boils down to the above. This the question that everybody has to answer in accordance with their conscience. Especially since the facts are clear cut. Multiple posts over a long span of time with material clearly drawn from works widely considered to be bigoted.
My decision was that I could not continue to do future business with Judges Guild, that I would continue to list Judges Guild products as long as my royalty waiver continued, and that I would inform the other licensee lest they be blindsided due to all of Mr. Bledsaw's posts having public status on facebook. As a result of talking to the licensees the information became public which led to my statement.
Quote from: ffilz;1122494Yea, I saw that post. One of the derogatory terms he was supposed to have used was very commonly used in the 70s so I wouldn't say that it's use in those days is necessarily a sign of the individual being deeply anti-Semitic.
The rants we have from II and III are not just derogatory terms but actual beliefs expressed. That is way different than even frequent use of a derogatory term.
I have a few older relatives (in their 70s now) that occasionally use jew as a verb in that since. While I wouldn't call them Nazis, their casual anti-Semitism wigs me out. Fortunately it's been about 20 years since I've had any real dealings with them. I can see how it's possible for the casual anti-Semistism of Bob I later hardened into the neo-Nazi attitudes of II and III. We like to think racist attitudes would diminish over the generations, but that's not guaranteed.
Other times the anti-Semitism seems to come out of nowhere. I have a much younger sister who has gone full blow anti-Semite, but this was from the progressive left standpoint. She had little interaction with the aforementioned relatives, and she didn't get it from my immediate family. It came while she got involved with the BDS movement in grad school. She started spouting things that could have come straight from the Protocols. I'd hate to think my whole family would get tarred for her insane hatred. It bothers me to see some of the SJWs now claim the entire Bledsaw family are neo-Nazis. II and III fit that description, but it seems unfair to put that label on the entire family.
Quote from: estar;1122501The problem I faced is whether I wanted to do business with an individual who posted bigoted posts. Not just any type of bigotry but posts using phrases and logic that could lifted straight out of the Protocols of Zion (Tsarist anti-semitic book) or a KKK pamphlet. Multiple posts that stretch back at least months. This is the central issue I faced.
There is plenty to debate in regards to the larger issues of our times. But for this situation it boils down to the above. This the question that everybody has to answer in accordance with their conscience. Especially since the facts are clear cut. Multiple posts over a long span of time with material clearly drawn from works widely considered to be bigoted.
My decision was that I could not continue to do future business with Judges Guild, that I would continue to list Judges Guild products as long as my royalty waiver continued, and that I would inform the other licensee lest they be blindsided due to all of Mr. Bledsaw's posts having public status on facebook. As a result of talking to the licensees the information became public which led to my statement.
Now that Goodman Games has got agreement from Bob Bledsaw Jr. to donate his royalties, have you considered re-negotiating your agreement?
Of course by the logic of some of the folks over there on TBP, even your continuing to sell until you have been paid for work already done and then taking the products down wouldn't be enough...
Quote from: wmarshal;1122503I have a few older relatives (in their 70s now) that occasionally use jew as a verb in that since. While I wouldn't call them Nazis, their casual anti-Semitism wigs me out. Fortunately it's been about 20 years since I've had any real dealings with them. I can see how it's possible for the casual anti-Semistism of Bob I later hardened into the neo-Nazi attitudes of II and III. We like to think racist attitudes would diminish over the generations, but that's not guaranteed.
Other times the anti-Semitism seems to come out of nowhere. I have a much younger sister who has gone full blow anti-Semite, but this was from the progressive left standpoint. She had little interaction with the aforementioned relatives, and she didn't get it from my immediate family. It came while she got involved with the BDS movement in grad school. She started spouting things that could have come straight from the Protocols. I'd hate to think my whole family would get tarred for her insane hatred. It bothers me to see some of the SJWs now claim the entire Bledsaw family are neo-Nazis. II and III fit that description, but it seems unfair to put that label on the entire family.
Hey wmarshal. The kind of old person casual racism you describe doesn't really bug me, provided that's as far as it goes. There's a big difference between a crotchety old grandpa who says some cringe worthy things about [insert stereotype here] behind closed doors, but otherwise treats more or less everyone with courtesy and respect, and Bledsaw's blatant and political racism and antisemitism. Can one morph into the other? Sure, but I think the line is a lot firmer than many think, and Bledsaw II is most definitely over it.
Regarding your sister... yeah, that's very annoying. If you're interested in a good counter argument to the "evil oppressor" BDS propaganda, check out Robert Spencer's "The Palestine Delusion" https://www.amazon.com/Palestinian-Delusion-Catastrophic-History-Process/dp/164293254X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+palestine+delusion&link_code=qs&qid=1582047444&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-1. I'm listening to it on Audible right now. Good stuff.
Quote from: ffilz;1122505Now that Goodman Games has got agreement from Bob Bledsaw Jr. to donate his royalties, have you considered re-negotiating your agreement?
I don't think it is realistic or fair to ask anybody to license their IP for free. So I am omitting that as an option. Mr. Bledsaw contributing his royalty to charity for a long duration of time is licensing the IP for free even if the money is going to a good cause.
I do have opinions on how to go forward however everything is still developing. Thus what I can think can be done changes in light of new information and how I could accomplish it also changes. Like with the kickstarter if there is something I can do, I will do it.
The only thing I can say for certain right now is that back in 2008 I didn't expect to get a license for the Judges Guild IP so was working on a version of the Majestic Wilderlands with the Judges Guild IP omitted. That and the terms of my license regarding my original IP provides a source of material that allow me to recover some of my work and move forward on the rest. Luckily I have time as my next project, the Wild North, was already going to be Blackmarsh related which doesn't use Judges Guild IP.
Quote from: ffilz;1122505Of course by the logic of some of the folks over there on TBP, even your continuing to sell until you have been paid for work already done and then taking the products down wouldn't be enough...
I disagree with their reasoning. I have a royalty waiver therefore I am comfortable that I am ethically right to act in my own economic self-interest. Because no royalties are being paid to Judges Guild, the fulcrum on whether it is ethical or not rest on the nature of the work. The details of which has not changed since I first decided to do the Majestic Wilderlands and the Wilderlands of High Fantasy products. As for the licensees one has a restrictive use of the royalty like Frog God Games. Or has negotiated a restricted use of royalty for a single project like Goodman Games.
My waiver and overall license have a limited time to run and I assume the other licensee are likewise limited in time as well. So at some point either the license or royalty situation will change. For myself, the end of the royalty or license is when I will take down my Judges Guild listings. Hopefully by that point I will have enough of my own works listed to keep sales going. I publish in the time I have for a hobby so it can be a challenge some months.
Judge's Guild FB page just posted a statement by Bob Bledsaw II https://www.facebook.com/judgesguild/posts/3072606892751913?__xts__
Being me, I had to comment.
Quote from: Brendan;1122519Judge's Guild FB page just posted a statement by Bob Bledsaw II https://www.facebook.com/judgesguild/posts/3072606892751913?__xts__
Being me, I had to comment.
Archive for fellow facebook haters: http://archive.is/bbD9w
Bob has now deleted all the critical comments.
Quote from: Brendan;1122530Bob has now deleted all the critical comments.
Didn't he say in his post that he believes in free speech?
Quote from: Brendan;1122519Judge's Guild FB page just posted a statement by Bob Bledsaw II https://www.facebook.com/judgesguild/posts/3072606892751913?__xts__
I Have Traditional Christian values. My family crest attests to 3 European Crusades, and I regard that as a calling...Well, that was something.
Greetings!
It always amuses me that the CEO'S of Mobile Oil, or Lockheed Martin never speak like Bledslaw in public. THOSE businessmen handle themselves entirely different from what I've seen. Bledslaw II must have failed Business 101 in college. It is sad that so many people are affected by the idiocy, hate, and stupidity of one man.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Bledsaw III, judging by his twitter feed, appears to have fallen in with the "alt-west" offshoot of the alt-right - which sees western civilization as being entirely bounded by the rule of an idealized Catholic Christianity, absent messy historical facts or actual Christian teachings. I suspect that he may be partially responsible for Bledsaw IIs slide down the rabbit hole of racist insanity. Many of the phrases in this non-apology: pride in being "a Crusader", claiming his beliefs are simply "Traditionalist Christian", not believing in "Judeo-Christianity", etc are among their talking points.
Quote from: wmarshal;1122503I have a few older relatives (in their 70s now) that occasionally use jew as a verb in that since. While I wouldn't call them Nazis, their casual anti-Semitism wigs me out.
Yeah several years ago one of the developers for the PC game mod Natural Selection that went on to become its own little game later. I used to talk to them regularly and just out of the blue he freaked out when I disagreed with one of his statements and started screaming "You JEW! You filthy JEW!" and I cut all ties with them and their company since. And they've been caught stealing assets from other companies games and using them in their own. So was a good decision in the end.
Quote from: Brendan;1122508Hey wmarshal. The kind of old person casual racism you describe doesn't really bug me, provided that's as far as it goes. There's a big difference between a crotchety old grandpa who says some cringe worthy things about [insert stereotype here] behind closed doors, but otherwise treats more or less everyone with courtesy and respect, and Bledsaw's blatant and political racism and antisemitism.
Pretty much describes my dad. He tosses around stuff like that. But on the flip side treats everyone with respect. Unless you are shooting at him. I think at least in my dads case when hes using one of these terms hes aiming it at the bad eggs in the bunch. Effectively bad people dont deserve any respect.
Conversely my grandmother had a notable dislike for Gypsies. Because they regularly came through town and robbed people while pretending to be looking for work. Bad first impressions can leave a lasting mark unfortunately.
I posted my response to Mr. Bledsaw's statement (https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2020/02/concerning-judges-guild-further.html).
I still will not do business with Judges Guild in the future. My Judges Guild products are gone once the royalties equal what I am due from the CSIO KS.
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122523Archive for fellow facebook haters: http://archive.is/bbD9w
Just found out today that FuckYouBook has for the second time now out of the blue disabled my account for "violations". Considering I have not used the account in like 2 years now and even then was not using it for much this is again pretty damn suspect. Moreso because the first time I'd barely had the account a week and hardly even used it before they disabled it. Im not going through that again.
Quote from: SHARK;1122539Greetings!
It always amuses me that the CEO'S of Mobile Oil, or Lockheed Martin never speak like Bledslaw in public. THOSE businessmen handle themselves entirely different from what I've seen. Bledslaw II must have failed Business 101 in college. It is sad that so many people are affected by the idiocy, hate, and stupidity of one man.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Youve missed various WOTC staff making fools of themselves over the last 5 years.
Quote from: Omega;1122551Youve missed various WOTC staff making fools of themselves over the last 5 years.
Haven't the WotC folk generally been speaking from within the bubbles of both their location and their segment of the hobby, though? Bledsaw's ideas seem to be almost universally reviled, and rightly so.
Quote from: Omega;1122551Youve missed various WOTC staff making fools of themselves over the last 5 years.
Greetings!
Well, perhaps. Maybe it is a dinosaur like maxim from a bygone day, but I seem to recall a time when company owners and ceo's carefully avoided speaking on any controversial topic, even personal things--especially personal things--and specifically avoided commenting in any way on politics or religion.
From such a philosophy, Bledslaw's Facebook rantings are pure stupidity and corporate suicide. That's why professional companies the owners and ceo's rarely, if ever say much of anything. They have spokesmen, marketing, and public relations people do all their talking for them. That way companies stay in business, and individual ceo's that might hold loony, jackass ideas just stay on the golf course and collect their checks.
I imagine--or hope so, anyways!--that everyone involved with Judges Guild must be screaming nine ways to Sunday about their moron, anti-Semitic, racist loon of a ceo.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Goodman Games has posted a followup statement to yesterday's video. (https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/02/18/a-statement-on-judges-guild/) This one is a written statement.
TL;DR: Goodman has taken down all existing JG products from their online store and ceased selling them through other channels. They're still doing the Deluxe Collector's Edition vol. 2 and it's the last JG title they're going to release. Racism, antisemitism and BB Jr. are still bad.
I can't believe that Bledsaw doesn't think Dutch people are white.
My 23&me lists me as 99.8% Northwestern European and my mother (and at least five generations of her family that we know of) were all Dutch.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121679Well, he got everyone's attention. *golf clap*
Honestly I'd never heard of the guy till Bill told me about this today.
A middle-aged white guy said something offensive.
*shrug*.
Now, where is this Jewsmedia? I'd like some free publicity for my business, why don't they help a fellow Jew out? Some fucking conspiracy this is!
Quote from: sureshot;1122479To no one surprise our not so favoured wide eyed sociopath Jessica Price is claiming that Bob Senior was allegedly racist and anti-Semitic. I guess she stopped being relevant or just wanted attention. It's Over at TBP on page 29 of a similar thread like this one post # 286
Will even other SJWs believe her at this point?
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122523Archive for fellow facebook haters: http://archive.is/bbD9w
Jesus Christ, what a crock of shit.
No one was going after him for "pro-life" posts. They were going after him for holocaust denial and calls to "make america white again".
And claiming you follow the golden rule after the kind of posts he made requires a ridiculous level of gall.
Quote from: S'mon;1122535I Have Traditional Christian values. My family crest attests to 3 European Crusades, and I regard that as a calling...
Well, that was something.
I can trace my family line back to the 1400s and they were fighting Turks for centuries. Somehow that never drove me to make anti-semitic posts or jokes about slavery.
Have we all maxed out our Virtue stat yet? Or can we wag our fingers at the Bledsaws some more for a few extra points?
Somehow I imagine that if Bledsaw was a leftist who hated Christians and white people this entire panty-bunching would have played out differently.
And Kyle, you are jewing all wrong if you can't get free publicity for your gym! I know a guy who does pistol training in LA and he networks heavily through all the local temples. He was an IDF trainer and does great selling self-protection gun training, even for bar mitzvahs and special classes for the elderly. I'm sure you can sell Jewish fitness too. It's like regular fitness, but with more kvetching.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122585Have we all maxed out our Virtue stat yet? Or can we wag our fingers at the Bledsaws some more for a few extra points?
Me, I don't care. Like I said, I'd never heard of the guy. All I can say is his family obviously has too many Bobs. Naming your son after yourself is extraordinarily vain in a bourgeois way. Has he written anything worthwhile I can buy?
QuoteAnd Kyle, you are jewing all wrong if you can't get free publicity for your gym! I know a guy who does pistol training in LA and he networks heavily through all the local temples. He was an IDF trainer and does great selling self-protection gun training, even for bar mitzvahs and special classes for the elderly. I'm sure you can sell Jewish fitness too. It's like regular fitness, but with more kvetching.
Oy. We have this IDF krav maga trainer here in Melbourne, Avi Yemini, who has embarrassed himself by associating with (https://www.ajds.org.au/2018/06/avi-yemini-consorts-nazis/)... neo-nazis. "W...T...F?" I hear you ask plaintively. Well, he's trying to find common ground with them, "hey guys, we
both hate Moslems!" Like many of his neo-nazi buddies, he's been convicted of assaulting a girlfriend (https://www.thejc.com/news/world/avi-yemini-jewish-spokesperson-for-tommy-robinson-convicted-of-assault-against-former-wife-1.486946). In the city the State Library yard is a common place for protests (it's just across the road from a university), at a protest let's say in favour of refugees, you'll get 450 leftie students then 12 neo-nazis and Yemini, the latter protectively surrounded by about 30 police. You say "jewish fitness", and I think of that guy. Please no.
You don't need to be Jewish to whinge endlessly between sets. It's a significant part of every session at my gym.
Now back to the important stuff: gaming! Has this fuckstick who yearns for the Crusades, where brave Christian knights massacred unarmed civilians, written any good stuff I need to buy to help along my AD&D1e or Classic Traveller games? I mean, so long as he's not anything
truly morally reprehensible like a storygamer.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1122584I can trace my family line back to the 1400s and they were fighting Turks for centuries. Somehow that never drove me to make anti-semitic posts or jokes about slavery.
I guess you don't regard crusading vs the Turks as a family calling then!
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1122564I can't believe that Bledsaw doesn't think Dutch people are white.
My 23&me lists me as 99.8% Northwestern European and my mother (and at least five generations of her family that we know of) were all Dutch.
I read his comment and maybe he meant something else..? Because that is a truly bizarre thing to say. If Dutch and Romanians aren't "white", then essentially what he's saying is that "white" is a meaningless construct. My fraternal side was Dutch Jews who intermingled with Indians, and my maternal is mostly Irish, so I guess according to his logic I'm not "white"? Until my tribal application is complete I can just say I am, Mr. Bledsaw!
This whole identity politics thing is so confusing...
Quote from: Brad;1122606I read his comment and maybe he meant something else..? Because that is a truly bizarre thing to say. If Dutch and Romanians aren't "white", then essentially what he's saying is that "white" is a meaningless construct. My fraternal side was Dutch Jews who intermingled with Indians, and my maternal is mostly Irish, so I guess according to his logic I'm not "white"? Until my tribal application is complete I can just say I am, Mr. Bledsaw!
This whole identity politics thing is so confusing...
Yeah. It's hard to know exactly what he means. If he means to say that Dutch and Romanians aren't "white" then I have no idea what he thinks "white" IS. He also seems to think that the Bible was originally written in Aramaic not Hebrew, and implies that this is fact because "that's what Jesus spoke". Does he think Jesus wrote the Torah? Is he just trying to spin so hard it's coming out as nonsense? It's hard to know where the bigotry ends and the straight up crazy begins.
Quote from: Brendan;1122611Yeah. It's hard to know exactly what he means. If he means to say that Dutch and Romanians aren't "white" then I have no idea what he thinks "white" IS. He also seems to think that the Bible was originally written in Aramaic not Hebrew, and implies that this is fact because "that's what Jesus spoke". Does he think Jesus wrote the Torah? Is he just trying to spin so hard it's coming out as nonsense? It's hard to know where the bigotry ends and the straight up crazy begins.
Look, we all speak French and German here, we're not writing anything in Latin!
At this point, I'd say he's just delusional.
Well, the TBP thread is locked, with a parting moderator shot "well, glad I have my copy of Caverns of Thracia"... On top of people basically saying it's a bummer but the right thing to do to bury tainted IP... But I've got mine...
I'd actually respect the person who said "this IP should be buried because it's tainted and any celebration of it somehow supports the evil baddies, and in support of this I've burned my copies" more than the person who calls for the IP to be buried but is happy to keep their copies.
I'm glad I have copies of everything I want, but I hope someone figures out a way to get the IP away from the Bledsaws so that it can be made available to all again.
I wonder how much increase in traffic certain sites are going to see...
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122585I'm sure you can sell Jewish fitness too. It's like regular fitness, but with more kvetching.
If my small circle of Jewish friends is in any way representative of Judaism in Los Angeles...which it probably is not...then Jewish fitness is about getting some exercise in January out of guilt and then forgetting about it and vacillating between overeating and dieting the rest of the year until you finally give up entirely some time around October.
[I did like the phrase "jewing all wrong". That made me laugh. I like the adjective.]
Quote from: Brad;1122606I read his comment and maybe he meant something else..? Because that is a truly bizarre thing to say. If Dutch and Romanians aren't "white", then essentially what he's saying is that "white" is a meaningless construct. My fraternal side was Dutch Jews who intermingled with Indians, and my maternal is mostly Irish, so I guess according to his logic I'm not "white"? Until my tribal application is complete I can just say I am, Mr. Bledsaw!
This whole identity politics thing is so confusing...
So, you're saying one side of your family can cook?
Quote from: Brendan;1122611Yeah. It's hard to know exactly what he means. If he means to say that Dutch and Romanians aren't "white" then I have no idea what he thinks "white" IS. He also seems to think that the Bible was originally written in Aramaic not Hebrew, and implies that this is fact because "that's what Jesus spoke". Does he think Jesus wrote the Torah? Is he just trying to spin so hard it's coming out as nonsense? It's hard to know where the bigotry ends and the straight up crazy begins.
The New Testament was written in Aramaic and Greek. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. I suspect that's what drives this part of his argument. It still doesn't make much sense, but there you go. It does give a wedge issue for people to draw distinction between Jewish and Christian parts of the text, I supposed.
Quote from: ffilz;1122616Well, the TBP thread is locked, with a parting moderator shot "well, glad I have my copy of Caverns of Thracia"... On top of people basically saying it's a bummer but the right thing to do to bury tainted IP... But I've got mine...
I'd actually respect the person who said "this IP should be buried because it's tainted and any celebration of it somehow supports the evil baddies, and in support of this I've burned my copies" more than the person who calls for the IP to be buried but is happy to keep their copies.
I'm glad I have copies of everything I want, but I hope someone figures out a way to get the IP away from the Bledsaws so that it can be made available to all again.
I wonder how much increase in traffic certain sites are going to see...
Yeah, I saw that and felt the same about it. As I said over there, I'd like for the IP to get in someone else's hands. I never owned the original Judges Guild materials and so don't have that strong of draw to them, but I'd like for them to be out there for other people. I might even get in another "early D&D" mindset and try running them at some point.
Quote from: RMS;1122629The New Testament was written in Aramaic and Greek. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. I suspect that's what drives this part of his argument. It still doesn't make much sense, but there you go. It does give a wedge issue for people to draw distinction between Jewish and Christian parts of the text, I supposed.
Sure, but that's the point. It's like he learned one fact and then extrapolated a bunch of stuff that makes no sense. When challenged on this he stated that "Aramaic is a real language" which was not in question. Honestly, I think Brad is right and his brain has just melted.
Quote from: Brendan;1122508Hey wmarshal. The kind of old person casual racism you describe doesn't really bug me, provided that's as far as it goes. There's a big difference between a crotchety old grandpa who says some cringe worthy things about [insert stereotype here] behind closed doors, but otherwise treats more or less everyone with courtesy and respect, and Bledsaw's blatant and political racism and antisemitism. Can one morph into the other? Sure, but I think the line is a lot firmer than many think, and Bledsaw II is most definitely over it.
Regarding your sister... yeah, that's very annoying. If you're interested in a good counter argument to the "evil oppressor" BDS propaganda, check out Robert Spencer's "The Palestine Delusion" https://www.amazon.com/Palestinian-Delusion-Catastrophic-History-Process/dp/164293254X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+palestine+delusion&link_code=qs&qid=1582047444&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-1. I'm listening to it on Audible right now. Good stuff.
I agree that casual old person racism isn't the same as nazism, but I still find it pretty terrible. It can often signal to others that racism is ok, and if the low-grade racism of the grandparents is ok, why not try out the h "premium" racism. It can also lead to habits that make further racism more likely to be picked up by the younger generation that picks up on it.
One of my grandmothers had a nickname for chocolate creme drops. She's call them "n-toes", but spell out the "n". When I was 4 or 5 I saw some chocolate creme drops at a store and I told my mom "Look, they have n-toes", at which my point my mom told me in no uncertain terms that I was to never use that word. At that age I had no idea what the n-word meant, but if my mom didn't stop me strongly right then and there, but let me continue to use that word in a casual way I think it's a possibility that I'd still use that word into adulthood. I credit my dad having a military career which moved them throughout the country with helping to break the casual racism that was running in the family. It sounds to me that Bob I's casual racism metastasized into neo-nazism in II and III.
(To be clear I'm not suggesting the n-word should be banned everywhere. It can have a place literature/art, but using it to express one's own racism wouldn't fit into being literature/art. I don't want to see Mark Twain banned, but I'm glad my parents banned me from using the word.)
I may look up your Audible suggestion.
Quote from: wmarshal;1122633One of my grandmothers had a nickname for chocolate creme drops. She's call them "n-toes", but spell out the "n".
Interesting. I heard that term for Brazil Nuts when I was a kid. I've never used it. However, the casual use of that racial slur in mainstream white society happened on a regular basis when I was a child, not in reference to real people but more as a holdover term like this example.
The so-awful-it-hurts thread on rpg.net just shows us how far they're willing to go. The language used, such as "nazi propaganda" suggests that if they were in charge, there'd be a gulag in every city and guillotine on every street corner.
It helped to inspire this blog post: https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2020/02/greetings-comrades-of-inclusive.html
It's really long. So, forgive the link-dropping, rather than copy/paste. But here's a taste...
QuoteGreetings, comrades of Inclusive Intersectional Compassion.
Let us begin with a resistance-prayer: The State is our community... where we all meet, where we all matter. Social Justice for all!
My name is of no importance. Obviously, my race, sexual preferences, and gender identity are incredibly important; however, the people of 2020 cannot be trusted with such vital information. #GET_WOKE_OR_DIE_BROKE, as we say. Irregardless, I have a message from 5 years in the future. I'm a time traveler from 2025, and wanted to give you a snap-shot of the world.
Enjoy,
VS
If anyone here isn't familiar with Judges Guild, here's the thumbnail.
I'm a JG fan and I love what they contributed to the hobby. BUT from the "is it useful at the game table?" perspective, JG was a mixed mess of goodness and meh even back in the day. Today, you can do better from the OSR if you are looking for stuff for your campaign. And that's because the OSR learned from JG and built upon their legacy. The lasting value of JG is the groundwork the company laid down in the early days of the hobby and if you're interested into delving into that era, then JG stuff is your go-to for research.
Quote from: Brad;1122606If Dutch and Romanians aren't "white", then essentially what he's saying is that "white" is a meaningless construct.
"White" is a meaningless construct! Almost as dumb as "people of color". I'm supposed to believe that if a Nigerian, a Guatemalan and a Tibetan hang out, they have some kind of universal mind-meld against all honkies? That's A-grade dumb.
It's all idiot tribalism where morons try to decide who is IN and who is OUT of their little club.
Trying to make sense of Bledsaw 2: Retarded Boogaloo is just as useful as trying to figure out Louis Farrakhan's wackass nonsense. Clearly Bledsaw 2 needs to spend less time online and more time preparing his defenses against Farrakhan's UFOs waiting off Alaska for the command to kill all the honkies and hymies.
Quote from: RMS;1122635Interesting. I heard that term for Brazil Nuts when I was a kid.
Well, that's what they're called in some places...EVERYONE called them that when I was a kid, even all the black people. I didn't even know that was a racial slur until I was in high school, serious.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122642If anyone here isn't familiar with Judges Guild, here's the thumbnail.
I'm a JG fan and I love what they contributed to the hobby. BUT from the "is it useful at the game table?" perspective, JG was a mixed mess of goodness and meh even back in the day. Today, you can do better from the OSR if you are looking for stuff for your campaign. And that's because the OSR learned from JG and built upon their legacy. The lasting value of JG is the groundwork the company laid down in the early days of the hobby and if you're interested into delving into that era, then JG stuff is your go-to for research.
In terms of the specific type of setting niche that Wilderlands fills, what other setting written by another company fills that type of niche better?
Quote from: Mistwell;1122655In terms of the specific type of setting niche that Wilderlands fills, what other setting written by another company fills that type of niche better?
That's a good question.
This was one of the very best of the original D&D settings, ...one of my very favorites, and I have the complete campaign setting minus just a few splatbooks, book of treasures II & II, and Installment K and L. however it is not something I feel I want to promote, or run anymore.
I have my homebrew campaigns to run, and I suppose I could run
Blackmoor. Everything in
Blackmoor is small compared to the
Wilderlands, all the maps and supplements for
Blackmoor cover less than 25% of the published
Wilderlands. Could run
Mystara or Bruce Heards new campaign setting
Calidar, Maybe
Forgotten Realms would be good. I'd have to convert that to 0D&D though.
Quote from: Mistwell;1122655In terms of the specific type of setting niche that Wilderlands fills, what other setting written by another company fills that type of niche better?
The Wilderlands is pretty only major setting in it niche. A setting with extensive maps with lots of local level detail without much in the way of high level details. Nominally the three city states have a Swords & Sorcery 70s vibe but only City State of the World Emperor has anything like a region supplement.
So you could take it at face value run at a S&S somewhat gonzo setting, or you go do what I did and something more like Game of Thrones. The other Wilderlands referee had their own spin on it. Much of which you can see in the Necromancer Game Boxed Set. Which is basically the work of twelve author with a liberal dose of additional Bob Bledsaw Senior material that didn't make into the original.
I did the village and castles of CSIO, Barbarian Altanis and the mainland section of the Isle of the Blest. The Isle of the Blest was done differently by another author the same with the other region. The lairs and ruins of the forementioned maps were done by another author.
The way to make a better Wilderlands is to present it in smaller chunks that hang together
loosely with the state line entries like villages getting some text. And a sentence or two added to ruins and islands to make them more a idea kernel rather than just a seed. Basically what I did with Blackmarsh only done systematically across a larger geographic region.
Half of this thread has nothing at all to do with gaming.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1122660Half of this thread has nothing at all to do with gaming.
- Ed C.
Glass half empty kinda guy?
Greetings!
The thread is about news and discussion of a significant figure and publisher within the game industry, as well as historically meaningful.
Pundit himself has contributed to the extensive discussion in this thread. That should put the breaks on anyone seeking to whine about the content of the discussion. For many pages, now, the discussion has remained very focused and on-topic. Bledslaw II, III, Bledslaw Sr, The Wilderlands, and Judges Guild as a company and publisher. In addition, we have various members here that are contributing authors and creators of works published by and through Judges Guild, which is also entirely relevant.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122642If anyone here isn't familiar with Judges Guild, here's the thumbnail.
I'm a JG fan and I love what they contributed to the hobby. BUT from the "is it useful at the game table?" perspective, JG was a mixed mess of goodness and meh even back in the day. Today, you can do better from the OSR if you are looking for stuff for your campaign. And that's because the OSR learned from JG and built upon their legacy. The lasting value of JG is the groundwork the company laid down in the early days of the hobby and if you're interested into delving into that era, then JG stuff is your go-to for research.
I really like the Wilderlands because it is just detailed enough - they have the landmass drawn, rivers and mountains and forests placed and named, towns laid out. Maybe a sentence or two about what is in a given hex, and after that you are on your own to fill in the gaps. Move-in ready.
And for a new Dungeon Master back in the day - I needed that. I was one of those guys who started out thinking you needed everything set down on paper, everything named and ready to go before the campaign started. Now, not so much. But it was sure a help and an inspiration.
Quote from: Mistwell;1122655In terms of the specific type of setting niche that Wilderlands fills, what other setting written by another company fills that type of niche better?
Another option that is very Wilderlands inspired is Melan's work (I'm not sure what he calls his setting, Fomalhaut?).
Quote from: Mistwell;1122655In terms of the specific type of setting niche that Wilderlands fills, what other setting written by another company fills that type of niche better?
I'm not that familiar with it, but would Harnworld fit the bill?
Quote from: ffilz;1122616I'm glad I have copies of everything I want, but I hope someone figures out a way to get the IP away from the Bledsaws so that it can be made available to all again.
I had hopes this was where Goodman Games was heading, but it doesn't sound like it. I guess it's down to how much the IP would be worth to another buyer vs. how much it's worth to BBII, if he's willing to let it go at all. As others have said, it's a mixed bag. The Traveller books are in FFE's hands, anyway, not sure what the legal status of the RuneQuest books would be, so that basically leaves the D&D stuff for the OSR. Financially probably not very attractive, so it would probably be more for the sake of preserving something historic - and that stuff is not going away, anyway.
There's no doubt Judges Guild put out a ready-made campaign world that was great for the hobby in the 70s, and its eminently playable today. I love the City State of the Invincible Overlord and I've run multiple campaigns based in Modron. BUT as it was the first of its kind, its got all the ups and downs of being the first of its kind. I can't speak for the later releases. All my JG stuff is originals from the Paleozoic.
Maybe its me, but having played in Wilderlands, Faerun and Greyhawk campaigns, I greatly prefer playing in homebrew campaigns. So my personal answer to what setting is better than JG's is the one YOU create.
Quote from: Koltar;1122660Half of this thread has nothing at all to do with gaming.
We're never gonna max out our 18/00 Virtue stat with that attitude bucko!
Now start posting how you hate every Bledsaw in history or you're yet another Naughty Nougat Neo-Nutzi!!!
Quote from: Koltar;1122660Half of this thread has nothing at all to do with gaming.
- Ed C.
At 50%, that still means the signal-to-noise ratio is acceptably high.
Quote from: Mistwell;1122655In terms of the specific type of setting niche that Wilderlands fills, what other setting written by another company fills that type of niche better?
Primeval Thule is not hexed, but it does have a ton of low level detail such that you can begin a canpaign anywhere on the map and find cool stuff to do. It is much more coherent and less Gonzo than Wilderlands, with a tight swords and sorcery focus. Since Jan 2019 it has become my default setting, though I still use Forgotten Realms for high fantasy.
Quote from: Vile;1122669I'm not that familiar with it, but would Harnworld fit the bill?
Having run Cold Iron in Harn in the 80s (before Harnmaster was even published), I can say that Harn would not really be a good fit for D&D. As my Cold Iron campaign started to end, and more Harn material was published, it was clear that Harn is a much lower magic setting than a D&D-like game implies.
QuoteI had hopes this was where Goodman Games was heading, but it doesn't sound like it. I guess it's down to how much the IP would be worth to another buyer vs. how much it's worth to BBII, if he's willing to let it go at all. As others have said, it's a mixed bag. The Traveller books are in FFE's hands, anyway, not sure what the legal status of the RuneQuest books would be, so that basically leaves the D&D stuff for the OSR. Financially probably not very attractive, so it would probably be more for the sake of preserving something historic - and that stuff is not going away, anyway.
Hmm, but is the Traveller stuff safe from the pitchfork and torch wielding crowd? And does FFE have it royalty free (or is any royalties going to the original authors)?
I suspect the RQ stuff is gone, unless somehow Jenell gets her creations from Bob II, which is a shame because Legendary Duck Tower and Hellpits of Nightfang are good modules for folks wanting to go back to the Glorantha of the early days (80s if not even early 80s). Duck Pond, City of Lei Tabor, and Broken Tree Inn are less important pieces (though I thought I saw something that Broken Tree Inn was supposed to be part of Snake Pipe Hollow).
Quote from: RMS;1122629The New Testament was written in Aramaic and Greek. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. I suspect that's what drives this part of his argument. It still doesn't make much sense, but there you go. It does give a wedge issue for people to draw distinction between Jewish and Christian parts of the text, I supposed.
Parts of the Old Testament were written in Aramaic or Greek as well, but those are the parts that Protestants and modern Jews tend not to include as inspired Scripture. If Bledsaw's Catholic, he's in opposition to the teaching of the Church, which has affirmed the Jewishness of Christ and stated things like "Spiritually, we are all Semites." (Pope Pius XI)
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122523Archive for fellow facebook haters: http://archive.is/bbD9w
Book of Moses? Is it that he can't remember Exodus or is he a fan of Joseph Smith?
Quote from: ffilz;1122680Having run Cold Iron in Harn in the 80s (before Harnmaster was even published), I can say that Harn would not really be a good fit for D&D.
I found OD&D plus a little of Greyhawk works OK. I have notes for a S&W Harn ruleset basically reworking the magic user and cleric. In a manner similar to what Adventure in Middle Earth did with 5e.
Quote from: Vile;1122669I'm not that familiar with it, but would Harnworld fit the bill?
As a fan of Harnworld as well, I would have to say no. Harnworld even with just the original release had a low fantasy medieval vibe. While the original Wilderlands was a lot of everything thrown in.
The detailed Harn modules just reinforced this feel. However Harn does make a great resource for the Wilderlands by giving you fleshed out locales to plug in.
Quote from: estar;1122687I found OD&D plus a little of Greyhawk works OK. I have notes for a S&W Harn ruleset basically reworking the magic user and cleric. In a manner similar to what Adventure in Middle Earth did with 5e.
Yea, maybe that would work better. Some of the source material still made me feel the frequency of PC magic users and the power they could attain was out of alignment with the setting.
But that's a challenge, anything trying to look like a Medieval Europe is going to have some challenge with the magic of D&D. In a less serious setting, I can ignore the dissonance, but it became too hard for me for Harn, and soon my Harn stuff went into the for sale bin...
On the other hand, GURPS or Fantasy Hero could be bent into a nice rules set for playing in Harn if one didn't want to play Harnmaster.
Quote from: estar;1122688As a fan of Harnworld as well, I would have to say no. Harnworld even with just the original release had a low fantasy medieval vibe. While the original Wilderlands was a lot of everything thrown in.
The detailed Harn modules just reinforced this feel. However Harn does make a great resource for the Wilderlands by giving you fleshed out locales to plug in.
Yea, that's the biggest thing the newer settings have is less kitchen sink. A thought that has been percolating is also that the non-polished look of Wilderlands (kitchen sink, limited political entities beyond settlements) may leave a GM thinking, "Hey, I could manage a setting like that." While Harn might leave a GM thinking "I can never build a setting like that."
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122673We're never gonna max out our 18/00 Virtue stat with that attitude bucko!
Now start posting how you hate every Bledsaw in history or you're yet another Naughty Nougat Neo-Nutzi!!!
Hey man, I was wondering from your earlier post -- you have a point that there's a shallowness to condemning Bledsaw, especially in the age of public self-serving self-righteousness, and especially in lieu of actually righteous deeds.
What should we do, though?
I'm genuinely curious -- I'd love to believe it's not as bad as it seems.
I try to keep a very short list of things that I believe are actually evil, to make sure that my reactions are proportionate. Attacking people based on a genetic roll of the dice has long since made the short list, for me.
Cheers
I think theres a difference between mocking SJWs who attack anyone for anything they can hallucinate today. As opposed to Bledshaw who is doing something blatantly damaging to the company and IP.
But at the end of the day both are getting treated equally. As raving morons harmfull to gaming in one way or another.
Still the question is what cause this surge from Bledsaw? One suggested Bledsaw 3 as a possible negative influence.
Quote from: Omega;1122719Still the question is what cause this surge from Bledsaw?
He probably mouthed off a bit once, got called on it, and this provoked him into yet more mouthing off.
My demographic of middle-aged white guys are a sensitive bunch. The more manly, the more butthurt.
Quote from: ffilz;1122680I suspect the RQ stuff is gone, unless somehow Jenell gets her creations from Bob II, which is a shame because Legendary Duck Tower and Hellpits of Nightfang are good modules for folks wanting to go back to the Glorantha of the early days (80s if not even early 80s). Duck Pond, City of Lei Tabor, and Broken Tree Inn are less important pieces (though I thought I saw something that Broken Tree Inn was supposed to be part of Snake Pipe Hollow).
We played all of those RQ adventures back in the day. Duck Tower was especially fun.
RQ2 was very Glorantha-lite compared to later editions, and the JG stuff was more generic D100 fantasy than fitting the Glorantha canon.
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122713What should we do, though?
Everyone has to answer that for themselves. We all draw the line at different points.
My personal answer is to continue enjoying the original JG products, and if my collection is missing anything, pick it up 2nd hand.
But I'm also going to mock the fuck out of the virtue dogpile.
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122713I try to keep a very short list of things that I believe are actually evil, to make sure that my reactions are proportionate. Attacking people based on a genetic roll of the dice has long since made the short list, for me.
For me, evil has to be actions, not words, especially not social media idiot babblings.
Humans are tribal. People like their own kind (and in the USA, that's actually more class than race). It's why segregation on college campuses are called "progressive" now. I can't be surprised when people yell out ''My Team Good, Other Team Bad" because that's basic to the species. Should we be beyond skin color? Of course, but we're not.
For me, the surprise with Bledsaw is not his beliefs, but his total idiocy in spewing them online when he's trying to make money in 2020. Plenty of people have horrid beliefs, but most know to shut their piehole online lest it affect their bottom line.
The clown could have posted the same shit (and way worse) under an alias and none of this drama would have happened.
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122713What should we do, though?
I was going to buy some of this Coleslaw guy's stuff, if any of it is any good. Nobody's made suggestions, though.
But that's me, I'd play Myaforg if it were any good. I am indifferent to how much of an arsehole the authour is. If we don't buy shit games even when the authour is a lovely person, I don't see why we should refrain from buying them when they're not a lovely person.
I mean, it's not like the funds are going to pay for Zyklon B. They're just going to a grumpy old fat white guy, but that's true of most game companies.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122726Everyone has to answer that for themselves. We all draw the line at different points.
My personal answer is to continue enjoying the original JG products, and if my collection is missing anything, pick it up 2nd hand.
But I'm also going to mock the fuck out of the virtue dogpile.
My thoughts exactly. It's almost funny to see all the useful idiots tripping over each other to show how virtuous they are. If you're going to do something, do it. You don't need to broadcast what a great person you are unless you need others' validation.
Quote from: The Spaniard;1122749My thoughts exactly. It's almost funny to see all the useful idiots tripping over each other to show how virtuous they are. If you're going to do something, do it. You don't need to broadcast what a great person you are unless you need others' validation.
How is your post not another form of you virtue signaling?
Quote from: Mistwell;1122752How is your post not another form of you virtue signaling?
How is this post not a form of virtue signaling?
And mine!
OH SHIT!!!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122726Everyone has to answer that for themselves. We all draw the line at different points.
My personal answer is to continue enjoying the original JG products, and if my collection is missing anything, pick it up 2nd hand.
But I'm also going to mock the fuck out of the virtue dogpile.
Do you think there's any value in denouncing this behavior, e.g. by people who care about the OSR and want to defend it? Or it's so irrelevant and unimpactful (e.g. words vs. deeds) that it should be ignored or mocked at worst?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122726For me, evil has to be actions, not words, especially not social media idiot babblings.
Humans are tribal. People like their own kind (and in the USA, that's actually more class than race). It's why segregation on college campuses are called "progressive" now. I can't be surprised when people yell out ''My Team Good, Other Team Bad" because that's basic to the species. Should we be beyond skin color? Of course, but we're not.
For me, the surprise with Bledsaw is not his beliefs, but his total idiocy in spewing them online when he's trying to make money in 2020. Plenty of people have horrid beliefs, but most know to shut their piehole online lest it affect their bottom line.
The clown could have posted the same shit (and way worse) under an alias and none of this drama would have happened.
True, especially the bit about tribalism. It's telling how deep and weird this rabbit hole has gotten that the words/deeds divide was pretty far from my mind, even though I care a lot about the freedom of words. Grim and Venger made a point about livelihood loss too that surprised me in a similar way. I guess my takeaway from this is that mobbing has become so commonplace that I treat it as normal and try to put boundaries on how unreasonable the mobbing is, rather than continuing to push back on the idea that it should happen at all. Scary.
Good points, Spinachcat, thanks for your thoughts.
This was not a maybe situation. Nor was it based on a single post or something that happen over a short period of time. After the discovery of additional posts and my conversation with Mr. Bledsaw, it was clear I was doing business with a person who was a true believer in his bigotry. I acted in accordance with my conscience. Which was to tell him that I would be no longer be doing business with Judges Guild in the future, that I would notify the other licensees of what I found lest they be blindsided.
For many hours afterward and briefly a few days ago, anybody could see what I saw first hand. While they didn't have the benefit of conversing with Mr. Bledsaw, more public posts were found deeper within Mr. Bledsaw timeline. Posts that were worse than what I uncovered. Then Mr. Bledsaw put up his own response a few days which gave readers a glimpse into the conversation I had. The main difference, mine touched on our personal relationship and focused only on the anti-semitic post I found. It wasn't as wide ranging as Mr. Bledsaw's public response.
I knew that in informing the licensees that it would go public and it did. Thus I also posted as I am noted professionally for being a Judges Guild licensee.
From what I observed in following days when individuals talked about the specifics they overwhelmingly reached the same conclusions I have. Which was they no longer wish to do any type of business with Mr. Bledsaw.
Quote from: estar;1122759This was not a maybe situation. Nor was it based on a single post or something that happen over a short period of time. After the discovery of additional posts and my conversation with Mr. Bledsaw, it was clear I was doing business with a person who was a true believer in his bigotry.
Question that popped up on another fora on this subject.
Before all this were there any indicators of trouble? I get the impression that businesswise there was no hint of this so it pretty much hit alot of folk who worked with Bledsaw II as a surprise?
So will Traveller be next on the hit list of death by association? I have an oooold Traveller booklet and it lists as the writers Bill and Pixie Bledsaw? It is not a Judges Guild product. But we all know how these purity death spirals tend to play out.
Quote from: Omega;1122769Question that popped up on another fora on this subject.
Before all this were there any indicators of trouble? I get the impression that businesswise there was no hint of this so it pretty much hit alot of folk who worked with Bledsaw II as a surprise?
That is a good question. I can't speak for the other people who worked with Mr. Bledsaw however for me he was always polite and cordial throughout the ten+ years we been talking over the internet or phone. I knew that he was generally pro-Republican from what popped up on my feed. So I deliberately avoided talking politics, especially because I was relatively small fish in terms of being a licensee. He gave me a license instead of paying me for the map CSSK and it was a pretty big ask at the time. So I avoided any mention of politics or religions. I knew from his post in the wake of his father's death that he was pretty religious as well. There other things that popped up from his feed but nothing stood out.
So when the one popped up I started looking. I looked some more after my post to see how I missed it. The answer is because they are interspersed infrequently enough between his regular political, family, and other posts. That until that Saturday they didn't pop up on my feed. Then quantum dice rolled, one popped up and that was that. Then the events unfolded as I described in my statement and in previous posts here.
So that what happened to me. In general I would say for somebody else to be aware of what going on they would have actively browse his timeline. Maybe go back a few pages.
I will say that his son Robert Bledsaw III timeline was odd for me. I distinctly remember browsing it during the kickstarter before the debacle. For example he had a post looking at my maps with his baby. Then when I started reading about how RB3 timeline was a dumpster fire I went on and it was a completely different place filled with political and bigoted post that weren't there before. Way worse than his father's timeline.
Quote from: estar;1122772That is a good question. I can't speak for the other people who worked with Mr. Bledsaw however for me he was always polite and cordial throughout the ten+ years we been talking over the internet or phone. I knew that he was generally pro-Republican from what popped up on my feed. So I deliberately avoided talking politics, especially because I was relatively small fish in terms of being a licensee. He gave me a license instead of paying me for the map CSSK and it was a pretty big ask at the time. So I avoided any mention of politics or religions. I knew from his post in the wake of his father's death that he was pretty religious as well. There other things that popped up from his feed but nothing stood out.
So when the one popped up I started looking. I looked some more after my post to see how I missed it. The answer is because they are interspersed infrequently enough between his regular political, family, and other posts. That until that Saturday they didn't pop up on my feed. Then quantum dice rolled, one popped up and that was that. Then the events unfolded as I described in my statement and in previous posts here.
So that what happened to me. In general I would say for somebody else to be aware of what going on they would have actively browse his timeline. Maybe go back a few pages.
I will say that his son Robert Bledsaw III timeline was odd for me. I distinctly remember browsing it during the kickstarter before the debacle. For example he had a post looking at my maps with his baby. Then when I started reading about how RB3 timeline was a dumpster fire I went on and it was a completely different place filled with political and bigoted post that weren't there before. Way worse than his father's timeline.
I think Facebook made an adjustment to their search algorithm, and more posts showed up in your timeline from his feed. It wasn't that he had not posted before, it's just that Facebbok did not automatically drop the questionable posts (especially if they were questionable) into your feed,
on purpose! Well, at least until they adjusted their search and linking algorithm.
Quote from: Omega;1122770So will Traveller be next on the hit list of death by association? I have an oooold Traveller booklet and it lists as the writers Bill and Pixie Bledsaw? It is not a Judges Guild product. But we all know how these purity death spirals tend to play out.
What will probably save the Traveller stuff is that I think Marc Miller got the rights lock stock and barrel. And he's had them for years. It may kill any ability to ever see the Group One Traveller stuff though.
Quote from: estar;1122759From what I observed in following days when individuals talked about the specifics they overwhelmingly reached the same conclusions I have. Which was they no longer wish to do any type of business with Mr. Bledsaw.
In our age of (selective) outrage and witchhunts, its the best business choice.
Estar, you were put in a terrible position with no winning moves. You went with transparency and clarity about the situation and your response as a related business. It won't save you from the purity mob, but reasonable people will respect your stance. I certainly do.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1122727I was going to buy some of this Coleslaw guy's stuff, if any of it is any good.
Coleslaw Senior (who is dead) was the founder of Judges Guild and produced the original stuff in the 70s.
My favorite JG products were PEGASUS magazine. Ebay is your best bet, but shipping to Oz is psycho expensive. If you're interested, set an eBay alert for local sellers to keep the shipping costs sane.
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122754Do you think there's any value in denouncing this behavior, e.g. by people who care about the OSR and want to defend it? Or it's so irrelevant and unimpactful (e.g. words vs. deeds) that it should be ignored or mocked at worst?
I don't know if there is long term value in denouncing behaviors beyond signalling tribal virtue. Fuck Libtards! Fuck Trumpers! Fuck Bad Team! Perhaps there's individual catharsis. Or maybe I'm very wrong and denouncement has great value that echoes in the culture. I don't know.
Perhaps denouncing had more value in the past when incidents of outrage were less common, but in the age of social media, they seem so commonplace. So we denounce this week, denounce next week and then next month, will we remember all our denouncements from a year ago?
I've read arguments that these incidents will happen less as the "ok boomers" die off, but there seems to be no age limit on social media "WTF did you post that" meltdowns. Oversharing with a lack of filter seems to exist in every generation.
Thanks, Spinny - that JG stuff is pricey! There's a lot floating around in Oz, though, I'll grab some if it looks good.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791Perhaps there's individual catharsis.
I'm reading
Mistakes Were Made: But Not By Me, which is all about how people resolve the cognitive dissonance between "I am a good and competent person" and "I fucked up." One of the studies they mention was of some students, brought in ostensibly for some other test, who the researcher insults a bit while setting things up. Obviously, everyone's heart rate and blood pressure went up while being abused. But after the experiment, half of them had the opportunity to complain to the researcher's supervisor, half didn't. Did the ones who got to vent feel better afterwards? Nope - their heart rates and blood pressure went back up, and they felt more lasting hostility towards the insulter.
It turns out the British were right, it's better to bottle it up. If you express your anger, you actually feel
more angry afterwards.
Or we can look closer to our forum home. Pundit's been venting angrily for
more than a decade now. Does he seem
less angry than when he started?
A lesson there for old Coleslaw, I'd say.
In ten years after his transitioning and he starts an anti-bigotry non-profit will all be forgiven?
Quote from: Gagarth;1122800In ten years after his transitioning and he starts an anti-bigotry non-profit will all be forgiven?
Apologize for what exactly?. I believe in two genders yet if someone wants to transitions more power to them. Your really trying to compare someone transitioning being the same as racist, homophobic, anti-semitic. Were you in accident or something in the last few days and suffering from a major concussion or took some bad drugs. WTF transphobic much. I can't believe that even needs to be pointed out.
Yeah their is a major difference like several galaxies worth of difference between someone transitioning into another gender and two horrible individuals who should know better and really should not be posting some equaly horribly anti-semitic and racist comments. For what so they could the equivalent racist virtue signaling while also destroying Bob Sr legacy and perhaps bring their company into ruin. People today refuse to learn an important life skill. Sometimes one needs to think before they talking or posting online and sometimes they need to shut the fuck up and not make an already volatile situation even more explosive.
To equate transitioning being the same as being racist and an anti-semtite I suggest going on Google and looking up a 5 star reviewed mental health care specialist. That to me is insanity. Seriously get some professional help because you need it.
Quote from: Mistwell;1122752How is your post not another form of you virtue signaling?
You might need a refresher on the meaning of virtue signalling.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1122787I think Facebook made an adjustment to their search algorithm, and more posts showed up in your timeline from his feed. It wasn't that he had not posted before, it's just that Facebbok did not automatically drop the questionable posts (especially if they were questionable) into your feed, on purpose! Well, at least until they adjusted their search and linking algorithm.
That and the odds were increased due to the demise of G+ and the fact that many groups and posters migrated to Facebook. So I was starting to use Facebook for more than just keeping in touch with family and using Messenger.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791but reasonable people will respect your stance. I certainly do.
I appreciate this. I was surprised at the unanimity in the responses. It wasn't a 100% but a lot higher than what it is usually.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791In our age of (selective) outrage and witchhunts, its the best business choice.
I made the best moral and ethical choice given the circumstances. Given the long standing debates I realized more than a few are going to interpret my actions through the lense of their stance on the matter.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791Estar, you were put in a terrible position with no winning moves.
There are some elements that apply to me specifically.
1) Given the level I operate at publishing, licensing and business arrangement are prone to personal disruptions. For example was a possibility that something could get ill and the IP managed by another. Managed by a person who doesn't have the same relationship with me. Thus either cancel the license or has a more restrictive view of what it covers. So I protected myself by making sure I am still able to use my original IP without whatever IP I licensed. There were a couple of other details but overall I made sure there was path forward in most cases.
2) To cease business with Judges Guild wasn't a debate with me. However ethically I did need to discuss the matter with Mr. Bledsaw and not just assume. The conversation confirmed my initial impression.
3) However what I had to ethically after that point was not entirely clear. So I thought about it. And discussed it with family and friends. Then events unfolded I stated earlier.
4) I am well aware of the tone and tenor of the times. It was only a consideration for #3. But I quickly realized it was irrelevant, informing the licensees first was the correct ethical choice period.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791You went with transparency and clarity about the situation and your response as a related business. It won't save you from the purity mob, ...
It is what it is, all I can do for this situation is lay out what I did and why. Then focus on moving forward.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791I don't know if there is long term value in denouncing behaviors beyond signalling tribal virtue. Fuck Libtards! Fuck Trumpers! Fuck Bad Team! Perhaps there's individual catharsis. Or maybe I'm very wrong and denouncement has great value that echoes in the culture. I don't know.
Perhaps denouncing had more value in the past when incidents of outrage were less common, but in the age of social media, they seem so commonplace. So we denounce this week, denounce next week and then next month, will we remember all our denouncements from a year ago?
I've read arguments that these incidents will happen less as the "ok boomers" die off, but there seems to be no age limit on social media "WTF did you post that" meltdowns. Oversharing with a lack of filter seems to exist in every generation.
Thanks, Spinachcat. Food for thought as always.
The "ok boomers" point is especially interesting in light of some of the latest posts about how all this might've only come to light because of facebook tweaking their algorithms. Even if people learn to be more actively self-censoring in certain arenas, increasing people-processing-as-profit means the reach of the algorithm into half-baked thoughts gets larger.
Quote from: sureshot;1122802Apologize for what exactly?. I believe in two genders yet if someone wants to transitions more power to them. Your really trying to compare someone transitioning being the same as racist, homophobic, anti-semitic. Were you in accident or something in the last few days and suffering from a major concussion or took some bad drugs. WTF transphobic much. I can't believe that even needs to be pointed out.
Yeah their is a major difference like several galaxies worth of difference between someone transitioning into another gender and two horrible individuals who should know better and really should not be posting some equaly horribly anti-semitic and racist comments. For what so they could the equivalent racist virtue signaling while also destroying Bob Sr legacy and perhaps bring their company into ruin. People today refuse to learn an important life skill. Sometimes one needs to think before they talking or posting online and sometimes they need to shut the fuck up and not make an already volatile situation even more explosive.
To equate transitioning being the same as being racist and an anti-semtite I suggest going on Google and looking up a 5 star reviewed mental health care specialist. That to me is insanity. Seriously get some professional help because you need it.
Well it works if you make what a typical SJW would call homophobic statements.
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So you think the above is the same if not even worse than what the Bledsaws have posted. Either your truly fucked in the head if you can't see the clear and obvious differences. Or more likely trolling and I refuse to waste my time engaging with trolls.
Quote from: The Spaniard;1122804You might need a refresher on the meaning of virtue signalling.
Pretty sure I don't. So can you answer the question?
Quote from: Gagarth;1122813Well it works if you make what a typical SJW would call homophobic statements.
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Hell I could have written that today without apology.
Quote from: Gagarth;1122813Well it works if you make what a typical SJW would call homophobic statements.
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I wonder which products Jaquay is reffering to there.
Quote from: Slipshot762;1121781guy needs a jewish gf, nothing cures ant-semitism quite like a plucky pale skinned dark haired fortune teller with sexual appetite of a 16th century pirate. yowsa. in my experience though she won't take you to temple, apparently rabbis chastize jewish girls for courting a christian unless you are willing to convert. still, a jewish girlfriend goes a long way toward understanding the utterly mundane rather than conspiratorial jewish idiosyncracies. while insular and nepotistic to a certain degree they are far from unified and conspiring, their conspiracies rarely go beyond the nearest other jews they compete with for status within their own group. we are just not worthy opponents i guess.
Stereotype much? You're leading with the Seductive Jewess trope? Jesus.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1122871the Seductive Jewess trope? Jesus.
:eek: A trope myself & I bet most of us had never heard of!
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/5/56/TraceyUllman.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20171019052305)
Tracy Ullman (here on the Muppet Show) is pretty cool, but not sure I'd ever have called her Seductive.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1122871Stereotype much? You're leading with the Seductive Jewess trope? Jesus.
Jews have plenty of stereotypes they dispel, but they're never gonna touch "a plucky pale skinned dark haired fortune teller with sexual appetite of a 16th century pirate" if that becomes a thing. JDate is gonna get hot! :D
Slipshot is right that dating a Jewish girl (and thus her family) gives you a crash course in Jewish culture. Been there, done that and lived to tell the tale. Standup comedian John Mulaney (a proud Asian American woman and tall child) does a few great sets on his Jewish girlfriend, now wife. Same with comedian Sebastian Maniscalco. Of course, the same concept of "cultural learning via sexy time" is true about dating anyone from a different culture.
Does anyone know where the Jaquay quote was sourced from?
Depending upon what the product is about, this could be quite reasonable to provide.
Quote from: sureshot;1122857So you think the above is the same if not even worse than what the Bledsaws have posted. Either your truly fucked in the head if you can't see the clear and obvious differences. Or more likely trolling and I refuse to waste my time engaging with trolls.
I think what hes trying to get across is that to the worst of the social loons out there that these two things are the same and must be attacked and destroyed. But if you "change" then you seem to get an automatic pass because now you are one of the "unfortunates" that need to be protected. That is till the SJWs decide you arent and declare you a fake and rally to born you. Which we have seen be fore and will see again.
Paul's comments are exactly the sort of thing that the loony fringe SJWs would attack. But their likelyhood of going after Jennel are low to nearly nil. For now at least.
Quote from: ponta1010;1122878Does anyone know where the Jaquay quote was sourced from?
Depending upon what the product is about, this could be quite reasonable to provide.
Thought it was from one of the old Tunnels & Trolls books. But not seeing it on a quick look through.
Quote from: Omega;1122881Thought it was from one of the old Tunnels & Trolls books. But not seeing it on a quick look through.
Which reminds me, I've been playing the solo adventure T&T books lately, and I think they're quite fun!
Quote from: ffilz;1122616(snip) I wonder how much increase in traffic certain sites are going to see...
Not much, actually. There was quite a bit of effort to complete the JG collection and I think that was done a year or two ago.
It is from the Central Casting books, a series of system neutral life path character generation books. Homosexuality gave dark side points i regards to alignment, as I recall.
Quote from: shihansmurf;1122888It is from the Central Casting books, a series of system neutral life path character generation books. Homosexuality gave dark side points i regards to alignment, as I recall.
That's ok, Jaquays is still with his wife, right? :p
Quote from: Mistwell;1122882Which reminds me, I've been playing the solo adventure T&T books lately, and I think they're quite fun!
They are indeed. And several form a coherent map. I mapped out Buffalo castle for example.
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/imagepage/img/7YYn6AFQMnelnZrrmsXCOWmqJto=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale()/pic3053598.png)
Quote from: Omega;1122880I think what hes trying to get across is that to the worst of the social loons out there that these two things are the same and must be attacked and destroyed. But if you "change" then you seem to get an automatic pass because now you are one of the "unfortunates" that need to be protected. That is till the SJWs decide you arent and declare you a fake and rally to born you. Which we have seen be fore and will see again.
Paul's comments are exactly the sort of thing that the loony fringe SJWs would attack. But their likelyhood of going after Jennel are low to nearly nil. For now at least.
What he said.
Quote from: shihansmurf;1122888It is from the Central Casting books, a series of system neutral life path character generation books. Homosexuality gave dark side points i regards to alignment, as I recall.
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Quote from: Mistwell;1122861Pretty sure I don't. So can you answer the question?
Certainly. There's a big difference. I was neither trying to demonstrate how "good" I was, nor was I claiming any moral high ground. I merely agreed with another poster, and pointed how IMO others were doing so. Whether you like or agree with what I said makes no difference to me.
Quote from: S'mon;1122891That's ok, Jaquays is still with his wife, right? :p
I believe he divorced his wife, and married a transwoman.
Quote from: Gagarth;1122896[ATTACH=CONFIG]4171[/ATTACH]
I need the rest of that table. It's gotta have bestiality and necrophilia on it, no? ;-)
Quote from: Gagarth;1122813Well it works if you make what a typical SJW would call homophobic statements.
I don't know why, but I'm still surprised at how many people swing dramatically from one political/social extreme to the other. Like, of course Jaquays used to be a belligerently conservative Christian.
Quote from: Haffrung;1122949I don't know why, but I'm still surprised at how many people swing dramatically from one political/social extreme to the other. Like, of course Jaquays used to be a belligerently conservative Christian.
I'm not. When someone goes far enough around the loop, they end up on the other side.
Quote from: Haffrung;1122949I don't know why, but I'm still surprised at how many people swing dramatically from one political/social extreme to the other. Like, of course Jaquays used to be a belligerently conservative Christian.
Some just "see the light" as it were and go gung-ho for whatever it is they have locked onto now. Sometimes a near 180 in attitude and usually accompanied by a deep hatred of whatever they used to like prior.
Some are just following the party line and will follow whatever someone tells them to. See this with unpleasant frequency in board gaming.
Some are social climbers and just bounce from one "revelation" to the next as long at its on the ascendancy. Seen that now and then in the art circuit.
Some are social parasites and lock onto the whatever is on the ascendancy to co-opt it. And theres an appalling number of these out there.
Some are just fakes. Making a claim as a cover for whatever.
Quote from: Gagarth;1122896[ATTACH=CONFIG]4171[/ATTACH]
You can't say the author wasn't an expert on the subject.
The Central Casting books are excellent. Highly recommended.
They are full of fascinating tables to build out a character backstory. I found it more useful to grab bits to create NPCs than PCs. The huge number of event tables are also useful to create downtime events for the PC group as background between adventures.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1122974The Central Casting books are excellent. Highly recommended.
They are full of fascinating tables to build out a character backstory. I found it more useful to grab bits to create NPCs than PCs. The huge number of event tables are also useful to create downtime events for the PC group as background between adventures.
I really like the one on dungeons. It really helped me get the idea of dungeons as more than a random hole in the ground filled with stuff to kill and treasure to loot. I've worn out my copy.
Quote from: DocJones;1122919I need the rest of that table. It's gotta have bestiality and necrophilia on it, no? ;-)
Wow. Since we are not allowed to kink shame anymore or get labelled as an actual Nazi here you go. Enjoy, just make sure it is in the privacy of your own home.
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Quote from: Gagarth;1122999Wow. Since we are not allowed to kink shame anymore or get labelled as an actual Nazi here you go. Enjoy, just make sure it is in the privacy of your own home.
Thanks. These are of course dark traits for NPC villains. I wouldn't think of using them for normal characters. ;-P
Quote from: S'mon;1122595I guess you don't regard crusading vs the Turks as a family calling then!
I view defending Western Civilization as a family calling. That's why I'm condemning Bledsaw.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1122727I was going to buy some of this Coleslaw guy's stuff, if any of it is any good. Nobody's made suggestions, though.
But that's me, I'd play Myaforg if it were any good. I am indifferent to how much of an arsehole the authour is. If we don't buy shit games even when the authour is a lovely person, I don't see why we should refrain from buying them when they're not a lovely person.
I mean, it's not like the funds are going to pay for Zyklon B. They're just going to a grumpy old fat white guy, but that's true of most game companies.
Kyle, remind me to get you as a playtester. I figure if I can win over you (and the demographic of buyers you represent), I can come out of the closet with all this snuff porn already.
There been any update on this?
Quote from: Omega;1124784There been any update on this?
He cleaned up his feed and doubling down on that he did nothing wrong. And just announced a new remake of Fortress Badabaskor.
Latest development:
https://www.tenkarstavern.com/2020/04/is-judges-guild-fcking-csio-backers-yet.html
Wow talk about being fucking cluesless on the part of BB II. He put his foot in his mouth and now trying to screw backers talk about being a complete and fucking piece of crap.
What a total cockmongler.