So the guy who was in charge of the new edition of Fading Suns has been very suddenly and unexpectedly (according to him) fired from the project, and he's pissed about it (http://darthgus.blogspot.de/2012/05/fading-suns-3-stillborn.html).
Meanwhile, the publishers are claiming everything will still be proceeding on schedule (http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=154&sid=7deab7add4a63e08b296022866546543&start=60).
What do we think about all this?
RPGPundit
Ah la vache... I feel for the guy. I really do. That totally blows. Betrayal indeed.
An Ohio game company?
Neato.
Oh, and that stinks for the dude and all that. But there has to be a legitimate reason that a business would allow a project to get to that stage and then torpedo it.
Maybe the writer banged the boss' mom, or something. Or maybe he didn't bang the boss' mom.
Quote from: everloss;537167An Ohio game company?
Neato.
Oh, and that stinks for the dude and all that. But there has to be a legitimate reason that a business would allow a project to get to that stage and then torpedo it.
Maybe the writer banged the boss' mom, or something. Or maybe he didn't bang the boss' mom.
Apparently they don't want to get into it due to not causing the guy who's services were no longer required undue embarrassment. Corporate cockspeak for: he did something terrible, but we can't say doncha know *wink*.
Seeing as the whole damn thing was done, and from what I can gather on the boards, the response to the peeks and releases were mostly positive, I can't imagine what the hell happened. It's not like RedBrick is even really a company, it's one fucking guy and no employees. Getting something ready for Gencon is laughable since they told him RedBrick isn't using anything he wrote.
Quote from: CRKrueger;537169Getting something ready for Gencon is laughable since they told him RedBrick isn't using anything he wrote.
Apparently its now all back on schedule because they have just hired some fans over the internet to write the book...
It seems a really weird situation anyway. From what I have been told (so take this with as large a pinch of salt as you wish), RedBrick does not want to publish a Fading Suns game using the original rules, but wants to publish a Savage Worlds and d20 version. (Fuck knows why, I thought the last d20 Fading Suns version tanked?)
However, they are contractually obliged to make the original rules version BEFORE they make any other version. So they hired two Fading Suns fanatics to write a version on the cheap. One of which, Angus (possibly aided by the other, I don't know), seems to have not only wrote the third edition, but also have run the PR campaign and win the majority of the fans over to wanting a Third Edition, even though a lot of them seem happy with 1st/2nd.
So they sacked him...
I'm sorry he got fired, but that happens all the time in any industry you care to name. What this does do for me at least, is lose any interest I had in 3e FS. I was excited in the direction he was going. I'll just stick with the original in this case.
I sense bullcrap is afoot. Seriously. There's more to this story than we know.
Quote from: Benoist;537213I sense bullcrap is afoot. Seriously. There's more to this story than we know.
Yeah it's weird, first Monte just quits and then this. Something doesn't smell right in Denmark in either situation if you ask me.
Quote from: Benoist;537213I sense bullcrap is afoot. Seriously. There's more to this story than we know.
Indeed. According to the aggrieved person's blog he'd written (though not alone, his co author didn't get fired) the players guide and the GM book. Then got fired. To warrant that something either egregiously corrupt has happened or this guy wrote something so unbelievably offensive or went on to try and steal the bosses bank balance or something.
*sigh* Well, scratch one off the wish list. I expect either ridiculous delays or shoddy production or both. Time to start scrounging the used book stores to complete my FS 1e collection.
Quote from: CRKrueger;537169Getting something ready for Gencon is laughable since they told him RedBrick isn't using anything he wrote.
This.
I don't know who is right and who is wrong in all this, Redbrick or Angus, and frankly it's none of my business. What is going to happen with Fading Suns 3rd,
is my business, and I smell a fuck-up.
Quote from: Marleycat;537212I'm sorry he got fired, but that happens all the time in any industry you care to name.
The slight difference to most industries is that freelance writers only get paid based upon their published word-count. So the guy is not getting paid a penny for four years of work.
Quote from: jadrax;537287The slight difference to most industries is that freelance writers only get paid based upon their published word-count. So the guy is not getting paid a penny for four years of work.
Bring in the lawyers!
Strangly I am a huge Fading Suns fan, and I couldn't care less.
I have plenty of FS books, and during the original run of the game the chances I would want or need the newest product rapidly declined as the list of published books grew.
In other words, I really do want for nothing in the FS department. Except players that is. Unless Redbrick is gonna send me some good FS players, I don't really care.
Of course, now I sorta want to plan an FS campaign instead of a Traveller campaign. Maybe I'll just sorta mix the two up a bit?
Quote from: Spike;537290Of course, now I sorta want to plan an FS campaign instead of a Traveller campaign. Maybe I'll just sorta mix the two up a bit?
I see no reason Traveller can't handle the Fading Suns setting as well as, or even better than the original system.
Speaking of which, don't you have a Traveller game to run? ;)
Quote from: jadrax;537287The slight difference to most industries is that freelance writers only get paid based upon their published word-count. So the guy is not getting paid a penny for four years of work.
This I didn't read: if this is actually what's haoppened, for whatever reason, then that is beyond inexcusable. The amount of work Angus is claiming to have turned in (two core books amounting to at least 500 pages afaict) deserves some recompense. This sets a dreadful standard - if true. What Redbrick choose to do with his work is entirely their business, but if he isn't going to be paid then they can go to bloody hell. I certainly won't support a company that behaves like this.
Quote from: Dodger;537289Bring in the lawyers!
That won't help. I doubt Redbrick will have the wherewithall to stump up any legally compelled compensation. They are a small time rpg publisher. Good luck seeing the money!
Sounds to me like Angus should just side-step the issue. Convert what he has into the Traveller OGL and release it himself with a name that ever so delicately implies Fading Suns. :D
OTOH, 2 500 page books? Way too big for my tastes....
Quote from: The Butcher;537301I see no reason Traveller can't handle the Fading Suns setting as well as, or even better than the original system.
Speaking of which, don't you have a Traveller game to run? ;)
Work related issues are interfering, sadly.
Pity. Kind of smells like the "Dead Reign," hoo-hah from a couple of years ago.
Best of luck to you Angus!
Quote from: BillDowns;537310Sounds to me like Angus should just side-step the issue. Convert what he has into the Traveller OGL and release it himself with a name that ever so delicately implies Fading Suns. :D
OTOH, 2 500 page books? Way too big for my tastes....
This would be my response if it were me. Do a vaguely similar setting with the rules already written and either approach other publishers or self-publish. Would be a shame to waste all the time and effort.
Quote from: jadrax;537287The slight difference to most industries is that freelance writers only get paid based upon their published word-count. So the guy is not getting paid a penny for four years of work.
That sucks, but didn't he make mention that he signed something stupid off the top? I say never sign anything without a lawyer present if it concerns some kind of contractual agreement for work product. Or get EVERYTHING in writing, whatever works best for getting paid for your work.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537305That won't help. I doubt Redbrick will have the wherewithall to stump up any legally compelled compensation.
I doubt that would let them off the hook. The LLC has assets that could be liquidated and/or handed over to Angus in lieu of monetary compensation.
Incidentally, it's worth noting that James Sutton has gone on record (http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=274) as saying that
"Angus McNicholl, FS3 Line Developer, and his team have persevered and produced what we think is an excellent incarnation of Fading Suns..."So, it's not that Angus's work wasn't up to scratch. There's definitely something incredibly fishy going on here.
I had been thinking about adding Earthdawn to my collection but I think I'll hold off making that particular purchase for now.
Quote from: jadrax;537287The slight difference to most industries is that freelance writers only get paid based upon their published word-count. So the guy is not getting paid a penny for four years of work.
That's his stupidity. For all we know, he only did maybe 10% of the writing, but was acting like he was the main hotshot. Or he did a lot of writing, but it was mostly crap.
Quote from: Dodger;537338Incidentally, it's worth noting that James Sutton has gone on record (http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=274) as saying that "Angus McNicholl, FS3 Line Developer, and his team have persevered and produced what we think is an excellent incarnation of Fading Suns..."
Standard news release from a business, which really means nothing.
Quote from: Dodger;537338I doubt that would let them off the hook. The LLC has assets that could be liquidated and/or handed over to Angus in lieu of monetary compensation.
Incidentally, it's worth noting that James Sutton has gone on record (http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=274) as saying that "Angus McNicholl, FS3 Line Developer, and his team have persevered and produced what we think is an excellent incarnation of Fading Suns..."
So, it's not that Angus's work wasn't up to scratch. There's definitely something incredibly fishy going on here.
I had been thinking about adding Earthdawn to my collection but I think I'll hold off making that particular purchase for now.
Don't know what the law is in the states, but over here, while Redbrick might be found guilty (if that's the case, of course) of not paying him, if they don't have the money there ain't much that can be done since we don't have a debtor's gaol anymore. I doubt they could go after the owner's personal assets and if Rebrick ain't making the money they can't pay what they haven't got. Even if they do getting around to actually paying up could take an entire epoch to much the same effect. Meanwhile Angus has to pay for all this legal movement himself, at least initially (I assume).
Perhaps he should talk to Judge Judy; after all Johnny Rotten sued his drummer on tv. I often wonder what a reactionary right wing jewish lunatic would make of such a dispute.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537363Don't know what the law is in the states,
..or in the UK, for that matter...
Quotebut over here, while Redbrick might be found guilty (if that's the case, of course) of not paying him, if they don't have the money there ain't much that can be done since we don't have a debtor's gaol anymore. I doubt they could go after the owner's personal assets and if Rebrick ain't making the money they can't pay what they haven't got.
In the UK, if a court orders a company to pay someone money and they fail to do so, the person who is owed money can apply to have the company wound up.
Quote from: danbuter;537359Standard news release from a business, which really means nothing.
Actually, what it means is they can't now claim that his work wasn't up to scratch.
Quote from: Dodger;537374..or in the UK, for that matter...
In the UK, if a court orders a company to pay someone money and they fail to do so, the person who is owed money can apply to have the company wound up.
And how will that help Angus if he hasn't been paid? Are Redbrick rolling in it?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537416And how will that help Angus if he hasn't been paid? Are Redbrick rolling in it?
I don't know. My point is that an LLC can't just walk away from its contractual responsibilities without fear of any comeback.
Quote from: danbuter;537356That's his stupidity.
TBH I am inclined to agree. Not that I think signing the initial contract was automatically a mistake, but to carry on for four years past the date when the second contract had failed to materialise, I think was probably an error. If your promised a second contract, and it dosen't show, it is time to walk. If they say, its with the Lawyer, you get the lawyer's phone number and ask him what the fuck the hold up is.
QuoteFor all we know, he only did maybe 10% of the writing, but was acting like he was the main hotshot. Or he did a lot of writing, but it was mostly crap.
No one is disputing he had done the majority of the writing, so that idea I think is ruled out. He was 'acting like the main hotshot' because he was the Line Developer. Quality is hard to measure, but the fans liked his blog posts and like his prior work, and he seemed to be addressing a lot of the stuff that the fan's hated.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537416And how will that help Angus if he hasn't been paid? Are Redbrick rolling in it?
They will probably have enough material assets to cover the debt, even after they are sold at the rock bottom prices the bailiffs will charge.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537363Don't know what the law is in the states, but over here, while Redbrick might be found guilty (if that's the case, of course) of not paying him, if they don't have the money there ain't much that can be done since we don't have a debtor's gaol anymore. I doubt they could go after the owner's personal assets and if Rebrick ain't making the money they can't pay what they haven't got.
Depending on what state a lawsuit was filed in, then it could be possible to get a lien against a company for future earnings. Goes by the typical name of "garnishment".
And if Red Brick is not really a proper corporation, but a partnership or something, then the individuals would be responsible.
I have to say, though, I am not a lawyer, and so don't know details. I just know it can be done in certain states.
Quote from: Dodger;537375Actually, what it means is they can't now claim that his work wasn't up to scratch.
I have no legal training at all, but when I read that email I thought exactly the same thing. Now, perhaps the whole email contains more information, but we may never know for sure. It may be that the author of the blog cherry-picked through James' email to make his point in his post.
I need to backtrack a bit. It's a "garnishment" if the winner gets a judge to force your employer to take something out of your wages.
Sorry about that - I've been working on a payroll conversion for a client and have garnishments on my mind :)
Quote from: Dodger;537420I don't know. My point is that an LLC can't just walk away from its contractual responsibilities without fear of any comeback.
I'm not saying they can. I'm saying that the real outcome of such a situation won't see anyone any better off.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537434I'm not saying they can. I'm saying that the real outcome of such a situation won't see anyone any better off.
Well, firstly, you don't know that for sure. Secondly, sometimes it's worth following through on breach of contract just on general principle. Otherwise, what's the point in having a contract to begin with? Besides, in my experience, companies are often bluffing and will very rapidly change their story when it becomes clear that you're going to call their bluff.
Quote from: jadrax;537424TBH I am inclined to agree. Not that I think signing the initial contract was automatically a mistake, but to carry on for four years past the date when the second contract had failed to materialise, I think was probably an error. If your promised a second contract, and it dosen't show, it is time to walk. If they say, its with the Lawyer, you get the lawyer's phone number and ask him what the fuck the hold up is.
Note that contracts don't have to be written down and signed. Verbal agreements can be enforced as contracts, as can agreements formed over email (probably easier, in fact, as there's a record of what was agreed). If RedBrick agreed certain things with Angus, it may not matter whether or not a formal paper contract was actually drawn up and signed.
One thing's for certain - the
Fading Suns brand has been damaged by RedBrick's handling of the situation, as demonstrated by the number of people who are now saying that the new version is no longer an automatic purchase. Holistic Design should be taking a long, hard look at RedBrick's suitability as a licensee.
It would be ironic if they ended up terminating RedBrick's licence and gave it to Angus instead.
I would say more than traveller, you could run Fading Suns with SWN!
RPGPundit
I hope the SWN version of Fading Suns is worth it.
SWN would be just about perfect as a baseline for FS.
KoOS
Wow, the backlash from this must be pretty horrific. RedBrick just pulled the plug on its own forums.
http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=514
This is the most retarded handling of a game I've seen. Fading Suns is not a property that exists outside of the RPG community. Any potential customer of Fading Suns 3.0 is someone who has at least semi-regular access to RPG forums, blogs, etc...
They basically went to their only audience, displayed one of the audience's own holding his bloody anus, then cut off communication with that community in pathetic Corp101 fashion (always a big hit with the RPG crowd)...
...and they're expecting someone to buy anything from them again? The only thing I can think of is, somehow their licence includes Fading Sun android apps so their gonna try and get those out. They're done as tabletop RPG publishers unless they can prove Angus to be a total nutcase asshole.
Quote from: jadrax;537774Wow, the backlash from this must be pretty horrific. RedBrick just pulled the plug on its own forums.
http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=514
From what I understand people were using the forums to talk about an OGL Kickstarter for Angus' serial-number-filed-off manuscript.
If I were Andrew, I'd be more then a little upset at this point.
Quote from: CRKrueger;537787From what I understand people were using the forums to talk about an OGL Kickstarter for Angus' serial-number-filed-off manuscript.
If I were Andrew, I'd be more then a little upset at this point.
He did it to himself so I'm not surprised. I doubt anybody is going to be convinced that Angus was such an asshole that they wouldn't support him at this point.
Unless he's a registered pedophile or something, I don't see how Red Brick is going to get out of the clusterfuck it created for itself.
Didn't Carsten Damm leave Redbrick not long ago? Sounds like someone at Redbrick doesn't play well with others.
Quote from: Benoist;537794Unless he's a registered pedophile or something, I don't see how Red Brick is going to get out of the clusterfuck it created for itself.
This is what I'm waiting to hear confirmed because this is like dealing with Palladium or something. It's just really bad.
Quote from: CRKrueger;537787From what I understand people were using the forums to talk about an OGL Kickstarter for Angus' serial-number-filed-off manuscript.
If I were Andrew, I'd be more then a little upset at this point.
closing the forums seems to be a massive overreaction on the face of it. What the fuck is going on here?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;537806closing the forums seems to be a massive overreaction on the face of it. What the fuck is going on here?
Maybe firing the dude was the first overreaction, and now we're just witnessing the follow-up in plain sight?
Maybe James Sutton is pulling a Catalyst Labs and fleeing with the money. :D
I sense a wife-diddling.
Quote from: One Horse Town;537831I sense a wife-diddling.
I thought his wife and child died in a car wreck though?
Quote from: Marleycat;537832I thought his wife and child died in a car wreck though?
Wife diddling could have been the culprit ala Word According to Garp.
Quote from: Marleycat;537832I thought his wife and child died in a car wreck though?
Seriously?
If so, you've made me feel bad.
If it's a joke, i'm gonna make you feel bad.
Quote from: CRKrueger;537833Wife diddling could have been the culprit ala Word According to Garp.
Great movie! Robin Williams was excellent in that film.
Quote from: One Horse Town;537834Seriously?
If so, you've made me feel bad.
If it's a joke, i'm gonna make you feel bad.
Be prepared for feeling bad. I know his child died I'm just not sure if his wife did also. It's is the reason RedBrick went AWoL for about a year or so.
Quote from: Marleycat;537837Be prepared for feeling bad. I know his child died I'm just not sure if his wife did also. It's is the reason RedBrick went AWoL for about a year or so.
Fuck, i take it back. :(
I might be a bastard, but i'm not a fucking bastard.
Quote from: One Horse Town;537834Seriously?
If so, you've made me feel bad.
If it's a joke, i'm gonna make you feel bad.
Be prepared for feeling bad. I know his child died. It's is the reason RedBrick went AWoL for about a year or so. I am reasonably certain his wife did also. I just wondered if anybody could confirm it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Quote from: Marleycat;537840Be prepared for feeling bad. I know his child died. It's is the reason RedBrick went AWoL for about a year or so. I am reasonably certain his wife did also. I just wondered if anybody could confirm it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yes, his wife died also in the same tragic incident.
James has subsequently moved to the US and remarried. We do however seem to have moved away from the topic of this thread.
Quote from: Skywalker;537845Yes, his wife died also in the same tragic incident.
James has subsequently moved to the US and remarried. We do however seem to have moved away from the topic of this thread.
As is the wont of RPGsite, but yeah. I think Ben may be right and we are just seeing some of the fallout in public.
Quote from: One Horse Town;537839Fuck, i take it back. :(
I might be a bastard, but i'm not a fucking bastard.
You
monster! :eek:
Seriously though, you had no idea. It's okay. It happens. Foot in mouth and all.
Per Sutton it was filicide. (See this post (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?533450-Fading-Suns-tweaking-the-setting&p=12718844#post12718844))
Quote from: ptingler;537922Per Sutton it was filicide. (See this post (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?533450-Fading-Suns-tweaking-the-setting&p=12718844#post12718844))
So his wife killed herself and the child? That's beyond horrible.
After that? Take a year off. Hell, take 5. I wouldn't criticize anyone for it at that point.
Jesus.
Jesus, i feel about 2 inches tall at this point.
Condolences to all concerned.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;537927So his wife killed herself and the child? That's beyond horrible.
After that? Take a year off. Hell, take 5. I wouldn't criticize anyone for it at that point.
Jesus.
Man, I didn't know it went that far I assumed it was a pure accident.
@OHT, you had no way of knowing so don't beat yourself up about it so much. I'm sorry I even mentioned it.
Yeah, words fail to express the abject horror of the situation, nor the feelings it invokes.
Quote from: CRKrueger;537829Maybe James Sutton is pulling a Catalyst Labs and fleeing with the money. :D
I don't know about Catalyst, but I was thinking the same thing, after I read the dealio about closing the forums.
It seems like firing the writer was the first step in closing shop and jetting with whatever money is left.
Why else fire the writer and end 3 or 4 years of work on a much hyped release, so close to to the finish? Then, close the forums and write a lame reason for doing so. Then, at the bottom, is says, something along the lines of, 'thank you for your patience in this time of rapid change.'
I'm calling it - Redbrick won't exist after next week.
That would explain the terseness of Sutton's correspondence; if he's folding the company or declaring bankruptcy, he'll have a lawyer telling him to commit the bare minimum to paper and discuss details with no one until the settlement's done.
I
Don't
Understand
What's
Going
On
This
Is
A
Horrible
Mess
Quote from: everloss;537967I don't know about Catalyst, but I was thinking the same thing, after I read the dealio about closing the forums.
It seems like firing the writer was the first step in closing shop and jetting with whatever money is left.
Why else fire the writer and end 3 or 4 years of work on a much hyped release, so close to to the finish? Then, close the forums and write a lame reason for doing so. Then, at the bottom, is says, something along the lines of, 'thank you for your patience in this time of rapid change.'
I'm calling it - Redbrick won't exist after next week.
Well, that would be one likely explanation; and certainly a preferable one to "this is just a gigantic dick-waving contest gone horribly wrong".
RPGPundit
With what Sutton seems to have gone through I'd honestly cut him slack even to the point of screwing everybody and disappearing into a hole. I mean, what's happening at Redbrick sucks but human beings can only take so much sometimes.
Quote from: The_Shadow;538279With what Sutton seems to have gone through I'd honestly cut him slack even to the point of screwing everybody and disappearing into a hole. I mean, what's happening at Redbrick sucks but human beings can only take so much sometimes.
When was this supposed to have happened? Is it relevant to the situation at hand? If not why is it being brought up, it's hardly anyone else's business.
Quote from: daniel_ream;538053That would explain the terseness of Sutton's correspondence; if he's folding the company or declaring bankruptcy, he'll have a lawyer telling him to commit the bare minimum to paper and discuss details with no one until the settlement's done.
If he's folding the company or declaring bankruptcy, he'd be firing everyone, not just some people, nor would he be promising new releases in time for GenCon.
Of course, the company may still fold; I just don't think that was the original plan.
My personal experience of James is that he knew that I have only a few years left to live (4 or 5) and knew from my fan art that I wanted to get involved in the RPG business, so he brought me in to do Cover Images and illustrations even though I think my art work isnt that good, he also helped me set up DramaScape (maps and floorplans are my real strength) and taught me how to put it all together, if it wasnt for James DramaScape wouldnt exist.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;538283When was this supposed to have happened? Is it relevant to the situation at hand? If not why is it being brought up, it's hardly anyone else's business.
It happened almost 5 years ago. He(and his fans) has been using it as a crutch/club/excuse ever since. I can get behind that it is a tragic thing to have happen, but holy shit people he has been using it as an excuse while dating and getting married again.
Quote from: Sommerjon;538347It happened almost 5 years ago. He(and his fans) has been using it as a crutch/club/excuse ever since. I can get behind that it is a tragic thing to have happen, but holy shit people he has been using it as an excuse while dating and getting married again.
How has he been using it as an excuse. That's a pretty serious accusation to be levelling.
Quote from: The_Shadow;538279With what Sutton seems to have gone through I'd honestly cut him slack even to the point of screwing everybody and disappearing into a hole. I mean, what's happening at Redbrick sucks but human beings can only take so much sometimes.
that's a good point, and I never meant to imply that the dude is some sort of lowlife.
But the way it is being handled seems more calculated than these things normally go when a person is burned out.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;538350How has he been using it as an excuse. That's a pretty serious accusation to be levelling.
Whenever someone would ask when something that was being delayed, yet again, the fans and himself or employees would come trumpeting into the thread to wave the 'tragedy banner'.
From the purple place earlier this year
where Anunnaki er...James Sutton rage quit rpg.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?614278-What-s-up-with-Earthdawn&p=15044494#post15044494)
If you want to know the real story then this is it, hes probably not going to be happy with me telling you but;
James wife killed herself and Dominic in mid-July 2009, after a prior suicide attempt in early June. James was the one who found the bodies when he got home from work.
She killed her and James's son, then herself...James spent the better part of 2010 moving back forth from NZ to the US, before remarrying and working on getting his life back together again.
And he really hasn't been actively involved with day-to-day activity with RedBrick since late 2011 and is still recovering from PTSD.
Quote from: Sommerjon;538362Whenever someone would ask when something that was being delayed, yet again, the fans and himself or employees would come trumpeting into the thread to wave the 'tragedy banner'.
From the purple place earlier this year
where Anunnaki er...James Sutton rage quit rpg.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?614278-What-s-up-with-Earthdawn&p=15044494#post15044494)
Guy has a tragedy like that and you hold it against him that his hobby/business gets off track?
Tragedy banner?Mate, you're a tosser.
Quote from: The_Shadow;538366Guy has a tragedy like that and you hold it against him that his hobby/business gets off track? Tragedy banner?
Mate, you're a tosser.
Really? How choked up could he be if he went back out into the singles market, found someone, got engaged, and remarried in, from dramascape guy's timeline of july '09, less than 30 months? And he is supposed to be suffering from ptsd? What a crock.
From my local forums:
Gonna chat a bit about my opinions on the state of the industry. What I see wrong, right, and etc.
I'll start this off with a system that I have always held dear; Earthdawn.
Earthdawn has horrible managers(Red Brick) that have repeatedly wasted the potential of the system.
ED came out in 1993 made originally by FASA, by 1999 FASA closed production on it giving Living Room Games the opportunity to continue to make products, then also gave the license to Red Brick in 2003. By 2005 Living Room Games finally gave up the ghost, while Red Brick still has the license to this day.
Here's the rub, from 1993-1999 FASA produced 23 products(non module), since 1999 with 2 separate companies having the opportunity to produce products you know how much original non-adventure modules has been produced?
3
But it gets better, Red Brick has put up their 'state of the brick' and we are getting another rererelease of the base game. Red Brick has 2 versions of the game their Earthdawn Classic(errated1ed) and their 3rd edition. However Red Brick is no longer going to be partnering with Mongoose to produce their books they have decided to, well it's easier to quote what they say.
"FLAMING COBRA
Let's make things official: RedBrick has ended its relationship with Mongoose Publishing. ....
FORMAT CHANGES
Effective from our next product release, all of our books will be available in hardcover and softcover formats from OneBookShelf and our own RedBrick Shop You won't find them in retail stores or on Amazon, though we will be ramping up limited retail distribution some time in late 2013. This is a step sideways to the way we did things from 2006-2008 with Lulu, but is more an acknowledgement of the advances made by OneBookShelf in getting reasonably-priced print products to market. We will be offering print+PDF bundles from both OBS and our RedBrick Shop. More radically, perhaps, all of our book titles will be in the smaller 6.14x9.21" format, with PDFs optimized to work better on e-readers. We will be hyperlinking and bookmarking products as much as possible (similarly to how we did this in the Earthdawn Classic days). And we are working on getting titles into other formats (Kindle for novels, but also the latest iBook and K8 formats for rulebooks), but that's a work-in-progress. With this in mind: EARTHDAWN THIRD EDITION
As has been said on our forums, Earthdawn Third Edition is alive and well. However, with the move from Flaming Cobra back to RedBrick, there will be some changes. Firstly (contractually), nothing will be appearing from RedBrick for Earthdawn Third Edition until Q3 2012. As noted above, there will be a format change. Moving forwards, all of our books will be released in 6.14x9.21" formats (hardcover and softcover). If you want your ED3 books in 8.5x11" format, please take advantage of the Mongoose Earthdawn sale to stock up! Once they are gone, they are gone.
EARTHDAWN SAVAGE WORLDS AND PATHFINDER
Hank Woon (Lost Dynasty, Cathay, Dark Shadows, and Immortal Twilight) is the Line Developer for the Earthdawn Savage Worlds and Pathfinder game lines. These are being developed and released independently of Earthdawn Third Edition and are intended for players of the Savage Worlds and Pathfinder game systems who have not had the pleasure of gaming in the world of Earthdawn. Both editions are based on Earthdawn First Edition.
Hank's team is also working on producing Adventure modules to support the Savage Worlds and Pathfinder editions. Access to the core Savage Worlds and Pathfinder rulebooks is a prerequisite, but there's a lot of products coming out for these lines."
WTF are they thinking?
But it gets better. Both Living Room Games(defunct) and Red Brick had/have multiple game lines they produce. Red Brick currently has the rights to Earthdawn, Fading Suns, Blue Planet, Demonworld(miniature game[15mm])
To add more.
After the release of the EDpf edition, some random guy buys it and rips it apart on the paizo forums, so what does RedBrick do? It hires that some random guy to be part of the line development team.
Quote from: Sommerjon;538369Really? How choked up could he be if he went back out into the singles market, found someone, got engaged, and remarried in, from dramascape guy's timeline of july '09, less than 30 months? And he is supposed to be suffering from ptsd? What a crock.
The kindest thing I can say to you is that you have not the first clue what ptsd is. I didn't ask you to spill his private matters over the internet - if indeed they have any bearing on the Angus Affair, which you cannot substantiate.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;538386The kindest thing I can say to you is that you have not the first clue what ptsd is.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It used to be called Shell Shock.
Hey all, this is Andrew Greenberg over at Holistic Design. I have been getting a lot of questions from folks over the recent changes at Redbrick. I'm really sorry to see this all happening. I consider everyone involved in this matter friends of ours, and we have enjoyed working with all of them.
Bill Bridges and I were not consulted over this, nor did we need to be. Redbrick's contractual obligation is to create quality FS releases, not to do it with any particular people. We anticipate that Redbrick will do a good job with the FS line, and we look forward to reviewing the work in which their dev team is now engaged.
Sorry for the PR speak, but we can't tell Redbrick with whom it should work. It's their choice, and as long as they send us good new products, it's in the contract that we approve them (approval not to be unreasonably denied, and all that). Right now we are looking forward to a new draft of FS3 to review and comment upon. Here is Redbrick's post on the matter: http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=499
Quote from: jadrax;538388Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It used to be called Shell Shock.
I know what it is; our friend, it seems, does not.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;538386The kindest thing I can say to you is that you have not the first clue what ptsd is. I didn't ask you to spill his private matters over the internet - if indeed they have any bearing on the Angus Affair, which you cannot substantiate.
I spent 14 years in the military in a combat MOS from 1990-2004 that was Desert Storm, Bosnia and Iraq, so yeah I have a smidgen of knowledge of what it is, fucktard.
You'll also notice I wasn't the one who said he was suffering from it.
My contention has always been he has remarried, yet people still want to use it as an excuse for lack of development.
Quote from: Sommerjon;538399I spent 14 years in the military in a combat MOS from 1990-2004 that was Desert Storm, Bosnia and Iraq, so yeah I have a smidgen of knowledge of what it is, fucktard.
You'll also notice I wasn't the one who said he was suffering from it.
My contention has always been he has remarried, yet people still want to use it as an excuse for lack of development.
fucktard certainly is a popular word tonight. Perhaps it's a full moon or something.
I didn't provoke that kind of response, so wind your neck in. Being a soldier doesn't make you an expert in ptsd.
Some people may well remarry after that kind of trauma, do you seriously think that automatically means their emotional anguish is cured? Plenty of people remarry and still have feelings for their lost wife.
And you acted as if you believed he was suffering from ptsd; if you don't believe that to be the case you should have worded your post differently.
I couldn't give a fuck what army you served in. Guns and medals don't impress me one bit.
New plot twist:
One of the RPG.net moderators is now seems to be reporting that Dawn Sutton (current wife of James Sutton) is also no longer affiliated with RedBrick.
Quote from: jadrax;538415New plot twist:
One of the RPG.net moderators is now seems to be reporting that Dawn Sutton (current wife of James Sutton) is also no longer affiliated with RedBrick.
Holy shit, Dan was right, a wife diddling. Sorry.
Seriously though, it looks like this Sutton fellow has been through hell and back and maybe he's not handling FS the way we want him to be, or even the way he would handle things under other circumstances, but I'm going to reserve judgement until I see whether or not the new FS3 is just FS2 repolished.
None of that really explains or excuses the prison class ass-raping he gave Angus though.
Quote from: CRKrueger;538418Holy shit, Dan was right, a wife diddling. Sorry.
Seriously though, it looks like this Sutton fellow has been through hell and back and maybe he's not handling FS the way we want him to be, or even the way he would handle things under other circumstances, but I'm going to reserve judgement until I see whether or not the new FS3 is just FS2 repolished.
None of that really explains or excuses the prison class ass-raping he gave Angus though.
I don't think the two are connected. Someone seems to have made a connection and I'm not sure it's pertinent. Seems to have just made thing worse. I'm sure this fellow doesn't want all that raked up again, even if it's, peculiarly, in his favour. I'd rather hear some actual facts now.
Maybe Pundit will think otherwise, but i think this has gone to places that aren't really in the remit of an RPG board.
I'm gonna close this (although Pundit may be fully within his rights to re-open it).
Edit: I should have said this last night. Feel free to open another thread on the topic, but let's keep discussion of the minutia of personal tragedy out of it.
I've also had a complaint about my closing the thread. So, if you want to take it further, just PM Pundy and i'll go sailing into the sunset.
Quote from: HDIAndrew;538391Hey all, this is Andrew Greenberg over at Holistic Design. I have been getting a lot of questions from folks over the recent changes at Redbrick. I'm really sorry to see this all happening. I consider everyone involved in this matter friends of ours, and we have enjoyed working with all of them.
Bill Bridges and I were not consulted over this, nor did we need to be. Redbrick's contractual obligation is to create quality FS releases, not to do it with any particular people. We anticipate that Redbrick will do a good job with the FS line, and we look forward to reviewing the work in which their dev team is now engaged.
Sorry for the PR speak, but we can't tell Redbrick with whom it should work. It's their choice, and as long as they send us good new products, it's in the contract that we approve them (approval not to be unreasonably denied, and all that). Right now we are looking forward to a new draft of FS3 to review and comment upon. Here is Redbrick's post on the matter: http://redbrickllc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=499
Thanks for coming here to share this!
RPGPundit
EDIT TO ADD: The topic itself is not in forbidden, if someone wants to they can start a new thread on this topic.