Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121929I don't get it. When Lovecraft is attacked, the OSR is all "separate the art from the artist" now you guys can't even separate the art from the guy that happens to own the art's IP.

How is this any different than what the Fate of Cthulhu guy did?

The OSR?. like, did the OSR put a statement somewhere? Please tell me where I can read more official statements of this cohesive and well-defined group.

Quote from: Brad;1121943Lovecraft has been dead for 100 years, Bledsaw II is apparently just some jackass who never did anything but fuck up his father's IP. Miles and miles apart.

I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.

If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913Rob, I was glad to see you condemn him. Given how much I know you love the Wilderlands I realize that must have been painful.

Thanks and I appreciate your sentiments. It was difficult emotionally after the conservation with Mr. Bledsaw.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913What a complete piece of garbage that guy is.  I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby; now watch them conveniently ignore the fact that basically EVERYONE of note in the OSR is condemning him.

I would prefer that you condemn specific actions by specific individuals when it comes to this.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121962I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.

If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.

I think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1121913What a complete piece of garbage that guy is.  I guess the SJW crowd have finally found a real racist in the hobby; now watch them conveniently ignore the fact that basically EVERYONE of note in the OSR is condemning him.

The SJW's have already decided all you OSR guys (edit: Everyone NOT SJW) are "Nazis". Is it a shame this guy is ruining the IP? Sure. But welcome to reality. SJW's in this industry created people like him. He sounds like he got activated and went "the other way" - but he's still in the same shithole tier as the SJW's. I recognize Robert and others have vested interests in the IP... but be wary of trying to "distance" yourself too much because the more you try, the more detraction you'll get.

You made elf-games. Those elf-games are now in the hands of an asshole. Walk away, otherwise you're playing the Identity Politics Game which unless you're vested in thatfight  - you won't win, as they have nothing to lose, and you have *nothing* to gain. That's their game. The best case scenario is to give a polite "fuck off" to all parties concerned about the identity-shit and move on. Sucks, I know... otherwise...

As Identitarians say: You may not care about Identity, but it cares about you.

Quote from: Brad;1121966I think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?

Yeah. I was fine with that argument. If someone wants to not give the owner of an IP money, that's their business.
My problem is that when DTRPG pulled all of the Judge's Guild products over this. It's not like the modules themselves contain his tweets. They were written by other people, long before all this.
I don't think it's DTRPG's place to decide for individual consumers whether they want to support Bledsaw, boycott Bledsaw, or purchase it despite of Bledsaw.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121969Yeah. I was fine with that argument. If someone wants to not give the owner of an IP money, that's their business.
My problem is that when DTRPG pulled all of the Judge's Guild products over this. It's not like the modules themselves contain his tweets. They were written by other people, long before all this.
I don't think it's DTRPG's place to decide for individual consumers whether they want to support Bledsaw, boycott Bledsaw, or purchase it despite of Bledsaw.

Hence my first reply in this thread...after it became apparent what was going on, was ANYONE on this board surprised at that reaction? Again, irrelevant nonsense, but on the Internet it's of paramount importance.

Quote from: BradI think it has something to do with him profiting off the work. How much money has Lovecraft made the past 20 years?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121969Yeah. I was fine with that argument. If someone wants to not give the owner of an IP money, that's their business.
My problem is that when DTRPG pulled all of the Judge's Guild products over this. It's not like the modules themselves contain his tweets. They were written by other people, long before all this.
I don't think it's DTRPG's place to decide for individual consumers whether they want to support Bledsaw, boycott Bledsaw, or purchase it despite of Bledsaw.

Regardless of who originally wrote the module 40+ years ago, my impression is that now Bledsaw II is the one who gets the money if those modules are purchased. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.)

As for the choice -- DTRPG isn't a public service. It's a privately owned enterprise, and the owners get to choose what they want to carry and thus share profits with. An author has a right to free speech, but they don't have a right that Barnes & Noble has to carry their book. To the extent that DTRPG is a monopoly, I might support regulation to break up such monopolies -- but not to take control away from the owners.

Quote from: jhkim;1121976As for the choice -- DTRPG isn't a public service. It's a privately owned enterprise, and the owners get to choose what they want to carry and thus share profits with. An author has a right to free speech, but they don't have a right that Barnes & Noble has to carry their book. To the extent that DTRPG is a monopoly, I might support regulation to break up such monopolies -- but not to take control away from the owners.

I was tempted to address this point in my tweet, it's so old and predictable.

Yes, DTRPG can decide to assosicate with whomever they want. They could remove all the WTOC and TSR content because WOTC are all annoying social justice assholes. I don't think that's a good decision either, for the same reason.
I still don't think it's a good decision from a business standpoint. Lots of consumer goods are produced at the cost of slave wage labor and conflict minerals . I don't see Amazon yanking popular cell phones because the money goes to people who profit off of misery. And that's a hell of a lot more heinous (IMO) than some crank spouting racist tweets.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121962I see this as if Michael Tolkien said something racist and then everyone demands that Lord of the Rings be pulled from all book stores. It's crazy to me.

If the products themselves aren't racists then they shouldn't be pulled down.

As others have said. Its the fact that someone doing something bad is making money off those product if they continue to be up for sale. If Michael Tolkein said something racist and was getting all the money from sales of the books and other product then we'd have the same situation possibly. Some would take down the books from their shops. But all any of Tolkein's descendants are getting now is maybee royalties? Most of the IP money goes to the Foundation doesnt it?

This is a case where the owner of a company is causing trouble. People are well within their rights to take that material down from their venues till things get sorted out. If ever.

But as said earlier. This is a very fickle double edged sword and X will get a pass because its profitable or the current darling, and Y will not because it is an acceptable target or cant fight back.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1121981I don't see Amazon yanking popular cell phones because the money goes to people who profit off of misery. And that's a hell of a lot more heinous (IMO) than some crank spouting racist tweets.

SJWs can only react to things they know about, which is anything they're told to destroy by their masters. Do you really think any of them have any idea about that sort of stuff? They're the same morons complaining about a "livable wage" so they can afford cable tv and Starbucks in the morning while wearing clothes made by children in SE Asia working for a dollar a day. Just useful idiots.

Also, related to your link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/Child-miners-aged-four-living-hell-Earth.html

Quote from: Jager Fury;1121888So you've dug deeper right? You see the awful stuff everyone is referring to here, right? It would be great if you could adjust your comment in light of this information.

I looked at the stuff in the OP and it looks like a big so what.

This is one of those very shitty situations where you have to "burn the village to save the village."

Yes, this guy didn't personally write every product, but unfortunately he gets a cut of every profit that comes from them. He pissed all over his father's legacy and the works of others.

We keep bringing up Tolkein but let's use a more modern example. Imagine J.K. Rowling dies and has a Son who comes out in favor of Pedophilia. He gets caught with Child Pornography and blurts all over Social media how he has no regrets and is looking forward to his next child lover...

Now imagine he also gets a royalty for every Harry Potter related item that's sold.

Doesn't matter that he didn't create Harry Potter, doesn't matter other people "expanded" the universe with Videogames and other things. He's still going to profit off of it. You bet your ass all of it would be torn down, and removed from purchase from every store out there, and every streaming service.

Our reality of course is a much smaller example than that... but it's also similar. Our industry is smaller, but still needs to protect itself. Doesn't matter if he had nothing to do with Judge's Guild products... He still profits from it, and he's come out as a racist douche bag. Scorched Earth is the only response you can have sadly. It just goes to show how selfish of a fuck this guy really is, by not even considering the consequences of his actions and how it would effect others.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1121860There was more than anti-semitic posts in Bob III's twitter feeds, and Bob II insulted his own uncle. Bob II, is currently the Judges Guild IP holder, ...and no gamer wants to support a neo-nazi earning any money at all to continue their public tirade of hate, rascism, and religious repression. Gamers can be very particular about how they spend their money, and helping other people hate more, is not something decent gamers want to support. That is the moral imperative. On this particular subject, me and Mistwell completely agree, like 100%.

That may be a moral imperative for people who feel some kind of emotional connection and affinity for people they buy RPG products from. But I'm not one of those people. I no more care who writes my RPG books than I care who manufacturers the laundry detergent I use. I no more regard my patronage of RPG creators as 'support' than I regard buying Tide at the grocery stores as support for [searches google] Procter & Gamble. And if some honcho at Procter & Gamble is revealed to be an unsavoury person, it won't affect my purchases at all. Because I still prefer Tide to Gain.

And I don't see how buying JG products would help Bledsaw II create more hate. Anyone who can pay for internet can post whatever ugly nonsense they want all day long. There's no correlation between money in his pocket and the amount the hate he spews.

Since the moral imperative around creators and content varies person to person, why should I be denied the right to purchase products? Why should your moral outrage go further than a personal boycott, and make products inaccessible to me?

Quote from: Haffrung;1121988.

Since the moral imperative around creators and content varies person to person, why should I be denied the right to purchase products? Why should your moral outrage go further than a personal boycott, and make products accessible to me?

Because it's not about you. One Book Shelf does not want to be associated with him, because it could further damage their brand. This is one of the rare cases where it really is cut and dry. This isn't a James Raggi situation putting out edgy content, or Zack S and all his own internet drama nonsense. This is a confirmed case of, no this dude is an actual racist. He proudly believes in these things, we have examples of it. Most companies don't want to associate their brand with people like that, it's bad for Business, and I don't fault Drive thru one percent for deciding to cut ties at this point.

You demanding they sell the product of an actual confirmed and known Racist are being the selfish one here, because you want their Business to potentially lose money and damage their reputation in the long run to cater to your own needs. I'm sure Judge's Guild has their own website where you can purchase their products directly if you still want them. But at the end of the day, supporting the free market also means the freedom of the market to decide it doesn't want to associate itself with a particular product.