Quote from: Ian AbsentiaLook, I don't like the concept behind Heroes.  I think it's a stupid show that's totally unappealing to me.  But, you know, I've never actually watched the show, so as much as I've read about it I know that my opinion doesn't really amount to much.  So, I keep my mouth shut and let other people enjoy it.

!i!

The difference there is that Heroes does not misrepresent any existing license that you are a fan of.  I agree that you should shut the fuck up about something like that, other then perhaps the odd quip, because its no big deal.

I mean, for example, let's say I don't like Journeyman. Fine, I can say I don't like it and all, its a free country, but there's little point to doing more than leaving it there.

On the other hand, let's say that the producers of Journeyman had used the exact same storyline they had right now, but had called the series Doctor Who. There I, and all other Doctor Who fans, would have a pretty clear and evident fucking right to bitch about it till the fucking end of time!

That's the case here; if they didn't want fans of the REAL Galactica to be mad and say so, they shouldn't have fucking called it BSG!

RPGPundit

I wish I could figure out how to turn internet arguments into energy.

Of course that if I did, I couldn't tell anyone.  I'd just have to keep my secret to myself, there in my giant house built out of gold ingots.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I wish I could figure out how to turn internet arguments into energy.

Of course that if I did, I couldn't tell anyone.  I'd just have to keep my secret to myself, there in my giant house built out of gold ingots.

So THAT'S the reason why you never invite me over for popcorn and mormon conversion!

I KNEW something was up!

-clash

The original question was which game system , I still say either SAVAGE WORLDS or GURPS for either version of Galactica.

Oh and I came to the conclusion over 7 months ago that current modern Galactica out TREKs the modern Star Trek in one certain area - getting people to argue about topical issues or at least think about them.

 This all reminds of a classic Bajoran argument/debate some fans had from the first season of DEEP DISH NINE.


- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPunditThe difference there is that Heroes does not misrepresent any existing license that you are a fan of.

Oh, so you're concerned about the license?  The IP?  Okay, I have to cut you a little slack there.  If you're hoping that, like Richard Hatch was, someone will eventually be able to re-create the original series, then this divergent take on the story is bound to be a disappointment.  I'll give you that and a sympathetic slap on the shoulder.   But, c'est la vie, c'est la guerre. Sympathy aside, after the first couple of episodes, the new BSG was pretty much its own animal, with only names in common.

!i!

(*Though the appearance of Michelle Forbes as Admiral Cain went back to the original source material, in a really good way.)

Quote from: RPGPunditNo, you don't get it. If it had been the same Starbuck with a different actor, that would have been acceptable. I'd have questioned the need given that Benedict is still around and healthy and all, but let's say they wanted to retell the original story, and not do a sequel, and Benedict would be too old, ok, fine.

If the CHARACTER of Starbuck was the same, but with a different actor, that'd be fine. But to take a character that has nothing to do with the original character (other than the Cigars, apparently) and then add the name Starbuck to it (and not even as the actual name, or even a nickname, but a callsign), is nothing more than intentionally murdering a character. Which is what these guys sought out to do in almost everything they did, to butcher the original series and make it into its sick opposite.

Dude. Watch the show. With respect, you've got no idea what you're talking about, and I'm kind of embarassed for you.

Quote from: KoltarThe original question was which game system...

Oh, right, right...

I'm throwing my hat in with Sett on using the Mechwarrior RPG to do the general role modeling for either the old or new BSG, but tacking on the essentially system-independent Madness Meter as used in Nemesis for the new series.  I think the challenge of moral and psychic decay is essential for modeling the new BSG, perhaps moreso than the dogfighting rules.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOh, so you're concerned about the license?  The IP?  Okay, I have to cut you a little slack there.  If you're hoping that, like Richard Hatch was, someone will eventually be able to re-create the original series, then this divergent take on the story is bound to be a disappointment.  I'll give you that and a sympathetic slap on the shoulder.   But, c'est la vie, c'est la guerre. Sympathy aside, after the first couple of episodes, the new BSG was pretty much its own animal, with only names in common.

!i!

(*Though the appearance of Michelle Forbes as Admiral Cain went back to the original source material, in a really good way.)

The good news is that the last season is coming up, and the supposed prequel series they were going to do has been tanked, and they don't have rights to do the movies.
So from here, the only new BSG material that could arise would be something different, since the only people left with the legal ability to produce something new are the ones who were pushing for a sequel series to the Real BSG, who got stabbed in the back.

With a bit of luck, we won't EVER see any new material from this so-called BSG again.

I know that might sound petty toward fans of this mockery, but hey, c'est la guerre as you said.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThat could only possibly be true if everything I've read about the new series was lying.

Let's just borrow from Wikipedia, shall we?

Point I: "it rejects the traditional televised science fiction styles of Star Trek (after which the original Battlestar Galactica series was conceived) in favor of what executive producer Ronald D. Moore calls "naturalistic science fiction""

And what I would call bullshit fake edginess.

Point II: "shedding the light-hearted action/adventure style of the original show"

So instead of a series about adventure and survival we get a story about "edgy character drama".

Point III: "show's heroes as being part of a "flawed" humanity", "many characters struggle with deep personal flaws; for example, Adama and his son have a profoundly dysfunctional relationship while Colonel Tigh is an alcoholic"

Are you claiming these things aren't true?! I mean holy shit, I hadn't seen this until now but I pretty well fucking called it, didn't I?

Point IV: "an exploration of moral and ethical issues brought up by the War on Terrorism. The show has dealt with Cylon and human suicide bombers, the torture of prisoners, and a struggle motivated by intense religious differences."

So instead of the Cylons being the force out to wipe out humanity and the humans being, well, humanity with all the good and noble that is implied in the term we end up with them and us being equally evil, the Cylons aren't really so bad, and everyone is wrong. Doesn't that pretty much sum it up?

I mean come on, motherfuckers, you guys want to pretend that its the same show, then answer me this: Are the Cylons absolutely evil?

Point V: "differences in casting in terms of ethnicity and gender, most notably the character of Starbuck"

They ruined Starbuck, the best character of the original series, and one of the list of best sci-fi characters ever. That by itself would be justification enough to never see a single episode of this series.

Point VI: "the Twelve Colonies now closely resembling contemporary 21st century Western culture, with names and costumes often indistinguishable from other television shows"

So gone is all the interesting cultural elements, the mythology created behind the series, all of that is wiped out so instead we get "The O.C.... in Spaaaaace".
Fucking hurrah.

Point VII:" Time described Battlestar Galactica as "a ripping sci-fi allegory of the war on terror", lots of other references to news stories pointing out how trendy the new series is for making a bunch of references to how bad Iraq is, blah blah blah

What the fuck is this?! Its pathetic! Its cheap sensationalism and making stupid references to current events in a way that will almost certainly mean that 20 years from now this so-called "galactica" will mean fuck all to the average person.

And don't try to fucking claim that this is just the media's take on it! Ron Moore himself has apparently said that "the Cylons have aspects of Al Qaeda, the Catholic Church, and America" (apparently everything the typical hollywood producer thinks of as bad, probably in ascending order of magnitude).

So please, quit trying to claim that just because I refuse to watch the series that it somehow does honour to the original.

RPGPundit

I didn't say it was the same show, I said it was a different show that used the same title.  I didn't say it does honour to the original, it has fuck all to do with the original.

I did say your comments on the show betray an ignorance of it and I stand by that.  Your Adama comments were flatly wrong.

Otherwise, it's not a remake dude.  Your arguments say it's a bad remake, but it's not a remake, or not in that sense anyway.

It's comparable to Dawn of the Dead, the new version recently has nothing in common essentially with the original.  Different zombies, different survivors, different plot.  It just springboarded from the concept, zombie apocalypse, survivors hole up in a mall.  This is the same.  

You're criticising stuff you haven't seen and you're doing so in detail, it doesn't work.

Actually, the character of Starbuck is one of the closest to the original.  All they did pretty much was change the gender, but interestingly people who thought original Starbuck a bit of a lady's man thought the new one a slut.

Which says more about the viewers than what is a very well portrayed character in the show (so far, I'm on season two and I understand the series loses its way after that).

And the original was a pile of shit lacking all narrative logic, frankly I wouldn't have named my show after it for fear of putting people off.

Quote from: RPGPunditThe good news is that the last season is coming up, and the supposed prequel series they were going to do has been tanked...

This is good news, actually.  Even as someone who enjoyed the new BSG, it was running out of steam and winding itself out by the end of Season 2 and left me with little desire to watch Season 3.

QuoteSo from here, the only new BSG material that could arise would be something different, since the only people left with the legal ability to produce something new are the ones who were pushing for a sequel series to the Real BSG, who got stabbed in the back.

With a bit of luck, we won't EVER see any new material from this so-called BSG again.

This is that little "Pundit" act you put on to provoke outrage, right?  Hey, go fuck yourself. :haw:

!i!

Quote from: RPGPunditI mean come on, motherfuckers, you guys want to pretend that its the same show, then answer me this: Are the Cylons absolutely evil?

Except that no-one is making that claim.  Shit, even the producers of the show refuse to use the term "remake" or "sequel".  It's like getting pissed at the Coen brothers for making O Brother Where Art Thou? based on The Odyssey, or getting annoyed because 10 Things I Hate About You is based on The Taming of the Shrew.

As a former comic book reader, I tend to look at the new BSG as being something akin to DCs "Elseworlds" line (or "What if?", from Marvel).  Elseworlds is an alternative take on an established franchise... designed to be judged on it's own merits, not based on how well it re-creates the original material.  If an Elseworlds book is well written and illustrated, then I'll enjoy it.  Regardless of how much it deviates from the source material.

BSG = Grey´s Anatomy
for nerds.

Both shows are awful for the same reasons. If you can´t see the reasons, chances are high you don´t have refined tastes.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I wish I could figure out how to turn internet arguments into energy.

Of course that if I did, I couldn't tell anyone.  I'd just have to keep my secret to myself, there in my giant house built out of gold ingots.

Very Jack Handy-ish. (That's a compliment.)

On the drifted topic of this thread, I was on the cusp of teenagerhood when the original show came out, and it was tolerable for a while, then got really bad. The thing about it though was that (perhaps with the assistance of rose-tinted glasses), the broad arc of concept and plot was cool, even if the script, dialog, direction, and acting were par for the course in bad 70's TV. (I feel the same way about the Six Million Dollar Man show.)

As for the new show, I smell geek-opera, I shy away.

Though I'm one to talk: I think the best iteration of aircraft carriers in space is a spottily-animated Japanese cartoon from 1982.

Star Blazers!